Helicopter down in Saba/St. Maarten, any more info?
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West Indian - (and others who are interested and wondering why Saba isn't equipped w/ proper medivac helicopter etc): The latest and greatest idea (prior to accident) is a proposal, from the Dutch government in an effort to manage costs when the the Neth Antilles is dissolved, is that ALL patients will be transported to SXM by boat, i.e. no hospital beds on SAB anymore. I hope that the elected officials will politely suggest that that is not the best idea, since just like with air transport, sea transport isn't always possible. So rather than the situation getting better, it may actually get worse (unless people start demanding otherwise).
Someone also asked why the police helicopter didn't perform this mission - honestly I'm not sure, but it had the same risks: it's also an R-44.
Someone also asked why the police helicopter didn't perform this mission - honestly I'm not sure, but it had the same risks: it's also an R-44.
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When I flew the police R44 in SXM (a few years ago, before TIMTS' time) I noticed an inclination to believe that "the helicopter would always be there". As unsuitable for medevac as the R44 is I tried to educate whomever I came in contact with about its shortfalls in this respect. One day while talking with one of the Saba officials I was told this was understood and that they had an arrangement in place with Island Helicopters in Tortola BVI to use their B222 in EMS fit if required. This seemed eminently sensible to me, using a SPIFR twin with room and staff for proper in-flight patient care. I wonder what happened to this arrangement? I heard on the grapevine that Island had some trouble with the FAA wrt. their 135 certificate but their website is updated as of this year so I assume that was sorted out.
I can think of at least two reasons why the police R44 wasn’t used. First, as TIMTS has also said, there is the “little boy who cried wolf” factor. You can be told only so many times “XYZ is going to die if you don’t…” only to find out it was something minor before you automatically raise the BS flag on that statement and your standard response becomes “OK, we’ll get him at first light”. Your colleagues going through the same experience and warning you about it just speeds up this change of attitude.
Secondly, the police version of the R44 as I flew it is even less suitable for patient transport than the standard version: there is no right rear seat, this space is taken up by electronics, so nobody can sit with the patient to administer even the absolute minimum of care (e.g. preventing the patient from inadvertently opening the door, talking with the patient to keep him conscious, etc.).
In any case, with the only blind flying instrumentation being a single artificial horizon (that doesn’t take well to either the constant vibration in a light helicopter or the salt-laden air in the islands) the only way I would have contemplated a night flight to Saba even in the direst of emergencies would have been with completely clear skies and a scorcher of a moon – and that was when I was young and stupid.
I can think of at least two reasons why the police R44 wasn’t used. First, as TIMTS has also said, there is the “little boy who cried wolf” factor. You can be told only so many times “XYZ is going to die if you don’t…” only to find out it was something minor before you automatically raise the BS flag on that statement and your standard response becomes “OK, we’ll get him at first light”. Your colleagues going through the same experience and warning you about it just speeds up this change of attitude.
Secondly, the police version of the R44 as I flew it is even less suitable for patient transport than the standard version: there is no right rear seat, this space is taken up by electronics, so nobody can sit with the patient to administer even the absolute minimum of care (e.g. preventing the patient from inadvertently opening the door, talking with the patient to keep him conscious, etc.).
In any case, with the only blind flying instrumentation being a single artificial horizon (that doesn’t take well to either the constant vibration in a light helicopter or the salt-laden air in the islands) the only way I would have contemplated a night flight to Saba even in the direst of emergencies would have been with completely clear skies and a scorcher of a moon – and that was when I was young and stupid.
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WestIndian I wish you luck. Goverment officials should understand that nothing is more important than the healt and safety of their people.
It puzzles me to think they believe a Police helicopter program is more needed than having some kind of hospital or MEDEVAC procedures.
I have flown such kind of inter islands medevac flights and I realized that the politicians get really sensible about it when it is the time you have to fly his daughter or wife or mother. Then they surely do not want to hear about dangerous situations then. And be sure one day or another it will come the time one of then or their relatives would need such services.
The absolute minimum thing you need there is a fully certified autopilot single pilot IFR helicopter and of course twin engine. And of course a pilot with enough experience as single pilot IFR on such type.
