Police Civilianisation of air support
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Coconutty
Pushing the barriers of comedy but this does not answer the question. Is it an option to employ civilians in an air observer role? I think the consensus is that it is an achievable option.
Pushing the barriers of comedy but this does not answer the question. Is it an option to employ civilians in an air observer role? I think the consensus is that it is an achievable option.
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Topic seems to have degenerated a little into troll bashing, so to get things back on track....
It seems that whilst it is POSSIBLE to civilianise the Police Air Observer role, most Units don't, generally because they believe the role should be carried out by a Police Officer.
Looking at Selection Procedures though - in general, how do you select the "right person" ( whether Police or Civillian - but particularly Civillian ) for the job ?
Selection can be a very expensive process, and if someone is selected that subsequently fails the course, doesn't fit in, decides to leave etc, then that could well be money wasted.
It is easy enough to conduct a series of tests aimed at examining such things as Spatial Awareness, Multi-Tasking, Hand-eye co-ordination, Mental Agility, Attention to Detail, Physical Fitness etc, with the addition of written knowledge tests, flight tests and so on, which will all examine the key skills needed to to do the job, but how do you determine someone's CHARACTER and ATTITUDE which are both just as important ?
( Consider one of the recent posters to this topic as an example
)
We've all probably seen examples of those with glowing CV's written by their supervisors who merely want to get rid of them, so how do you actually weed out the applicants that would not fit in with the small "crew" environment ?
You know - the ones that would get your back up after working with them for just a few hours
, who have difficulty accepting their errors and weaknesses to the extent that issues cannot be resolved, and who would not fully embrace the world of CRM 
??
Do any Air Support Units conduct any sort of psychometric testing, or character trait examination prior to being offered the job, other than "asking around" to see if anyone knows them, and can give an honest opinion about them ?
Are such tests actually available to the Police for this purpose ?
I know of at least one such applicant that passed all of his written and practical tests with flying colours, but was the last person any of the existing staff would have wanted to work with.
Fortunately he failed his final interview !
It seems that whilst it is POSSIBLE to civilianise the Police Air Observer role, most Units don't, generally because they believe the role should be carried out by a Police Officer.
Looking at Selection Procedures though - in general, how do you select the "right person" ( whether Police or Civillian - but particularly Civillian ) for the job ?
Selection can be a very expensive process, and if someone is selected that subsequently fails the course, doesn't fit in, decides to leave etc, then that could well be money wasted.
It is easy enough to conduct a series of tests aimed at examining such things as Spatial Awareness, Multi-Tasking, Hand-eye co-ordination, Mental Agility, Attention to Detail, Physical Fitness etc, with the addition of written knowledge tests, flight tests and so on, which will all examine the key skills needed to to do the job, but how do you determine someone's CHARACTER and ATTITUDE which are both just as important ?
( Consider one of the recent posters to this topic as an example
)We've all probably seen examples of those with glowing CV's written by their supervisors who merely want to get rid of them, so how do you actually weed out the applicants that would not fit in with the small "crew" environment ?
You know - the ones that would get your back up after working with them for just a few hours
, who have difficulty accepting their errors and weaknesses to the extent that issues cannot be resolved, and who would not fully embrace the world of CRM ??Do any Air Support Units conduct any sort of psychometric testing, or character trait examination prior to being offered the job, other than "asking around" to see if anyone knows them, and can give an honest opinion about them ?
Are such tests actually available to the Police for this purpose ?
I know of at least one such applicant that passed all of his written and practical tests with flying colours, but was the last person any of the existing staff would have wanted to work with.
Fortunately he failed his final interview !
Civilianisation of police posts is beancounter-driven. There are other aspects of police aviation which probably looked good to the financiers at the time, but showed the ability to turn around and bite yer in the bum just when you least expected it:
article about "speeding cop" (oops - civvy)
I particularly noted the following quote:
"A spokesman for the WCAOU said: "As there are no safety concerns (my italics), we can confirm Mr Kingston has returned to work as a fully operational member of the WCAOU."
You might think it appropriate to comment - I couldn't possibly. I do wonder, though, just how much extra it has cost the council-tax-payers of the area to cover the expense of maintaining police air cover during this whole sorry episode - freelance pilots, selecting and training new observers, refresher-training the convicted dangerous driver...
article about "speeding cop" (oops - civvy)
I particularly noted the following quote:
"A spokesman for the WCAOU said: "As there are no safety concerns (my italics), we can confirm Mr Kingston has returned to work as a fully operational member of the WCAOU."
