How much do helicopter pilots earn?
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O.K ladies and gents, aside from all that talk what are we actually making in dollars?
for how many hours?
and on what type of operation?
.....simple!
For those interested...
(Oh and I am an ex chippie, very luckie to be where I am, still hold that fantastic love of helicopters and are just as happy to watch them from the ground or be doing it myself).
I probably do about 300 per year, 24/7 SPIFR twin with other added responcibilities.
For approx 80 000 Aus with phone, fuel, renewals, plank renewals..... all costa covered etc.
Probably should me on somethink alittle more, but the big picture I think counts.
for how many hours?
and on what type of operation?
.....simple!
For those interested...
(Oh and I am an ex chippie, very luckie to be where I am, still hold that fantastic love of helicopters and are just as happy to watch them from the ground or be doing it myself).
I probably do about 300 per year, 24/7 SPIFR twin with other added responcibilities.
For approx 80 000 Aus with phone, fuel, renewals, plank renewals..... all costa covered etc.
Probably should me on somethink alittle more, but the big picture I think counts.
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HF,
I agree with you - it seems I just have a slightly different interpretation of qualification and experience. But these are the skills that pilots really need, but they are either not taught (or at least developed) at all or not taught properly.
You have the benefit of having a military background, where selection was well organised and practised. The subsequent training was far more comprehensive than civillian courses. But that was for a different job, where pilots are more or less the top of the food chain. You were groomed in the forces to believe you were the best, and no doubt you had to work hard to get to the standard required. Like it or not, the civillian system is very different. We are nothing but bums on seats who manage to tick the right boxes every six months. Fortunately most of us strive to be a lot more than adequate. But we are not rewarded for good performance - promotion is based on time served (and being able to tick a new set of boxes). That sends a very clear message to me about the way pilots are viewed by the aviation industry managers. No, it is not the way it should be. But that is what you get with the current system. We are not recognised as being top of the food chain and we will not be until the civillian industry does something to develope the skills a pilot really needs to command an aircraft right from the very start of training.
Rotorswede,
My biggest gripe is with Airline pilots (both rotary and fixed wing) who have lost touch with reality and I have not really made that clear. The type of pilots you mention (utility for want of a better description) are generally of a different attitude. Maybe because they are highly specialised, inherently flexible and are more highly valued by their employers.
Despite might my rather modest view of piloting, I love flying, I love the job and I live the life style. It would be great if pay and conditions were better, but I won't loose sleep over it. It would be great if pilots really were on a par with Architects and Engineers (Lawyers and Accountants as well if you like), but I don't really care. But what would be the best is if aviation got its act together and made the training mean something more than just the hoop jumping exercise that it is now.
I agree with you - it seems I just have a slightly different interpretation of qualification and experience. But these are the skills that pilots really need, but they are either not taught (or at least developed) at all or not taught properly.
You have the benefit of having a military background, where selection was well organised and practised. The subsequent training was far more comprehensive than civillian courses. But that was for a different job, where pilots are more or less the top of the food chain. You were groomed in the forces to believe you were the best, and no doubt you had to work hard to get to the standard required. Like it or not, the civillian system is very different. We are nothing but bums on seats who manage to tick the right boxes every six months. Fortunately most of us strive to be a lot more than adequate. But we are not rewarded for good performance - promotion is based on time served (and being able to tick a new set of boxes). That sends a very clear message to me about the way pilots are viewed by the aviation industry managers. No, it is not the way it should be. But that is what you get with the current system. We are not recognised as being top of the food chain and we will not be until the civillian industry does something to develope the skills a pilot really needs to command an aircraft right from the very start of training.
Rotorswede,
My biggest gripe is with Airline pilots (both rotary and fixed wing) who have lost touch with reality and I have not really made that clear. The type of pilots you mention (utility for want of a better description) are generally of a different attitude. Maybe because they are highly specialised, inherently flexible and are more highly valued by their employers.
Despite might my rather modest view of piloting, I love flying, I love the job and I live the life style. It would be great if pay and conditions were better, but I won't loose sleep over it. It would be great if pilots really were on a par with Architects and Engineers (Lawyers and Accountants as well if you like), but I don't really care. But what would be the best is if aviation got its act together and made the training mean something more than just the hoop jumping exercise that it is now.
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Get real...
FL's assertion that PPL's like me simply 'potter around and thus don't achieve the aviation fulfilment of a professional pilot' is amusing. I'm sure you don't really mean that?!
I have been flying for 30 years and have many airline pilot friends.
It seems that the first few years are simply wonderful. However, as they get older and want to spend more time with their family - especially if they are on wife no.2 or 3 as many airline pilots are - the dissatisfaction with the odd hours, days away from home and tiredness increases.