Less than that should not even be attempted.
Sell that Police 44 and get a more capable but a "general purpose" helicopter with multiple configuration cabin that can do both jobs.
We are on the 21st Century and if your island is living off tourism as does mine, you do not want tourist to think that if anything happens to them while there in hollydays, they would be sent on a "extreme high risk" mission or simply left at the hotel with an aspirin.
Usually the medical insurances cover part of the cost of such programs.
If you have an airport another solution is using a fix wing aircraft. A king Air or something alike, wake up the airport personel for such sittuations, get some of them reachable by night if such need arises so they can light up the runway and provide meteo info.
There are plenty of solutions, some of them would require more investment than others but all must be safe, legal and should be aimed to saving lives, not loosing them.
I have been working on an HEMS night inter-island helicopter program for some years so if you need some imput about this just PM me and I would be happy to provide you more data.
It puzzles me to think they believe a Police helicopter program is more needed than having some kind of hospital or MEDEVAC procedures.
I have flown such kind of inter islands medevac flights and I realized that the politicians get really sensible about it when it is the time you have to fly his daughter or wife or mother. Then they surely do not want to hear about dangerous situations then. And be sure one day or another it will come the time one of then or their relatives would need such services.
The absolute minimum thing you need there is a fully certified autopilot single pilot IFR helicopter and of course twin engine. And of course a pilot with enough experience as single pilot IFR on such type.
Less than that should not even be attempted.
Sell that Police 44 and get a more capable but a "general purpose" helicopter with multiple configuration cabin that can do both jobs.
We are on the 21st Century and if your island is living off tourism as does mine, you do not want tourist to think that if anything happens to them while there in hollydays, they would be sent on a "extreme high risk" mission or simply left at the hotel with an aspirin.
Usually the medical insurances cover part of the cost of such programs.
If you have an airport another solution is using a fix wing aircraft. A king Air or something alike, wake up the airport personel for such sittuations, get some of them reachable by night if such need arises so they can light up the runway and provide meteo info.
There are plenty of solutions, some of them would require more investment than others but all must be safe, legal and should be aimed to saving lives, not loosing them.
I have been working on an HEMS night inter-island helicopter program for some years so if you need some imput about this just PM me and I would be happy to provide you more data.
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I worked down on the islands as well flying the police helicopter and I don’t think you realize how small and difficult the airport of Saba is to land at with a fixed wing. Even during the day under good conditions it is not a routine job. There is a reason the DCA.NA (Directorate of Civil Aviation Netherlands Antilles) require fixed wing pilots to have 1500 hrs STOL time before they are allowed to land there and there are no night flights to the airport.
A couple of years ago +-6 or 7 there was a deal with the B222 from Tortolla and the Saban government and the DCA.NA to provide medical emergency evacuations. But it seems to have been dissolved or the cost were too high.
As for the police helicopter: the Netherlands Antilles government in Curacao tried going for a bigger multi-mission helicopter but the operating cost were so high that that they cancelled the whole police helicopter project for Curacao.
I agree with everything TIMTS and buitenzorg have posted. I have had lady luck on my side on a couple of nights down there but I feel my instrument training/ rating has helped change the balance for the better. Flying over water at night is dangerous and should never be taken lightly.
A couple of years ago +-6 or 7 there was a deal with the B222 from Tortolla and the Saban government and the DCA.NA to provide medical emergency evacuations. But it seems to have been dissolved or the cost were too high.
As for the police helicopter: the Netherlands Antilles government in Curacao tried going for a bigger multi-mission helicopter but the operating cost were so high that that they cancelled the whole police helicopter project for Curacao.
I agree with everything TIMTS and buitenzorg have posted. I have had lady luck on my side on a couple of nights down there but I feel my instrument training/ rating has helped change the balance for the better. Flying over water at night is dangerous and should never be taken lightly.
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From bramv22
Not only is night VFR dangerous, but flying into reduced visibility during daylight hours over open water (for example heavy rain) is also very dangerous. If I can't see through it, I don't fly into it.
Flying over water at night is dangerous and should never be taken lightly.
