PHI Crash in Louisiana Jan 2009 - 8 Dead, 1 Injured
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SAS I'm sorry but you're losing me... The sum of your knowledge of PHI's safety culture is based on the views of one single PHI employee? C'mon now...
And what does the start switch on a 206 have to do with the price of fish in China? PHI had too many instances of blades sailing around all over the place in strong winds offshore and decided to rig the thing so you could have one hand for the throttle and one to fiddle with the cyclic position. That setup still allows for two hands to control the start button and the throttle; the difference is only that one hand isn't on the collective. How is their setup more conducive to burned up engines? Do you need two hands to close the throttle? I don't get it.
If other helicopter types didn't get this mod I'm guessing it's either because their rotor systems were deemed to be less prone to sailing or because their starter/throttle layout allowed for a free hand. I see it as an interesting insight into PHI's thinking as well, but as an (admittedly minor) example of their willingness to tinker with the way things are done out here and find solutions to problems encountered in the field. How can you find fault with that?
When it comes to the exposure suits... you got me. I Totally agree with you that they would be a safety enhancement in winter but to date not a single GOM operator (as far as I know) has issued them. But we do all have an EPIRB in our jacket. Have had them for years. Didn't your friend tell you?
And then there's that old chestnut about the UK system being different from the way things are done in the GOM. Of course it is. The regulatory environment is different, for one. As is the weather. Many of the rigs are much closer to shore here and can safely be serviced by something as simple as a 206. People drive on the other side of the road here, too. About the only thing that's somewhat similar is how IFR medium and heavy ships are operated, and it is exactly in that area that the GOM safety record is about on a par with the UK.
You say your friend has worked for PHI for decades? It couldn't have been that bad, then... He's not still going on about Bob Suggs is he? The man has been Gone and Buried for over a decade now, you know... Okay enough quibbling SAS. You've heard the point from your friend and now your online brethren Rev has provided a counterpoint. The truth can be found somewhere in the middle, as always. Happy sailing my friend...
And what does the start switch on a 206 have to do with the price of fish in China? PHI had too many instances of blades sailing around all over the place in strong winds offshore and decided to rig the thing so you could have one hand for the throttle and one to fiddle with the cyclic position. That setup still allows for two hands to control the start button and the throttle; the difference is only that one hand isn't on the collective. How is their setup more conducive to burned up engines? Do you need two hands to close the throttle? I don't get it.
If other helicopter types didn't get this mod I'm guessing it's either because their rotor systems were deemed to be less prone to sailing or because their starter/throttle layout allowed for a free hand. I see it as an interesting insight into PHI's thinking as well, but as an (admittedly minor) example of their willingness to tinker with the way things are done out here and find solutions to problems encountered in the field. How can you find fault with that?
When it comes to the exposure suits... you got me. I Totally agree with you that they would be a safety enhancement in winter but to date not a single GOM operator (as far as I know) has issued them. But we do all have an EPIRB in our jacket. Have had them for years. Didn't your friend tell you?
And then there's that old chestnut about the UK system being different from the way things are done in the GOM. Of course it is. The regulatory environment is different, for one. As is the weather. Many of the rigs are much closer to shore here and can safely be serviced by something as simple as a 206. People drive on the other side of the road here, too. About the only thing that's somewhat similar is how IFR medium and heavy ships are operated, and it is exactly in that area that the GOM safety record is about on a par with the UK.
You say your friend has worked for PHI for decades? It couldn't have been that bad, then... He's not still going on about Bob Suggs is he? The man has been Gone and Buried for over a decade now, you know... Okay enough quibbling SAS. You've heard the point from your friend and now your online brethren Rev has provided a counterpoint. The truth can be found somewhere in the middle, as always. Happy sailing my friend...
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Tottigol yes I do. You need to get out more.
Come on by and get a education from the first to be certified to use goggles in the GOM
Aviation Specialties Unlimited completes NVG STC Project on Sikorsky S-76C++ for Petroleum Helicopters - Vertical Online
PHI has had goggles for over two years now and we do no "expermenting" with goggles. FAA certified aircraft, equipment,crews.
Here is a recent article and there is More to come.
