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Lying about TT on CV

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Lying about TT on CV

Old 3rd Jul 2009, 11:43
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Lying about TT on CV

This is my 1st post but have been following threads for some time now.

quick question for the experienced pilots out there. Not a moral question but in my time I have met a lot of young pilots beefing up their TT on CVs, this I can understand as they feel it may make themselves more attractive to a potential employer.

My question is would it be wrong to thin out and reduce your TT on a CV?

I have had many conversations with varied responses from very experienced pilots as to the attitudes of CPs and Ops managers in larger companies who disregard applicants who may have too much TT especially when looking for entry level, for their own reasoning of maybe old dogs new tricks etc.

Anybody have any experience on this or input?

mach
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Old 3rd Jul 2009, 11:54
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Alot of Chief pilots can tell how much experience you have by flying with you.

If you are looking for a specific job and you think that you may be over qualified ring the bloke up and tell them why you are looking for a job that may be below you're experience level. (location, type of job,whatever) No drama there.
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Old 3rd Jul 2009, 11:55
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I would suggest that having false information on your CV is a bad idea. This could be with regard to education, TT or anything else. If you were checked (eg via logbooks) and found to be wanting then I suggest that your employment period may be short.
By all means apply for jobs that you may technically be over or under qualified for and let the employer make the decision based on other factors. There is nothing misleading in that.
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Old 3rd Jul 2009, 12:05
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Falseinformation on CV is a reason for dismissal when it comes to light. How secure is your job?
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Old 3rd Jul 2009, 12:14
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I can understand how an employer would dismiss someone for claiming to have more time than they have but I cant see the argument for dismissing someone who maybe had type error on cv that showed less time.

surely if a company would accept a pilot with say 500 hours, they would find it hard to sack him when it transpired it was actually 5000 hours. ooops, not good at typing?

am I on right track with what post is trying to get across?

nb
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Old 3rd Jul 2009, 12:30
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Not necessarily plus it depends what's in the employment contract.

During the last recession (1990s) when I was a young, impecunious, fresh-faced and newly qualified accountant, I lied about my qualification. No-one wanted to recruit Chartered Accountants and I needed to pay for a roof over my head. My newly-acquired Lettuce after my name were omitted and I just became someone who'd work in accounts.

I'd have like to have seen a Court's reaction if I brought a case of unfair dismissal for being dismissed for being over-qualified

However, in the OP's case, a log book is a legal document and your employer would have the right to check it. But, if it's just a matter of getting a foot in the door and your typing skills are rubbish, you could give it a shot but come clean later

Cheers

Whirls
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Old 3rd Jul 2009, 12:40
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Lying on a CV in order to get a job can be prosecuted under the Fraud Act (obtaining money by deception).

If when asked to your face "Bloggs, how many hours do you have?" you answered "over 500, Captain PPRuNe" that would be different to "500 hours, Captain PPRuNe".

So, on your CV/letter, put "over 500 hours". I can't see a lawyer getting past that.
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Old 3rd Jul 2009, 12:43
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Such an error of 500 hours instead of 5000 hours would be very obvious when viewing it together with types flown, length of time flying, places flown, previous employers etc. It would all come out at the interview, long before the letter of offer.

Falsifying a logbook is cause for instant dismissal and then the 'word' gets around the industry, not to mention the interest of the aviation authority that issued the licence and that may lead to prosecution and the removal of a licence.
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Old 3rd Jul 2009, 12:45
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Speaking as an employer, UK, UK employment law in mind here; if I want to get rid of someone and can show that they made false statement on application then I have cause for dismissal.

(Ommission is not the same - so if you don't put any TT details and employer doesn't ask then ho harm, no foul. Understating TT is not omission it is the commission of a knowingly incorrect fact; an act specifically undertaken to increase your chance of getting the job.)

I also wonder - if the employee wanted to push the point and I wanted to get nasty- how they would answer the accusation of "gaining pecuniary advantage from the dissemination of false information" - which is a criminal law "theft" charge used frequently to deal with falsification on mortgage applications, etc.

Needs must, we all have to eat / pay rent. I don't urge you to do or not do (it is your life, your choice) but be aware that false information on application puts all the aces in the employer's hands. They may love you / ignore the CV but if they want to get rid of you then you just gave them the route.
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Old 3rd Jul 2009, 13:13
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John, sounds like a sledge hammer to crack a nut there!