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The beacon on top of the tower at Mt Scenery (2,882 ft) isn't working (something happened to power lines leading to top of mountain). And that's been like that a while and wasn't fixed when I was there in Aug. That is probably not the highest dollar (guilder) item in the budget and it's being neglected. There are new officials in government than 6-7 years ago, so not sure what happened to the arrangement w/ the BVI medivac operation.
Everyone on Saba knows each other on a first name basis - so whenever anyone gets sick, you know that patient and their family. The call for airlift is usually made by the attending physician, who is not a local and can provide some sort of objectivity to the situation. Maybe I'm biased because I am from Saba, but I'm trying to think of a 'boy who cried wolf' situation, and burst appendix, cardiac arrest, and emergency C-sections don't seem to factor in to fit into that category. Things happen and the infrastructure needs to be there for when it does. Obviously that does not mean an R-44 operated by a private citizen.
Everyone on Saba knows each other on a first name basis - so whenever anyone gets sick, you know that patient and their family. The call for airlift is usually made by the attending physician, who is not a local and can provide some sort of objectivity to the situation. Maybe I'm biased because I am from Saba, but I'm trying to think of a 'boy who cried wolf' situation, and burst appendix, cardiac arrest, and emergency C-sections don't seem to factor in to fit into that category. Things happen and the infrastructure needs to be there for when it does. Obviously that does not mean an R-44 operated by a private citizen.
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Islandgirl,
For an example of a "boy who cried wolf" situation just look at the situation on the night of the accident. After the crash a boat was called which transported the patient and he survived. That boat could have been called in the first place and two deaths avoided. The helicopter was not required to save a life, but that was how it was almost always presented to me while I was flying there.
Anyway, there has only been a helicopter based at SXM since 2001. What was being done in case of medical emergencies before that time?
For an example of a "boy who cried wolf" situation just look at the situation on the night of the accident. After the crash a boat was called which transported the patient and he survived. That boat could have been called in the first place and two deaths avoided. The helicopter was not required to save a life, but that was how it was almost always presented to me while I was flying there.
Anyway, there has only been a helicopter based at SXM since 2001. What was being done in case of medical emergencies before that time?
To Islandgirl (and others who ask the same question): ...And where does the money come from? If a government doesn't even have enough money to fix a navigation beacon, how on earth would they be able to afford a "medevac capable" helicopter? Answer: They can't.
In Honduras, my boss provided our private helicopter as free emergency medical transport to the residents of our small island (Guanaja). The necessity of the transport was determined by the local doctor; I was not involved in the go/no-go decision (only the fly/no-fly one). It was supposed to be "life or death" and generally it was the case that the people I flew probably would have died otherwise...maybe.
Fortunately, the FH1100 converted easily and cleverly from passenger to stretcher configuration. Although it could accommodate a basic rectangular "backboard" type of stretcher, we fabricated a smaller one that was easier to use.
And no, neither the local government of Guanaja nor the federal government of Honduras had the money to provide such airborne service on their own.
In fact, one of the very sad ironies was that when I'd land in the nearest big city on the mainland (La Ceiba) we'd often find that there was no ground ambulance available either. See, there is no money to fund public EMS, so that service simply does not exist. In Honduras (and probably many small countries as well), if you're going to the public hospital, you have to get yourself there no matter how badly you're injured. (BTW I was prohibited from landing directly at the private hospital, and the public hospital does not have a heliport.) My passengers often finished their journey in taxicabs or the bed of a pickup truck. Many times it was heartbreaking (especially if you're familiar with the roads in poor Central American countries).
And in case that picture didn't post, try this:
http://bp2.blogger.com/_s8Qzr1EyjkA/...s+Pics+024.jpg
Maybe we've come to a point where people assume a certain standard level of care - that air and ground ambulances are always available everywhere. They are not. As an tourist, you have to realize that if you're seriously injured outside of your home country, you may very well die and oh well, tough luck.
And if someone lives on an island like Saba, they must do so with the sober understanding that certain sophisticated medical help may be unavailable. Just because there is a "sightseeing helicopter" nearby guarantees nothing...heck, doesn't even imply anything in the way of medical transport.
