Another Attack On A Police Helicopter
NW
I think you are missing the point I am not attacking the personnel but the system that allows MY MONEY& YOURS to be wasted!!.
It is a scary thought that with all the warnings of terrorism, that the security at one of the largest airports in the UK is so poor, or is the terrorism a smoke screen for other bean counters to try and prise money from the Government (thought I would throw in a conspiracy theory thing just for fun).
The Sentuarys we hired years ago did not go off with either rabbits or foxes, of which there were plenty we used them in a field in a rural aria, & had them set to alert us not flash lights or beep they broadcast on our radio system a voice alert, we did arive once to find a intruder on site just a nosy rambler, but it did work only one false a deer 4Ft high at the shoulder.
We as a Co. do not sell any security devices, (Other than 2 way radios) but if you are serious about purchase will look into the supply of same, would think 4\5 would give you some cover, and us a profit
I think you are missing the point I am not attacking the personnel but the system that allows MY MONEY& YOURS to be wasted!!.
It is a scary thought that with all the warnings of terrorism, that the security at one of the largest airports in the UK is so poor, or is the terrorism a smoke screen for other bean counters to try and prise money from the Government (thought I would throw in a conspiracy theory thing just for fun).
The Sentuarys we hired years ago did not go off with either rabbits or foxes, of which there were plenty we used them in a field in a rural aria, & had them set to alert us not flash lights or beep they broadcast on our radio system a voice alert, we did arive once to find a intruder on site just a nosy rambler, but it did work only one false a deer 4Ft high at the shoulder.
We as a Co. do not sell any security devices, (Other than 2 way radios) but if you are serious about purchase will look into the supply of same, would think 4\5 would give you some cover, and us a profit
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Brassed Off
A PCSO in the West Midlands is on £18k and we all know what a lot of people think about PCSOs.
https://www.west-midlands.police.uk/...cso_powers.asp
Do you honestly expect us to believe that the tax paying residents of the West Midlands are going to be happy paying the same sort of money for someone, and his two or three colleagues, just sit in a hut watching a helicopter, within the boundries of an International Airport which already has 'civilian' and armed police security etc etc!
Not only are you having a giraffe....you are having the whole safari park!
They (helicopters) cost millions yet a security guard costs round £10-15,000 a year and most would welcome the chance to sit airside "guarding" the Poli$e helicopter.
https://www.west-midlands.police.uk/...cso_powers.asp
Do you honestly expect us to believe that the tax paying residents of the West Midlands are going to be happy paying the same sort of money for someone, and his two or three colleagues, just sit in a hut watching a helicopter, within the boundries of an International Airport which already has 'civilian' and armed police security etc etc!
Not only are you having a giraffe....you are having the whole safari park!
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
And just what exactly do you expect this security guard to do, when suddenly in the small dark hours, he/she is faced with a (probably) armed raider with a firebomb, sitting astride his getaway bike?
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Aircraft Security?
Forgive my ignorance as I live in the colonies but is the budget that stretched that a key Police asset needs to be left outside in between jobs / overnight?
I haven't lived in the UK for about 15 years, but has it got so bad that the toe rags are now torching / vandalising multi million pound assets at will?
Whoever is responsible for the security of this machine has obviously failed miserably. If anyone wants to argue the point then just look at the pictures.
Why can't these machines be inside under 24 hr scrutiny?
I haven't lived in the UK for about 15 years, but has it got so bad that the toe rags are now torching / vandalising multi million pound assets at will?
Whoever is responsible for the security of this machine has obviously failed miserably. If anyone wants to argue the point then just look at the pictures.
Why can't these machines be inside under 24 hr scrutiny?
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Sadly there is no hangar for that helicopter, I do think that this incident will be a lessons to be learned as all such incidents are. There are many reasons why the hangar which is planned never got put in place in time, but as far as I am aware all AOU's who have a hangar do not put it away during working hours unless its broke or the wx is bad. I think that will be reviewed. However if someone is intent on such acts they would still find a way...
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Defending Myself
It is remarkable how the Plod immediatley think that they can have done NO WRONG!!!
Stop flippin whinging and get the helicopters properly secured in a hangar on a trolley.