If, in the first year of employment, you want to get rid of someone from your employment, you just do it; the "grounds" being "failure to meet company standards". That's all.

After 1 year, it becomes a lot more tricky to dismiss an employee and dismissing someone on the grounds of falsifying a CV after they've already been with you for a year ....?

However, beware the OBN (Old Boys' Network). If a prospective job candidate's CV crosses my desk and I know one of that person's former employers (as disclosed on said CV), I'm straight on the phone to ask what they were like etc.

Cheers

Whirls
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Old 3rd Jul 2009, 13:22
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Always put your true hours down, nothing Machiavellian about that.

It is a very small industry and one phone-con to one of your referrees will see the long and short of your claims in short order.

It is true that nearly any experienced CP or check pilot can see the experience of anyone in just a short flight, even to auto suggesting who the person was that taught him, if he is a newbie of sorts.

I ususally take the view that if i have to, 'let someone go', that it was i who made the wrong decision in the first place, and find that difficult to live with for a while. Unless of course the dude really brings himself undone.

I must add a funny story that goes the rounds many anzac days. goes like this, circa 1914.
Recruitment officer to keen recruit. 'so you want to join the light horse do y' son?'.
"Yes sir."
'What experience do you have with horses son?'
"worked on a station for a few years sir"
Box ticked.
Later the young feller was heard recounting to his mate, "silly old coot didna' ask what sort of a station else I'd a had to say it was only a railway station"

Last edited by topendtorque; 3rd Jul 2009 at 13:34.
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Old 3rd Jul 2009, 13:52
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Again, slightly off topic, but you have to understand that UK laws make it very difficult to give any sort of negative reference.....hence the rumoured.....

"He has a thorough understanding of the subject and approaches work cautiously, with a meticulous and methodical approach.
If you can get him to work for you, you will be lucky"

-or they could have risked a tribunal with " lazy bugger"
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Old 3rd Jul 2009, 14:46
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Hi there,

This industry is very small and the word goes around.. At a certain level everybody knows each other. A good thing to keep in mind is what a friend of mine told me once when I started at a new company; "You are can do mistakes here, but don't lie about it! Then you are screwed here !"

Fly safe and keep trying !
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Old 3rd Jul 2009, 15:20
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Whirly
If, in the first year of employment, you want to get rid of someone from your employment, you just do it; the "grounds" being "failure to meet company standards".
Not necessarily true - In aviation you have to pass LPC/OPC and then line train and pass a line check. If the pilot concerned has already passed the company line check, it could be difficult to get rid of them on the "failure to meet company standards".

However come the next base check...........
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Old 3rd Jul 2009, 15:36
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its a very small industry and what hapens when you get your job by understatng t/t , and then you get the offer of that dream job by another company and they ring your last company for a reference and ask whats your total time and they find out its increased by 5k hours you will then be known as someone who invents hour parker style

not very good for you then and the word will spread to other employers
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Old 3rd Jul 2009, 16:13
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"Failure to meet company standards" covers a multitude of sins in any profession

Cheers

Whirls
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Old 3rd Jul 2009, 17:06
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From my experience the number of hours is not really as important as what types of experience you have.

I would rather have a guy that has 500 hours TT with some turbine time from the real world than 1500 hours in an R22 around the pattern, I would be looking for types of aircraft flown and what kinds of work he's done more than how many hours he has.

Of course I would have to fly with both of them and see how they do, as there are always 500 hours pilots that can do better than some 5000 hour pilots, flight time is not everything.
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Old 3rd Jul 2009, 19:48
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Whirlygig

Sledgehammer, nut... Known as the law. I didn't write it, but I know how it works.

under 1 yr - no problem dismissing.
Over 1 yr - discover the lies on CV - again no problem dismissing for the "lie".
Discover the lies on CV and continue employment for some time - then you can't use the "lie" on the application as a reason for dismissal.
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Old 3rd Jul 2009, 20:55
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Irrespective of the legalities of the issue, if I discovered someone had been telling a lie like that, I would find it difficult to trust them at all.
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Old 4th Jul 2009, 21:33
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Its all about honesty and integrity.

You canít be a selective liar in aviation.

Lie once in aviation and you have identified a character flaw that hopefully will be your downfall.
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