Municipal helicopters are great tools, but they are very, very expensive, especially as infrequently as they are needed and used in an EMS role. Assuming that every government can afford a helicopter big enough to function as an occasional 24/7 all-weather air ambulance is rather naive.
In Honduras, my boss provided our private helicopter as free emergency medical transport to the residents of our small island (Guanaja). The necessity of the transport was determined by the local doctor; I was not involved in the go/no-go decision (only the fly/no-fly one). It was supposed to be "life or death" and generally it was the case that the people I flew probably would have died otherwise...maybe.
Fortunately, the FH1100 converted easily and cleverly from passenger to stretcher configuration. Although it could accommodate a basic rectangular "backboard" type of stretcher, we fabricated a smaller one that was easier to use.
And no, neither the local government of Guanaja nor the federal government of Honduras had the money to provide such airborne service on their own.
In fact, one of the very sad ironies was that when I'd land in the nearest big city on the mainland (La Ceiba) we'd often find that there was no ground ambulance available either. See, there is no money to fund public EMS, so that service simply does not exist. In Honduras (and probably many small countries as well), if you're going to the public hospital, you have to get yourself there no matter how badly you're injured. (BTW I was prohibited from landing directly at the private hospital, and the public hospital does not have a heliport.) My passengers often finished their journey in taxicabs or the bed of a pickup truck. Many times it was heartbreaking (especially if you're familiar with the roads in poor Central American countries).
And in case that picture didn't post, try this:
http://bp2.blogger.com/_s8Qzr1EyjkA/...s+Pics+024.jpg
Maybe we've come to a point where people assume a certain standard level of care - that air and ground ambulances are always available everywhere. They are not. As an tourist, you have to realize that if you're seriously injured outside of your home country, you may very well die and oh well, tough luck.
And if someone lives on an island like Saba, they must do so with the sober understanding that certain sophisticated medical help may be unavailable. Just because there is a "sightseeing helicopter" nearby guarantees nothing...heck, doesn't even imply anything in the way of medical transport.
Municipal helicopters are great tools, but they are very, very expensive, especially as infrequently as they are needed and used in an EMS role. Assuming that every government can afford a helicopter big enough to function as an occasional 24/7 all-weather air ambulance is rather naive.
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Assuming that every government can afford a helicopter big enough to function as an occasional 24/7 all-weather air ambulance is rather naive.
While of course would be specific cases and most of them are on the very undeveloped countries I do not think neither Saba or Honduras fit into that.
The problem is that Goverments have other priorities others than the people's health.
Fors instance you mentioned Honduras.
ok lets see.
Honduras Airforce Order of Battle.
Bell 412SP
C-130A
Ce180E
CeA185F
Ce310R
UH-1H
Hughes 500D
IAI201
IAI1124-1
PA-31P
PA-31-350
PA-34-200T
PA-42
RC695A
U-17A
Ce182P
MXT-7-180
T-27
T-41B
T-41D(H)
F-5E
F-5F
A-37B
OA-37B
C-130A
Ce180E
CeA185F
Ce310R
UH-1H
Hughes 500D
IAI201
IAI1124-1
PA-31P
PA-31-350
PA-34-200T
PA-42
RC695A
U-17A
Ce182P
MXT-7-180
T-27
T-41B
T-41D(H)
F-5E
F-5F
A-37B
OA-37B
So lets see. we have Fighters, Hercules Transports and multiple helicopter types including Uh1 and B412 but of course they cannot afford to have a medical evacuation system.
So we have that you with a single engine piston helicopter build in the 70's and privately owned is the only thing that mean dead or life for the poor people that may need urgent medical transportation.
I do not pretend to change the world here on this post, we all aware of the injustices of it, however while some countries surely cannot afford to buy a helicopter (the list of thos countries is really small) the truth is that in some others, medical care and people's health is simply not on top of the list of the goverment.
I am sure the rich people or politicians on those countries do not suffer such troubles, either they fly on their private helicopter or the are kindly transported by the airforce nicelly called by an influent friend.
