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Oz Blackhawk Reported Crashed Into Sea Near Fiji

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Oz Blackhawk Reported Crashed Into Sea Near Fiji

Old 29th Nov 2006, 08:36
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Oz Blackhawk Reported Crashed Into Sea Near Fiji

Local news in Brisbane is carrying reports of a Australian Blackhawk having ditched into the sea off Fiji. No other detail was given. Except a "stay tuned" for more news. I hope crew and pax are OK.

SS
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Old 29th Nov 2006, 08:59
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News Update

AN Australian Army Black Hawk helicopter has been lost at sea near Fiji, The Australian Defence Force (ADF) said tonight.

Defence offered few details, saying only that the helicopter had been operating from aboard the landing ship HMAS Kanimbla.

Kanimbla and two other Australian warships were despatched earlier this month to stand by off Fiji to rescue Australian nationals in event of a coup by the Fijian military.

Defence Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston will hold a media conference later this evening.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...5-1702,00.html

Australian soldier killed in Black Hawk crash
By 7News An Australian Black Hawk Helicopter has crashed off the coast of Fiji, killing at least one soldier on board and leaving others missing.

The aircraft was operating from the HMAS Kanimbla which is off Fiji to rescue Australian nationals in the event of a military coup in the country.

The Australian Defence Department confirmed a Black Hawk has been lost at sea off the coast of Fiji.

Australian Defence Chief Angus Houston will address the media in Canberra later tonight.

The Black Hawk is the main transport helicopter for the Australian Army.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/061129/23/11lza.html


Our thoughts are with them!!
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Old 29th Nov 2006, 11:33
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The Australian Defence Force (ADF) says at least one Army personnel member has died in a Black Hawk helicopter crash near Fiji.
Chief of the Defence Force, Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston, says the helicopter was involved in an accident while operating off HMAS Kanimbla.
He says the helicopter was attempting to land on the Kanimbla when something happened and the Black Hawk went over the side and into the sea.
Ten personnel were on board the helicopter at the time; one is still missing, and one died of his injuries after the crash.
From: http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems...1/s1800631.htm
It seems that it was a SAS operation - from what was said on the 7.30 Report tonight.
This is very sad. Condolences to the family of the member who died. It must also be terrible for the family of the missing member.

Last edited by Time Out; 29th Nov 2006 at 12:33.
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Old 29th Nov 2006, 23:40
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As per usual, the media are making out that the Black Hawk has a "dark history" of crashes. What crap. Do any of them do any research into these things, the hours they have flown, not just here, but the entire world wide fleet, the type of work they do, why they do what they do? NO........
They will get some "expert" who lurks around a dark place to come out and slag off the aircraft, the military, the manufacturer, the engineers who work on them, the people who bought them, anything to drum up a dramatic story, anything but the whole unbiased truth.
And for the record I'm not ex military, (was in the RAN for a few years a long time ago, back when a "stoker", the back-bone of the fleet, thought a "birdie" (and that term for me includes Pilots) was the lowest form of human life), and I am not a huge fan of mil pilots even though I think they are very, very good at what they do (catch me/kill me type of stuff).
I just think they don't get any credit for what they do for us and when things like this happen everybody jumps on the slagging band wagon.
IMHO the family of anyone killed in the military should be looked after for life in the same manner as the blood sucking pollies get after doing nothing more dangerous than a few years of polishing furniture with their bums.
Rant over.
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Old 30th Nov 2006, 01:05
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Good news from a sad event

Today, as past President of the HAA and an ex-grunt pilot (a long time ago), I have been one of many asked to go on TV and radio to give their point of view.

The sad news is that the ADF has once again lost young people who are out there doing their job in a high risk activity, preparing to save others from the bad guys that are rampaging around the globe.

The good news is that many of those who provided comments have stated that the Blackhawk is widely used, does a good job and in the past decade or so has not had any maintenance problems.

I was able to state (and it was accepted) that on hours flown in many dangerous parts of the world, the safety record is very good in the ADF.

Many people miss this important point, in fact the Australian Army's accident rate per 100,000 hours (and they fly a lot) is probably around just under 2/100,000 hours flown, bettered only by the US Army.

Thankfully all the media frenzy has turned to the escape of the soldiers and the value of HUET. The usual accusations and blame seeking faded away (now subject to investigation) and the media looked at the excellent training the crews had to achieve such a low loss rate.

Hopefully this positive theme will continue, Dave Carlton, 2UE Sydney after being convinced by me that the Blackhawk was OK, turner his attention to the importance of HUET.

A lesson for us all.

Our thoughts are with the families who have lost.

Maybe every dark cloud does have a sliver lining?
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Old 30th Nov 2006, 06:49
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Robsrich, perhaps you could answer a question in my mind.
Do army crews get recurrent training in At sea ship board manouvers?