As for it adding 2 complete minutes to launch. (Bollocks). If the hangar is in the right place, the trolley is suitable, the plod drive it out whilst the spotty pilot does the pre-start, all climb in, fire up the coal burners and OFF to catch scrotes.
When you get back, land on trolley, shut down, wheel helicopter back to bed, in the office for tea and medals.
I COULD DRAW A PICTURE OF ALL OF THIS IF IT WOULD HELP.
And if you think this is unworkable, you better tell WYPA, NAAS, NEASU as they have been doing it like that for years (granted normally when the WX makes them keep it indoors).
Anyway, I hear these days that most ASU flights are launched looking for confused Grannies in their nightdress....or is that a gross exageration.
In my day we chased cars all night till about 3 a.m. then spent the rest of the night drinking champagne, eating lobster in the arms of some beautiful Blonde.........Ahh the mammories!!!!
Oh and the scrotes we were chasing were a better class too. They would not have dreamed of burning our charriot. they would simply say "Its a fair Cop Guv"..."Got me bang to rights"..............even the hardened ones would at least do the honourable thing like crash and explode in flames shouting "You will never take me alive Copper".
Yes the old days really were better!!!
(Maybe a confused Granny did it)!!!!!
Stop flippin whinging and get the helicopters properly secured in a hangar on a trolley.
As for it adding 2 complete minutes to launch. (Bollocks). If the hangar is in the right place, the trolley is suitable, the plod drive it out whilst the spotty pilot does the pre-start, all climb in, fire up the coal burners and OFF to catch scrotes.
When you get back, land on trolley, shut down, wheel helicopter back to bed, in the office for tea and medals.
I COULD DRAW A PICTURE OF ALL OF THIS IF IT WOULD HELP.
And if you think this is unworkable, you better tell WYPA, NAAS, NEASU as they have been doing it like that for years (granted normally when the WX makes them keep it indoors).
Anyway, I hear these days that most ASU flights are launched looking for confused Grannies in their nightdress....or is that a gross exageration.
In my day we chased cars all night till about 3 a.m. then spent the rest of the night drinking champagne, eating lobster in the arms of some beautiful Blonde.........Ahh the mammories!!!!
Oh and the scrotes we were chasing were a better class too. They would not have dreamed of burning our charriot. they would simply say "Its a fair Cop Guv"..."Got me bang to rights"..............even the hardened ones would at least do the honourable thing like crash and explode in flames shouting "You will never take me alive Copper".
Yes the old days really were better!!!
(Maybe a confused Granny did it)!!!!!
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VOLRIDER, I passed my sell by date some time back. The piece WAS MEANT TO BE LIGHT-HEARTED.
At least in my day all the PLOD I worked with (for) had a sense of humour!!
At least in my day all the PLOD I worked with (for) had a sense of humour!!
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Of interest, if a Sentry unit had been used here, all that would have happened was that the crew would have got out a couple of minutes earlier to watch the fire!! Sentry is not like the Terminator movies, with laser cannons!!
Again, have you lot not grasped...... THERE WAS NO HANGAR TO USE..........
I repeat, if you are based at an International Airport, you pay for your security from the airport authority. At a guess, that would be civilian security, I may be wrong.
The three minutes that you say 'would not impact on operations'. WRONG WRONG WRONG. The average pursuit is very short, SECONDS make a difference, that is why the aircraft sits semi-primed to go, It saves seconds. The number of times we are 30 seconds late for a job frustrates me, I wish there was a way of getting airborne faster.
Because of this incident, we now hangar our heli after every job, that my friends, is a large step backwards. But because of the embarrassment factor, the bosses dare not lose another airframe. Thats two-nil to the criminals.
Again, have you lot not grasped...... THERE WAS NO HANGAR TO USE..........
I repeat, if you are based at an International Airport, you pay for your security from the airport authority. At a guess, that would be civilian security, I may be wrong.
The three minutes that you say 'would not impact on operations'. WRONG WRONG WRONG. The average pursuit is very short, SECONDS make a difference, that is why the aircraft sits semi-primed to go, It saves seconds. The number of times we are 30 seconds late for a job frustrates me, I wish there was a way of getting airborne faster.