On this page for less than 1 million euros you can buy a twin engine fully IFR certified helicopter.
http://www.avbuyer.com/aircraftsales...aftResults.asp
I do not know the Saba economical situation buy just imagine inside the helicopter would have been a famous rich american or european tourist.
Then I am sure the post accident economical situation would be far worse due the lack of tourism.
Furia, just one small correction: The FH1100 is a turbine-powered ship. Yes, we wished the government had provided such service but we knew they could not.
Guanaja has about 10,000 people, none of whom pay any income or property tax. But never mind tiny Guanaja. With no heavy industry, no tourism industry at all, and most of their citizens in poverty, Honduras as a nation will never have enough revenue for even the most basic civil or social services. If they won't even fund municipal EMS ground services in their cities, how could anyone even dream of something as "frivolous" as an air ambulance?
During my time in Honduras, I only ever saw the F-5's, that Israeli Industries Arava (or whatever it's called) and the 412 fly. And those aircraft only flew rarely, in conjunction with specific U.S. anti-drug operations, for which they were probably partially reimbursed. The Honduran government, existing for centuries on handouts from other governments (like the U.S.) devotes precious little of those monies to their air force. The local joke was that the drug dealers supplied the fuel to the air force so the pilots could maintain currency - with the proviso that the airplanes *not* be used in routine drug interdiction (which they were not). The only military aircraft I ever regularly saw in Honduras were from the U.S. (The others on your list are surely those that have been impounded or confiscated. I doubt very much if even a tiny percentage of them are airworthy.)
But you're correct in that even countries that can afford municipal EMS helicopters choose to not. Even if St. Maarten could afford to purchase a...oh...S-76, say, look at the cost of operating it. When you factor in all of the costs of a 24/7/365 aviation department, the numbers get so big that the government figures that money can be "better" spent on other things. And until we perfect a "Star Trek"-like transporter device, some people are going to die because they cannot get to a hospital fast enough.
The CIA website (www.cia.gov) reports that the Netherlands Antilles are home to about 225,000 people. In 2004 the government there had expenditures of $950 million versus revenues of $758 million. (This includes $21 million in foreign aid.) Whoops! Small imbalance there. The Netherlands Antilles also had in 2004 a staggering $2.68 billion in foreign debt.
Do you see money for a public EMS helicopter there? No chance.
Hey, life is risky. Sometimes it's riskier in some places than others. The single-pilot, VFR-only R-44 simply should not have been tasked to do night "medevacs," period, end of story. Had it been a rich and famous American or European tourist onboard at the time of this accident, he'd probably be thinking right now, "Gee, I wish I hadn't decided to vacation in Saba. Not my wisest decision in retrospect." But that doesn't mean St. Maarten should immediately install an IFR EMS helicopter with a budget of three or four or five million dollars per year.
I mean, it's nice to dream, but it isn't going to happen.
Guanaja has about 10,000 people, none of whom pay any income or property tax. But never mind tiny Guanaja. With no heavy industry, no tourism industry at all, and most of their citizens in poverty, Honduras as a nation will never have enough revenue for even the most basic civil or social services. If they won't even fund municipal EMS ground services in their cities, how could anyone even dream of something as "frivolous" as an air ambulance?
During my time in Honduras, I only ever saw the F-5's, that Israeli Industries Arava (or whatever it's called) and the 412 fly. And those aircraft only flew rarely, in conjunction with specific U.S. anti-drug operations, for which they were probably partially reimbursed. The Honduran government, existing for centuries on handouts from other governments (like the U.S.) devotes precious little of those monies to their air force. The local joke was that the drug dealers supplied the fuel to the air force so the pilots could maintain currency - with the proviso that the airplanes *not* be used in routine drug interdiction (which they were not). The only military aircraft I ever regularly saw in Honduras were from the U.S. (The others on your list are surely those that have been impounded or confiscated. I doubt very much if even a tiny percentage of them are airworthy.)
But you're correct in that even countries that can afford municipal EMS helicopters choose to not. Even if St. Maarten could afford to purchase a...oh...S-76, say, look at the cost of operating it. When you factor in all of the costs of a 24/7/365 aviation department, the numbers get so big that the government figures that money can be "better" spent on other things. And until we perfect a "Star Trek"-like transporter device, some people are going to die because they cannot get to a hospital fast enough.