It woulld seem to be outside their scope though I suppose the navy has no suitable passenger type.
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Old 30th Nov 2006, 07:11
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There's often a requirement for Army helicopter crews to transfer people and equipment to/from Navy vessels, so yes, day and night initial and recurrent training are part of that, or were when I was involved - still would be now, I'm sure.
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Old 30th Nov 2006, 07:19
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Yes still is required
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Old 30th Nov 2006, 07:50
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Name of killed Black Hawk pilot released
By 7News
The pilot killed in the Black Hawk helicopter crash off Fiji yesterday afternoon was 35-year-old Captain Mark Bingley.
Captain Bingley was killed when the helicopter he was in crashed into the HMAS Kanimbla while performing a training exercise.

One of the crew is still missing at sea
Captain Bingley was posted to Townsville to the 171 Aviation Squadron as a Qualified Flying Instructor on Black Hawk helicopters.

Defence Minister, Brendan Nelson, said Captain Bingley served the Australian Army with distinction.

"All Australians should feel very proud of his courage and commitment," he said.

"Our sympathies go to all of Captain Bingley's family, in particular his wife and son."

Defence force chief, Air Marshal Angus Houston, also extended his condolences to the family and friends of Captain Bingley.

"He was an extremely competent and highly regarded member of the Army's aviation community," he said.

"Captain Bingley will be remembered as a dedicated pilot who had infectious energy and a great sense of humour."

Captain Bingley was born in Tasmania and enlisted in the Australian Army in 1990.

On completion of recruit training, he served for several years as a rifleman in The First Battalion, The Royal Australian Regiment and was promoted to the rank of corporal in 1997.

He was subsequently accepted for training as a helicopter pilot.

On completion of his training, he was commissioned as a Second Lieutenant in the Army Aviation Corps in 1998.

During his service he flew helicopters for the 5 Aviation Regiment in Australia and overseas and undertook training in the US.

He was awarded the United Nations Medal for service in Cambodia and East Timor, the International Forces East Timor Medal, the Australian Active Service Medal, the Defence Long Service Medal and the Australian Defence Medal.

He is survived by his wife and son.


Condolences to the family and friends
LowNr
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Old 30th Nov 2006, 09:33
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http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=66207
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Old 30th Nov 2006, 10:55
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HUET and CRM?

I think this is very sad news indeed. However it may possibly highlight the relative lack of continuation training given to these guys these days, despite the now common call to deploy these Ozzie crews on operations, a thing quite rare 10 to 20 years ago. The nine news story points to the last major Blackhawk tragedy which in my memory had as a contributing factor a similar lack of training and recency. There certainly is nothing wrong with the aircraft.
Landing on boats, rigs etc is a common task for offshore pilots. The job is done on a daily basis by day and night. There are mishaps but relatively few, and when there are, most people successfully evacuate, eg the G-JSAR incident last week.
Sadly many of the lessons of the civil industry are not passed on to those in the military, such as HUET. (Although this training was available for military crews in the eighties.) Many ex military pilots with this experience also tend not to be involved with the now common 'civil military ab initio' and advanced training. Perhaps this should be encouraged. Maybe someone could enlighten this author whether CRM training and recurrency is a part of ab initio and Squadron training these days.
HUET possibly should be passed on to troops operating to ships as well. All passengers travelling offshore are required to undergo this training.
Too much speculation I think.... Hopefully more will come to light through the video of what went wrong. Did an engine fail prior to commital point. Was there a commital point? etc.
My sincere sympathy to the family and friends.
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Old 30th Nov 2006, 13:21
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Your're way off the mark!

B412,

Your concerns regarding lack of currency are well off the mark. All aircrew operating within a maritime environment are required to be HUET compliant. But it is not just the crew, those pers from the RDF (or any pers) that may be required to travel by helo over water are also required to be current. Those in the SASR are certainly up to date regarding HUET.

So let's not speculate about the recency of training etc. As those that have undergone HUET know, it is very different to any other sort of training or water based activity.

S64
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Old 30th Nov 2006, 14:24
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so long bingas

I've been waiting for the names, I had a bad feeling ever since I saw the news

(tas) 'weejin, grunter, pioneer, sniper, pilot, pisshead

not necessarily in that order
an absolute gem of a bloke who had the midas touch
he was a jet - & could turn his hand to anything

he knew his stuff backwards & his shit was always in one sock
a true gent & an incredible loss

I'll miss ya mate

"hit 'em with some khmer sambou"
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Old 30th Nov 2006, 22:00
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Angry Aus military planners need to be strung up!!!

Very sad indeed!
....but where were the emergency pop out floats that Sikorsky equip the maritime version of the S70 with????
[email protected]#king nowwhere to be seen......
More lives lost due to Military planning incompetence..... Apparently we've run short on the appropriate variant for maritime operations...
Sure send the Blackhawks via ship to mobilise to Fiji..... But dont routinely operate them without appropriate maritime equipment from a ship.... Morons...
Does the term "Seahawk" ring a bell..... Certainly seems to with most other navy's throughout the world!!!!
[email protected]#k we're an embarasment!
Nowhere else do you see this shit accepted....
These guys families have got a pretty good liable case if you ask me......
Rant over!!!
SD
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Old 30th Nov 2006, 22:19
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You're kidding?