Because of this incident, we now hangar our heli after every job, that my friends, is a large step backwards. But because of the embarrassment factor, the bosses dare not lose another airframe. Thats two-nil to the criminals.
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Spot on, Jayteeto.
Double Boogie, sense of humour is the first requirement of being a plod, however reading your last post I failed to see humour or it was very well disguised, maybe thats why I never went for C.I.D
Double Boogie, sense of humour is the first requirement of being a plod, however reading your last post I failed to see humour or it was very well disguised, maybe thats why I never went for C.I.D
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There are many ways to skin a cat (or skinhead). At some ASUs we would routinley pre-position the machnie and crew to an HLS close to where the action might be, spend a few hours loitering and waiting for a job. Crew sat in and gaurding the helicopter.
Its not what happens that defines us, it is what we do about it. Evolve and survive. Find another way.
My memory is fading but I am sure that the WM Helicopter was firebombed, or attacked (unsuccessfully as I recall) in some other way back in the early 90s. Anyone remember this incident??
I also recall arriving at WM security post to start duty dressed in my Police flight suit, brandishing a security pass from another BAA airport and with my license to be told I could not enter without an escort. Whilst waiting for said escort a civilian FW pilot arrived (middle eastern gentleman) who was granted immediete unescorted access on the strength of his flight crew license. When I proffered my license as method of entry I was politley told that as I was not departing the airport (just operating on it) it was not acceptable.
I do take the point that at WM no suitable hangar is avaiable, but surely now this has to be re-addressed with a view to locating the machine properly with the necessary protection it clearly needs.
I feel sorry for the crew that night as they have fallen victim to a system that does not take the horse seriously until it has finally bolted!!
This attack will no doubt change the face of UK Police aviation and will need some real thinkers to maintain the operational readiness at the level required to be effective. You are right, the scrotes are leading 1 nil at the moment.
Its not what happens that defines us, it is what we do about it. Evolve and survive. Find another way.
My memory is fading but I am sure that the WM Helicopter was firebombed, or attacked (unsuccessfully as I recall) in some other way back in the early 90s. Anyone remember this incident??
I also recall arriving at WM security post to start duty dressed in my Police flight suit, brandishing a security pass from another BAA airport and with my license to be told I could not enter without an escort. Whilst waiting for said escort a civilian FW pilot arrived (middle eastern gentleman) who was granted immediete unescorted access on the strength of his flight crew license. When I proffered my license as method of entry I was politley told that as I was not departing the airport (just operating on it) it was not acceptable.
I do take the point that at WM no suitable hangar is avaiable, but surely now this has to be re-addressed with a view to locating the machine properly with the necessary protection it clearly needs.
I feel sorry for the crew that night as they have fallen victim to a system that does not take the horse seriously until it has finally bolted!!
This attack will no doubt change the face of UK Police aviation and will need some real thinkers to maintain the operational readiness at the level required to be effective. You are right, the scrotes are leading 1 nil at the moment.
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I don't want to get involved with the secruity argument, just to say hello to my mate who has been working out of there for the last year.
Seem's safer now where I am training weapons of mass destruction in the sand for Osama. There's always back to coventry......
Seem's safer now where I am training weapons of mass destruction in the sand for Osama. There's always back to coventry......
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VOLRIDER,
How can you "FAIL" to see humour in the following;
Anyway, I hear these days that most ASU flights are launched looking for confused Grannies in their nightdress....or is that a gross exageration.
In my day we chased cars all night till about 3 a.m. then spent the rest of the night drinking champagne, eating lobster in the arms of some beautiful Blonde.........Ahh the mammories!!!!
Oh and the scrotes we were chasing were a better class too. They would not have dreamed of burning our charriot. they would simply say "Its a fair Cop Guv"..."Got me bang to rights"..............even the hardened ones would at least do the honourable thing like crash and explode in flames shouting "You will never take me alive Copper".
Yes the old days really were better!!!
(Maybe a confused Granny did it)!!!!!
OR DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THE "OLD" DAYS WERE LIKE THAT!!!
How can you "FAIL" to see humour in the following;
Anyway, I hear these days that most ASU flights are launched looking for confused Grannies in their nightdress....or is that a gross exageration.