Also, work for anybody else and your earning potential is predictable. However, take the risks, suffer the sleepless nights, believe in what you are doing, dread the phone ringing when you are fairly certain it will be a supplier you havent paid as opposed to a customer - all those things - then you may well end up with a few bob to enjoy flying for flyings sake.
As an employer, I will pay the least I can for the skill. In my sector I pay top dollar. If I wanted to employ a pilot and peanuts were acceptable then thats the market rate - sorry but true.
Pilots have chosen a career that, for the moment anyway, is oversubscribed. That alone dictates the wages.
Its all going downhill too - check out the pay and pensions of 10 years ago, especially in BA. Check out your pension deal ( if you have one) now compared to then.
If my post merely serves to invoke jealousy then all I will say is, 'I took the risks - you can too'.
I started my own business 10 years ago in my forties. I was completely potless then.
I could have become a professional pilot, regretted it for a while and now, looking back am chuffed to bits that I didnt.
I also know that post 55 I havent got to rely on a pension. Theres a can of worms.......
How big is the shortfall in your scheme? Are you worried about it? You aren't at 25 but you sure need to worry about it 30 years later.
Pottering around in my gorgeous vintage flying machines when I feel like it as opposed to getting up in the middle of the night to fly Club 18-30 to Ibiza - I know what I rather do.
It is of course true that some do land some plum jobs in aviation. They are the lucky ones. Chances are you'll end up flying the 'kiss me quicks' who paid more to park their car than they did for their flight.
I wish anybody embarking on a career in aviation the best of luck. You'll need it.
HP
I have been flying for 30 years and have many airline pilot friends.
It seems that the first few years are simply wonderful. However, as they get older and want to spend more time with their family - especially if they are on wife no.2 or 3 as many airline pilots are - the dissatisfaction with the odd hours, days away from home and tiredness increases.
Also, work for anybody else and your earning potential is predictable. However, take the risks, suffer the sleepless nights, believe in what you are doing, dread the phone ringing when you are fairly certain it will be a supplier you havent paid as opposed to a customer - all those things - then you may well end up with a few bob to enjoy flying for flyings sake.
As an employer, I will pay the least I can for the skill. In my sector I pay top dollar. If I wanted to employ a pilot and peanuts were acceptable then thats the market rate - sorry but true.
Pilots have chosen a career that, for the moment anyway, is oversubscribed. That alone dictates the wages.
Its all going downhill too - check out the pay and pensions of 10 years ago, especially in BA. Check out your pension deal ( if you have one) now compared to then.
If my post merely serves to invoke jealousy then all I will say is, 'I took the risks - you can too'.
I started my own business 10 years ago in my forties. I was completely potless then.
I could have become a professional pilot, regretted it for a while and now, looking back am chuffed to bits that I didnt.
I also know that post 55 I havent got to rely on a pension. Theres a can of worms.......
How big is the shortfall in your scheme? Are you worried about it? You aren't at 25 but you sure need to worry about it 30 years later.
Pottering around in my gorgeous vintage flying machines when I feel like it as opposed to getting up in the middle of the night to fly Club 18-30 to Ibiza - I know what I rather do.
It is of course true that some do land some plum jobs in aviation. They are the lucky ones. Chances are you'll end up flying the 'kiss me quicks' who paid more to park their car than they did for their flight.
I wish anybody embarking on a career in aviation the best of luck. You'll need it.
HP
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Hairyplane
"FL's assertion that PPL's like me simply 'potter around and thus don't achieve the aviation fulfilment of a professional pilot' is amusing. I'm sure you don't really mean that?!"
If I hadn't meant it, I wouldn't have said it.
I too have been flying for 30 years (34 to be precise, helicopters for almost 10). I too have flown vintage aircraft, owned a half share in a Harvard for many years and still own a half share in WW2 fighter. I've been lucky to do a wide range of flying from (a little) poodling about in spamcans to flying the Atlantic in a single-engine f/w, and would be content to compare my range of flying experiences and types flown with you or most other PPLs.
I don't doubt you'd rather do what you're doing and fly for pleasure - so would I (most of the time) - but, if you think the sort of flying we PPLs do compares with the being a professional pilot, you're deluding yourself IMHO.
Nor do I doubt that your recreational flying fulfils your needs, but it wouldn't be enough to fulfil someone whose love of flying is so great he wants to spend his life doing it - any more than being a professional pilot and reading law books/taking part in mock trials and amateur dramatics in my leisure time would have fulfilled my ambition to be a barrister fighting cases in court.
Of course life is tough for many newly-qualified professional pilots, and for some helicopter pilots who've been in the industry a long time but they didn't need you to tell them that - nor to rub their noses in your wealth. This is a pilots forum, predominantly a professional pilots and aspiring professional pilots forum. They know all too well the problems they face pursuing their ambition to fly professionally.
If my post merely serves to invoke jealousy then all I will say is, 'I took the risks - you can too'.