Industry Leader Sets New Standard with Introduction of Offshore Air Medical Helicopter - Vertical Online
What kind of safety aircraft does your company have on 24/7 standbye from your company?
Come on by and get a education from the first to be certified to use goggles in the GOM
Aviation Specialties Unlimited completes NVG STC Project on Sikorsky S-76C++ for Petroleum Helicopters - Vertical Online
PHI has had goggles for over two years now and we do no "expermenting" with goggles. FAA certified aircraft, equipment,crews.
Here is a recent article and there is More to come.
Industry Leader Sets New Standard with Introduction of Offshore Air Medical Helicopter - Vertical Online
What kind of safety aircraft does your company have on 24/7 standbye from your company?
PHI Inc. is unveiling the first dedicated 24-hour offshore air medical helicopter. The new air medical Sikorsky S-76 C++ is specifically designed to serve the oil and gas industry. Its unique onboard medical capabilities and clinical expertise will bring a new level of care for those working offshore. This service is a joint undertaking between PHI's oil and gas and air medical group, which safely transports 30,000 patients per year in helicopters and airplanes across the country.
Or....is PHI providing this thing as a marketing tool and picking up the tab all by itself?
Rev,
We flew ol' Whack and Clack for about a year, got her painted, cleaned up, installed some new components and doubled our money selling her. We then went on to buy some new aircraft for the operation....two 500E's, a LongRanger, Cessna 208, KingAir, and a Beech Jet. There is money to be made buying and selling aircraft as well as operating them.
I don't reckon you would make the same comment to the RLC guys that are flying ex-Air Log aircraft in the oil patch with you....or would you?
In the Summer the water in the GOM is fairly benign and as you say the rigs are quite close to shore in most cases. As the fields appear further out and some are now over two hundred miles from shore then "exposure times" will begin to be more an issue.
Winter time operations already show the need for exposure gear.
Depending upon the oil companies to make the needed changes will always be a problem in advancing safety no matter if it is the GOM, Nigeria, North Sea, or Australia. Their bean counters can be a very cold hearted bunch.
I mentioned one guy as an example but you know full well my comment was based on contact with far more folks than the one guy.
Again, the perception is the truth not reality but does become reality based upon perception. If a thirty year man felt it necessary to stay off the skyline then there is that perception amongst his peers. Times might be changing but that does not mean the perception is that "silence is golden" being the best policy is not the way business is done.
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SAS methinks you're getting my comments mixed up with rotorbrent's. You'll never hear disparaging remarks from me regarding ex-PHI aircraft. I flew one myself at a previous company.
You're quite right in pointing out that safety equipment (or lack thereof) is primarily driven by the customer. If they start asking for exposure suits for those long deepwater flights we do nowadays in the GOM then I'm sure exposure suits will be all the fashion down here in no time.
Perception may be the truth but the truth will set you free... (I have no idea what I mean by that). Ask yourself (or better yet ask all of your PHI friends) why they continued to work for so long (decades in the case of your sample PHI pilot) for a company that by their account shortchanges them in the safety department and would threaten to fire them for speaking out. Are they masochists? Curmudgeons?
You're quite right in pointing out that safety equipment (or lack thereof) is primarily driven by the customer. If they start asking for exposure suits for those long deepwater flights we do nowadays in the GOM then I'm sure exposure suits will be all the fashion down here in no time.
Perception may be the truth but the truth will set you free... (I have no idea what I mean by that). Ask yourself (or better yet ask all of your PHI friends) why they continued to work for so long (decades in the case of your sample PHI pilot) for a company that by their account shortchanges them in the safety department and would threaten to fire them for speaking out. Are they masochists? Curmudgeons?
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SAS:
I always thought that moving the start switch to the cyclic was one of the slickest ideas ever. Who cares whether it was to prevent rotor flopping or hot starts...it was clever and worked fine, right? Same with pro-sealing the skin seams on a nude aircraft, plastic bathtub on the floor in the backseat, and the wood floor in baggage compartment etc. All good ideas born from years of experience.
Sorry for the thread drift but in my 10+ years in maintenance at PHI (including bouncing around the back seat of Maintenance One, behind my boss Chuckie) I always felt I could call BS and be listened to. Unlike a certain smaller operator I worked for down in Pearland, Texas....