In my day we chased cars all night till about 3 a.m. then spent the rest of the night drinking champagne, eating lobster in the arms of some beautiful Blonde.........Ahh the mammories!!!!
Oh and the scrotes we were chasing were a better class too. They would not have dreamed of burning our charriot. they would simply say "Its a fair Cop Guv"..."Got me bang to rights"..............even the hardened ones would at least do the honourable thing like crash and explode in flames shouting "You will never take me alive Copper".
Yes the old days really were better!!!
(Maybe a confused Granny did it)!!!!!
OR DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THE "OLD" DAYS WERE LIKE THAT!!!
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Doble B, I read your previous post with interest and agree regarding the lack of security when entering BHX, I have seen numerous times folk entering the building without passes etc, they surprisingly get quite narked when I challenge them!
Re sense of humour okay point taken I did not read it that way initially
How long is it since you worked there btw?
Re sense of humour okay point taken I did not read it that way initially
How long is it since you worked there btw?
2XSnot,
I can sympathise with Vol - I gave up the will to read that post of yours long before I got to the "humorous" (your description...
) part.
WM Pol don't need to move to a helipad "close to the action" - a significant number of shouts take place so close to the airport that - when I had the privilege to fly Molly for them a few years ago - we were overhead the scene yet still waiting for the TI system to cool down to operating temp. Unlike your exposure to the police world, WM Pol are also one of the units that don't put the aircraft to bed at 3am 'cos they're online 24 hours per day. Are you seriously suggesting that the crew therefore sit in the cockpit/cabin for the entire duration of their 12-hour shift to "guard their asset close to the scene"?
I think tbc has the measure of the thread just about right - there's a novelty, eh?
I can sympathise with Vol - I gave up the will to read that post of yours long before I got to the "humorous" (your description...
) part.WM Pol don't need to move to a helipad "close to the action" - a significant number of shouts take place so close to the airport that - when I had the privilege to fly Molly for them a few years ago - we were overhead the scene yet still waiting for the TI system to cool down to operating temp. Unlike your exposure to the police world, WM Pol are also one of the units that don't put the aircraft to bed at 3am 'cos they're online 24 hours per day. Are you seriously suggesting that the crew therefore sit in the cockpit/cabin for the entire duration of their 12-hour shift to "guard their asset close to the scene"?
I think tbc has the measure of the thread just about right - there's a novelty, eh?
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Hi Thud & Blunder, I would not suggest that the police guard the helicopter. Just that the public who pay for it must realise that the units must be "Properly" provided for with a sensible location and a secure place, however that is acheived.
I was probably a bit off the mark with my comments earlier. I apologise to all concerned. I am a bit of a dinosaur as far as Plod Aviation is concerned. When I started out (At Essex ASU) we did not even have a FLIR. Still caught lots of scrotes all the same.
Like all aspects of "new" aviation uses, they start out on a bit of a shoestring and if left unchecked not a lot improves over the course of time. I think Police Aviation has more than proved its value to the general public and for some of the ASUs its time to make the arrangements more permanent and appropriate to the type of tasks the machnie is used for.
Cargate Base is a shining example of what can be achieved when the Police Authority set out to make proper provisions. NEASU at EGNT is another good example of setting out the unit properly so the poor old crews who work the unit can concetrate on what they should be doing.
I vividly remeber my first shift at EGNT, in high winds, moving the machine back to the Belman hangar on a makeshift trolley with the helicopter tied on with a bit of old hemp rope. Turning off the runway being towed by the landie and the damn helicopter tried to "Fall" off the trolley necessitating the entire Airport firecrew to come and help us "Lift" poor old PASF back onto the trolley. Mercifully they have a nice hangar and state of the art trolley to redcue the risks of these things happening.
Things can, and should be better. Not a lot has changed at WM (apart form the helicopter) that gives any impression of "Permanance" to the arangements.
Keep up the good work and I hope the powers that be get a wake up call and give you all the resources and provisions that the job needs.
(I like the "2 Snots" handle, might use that a bit more in casual conversation)
DB
I was probably a bit off the mark with my comments earlier. I apologise to all concerned. I am a bit of a dinosaur as far as Plod Aviation is concerned. When I started out (At Essex ASU) we did not even have a FLIR. Still caught lots of scrotes all the same.