The CIA website (www.cia.gov) reports that the Netherlands Antilles are home to about 225,000 people. In 2004 the government there had expenditures of $950 million versus revenues of $758 million. (This includes $21 million in foreign aid.) Whoops! Small imbalance there. The Netherlands Antilles also had in 2004 a staggering $2.68 billion in foreign debt.
Do you see money for a public EMS helicopter there? No chance.
Hey, life is risky. Sometimes it's riskier in some places than others. The single-pilot, VFR-only R-44 simply should not have been tasked to do night "medevacs," period, end of story. Had it been a rich and famous American or European tourist onboard at the time of this accident, he'd probably be thinking right now, "Gee, I wish I hadn't decided to vacation in Saba. Not my wisest decision in retrospect." But that doesn't mean St. Maarten should immediately install an IFR EMS helicopter with a budget of three or four or five million dollars per year.
I mean, it's nice to dream, but it isn't going to happen.
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Buitenzorg et al: Before 2001 (and now) you have a 50% chance (roughly) of an emergency happening during the day - during which time you would be transported to SXM on a regularly scheduled Winair flight or Winair charter, if a plane was available. I know in the 90s my aunt had acute appendicitis. I believe at the time the helicopter that came was stationed on the French side. I honestly don't know what kind it was (I was a teenager). Other than that I suppose you calculate which is the shorter time table - boat to SXM during the night (dangerous as well) or daybreak for a Winair flight. And obviously if the possibility exists for emergencies, patients are sent to SXM in advance, i.e. if it is thought a woman may have a difficult labour, they are sent to SXM a month before due date.
So yes, there are inherent risks to living on Saba and most people their recognize that. I live in a major US city where the average ER wait time is 8 hours due to doctor shortage... I had a major emergency and waited 4 hours. That's the risk we take in living here.
On another note, it's a lucky that the patient was able to be transported by boat. The captains's mother-in-law was in hospital and passed away in the midst of all these goings-on.
The people who are interested - the concerned citizens, elected officials, the doctors and health officials etc - will continue trying to find a solution for emergency situation on Saba that minimizes the risk of those trying to help the patient. No one on Saba or anywhere wants to see a situation like this ever again.
So yes, there are inherent risks to living on Saba and most people their recognize that. I live in a major US city where the average ER wait time is 8 hours due to doctor shortage... I had a major emergency and waited 4 hours. That's the risk we take in living here.
On another note, it's a lucky that the patient was able to be transported by boat. The captains's mother-in-law was in hospital and passed away in the midst of all these goings-on.
The people who are interested - the concerned citizens, elected officials, the doctors and health officials etc - will continue trying to find a solution for emergency situation on Saba that minimizes the risk of those trying to help the patient. No one on Saba or anywhere wants to see a situation like this ever again.
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To try and enlighten people on the cost of operating ANY helicopter for EMS(or police), all one has to do is to look to many jurisdictions in North America. Being from Canada I will use that as an example.
In Alberta, where I was before coming here to Antigua, STARS has been the main EMS provider. It is a non-profit organisation that uses charitable donations and fundraisers for its operating revenue. When I left ten years ago they had 3 helicopters in 2 cities. These cities combined (and the surrounding communities) comprise nearly 2 million people. The provincial and munincipal governments could not justify the need with the cost. The police in Calgary have a helicopter, it was also paid for by charitable donations and fundraisers, for the same reasons. And Alberta is one of the wealthiest provinces in Canada as well.
In Toronto, the munincipal authorities still cannot justify spending the money on a police helicopter in an area that is roughly 6 million people.
So now put that into perspective with our small island populations and it can be deduced that the revenue needed to run a helicopter (police or EMS) is just not there with such a small population base.
Helicopters are very expensive toys, that's why we don't see many (in relation to airplanes)parked at airports around the world. With a 4 to 6 passenger helicopter, you can triple or quadruple the operating costs of a similar sized airplane. That doesn't include the purchase price.