The worry on 206's was burning up engines on starts not having the rotor system flopping about the place.
Sorry for the thread drift but in my 10+ years in maintenance at PHI (including bouncing around the back seat of Maintenance One, behind my boss Chuckie) I always felt I could call BS and be listened to. Unlike a certain smaller operator I worked for down in Pearland, Texas....
"Just a pilot"
SASless, and anybody else interested-
I can't speak to PHI's safety culture now, but I was there in the latter part of the Bob Suggs era, and stayed until 1997. I found their safety culture commendable. You're right that there was no official protection of a pilot's position when afoul of the company's interest. I saw good pilots 'run off' for pure personality conflict.
My opinion is that there was a strong unofficial pilot's advocate in the Training Department during those years. Opinion varied by individual, but largely, the Training Department was respected by the line pilots and management, knew the key contracts, and were the court of last appeal before the supposedly mandatory board (Not always implemented).
Training, at that time, required it's members to fly the line, so they were familiar with the real world. They were also actively involved in Safety, and were always willing to learn from whatever source about specific aircraft. When I butted heads with maintenance, management or contracts, taking the issue to the training department resolved it.
I took many maintenance, procedural, and contract issues up the chain to Lafayette and never had a problem. At various times, I was also the only PHI VFR pilot 'flying the job', or not flying, for weather- and was only questioned by management once. In that event, my call was supported with dissent, no repercussions.
Post script aside, on moving the start button to the cyclic- I wish the company had modified an existing grip button instead of grafting it to the control column. The only hot start I ever had resulted from the connection in the base of the button intermittently failing from the wire's stress from the pilot's manipulating it during starts. Against that, in some 20000 or so starts, in winds up to approximately 40 knots, that mod allowed better control of the Bell teetering rotor. I've done the 'knee thing' and it's not comparable in effect or ease of use...
I can't speak to PHI's safety culture now, but I was there in the latter part of the Bob Suggs era, and stayed until 1997. I found their safety culture commendable. You're right that there was no official protection of a pilot's position when afoul of the company's interest. I saw good pilots 'run off' for pure personality conflict.
My opinion is that there was a strong unofficial pilot's advocate in the Training Department during those years. Opinion varied by individual, but largely, the Training Department was respected by the line pilots and management, knew the key contracts, and were the court of last appeal before the supposedly mandatory board (Not always implemented).
Training, at that time, required it's members to fly the line, so they were familiar with the real world. They were also actively involved in Safety, and were always willing to learn from whatever source about specific aircraft. When I butted heads with maintenance, management or contracts, taking the issue to the training department resolved it.
I took many maintenance, procedural, and contract issues up the chain to Lafayette and never had a problem. At various times, I was also the only PHI VFR pilot 'flying the job', or not flying, for weather- and was only questioned by management once. In that event, my call was supported with dissent, no repercussions.
Post script aside, on moving the start button to the cyclic- I wish the company had modified an existing grip button instead of grafting it to the control column. The only hot start I ever had resulted from the connection in the base of the button intermittently failing from the wire's stress from the pilot's manipulating it during starts. Against that, in some 20000 or so starts, in winds up to approximately 40 knots, that mod allowed better control of the Bell teetering rotor. I've done the 'knee thing' and it's not comparable in effect or ease of use...
Oh good for you RB, so you want to tell us that you finally get to fly a medium ship at night over the water with night vision goggles and equipment the military forces of most modern countries have been using for years, I'm duly imprssed (not).
So how much flight time do you get, other than training?
What about the rest, water temperatures limitations, replacing glass windshields with inferior quality cast acrylics, not abiding by A/S limitations.
Let's bring this thread back on course.
So how much flight time do you get, other than training?
What about the rest, water temperatures limitations, replacing glass windshields with inferior quality cast acrylics, not abiding by A/S limitations.
Let's bring this thread back on course.
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tottigol,
I flew over 600 hours in S-76's last year mostly in C++'s how much did you fly.
Looking at the FAA certified limitations sections of my flight manual.
Oh wow look no mentions of any Airspeed limitaions for any installed windshield. Sorta hard to "not abide" to a airspeed limitations if there is no Flight manual Limitation on airspeed.