Like all aspects of "new" aviation uses, they start out on a bit of a shoestring and if left unchecked not a lot improves over the course of time. I think Police Aviation has more than proved its value to the general public and for some of the ASUs its time to make the arrangements more permanent and appropriate to the type of tasks the machnie is used for.
Cargate Base is a shining example of what can be achieved when the Police Authority set out to make proper provisions. NEASU at EGNT is another good example of setting out the unit properly so the poor old crews who work the unit can concetrate on what they should be doing.
I vividly remeber my first shift at EGNT, in high winds, moving the machine back to the Belman hangar on a makeshift trolley with the helicopter tied on with a bit of old hemp rope. Turning off the runway being towed by the landie and the damn helicopter tried to "Fall" off the trolley necessitating the entire Airport firecrew to come and help us "Lift" poor old PASF back onto the trolley. Mercifully they have a nice hangar and state of the art trolley to redcue the risks of these things happening.
Things can, and should be better. Not a lot has changed at WM (apart form the helicopter) that gives any impression of "Permanance" to the arangements.
Keep up the good work and I hope the powers that be get a wake up call and give you all the resources and provisions that the job needs.
(I like the "2 Snots" handle, might use that a bit more in casual conversation)
DB
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VOLRIDER,
I worked at PAS as a "FLOATER" WYORKS, WMIDS, NEASU, SUSSEX, THAMES VALLEY, and a few other ASUs occasionally.
WM would have been around 1993, we had an AS355F2. I got sacked from floating at WM by Mel Mason (Inspector) for speaking to Eurocopter about a strange snag on the Flying Controls of the helicopter.
My naivity discussing the WM Police Helicopter with an outside agency!!!
When the helicopter eventuially went to Staverton for service the boys had to carve away at the pedal stops to get the rigging back to where it should have been. Vindicated but still binned.
It was a good unit and a busy one and at the time the boys were quite in the forefront of the FLIR and Daylight cameras.
I definitley recall a tale of the helicopter being attacked on the pan at the Airport either by attempted firebombing or paintstripper. Cant quite recall all the details and I may be mistaking the actual ASU. Maybe someone can remember.
I eventually settled at Northumbria Air Ambulance for 3 years before coming back to the North Sea to build a bit of a pension.
Still miss the flying though. We had some laughs and spills as we were all really learning how to use all this fancy new kit which seemed to appear almost weekly for us to use, Moving Maps, Flirs, Downlinks. Great Times and and probably the most rewarding part of my dysfunctional flying career.
I started at Essex Police in 1992 at the Old Ford Test track at Boreham. Great unit and a fantastic bunch of guys including the Inspector who was a top bloke. Made some good friends there, Mark Shelley etc.
Yep miss those times.
I worked at PAS as a "FLOATER" WYORKS, WMIDS, NEASU, SUSSEX, THAMES VALLEY, and a few other ASUs occasionally.
WM would have been around 1993, we had an AS355F2. I got sacked from floating at WM by Mel Mason (Inspector) for speaking to Eurocopter about a strange snag on the Flying Controls of the helicopter.
My naivity discussing the WM Police Helicopter with an outside agency!!!
When the helicopter eventuially went to Staverton for service the boys had to carve away at the pedal stops to get the rigging back to where it should have been. Vindicated but still binned.
It was a good unit and a busy one and at the time the boys were quite in the forefront of the FLIR and Daylight cameras.
I definitley recall a tale of the helicopter being attacked on the pan at the Airport either by attempted firebombing or paintstripper. Cant quite recall all the details and I may be mistaking the actual ASU. Maybe someone can remember.
I eventually settled at Northumbria Air Ambulance for 3 years before coming back to the North Sea to build a bit of a pension.
Still miss the flying though. We had some laughs and spills as we were all really learning how to use all this fancy new kit which seemed to appear almost weekly for us to use, Moving Maps, Flirs, Downlinks. Great Times and and probably the most rewarding part of my dysfunctional flying career.
I started at Essex Police in 1992 at the Old Ford Test track at Boreham. Great unit and a fantastic bunch of guys including the Inspector who was a top bloke. Made some good friends there, Mark Shelley etc.
Yep miss those times.