In Alberta, where I was before coming here to Antigua, STARS has been the main EMS provider. It is a non-profit organisation that uses charitable donations and fundraisers for its operating revenue. When I left ten years ago they had 3 helicopters in 2 cities. These cities combined (and the surrounding communities) comprise nearly 2 million people. The provincial and munincipal governments could not justify the need with the cost. The police in Calgary have a helicopter, it was also paid for by charitable donations and fundraisers, for the same reasons. And Alberta is one of the wealthiest provinces in Canada as well.
In Toronto, the munincipal authorities still cannot justify spending the money on a police helicopter in an area that is roughly 6 million people.
So now put that into perspective with our small island populations and it can be deduced that the revenue needed to run a helicopter (police or EMS) is just not there with such a small population base.
Helicopters are very expensive toys, that's why we don't see many (in relation to airplanes)parked at airports around the world. With a 4 to 6 passenger helicopter, you can triple or quadruple the operating costs of a similar sized airplane. That doesn't include the purchase price.
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FYI
Saba has a land area of 13 km˛ (5 sq. miles). At the 2001 Netherlands Antilles census, the population was 1,349 inhabitants, which means a population density of 104 inhabitants per km˛. In 2004 the population was estimated at 1,424 inhabitants.
St. Maarten is approx. 87 km˛. The official population on the Dutch side is 50,000
Sint Eustatius has a land area of 21 km˛ (8.1 sq. miles). At the 2001 Netherlands Antilles census, the population was 2,292 inhabitants, which means a population density of 109 inh. per km˛. In 2004, the population was estimated at 2,498 inhabitants.
With these population numbers it seems almost impossible to support a dedicated Air Ambulance service.
Saba has a land area of 13 km˛ (5 sq. miles). At the 2001 Netherlands Antilles census, the population was 1,349 inhabitants, which means a population density of 104 inhabitants per km˛. In 2004 the population was estimated at 1,424 inhabitants.
St. Maarten is approx. 87 km˛. The official population on the Dutch side is 50,000
Sint Eustatius has a land area of 21 km˛ (8.1 sq. miles). At the 2001 Netherlands Antilles census, the population was 2,292 inhabitants, which means a population density of 109 inh. per km˛. In 2004, the population was estimated at 2,498 inhabitants.
With these population numbers it seems almost impossible to support a dedicated Air Ambulance service.
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Sandyhelmet
The Montserrat situation does not apply as that was a volcano "crisis" situation and both the 365 and the ferry were dumped when the new airport opened.
The Montserrat situation does not apply as that was a volcano "crisis" situation and both the 365 and the ferry were dumped when the new airport opened.
This 'inability to fund' police and EMS aircraft still affects the 'rich' Western World despite the availability of significant government funding.
That earlier listing of the largely grounded Honduran air fleet by Furia raises the similar inabilities of most nations to fly what they have. You only need to peep inside the hangars of even the average Western air force to realise that even they run a significant 'Christmas Tree' fleet so what chance does a tiny island nation stand?
More on subject we are used to the large fleets of the police fire and ambulance in the major US Cities but just what is their actual level of readiness across the well funded fleet?
Contrast that with smaller forces in the supposed rich heartland of the US and you will run into a dozen mixed type aircraft fleet largely grounded long term by a lack of engineering expertise, finance and pilots. Dozens of US Cities are flying barely 50 hours a year on their 'free' DoD surplus OH58s, or making do with a borrowed Cessna flown by a handy Deputy with a PPL for just the same reasons as those in St Maarten. Dare I say that some break as many rules of the air as appears to be the case with the St Maarten R44 operation.
That earlier listing of the largely grounded Honduran air fleet by Furia raises the similar inabilities of most nations to fly what they have. You only need to peep inside the hangars of even the average Western air force to realise that even they run a significant 'Christmas Tree' fleet so what chance does a tiny island nation stand?
More on subject we are used to the large fleets of the police fire and ambulance in the major US Cities but just what is their actual level of readiness across the well funded fleet?