I guess 98% of all helicopters and 95% of all airplanes should be grounded according to you since they has plastic windshields as well.
How much S-76 time did you do last year? ......thats what I thought
The common Red Tailed Hawk can weight up to 4lbs. which is far beyond that of what any standard for the S-76 with any installed windshield just look outside when flying you can see hitting one of those bad boys or larger pelicans and or eagles is not going to be a good day.
you hit a 4 lbs redtailed hawk at 140 knots in any aircraft its gonna leave a mark.
It was sobering circling overhead N748P waiting for the Coast Guard to arrive.
6 months of being parked and flying next to N748P Shell 2 is over, they will be missed. Knowing it was a bird strike that started their demise is information to consider , the official report will be out when it is done. Until then.
I can chose to launch into the sky with the best training and equipment known to date and do something productive with the skills and knowledge I have gathered ,from those who have gone before me. For I am a helicopter pilot.
Or I can be a cowardiace arm chair aviation expert posting streams of meanless retoric or post on the internet as a has been or a "used to fly".
I am launching as safely as I can and I will wait on the report from the real professionals in the field of accident investigation. There were whiney babies before the crash and there will be whiney babies when the report is released.
Whine on,
I flew over 600 hours in S-76's last year mostly in C++'s how much did you fly.
Looking at the FAA certified limitations sections of my flight manual.
Oh wow look no mentions of any Airspeed limitaions for any installed windshield. Sorta hard to "not abide" to a airspeed limitations if there is no Flight manual Limitation on airspeed.
I guess 98% of all helicopters and 95% of all airplanes should be grounded according to you since they has plastic windshields as well.
How much S-76 time did you do last year? ......thats what I thought
The common Red Tailed Hawk can weight up to 4lbs. which is far beyond that of what any standard for the S-76 with any installed windshield just look outside when flying you can see hitting one of those bad boys or larger pelicans and or eagles is not going to be a good day.
you hit a 4 lbs redtailed hawk at 140 knots in any aircraft its gonna leave a mark.
It was sobering circling overhead N748P waiting for the Coast Guard to arrive.
6 months of being parked and flying next to N748P Shell 2 is over, they will be missed. Knowing it was a bird strike that started their demise is information to consider , the official report will be out when it is done. Until then.
I can chose to launch into the sky with the best training and equipment known to date and do something productive with the skills and knowledge I have gathered ,from those who have gone before me. For I am a helicopter pilot.
Or I can be a cowardiace arm chair aviation expert posting streams of meanless retoric or post on the internet as a has been or a "used to fly".
I am launching as safely as I can and I will wait on the report from the real professionals in the field of accident investigation. There were whiney babies before the crash and there will be whiney babies when the report is released.
Whine on,
I was also the only PHI VFR pilot 'flying the job', or not flying, for weather- and was only questioned by management once. In that event, my call was supported with dissent, no repercussions.
I think you are saying you made your own decisions re weather aborts or are you saying you were the only pilot to refuse to depart due to weather? Your post was a bit confusing.
Why would there be dissent but no repercussions?
Either you had the required weather and forecasts or you did not. Weather minimums are simple.
Marginal weather is where it gets sticky....and perhaps subject to differing opinions but I think a proper safety culture would support the "No Go" vote in those cases and challenge the "Go" vote if advancing safety was the basic issue.
"Just a pilot"
Originally Posted by SASless
I think you are saying you made your own decisions re weather aborts or are you saying you were the only pilot to refuse to depart due to weather? Your post was a bit confusing.
Why would there be dissent but no repercussions?
Either you had the required weather and forecasts or you did not. Weather minimums are simple.
Marginal weather is where it gets sticky....and perhaps subject to differing opinions but I think a proper safety culture would support the "No Go" vote in those cases and challenge the "Go" vote if advancing safety was the basic issue.
Why would there be dissent but no repercussions?
Either you had the required weather and forecasts or you did not. Weather minimums are simple.
Marginal weather is where it gets sticky....and perhaps subject to differing opinions but I think a proper safety culture would support the "No Go" vote in those cases and challenge the "Go" vote if advancing safety was the basic issue.