Sundance. Please don't be so quick to assume everyone is an 'embarrassment' when you refer to 'we'. It's obvious you're functioning on something out of Jane's so just keep it to yourself.
We'll miss ya Bingers!
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Old 30th Nov 2006, 22:19
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HUET

Decode please.

The best I can do is H Underwater Escape Training.
What is the H? Maybe Helicopter.
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Old 30th Nov 2006, 22:50
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So long Bingas

Originally Posted by B412 View Post
Sadly many of the lessons of the civil industry are not passed on to those in the military, such as HUET. (Although this training was available for military crews in the eighties.) Many ex military pilots with this experience also tend not to be involved with the now common 'civil military ab initio' and advanced training. Perhaps this should be encouraged. Maybe someone could enlighten this author whether CRM training and recurrency is a part of ab initio and Squadron training these days.
HUET possibly should be passed on to troops operating to ships as well. All passengers travelling offshore are required to undergo this training.
B412,

Judging by several of your comments that I have quoted above, you clearly have not ever served in an Australian military aviation unit. This leads me to think that perhaps you are not nearly qualified or enlightened enough to be drawing some of the conclusions that you have. To set the record straight:

HUET

All army aircrew have to be qualified and requalified in HUET every two years. To put it simply, if your HUET currency lapses, you're grounded until you requalify. As Super64 mentioned, all "frequent flyer" troops (i.e. all SO and most 3 Bde units) do the same training every two years as the aircrew.

CRM

Once again, if you don't do your CRM refresher every two years, no flying!

Switching my focus now to Sundance76:

Honestly mate, the whole idea of flying in a UTILITY helicopter squadron is that your tasking and role changes from one day to the next. Given that the Blackhawk is operated by the ADF primarily as a battlefield UTILITY transport helicopter, I suppose you can understand why they don't have floats.


Finally, to echo the sentiments of other pruners on this thread, Bingas was a first class aviator and top bloke. Rest in peace mate.

The Baffler
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Old 1st Dec 2006, 00:36
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Correct me if I'm wrong guys but the aussie seahawks fitout for their normal role is a bit inflexible for say troop carrying or emergency evacuation.
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Old 1st Dec 2006, 03:34
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Question No joke!

mickinst
Sundance. Please don't be so quick to assume everyone is an 'embarrassment' when you refer to 'we'. It's obvious you're functioning on something out of Jane's so just keep it to yourself.


Not following you mate! 'Jane' what does this mean???????
My comments are slatted squarely at the F-wits who thought it was a good idea to assign a helicopter for ship based operations without the basic equipment that will buy our soldiers enough time to get out if it ditches....... "Emergency Pop Out Floats" When I refer to the royal "we", I’m referring to the reputation of Australian's in general..... No matter what the cause of the event, basic oversights such as not having floats for maritime operations make us all look stupid on the world stage...... Our ADF leaders can do better for the health and wellbeing of our soldiers during non wartime operations like this.... I don’t see why they can't!!!!

If floats aren’t required for the movement of ADF personnel to and from a ship over water, then why does the SeaHawk and every other civilian helicopter undertaking over water personnel transport need them???? It begs the question doesn’t it?

baffler15
You miss the point....
Not having a go at the Blackhawk's functionality.... or the fact that it is primarily used by the ADF as a battlefield UTILITY transport helicopter.....
But you've reinforced my point - it’s a battlefield UTILITY transport helicopter - not a MARITIME transport helicopter. If you're going to use them for this work, then equip them or use the Seahawk.
You se, I'm having a go at the twits who thought it was a good idea to utilise them for ship based "predominately over water" operations when they're not equipped with the basic safety gear that buys our soldiers time to exit the airframe before it sinks to depths beyond reach..... I don’t know the weight of these things, but I think it’s safe to guess they sink extraordinarily fast....
Our military boys and girls deserve better!
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Old 1st Dec 2006, 05:55
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I've seen the brand new Tiger HUET trainer in operation in Darwin. The rig is a full tandem sized cockpit mockup, without instruments or actual seats, everything is stainless steel and she's suspended above a crystal clear chlorinated pool at a lovely temperature. The pilots get in, the rig is lowered at a nice slow pace into the pool and lazily flops over on it's side, the guys unstrap and swim out of the cockpits.

That's the preparation for a stack in the water with blades exploding everywhere and turbulence and falling off the side of a boat fifty feet into the sea upside down.

Then again, a more realistic HUET trainer would be a rather hard thing to build if it was to replicate a ditching with some realism.

I guess it's better than nothing.
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