Contrast that with smaller forces in the supposed rich heartland of the US and you will run into a dozen mixed type aircraft fleet largely grounded long term by a lack of engineering expertise, finance and pilots. Dozens of US Cities are flying barely 50 hours a year on their 'free' DoD surplus OH58s, or making do with a borrowed Cessna flown by a handy Deputy with a PPL for just the same reasons as those in St Maarten. Dare I say that some break as many rules of the air as appears to be the case with the St Maarten R44 operation.
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Island Girl wrote:
I asked the Island Health Care person today about this and she said she's not heard that, even on 'the road'. She's heard they intend to expand the current 12 bed hospital considerably.
The Dutch are here in force and certainly making their presence known, but hopefully not closing the hospital. Republic of Saba - has a nice ring to it....
West Indian - (and others who are interested and wondering why Saba isn't equipped w/ proper medivac helicopter etc): The latest and greatest idea (prior to accident) is a proposal, from the Dutch government in an effort to manage costs when the the Neth Antilles is dissolved, is that ALL patients will be transported to SXM by boat, i.e. no hospital beds on SAB anymore. I hope that the elected officials will politely suggest that that is not the best idea, since just like with air transport, sea transport isn't always possible. So rather than the situation getting better, it may actually get worse (unless people start demanding otherwise).
Someone also asked why the police helicopter didn't perform this mission - honestly I'm not sure, but it had the same risks: it's also an R-44.
Someone also asked why the police helicopter didn't perform this mission - honestly I'm not sure, but it had the same risks: it's also an R-44.
The Dutch are here in force and certainly making their presence known, but hopefully not closing the hospital. Republic of Saba - has a nice ring to it....
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Saba landing
bramv22 wrote:
And not just any STOL, Twin Otters only. No night flights and Islandgirl, you'll get this (and someone said it before): this side of Saba (Zions Hill) isn't known for having their lights on late.
For perspective, see here. For the not feint of heart, youtube 'Saba Landing' for several real and FX landings. I know, I know, LUA in Nepal, even SBH and many others. I ain't saying it's the hairiest fixed wing, I'm just saying there's some adrenaline involved in the last 1300 ft. And I speak solely as a passenger.
The heliport as you would guess is near the terminal building. Usually no skirt lights even, as the place closes tight at sundown.
I worked down on the islands as well flying the police helicopter and I don’t think you realize how small and difficult the airport of Saba is to land at with a fixed wing. Even during the day under good conditions it is not a routine job. <snip>
For perspective, see here. For the not feint of heart, youtube 'Saba Landing' for several real and FX landings. I know, I know, LUA in Nepal, even SBH and many others. I ain't saying it's the hairiest fixed wing, I'm just saying there's some adrenaline involved in the last 1300 ft. And I speak solely as a passenger.
The heliport as you would guess is near the terminal building. Usually no skirt lights even, as the place closes tight at sundown.
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Buitenzord wrote:
Don't know you brother but I got to take issue with this. No insight like hindsight, as they say. In retrospect, Ronnie had not had an MI after all but only a lethal case of tachycardia. It couldn't be resolved on Saba so at least one fully licensed and qualified physician called for a medevac. And it wasn't resolved at the hospital on St Maarten either. It took paddles in San Juan to bring him out of danger and into stable condition. I'm told he probably has permanent kidney damage.
When I code, gentlemen, just take me to a better hospital quick. You can debate it online afterward.
For an example of a "boy who cried wolf" situation just look at the situation on the night of the accident. After the crash a boat was called which transported the patient and he survived. That boat could have been called in the first place and two deaths avoided. The helicopter was not required to save a life, but that was how it was almost always presented to me while I was flying there.
When I code, gentlemen, just take me to a better hospital quick. You can debate it online afterward.
Last edited by WestIndian; 28th Oct 2008 at 01:19.
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sandyhelmet wrote:
While T&T has 'just' 1.3 million people, my 5 sq mi island of Saba has 1.3 THOUSAND. And yet we have heart attacks, too. We have an island council that appropriates limited funds to needed services. Wanna wager where a barely sufficient but very costly 'appropriate' medevac heli ranks?
That being said, the tiny twin island republic of Trinidad & Tobago with a population of just 1.3 million operates an S76, an AS355 and a couple of BO105s for police and medevac services. Yes, oil revenue helps, but so does political will.