Next, I'm reading a lot here about S76 windshield substitutions, limitations, etc. as a factor in this particular accident. I'd be very surprised if such is proven, based on my experience with PHI's Training Department. If a limitation existed, it was taught and adhered to. As an example of the company commitment to safety, for the first 5 or 6 years I was with the company, fuel minimums were "Beach and 30" at all times. Outbound, and/or local in the field, you had to keep sufficient fuel to return to land and then another 30 minutes- none of the competition did so, that was a significant competitive disadvantage.
At the time I was associated with the company, training was first class. At that time, small ship pilots in Bells were kept abreast of 7 variations of the 206- The B; BIII; 'B3' (a PHI mod bringing a B to BIII equip); any of these on fixed floats; 206L; 206L1; '206L-30' (PHI L1 to L3); 206L3- ALL the limits; all the differences; systems; normal and emergency procedures, not to mention 'green hubs' and 'grey hubs'.
A regular feature of a class was argument with the provided material by line pilots, new and old- to encourage a stimulating and professional environment, as well as add to the soundness of training material. If a line captain carried the point, the syllabus was changed immediately. You can bet the Training staff knew their aircraft very, very well- they knew they would be challenged, and would be an arbiter on all manner of issues that arose in the field between re-quals.
The medium/IFR side was run in similar fashion and as sound in training, in my limited experience of less than a year.
The company provided training on par if not better than any other I ever got- including the military and Flight Safety, although PHI and those others is apples and oranges.
No, PHI wasn't as well equipped as the North Sea- but the Gulf isn't the North Sea, is it? That comparison is, or was, unfair in several regards- how many North Sea pilots do 100-150 landings a day, routinely? It is a very different operation, but that doesn't mean it's a lesser operation in any fashion. I believe that the level of training and support for the line pilots promotes a very safe operation. At one point, for a year or two, PHI's fleet accident rate, based on landings, matched (or beat some) US Part 121 operators.
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another bird strike to a plastic windshield
Anoter bird strike to a plastic windshield today.
Duck strike grounds Shandscair helicopter
the results were different. I am sure we will all hear from the Professional Truck Drivers/Amater Crash Investigators on this One as well. This is even one of the Thicker bird proof windshields that Agusta sells.
Duck strike grounds Shandscair helicopter
the results were different. I am sure we will all hear from the Professional Truck Drivers/Amater Crash Investigators on this One as well. This is even one of the Thicker bird proof windshields that Agusta sells.
Duck strike grounds Shandscair helicopter
Doug Finger/The Gainesville Sun
By Diane Chun
Staff writer
Published: Friday, March 6, 2009 at 3:24 p.m.
Last Modified: Friday, March 6, 2009 at 3:24 p.m.
Four people were flying aboard the Shandscair helicopter Thursday night when a duck shattered the windshield and entered the cockpit.
Quick thinking and the steady hands of the unflappable pilot, Don Irving, undoubtably saved the lives of everyone aboard, Shandscair personnel said Friday.
Irving was returning to Shands at the University of Florida carrying an unidentified trauma patient, flight nurse Marc Kazmierski and flight paramedic Ryan Fulford.
Irving is an experienced pilot. The 58-year-old has been flying helicopters for some 35 years.
The Shandscair emergency transport helicopter was a few minutes from the hospital around 8:10 p.m., preparing to land on the rooftop helipad, when it encountered the duck. The helicopter was flying at an altitude of 700 feet and a speed of 160 mph.
The duck shattered the windshield, then struck Irving, cutting his face and injuring one eye. The bird clipped off several switches on the overhead instrument panel before landing on the foot of one of the medical crewmen in the rear of the helicopter.
The crew reported that the collision sounded like an explosion, clinical coordinator Jim Howard reported Friday.
Irving remained calm, reporting to the Shandscair dispatcher that he would be making an emergency landing. He landed at the nearby Shandscair helipad, rather than on the hospital roof.
A rooftop landing might have put not only the crew and patient, but bystanders on the ground at risk, Howard explained.
The patient was transported by ambulance to the hospital’s trauma unit.
Following protocol after an incident like a bird strike, pilot Irving and the medical crew were not on duty Friday.