It didn't invoke any jealousy in me. I'm very happy with my lot. Your bragging about your affluence and toys simply made me cringe, and I found your boasting that you could pay pilots peanuts because of the unemployment in the sector irritating.
Nothing personal - the 'I got loadsa money' nouveau riche have always had that effect upon me.
"Chances are you'll end up flying the 'kiss me quicks' who paid more to park their car than they did for their flight."
Do you mean people who aren't wealthy, and are just like you were before you made money and took your 'kiss me quick' hat off?
(I thought of trying to explain 'bad form', but decided you wouldn't understand. You're obviously very happy being the way you are, which is your absolute right.)
"FL's assertion that PPL's like me simply 'potter around and thus don't achieve the aviation fulfilment of a professional pilot' is amusing. I'm sure you don't really mean that?!"
If I hadn't meant it, I wouldn't have said it.
I too have been flying for 30 years (34 to be precise, helicopters for almost 10). I too have flown vintage aircraft, owned a half share in a Harvard for many years and still own a half share in WW2 fighter. I've been lucky to do a wide range of flying from (a little) poodling about in spamcans to flying the Atlantic in a single-engine f/w, and would be content to compare my range of flying experiences and types flown with you or most other PPLs.
I don't doubt you'd rather do what you're doing and fly for pleasure - so would I (most of the time) - but, if you think the sort of flying we PPLs do compares with the being a professional pilot, you're deluding yourself IMHO.
Nor do I doubt that your recreational flying fulfils your needs, but it wouldn't be enough to fulfil someone whose love of flying is so great he wants to spend his life doing it - any more than being a professional pilot and reading law books/taking part in mock trials and amateur dramatics in my leisure time would have fulfilled my ambition to be a barrister fighting cases in court.
Of course life is tough for many newly-qualified professional pilots, and for some helicopter pilots who've been in the industry a long time but they didn't need you to tell them that - nor to rub their noses in your wealth. This is a pilots forum, predominantly a professional pilots and aspiring professional pilots forum. They know all too well the problems they face pursuing their ambition to fly professionally.
If my post merely serves to invoke jealousy then all I will say is, 'I took the risks - you can too'.
It didn't invoke any jealousy in me. I'm very happy with my lot. Your bragging about your affluence and toys simply made me cringe, and I found your boasting that you could pay pilots peanuts because of the unemployment in the sector irritating.
Nothing personal - the 'I got loadsa money' nouveau riche have always had that effect upon me.
"Chances are you'll end up flying the 'kiss me quicks' who paid more to park their car than they did for their flight."
Do you mean people who aren't wealthy, and are just like you were before you made money and took your 'kiss me quick' hat off?
(I thought of trying to explain 'bad form', but decided you wouldn't understand. You're obviously very happy being the way you are, which is your absolute right.)
FL knocks another ball over the right field fence!
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Hairyplane,
I am so glad you gave up the idea of professional flying.
I can sleep at night knowing I will never have to share a cockpit with you.
Best of luck to you and your ego............... You make a beautiful couple.
I am so glad you gave up the idea of professional flying.
I can sleep at night knowing I will never have to share a cockpit with you.
Best of luck to you and your ego............... You make a beautiful couple.
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Flying for peanuts
Nice one FL, 'protect us all from the nasty man who doesn't agree we should all earn Ł100k a year.'
Lets all stick our fingers in our ears and repeat, 'La La La La....' - you know how it goes - when somebody has the audacity to suggest an alternative.
In fact, London Transport will probably pay you more money to drive a bus.
Recently hospitalised, my Senior Registrar complained that he could earn more money as a plumber.
You do need to do a few sums to be a professional pilot so work this one out -
1. Boeing: Ł25Million+?
2. Pilots earning, say Ł50k a year
3. Maintenance.
4. Fuel
5. 1000 other big buck costs
6. Plummeting fares
What is the only thing above that an employer can save on in order to make more profit/ be more competitive?
I have just booked some BA flights for Ł13.50 plus taxes. Madness. The joke is that I would have been perfectly happy to have paid a lot more. In fact to have paid the right price .
I have a lot of pilot friends, many of whom have got well paid jobs. Howeverthey ain't youngsters.
I think its a travesty that pilots aren't paid more. However, I bet we aren't far off a situation where young co-pilots will need to pay the employer in return for the experience.
They will then need to add the cost of a years salary to their training loans.
Pie in the skie maybe. Hopefully it will never happen. Watch this space though....
Supply of pilots exceeds demand. Pity the poor recently qualified doctors who cant get a job either. You guys aint alone. Nobody owes you a living either.
If you succeed in making one out of it - hurrah for you.
More personal insults expected from the voice of the poor hard done pilots.
HP
Lets all stick our fingers in our ears and repeat, 'La La La La....' - you know how it goes - when somebody has the audacity to suggest an alternative.