You might think it appropriate to comment - I couldn't possibly. I do wonder, though, just how much extra it has cost the council-tax-payers of the area to cover the expense of maintaining police air cover during this whole sorry episode - freelance pilots, selecting and training new observers, refresher-training the convicted dangerous driver...
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Thud, the crazy thing is if he had beena Police Officer he would have been sacked and not reinstated, its obvious reading between the lines (and not deeply) that a few observers have issues with this man probably more, but three were brave enough to not want to work with him again. I wonder how many cups of tea the troops make him..........
Yeah, and if you were him would you drink any of them?
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A spokesman for the WCAOU said: "As there are no safety concerns, we can confirm Mr Kingston has returned to work as a fully operational member of the WCAOU
It is a very brave statement for the WCAOU spokesman to have made - he must have confidence that the pilot won't go on to choose a piece of aviation law to ignore in the future
It seems that the 3 observers who have voluntarily transferred off the Unit ( and I bet that doesn't happen very often across the Country ), don't share the same confidence
Sort of goes back to my previous question about checking someone's character before employing them - how exactly do you do that
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I don't see where this is heading. Are you saying that instead of employing civilians as pilots you should be training Police Officers? Then he would have been sacked instead of being reinstated? I know of Police Officers who have been convicted of drink driving who are still fulfilling a role in the Police.As your Federation is keen to highlight at any disciplinary hearings each case must be judged on it's own merit.
This is another red herring.
If you read the news report it outlines the training and checking procedures for observers and instead of returning to normal Police duties a civilian as part of his contract would have his services dispensed with.
This is another red herring.
If you read the news report it outlines the training and checking procedures for observers and instead of returning to normal Police duties a civilian as part of his contract would have his services dispensed with.
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Paarmo is the water in teeside safe to drink?? I think it is muddling your brain power.. you obviously do not read threads before jumping in with both feet and making a complete c0ck of yourself...
Tell you what when a civvie pcso type of role pops up why dont you apply and moan within the police force rather than moan from the outside, who knows you may even get some real insight to life rather than being boring and sad hidden behind your keyboard...the sun shines sometimes, I suggets you get out there and warm those scales up a bit.
By the way PCSO and Police do get on unlike this funny representation.
YouTube - Police Officer vs Community Support Officer - Mitchell & Webb
Tell you what when a civvie pcso type of role pops up why dont you apply and moan within the police force rather than moan from the outside, who knows you may even get some real insight to life rather than being boring and sad hidden behind your keyboard...the sun shines sometimes, I suggets you get out there and warm those scales up a bit.
By the way PCSO and Police do get on unlike this funny representation.
YouTube - Police Officer vs Community Support Officer - Mitchell & Webb
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Volrider
You intimated that if a Police Officer had been convicted of the offence then he would have been sacked. The Pilot was not a Police Officer so the natural progression of that argument is to make all Pilots Police Officers and have the ability to sack them should you personally not agree with their personal life standards.I pointed out that not all Police Officers convicted of serious Road Traffic Offences are sacked.
I then went on to comment about the article in the newspaper which pointed out the training and assessment of air observers and my views still stand.
This is called debate and not a rant as you seem to resort to everytime someone disagrees with your point of view.
If you want to live in a society where everone has the same point of view then I suggest you withdraw from this site and join one which praises you and yours. North Korea would welcome experienced air observers I am sure.
I didn't understand the PCSO comments but perhaps they were put in whilst you were raging and not quite yourself.
As for the sun,all our rooms in here face North so as not to overheat on sunny days as the windows are obviously not designed to be opened.
I then went on to comment about the article in the newspaper which pointed out the training and assessment of air observers and my views still stand.
This is called debate and not a rant as you seem to resort to everytime someone disagrees with your point of view.
If you want to live in a society where everone has the same point of view then I suggest you withdraw from this site and join one which praises you and yours. North Korea would welcome experienced air observers I am sure.
I didn't understand the PCSO comments but perhaps they were put in whilst you were raging and not quite yourself.
As for the sun,all our rooms in here face North so as not to overheat on sunny days as the windows are obviously not designed to be opened.
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Paarmo what industry are you in? It would be interesting to see if you are plod and just peeved as you failed a selection course for the air ops, or are you just generally interested in air support??