“Don would never say so, but he’s a hero, just like Capt. Sully Sullenberger,” said Shandscair medical director David Meurer.
Sullenberger was hailed as a hero last month when he put down a plane with 155 people aboard in the Hudson River, with no loss of life.
That U.S. Airways plane also struck one or more birds, disabling two engines moments after takeoff.
Inside a hangar, the helicopter was being cleaned. Blood spattered the concrete floor on one side. It was Irving’s, not the duck’s.
Chief mechanic Michael Kelley was checking to be sure that beyond replacing several broken switches and one side of the windshield, there was no further damage.
The helicopter should be cleared to fly again Saturday, according to Howard.
The duck was DOA ... dead on arrival.
Doug Finger/The Gainesville Sun
By Diane Chun
Staff writer
Published: Friday, March 6, 2009 at 3:24 p.m.
Last Modified: Friday, March 6, 2009 at 3:24 p.m.
Four people were flying aboard the Shandscair helicopter Thursday night when a duck shattered the windshield and entered the cockpit.
Quick thinking and the steady hands of the unflappable pilot, Don Irving, undoubtably saved the lives of everyone aboard, Shandscair personnel said Friday.
Irving was returning to Shands at the University of Florida carrying an unidentified trauma patient, flight nurse Marc Kazmierski and flight paramedic Ryan Fulford.
Irving is an experienced pilot. The 58-year-old has been flying helicopters for some 35 years.
The Shandscair emergency transport helicopter was a few minutes from the hospital around 8:10 p.m., preparing to land on the rooftop helipad, when it encountered the duck. The helicopter was flying at an altitude of 700 feet and a speed of 160 mph.
The duck shattered the windshield, then struck Irving, cutting his face and injuring one eye. The bird clipped off several switches on the overhead instrument panel before landing on the foot of one of the medical crewmen in the rear of the helicopter.
The crew reported that the collision sounded like an explosion, clinical coordinator Jim Howard reported Friday.
Irving remained calm, reporting to the Shandscair dispatcher that he would be making an emergency landing. He landed at the nearby Shandscair helipad, rather than on the hospital roof.
A rooftop landing might have put not only the crew and patient, but bystanders on the ground at risk, Howard explained.
The patient was transported by ambulance to the hospital’s trauma unit.
Following protocol after an incident like a bird strike, pilot Irving and the medical crew were not on duty Friday.
“Don would never say so, but he’s a hero, just like Capt. Sully Sullenberger,” said Shandscair medical director David Meurer.
Sullenberger was hailed as a hero last month when he put down a plane with 155 people aboard in the Hudson River, with no loss of life.
That U.S. Airways plane also struck one or more birds, disabling two engines moments after takeoff.
Inside a hangar, the helicopter was being cleaned. Blood spattered the concrete floor on one side. It was Irving’s, not the duck’s.
Chief mechanic Michael Kelley was checking to be sure that beyond replacing several broken switches and one side of the windshield, there was no further damage.
The helicopter should be cleared to fly again Saturday, according to Howard.
The duck was DOA ... dead on arrival.
The helicopter was flying at an altitude of 700 feet and a speed of 160 mph.
The duck shattered the windshield, then struck Irving, cutting his face and injuring one eye. The bird clipped off several switches on the overhead instrument panel before landing on the foot of one of the medical crewmen in the rear of the helicopter.
Inside a hangar, the helicopter was being cleaned. Blood spattered the concrete floor on one side. It was Irving’s, not the duck’s.
The duck shattered the windshield, then struck Irving, cutting his face and injuring one eye. The bird clipped off several switches on the overhead instrument panel before landing on the foot of one of the medical crewmen in the rear of the helicopter.
Inside a hangar, the helicopter was being cleaned. Blood spattered the concrete floor on one side. It was Irving’s, not the duck’s.
Visor not down on the pilot's Helmet?
They're Gucci Kit and look really grand and smart....but you need to use the safety kit or you might as well not have it.
Single pilot and no helmet (or without clear visor down at night)?
Last edited by SASless; 7th Mar 2009 at 15:41.
RB, sorry for the delay but I was busy flying something faster than your 76, this one even has standard glass windshields and our company is not shortchanging its pilots with inferior quality cast acrylic stuff.
About 500 hrs of the faster heavier and more capable aircraft last year, and yes hitting a bird @ 150 kts TAS shall leave a mark anywhere it hits.
Believe me, we grieve our colleagues as much as you do as we know that something catastrophic had to happen to get two experienced pilots that quick.
I am glad you like your new "heroe" job, however I recommend you stay away from the coolaid, and I am shure you know what I mean.
About 500 hrs of the faster heavier and more capable aircraft last year, and yes hitting a bird @ 150 kts TAS shall leave a mark anywhere it hits.
Believe me, we grieve our colleagues as much as you do as we know that something catastrophic had to happen to get two experienced pilots that quick.
I am glad you like your new "heroe" job, however I recommend you stay away from the coolaid, and I am shure you know what I mean.
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This is my nineth year of a EMS assignment its not a hero job assignment, and I just finished 4 days of rig crew changes all over the Gulf as well and doing some friendly flying around as spring break is in full swing on the beaches.
Fying in the gulf has all about weight and the oil companies were happy with the weight carrying addition without glass and the A/C generator and they speced out offshore configured aircraft as such for their operations.
There have been far more fatal accidents for other causes than bird strikes.
Safety will increase with increase in technology. and Bird vs aircraft is always a ongoing study.
I am sure the NTSB will show that no matter what windshields glass or plexi that a bird strike of that size collapsed the "center post" into the throttle quadrant shutting down the engines. And the pilots were unable to recover.
Sikorsky is getting a lot of mileage out of the windshield letter but there are still no FAA fllight manual changes.
Cause the focus is actually the center post collapsing and not the windshields
A one in a million shot or to be exact many millions as PHI has over 10 million hours logged to date.
Fying in the gulf has all about weight and the oil companies were happy with the weight carrying addition without glass and the A/C generator and they speced out offshore configured aircraft as such for their operations.
There have been far more fatal accidents for other causes than bird strikes.
Safety will increase with increase in technology. and Bird vs aircraft is always a ongoing study.
I am sure the NTSB will show that no matter what windshields glass or plexi that a bird strike of that size collapsed the "center post" into the throttle quadrant shutting down the engines. And the pilots were unable to recover.
Sikorsky is getting a lot of mileage out of the windshield letter but there are still no FAA fllight manual changes.
Cause the focus is actually the center post collapsing and not the windshields
A one in a million shot or to be exact many millions as PHI has over 10 million hours logged to date.
SAS, the version I know did not involve cowboys and a far hotter and drier climate, great analogy nonetheless.
RB, I was just wondering of your origins because of the quality of your English, now you confirmed my doubts about both.
Nothing against PHI, remember the employees are the ultimate customer support image.
RB, I was just wondering of your origins because of the quality of your English, now you confirmed my doubts about both.
Nothing against PHI, remember the employees are the ultimate customer support image.
Last edited by tottigol; 10th Mar 2009 at 02:17.
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Where is the Gore???
Seems that all birds do not explode after impact?? Duck, Eagle, Hawk in the middle. Thanks for the post Rotor...
Last edited by buckeem; 10th Mar 2009 at 16:48. Reason: clarification
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You gentlemen and I use that term loosly just hate somebody pointing out that you are incorrect in your statements.
You would rather make your false assumtions than believe someone that is on the scene day in and day out with far greater experience in the aircraft, enviroment, and customer that you have and when that happens you then want to make it personal.
I do not have a degree in English but I am smart enough to let the professional accident investigators do their jobs and keep making my decisions on know facts rather than "news media" and "used to"and "has been" opinions.
I am sure that the NTSB and Sikorsky are just hanging on ever post of yours to run out and make the necessary modifications on your opinions.
tottigol said" and our company is not shortchanging its pilots with inferior quality cast acrylic stuff." And just what nameless company is that so we can comment on its long history?? embarassed to mention it I see.
If that is not a personal slam on PHI I am sure that 12 peers down here would say you have a axe to grind againist PHI.
The acrylic windshield is the standard offshore configuration of the S-76C++ just check Sikorsky website, And the Oil companys spec out the aircraft wanting the lessor weight of no glass windshields and no A/C generator. Some are changing because of the accident and others are not. Most are smart enough to see what all the facts are when NTSB releases the full report.
SAS less said "Single pilot and no helmet (or without clear visor down at night)?
Yes this pilot had a helmet on and visor down the media is usually wrong in its reporting and so are you on every one of your post.
Believing everything that the media prints will lead you down the wrong road every time.
You would rather make your false assumtions than believe someone that is on the scene day in and day out with far greater experience in the aircraft, enviroment, and customer that you have and when that happens you then want to make it personal.
I do not have a degree in English but I am smart enough to let the professional accident investigators do their jobs and keep making my decisions on know facts rather than "news media" and "used to"and "has been" opinions.
I am sure that the NTSB and Sikorsky are just hanging on ever post of yours to run out and make the necessary modifications on your opinions.
tottigol said" and our company is not shortchanging its pilots with inferior quality cast acrylic stuff." And just what nameless company is that so we can comment on its long history?? embarassed to mention it I see.
If that is not a personal slam on PHI I am sure that 12 peers down here would say you have a axe to grind againist PHI.
The acrylic windshield is the standard offshore configuration of the S-76C++ just check Sikorsky website, And the Oil companys spec out the aircraft wanting the lessor weight of no glass windshields and no A/C generator. Some are changing because of the accident and others are not. Most are smart enough to see what all the facts are when NTSB releases the full report.
SAS less said "Single pilot and no helmet (or without clear visor down at night)?
Yes this pilot had a helmet on and visor down the media is usually wrong in its reporting and so are you on every one of your post.
Believing everything that the media prints will lead you down the wrong road every time.
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Lone Survivor Files Suit
Associated Press - March 27, 2009 3:14 PM ET
NEW ORLEANS (AP) - The lone survivor of a helicopter crash that killed eight people in Louisiana in January is suing the aircraft's manufacturer and two other companies.
The federal lawsuit filed Thursday on behalf of Steven Yelton and his wife seeks $22.5 million in damages from Sikorsky Aircraft Corp., PHI Inc. and Aeronautical Accessories Inc.
The suit claims PHI installed a defective windshield made by Aeronautical Accessories on the Sikorsky S-7C helicopter that plunged into a swamp near Morgan City on Jan. 4.
The cause of the crash remains under investigation, but the National Transportation Safety Board says the probe found evidence a bird may have struck the helicopter.
NEW ORLEANS (AP) - The lone survivor of a helicopter crash that killed eight people in Louisiana in January is suing the aircraft's manufacturer and two other companies.
The federal lawsuit filed Thursday on behalf of Steven Yelton and his wife seeks $22.5 million in damages from Sikorsky Aircraft Corp., PHI Inc. and Aeronautical Accessories Inc.
The suit claims PHI installed a defective windshield made by Aeronautical Accessories on the Sikorsky S-7C helicopter that plunged into a swamp near Morgan City on Jan. 4.
The cause of the crash remains under investigation, but the National Transportation Safety Board says the probe found evidence a bird may have struck the helicopter.
FAA To "Classify" Bird Strike Reporting
The NTSB has recommended the FAA make Bird Strike Reports Mandatory by operators. The FAA still allows the reporting to be voluntary. The AP news service has requested the full data base from the FAA under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) and has not received that information.
The FAA is proposing to "classify" the data and thus prevent public access to the Bird Strike Reporting system and its data.
The FAA cites concerns the Reports could be mis-interpeted by Airline Travelers and other interest groups thus discouraging Operators from filing the now voluntary reports.
FAA Wants to Keep Bird Strike Records Secret - Presidential Politics | Political News - FOXNews.com
The FAA is proposing to "classify" the data and thus prevent public access to the Bird Strike Reporting system and its data.
The FAA cites concerns the Reports could be mis-interpeted by Airline Travelers and other interest groups thus discouraging Operators from filing the now voluntary reports.
FAA Wants to Keep Bird Strike Records Secret - Presidential Politics | Political News - FOXNews.com
Join Date: May 2005
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So make reporting mandatory and let the greater travelling public have information they may expect to have. Maybe the next move would be to make all data concerning aircraft safety restricted in case it affected the choices the public used when planning a trip?