In fact, London Transport will probably pay you more money to drive a bus.
Recently hospitalised, my Senior Registrar complained that he could earn more money as a plumber.
You do need to do a few sums to be a professional pilot so work this one out -
1. Boeing: Ł25Million+?
2. Pilots earning, say Ł50k a year
3. Maintenance.
4. Fuel
5. 1000 other big buck costs
6. Plummeting fares
What is the only thing above that an employer can save on in order to make more profit/ be more competitive?
I have just booked some BA flights for Ł13.50 plus taxes. Madness. The joke is that I would have been perfectly happy to have paid a lot more. In fact to have paid the right price .
I have a lot of pilot friends, many of whom have got well paid jobs. Howeverthey ain't youngsters.
I think its a travesty that pilots aren't paid more. However, I bet we aren't far off a situation where young co-pilots will need to pay the employer in return for the experience.
They will then need to add the cost of a years salary to their training loans.
Pie in the skie maybe. Hopefully it will never happen. Watch this space though....
Supply of pilots exceeds demand. Pity the poor recently qualified doctors who cant get a job either. You guys aint alone. Nobody owes you a living either.
If you succeed in making one out of it - hurrah for you.
More personal insults expected from the voice of the poor hard done pilots.
HP
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Hairyplane,
There are two problems with your argument viz.:
1. I doubt whether there are many more people on these pages who earn more than Flying Lawyer (no disrespect FL love!)
2. The crux of your argument is centred around fixed-wing airline stuff which means nothing to most of us! Different markets.
First rule of business (actually it's not the first rule but one of the first!) - understand your market!
Cheers
Whirls
There are two problems with your argument viz.:
1. I doubt whether there are many more people on these pages who earn more than Flying Lawyer (no disrespect FL love!)
2. The crux of your argument is centred around fixed-wing airline stuff which means nothing to most of us! Different markets.
First rule of business (actually it's not the first rule but one of the first!) - understand your market!
Cheers
Whirls
Gymble....
Nice troll....but certainly not a bait many would fall for. On the one hand you seem to endorse working a co-pilot for "free" and that they are a "dime a dozen"....but also suggest you have an investment in a pilot's training.
I wonder when you consider the "dime a dozen" "work for free" pilot to become a valuable asset worth investment in....and worthy of retention?
How do you make that determination? Wave a wand...peer at tea leaves....or require some sort of sexual act from the aspiring pilot?
Nice troll....but certainly not a bait many would fall for. On the one hand you seem to endorse working a co-pilot for "free" and that they are a "dime a dozen"....but also suggest you have an investment in a pilot's training.
I wonder when you consider the "dime a dozen" "work for free" pilot to become a valuable asset worth investment in....and worthy of retention?
How do you make that determination? Wave a wand...peer at tea leaves....or require some sort of sexual act from the aspiring pilot?
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In my opinion the fact that there are a lot of people out there who want to be professional pilots is obviously a good thing for the employer. They get to choose from a large selection of candidates to find the person suitable for their vacant position.
we all know suitability is not just knowledge and training but personality as well. Does the face fit?
If employers pay a fair and reasonable salary comensurate with the training, experience and dedication of the said pilots then the pilots will probably stay in their jobs longer and have a bit more loyalty to the company. The employer gets to reap the reward of any investment he has made to the pilot and everybody is happy.
If the employer treats his staff like dirt under his shoes, pays poor wages and refuses to make any investment in his staff the first thing that will happen is they will walk. If all the employers do the same then new pilots will stop coming up through the ranks, the existing ones will have a greater bargaining potential as there now will be a lack of trained pilots. the employers will have to pay well over the odds for someone who may not be entirely suitable.
So all you people out there holding the purse strings, what you sow today you reap tomorrow.
H.
we all know suitability is not just knowledge and training but personality as well. Does the face fit?
If employers pay a fair and reasonable salary comensurate with the training, experience and dedication of the said pilots then the pilots will probably stay in their jobs longer and have a bit more loyalty to the company. The employer gets to reap the reward of any investment he has made to the pilot and everybody is happy.
If the employer treats his staff like dirt under his shoes, pays poor wages and refuses to make any investment in his staff the first thing that will happen is they will walk. If all the employers do the same then new pilots will stop coming up through the ranks, the existing ones will have a greater bargaining potential as there now will be a lack of trained pilots. the employers will have to pay well over the odds for someone who may not be entirely suitable.
So all you people out there holding the purse strings, what you sow today you reap tomorrow.
H.
I never considered pilot wages a "budget" item....I considered it a factor in determining rates charged for services.
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Why are you guys falling for Gymble's rants - the nearest he has probably been to a real helicopter is watching the Discovery Channel. He loves winding you up. The clue to his delusion is the use of the word "two hard" instead of "too hard" in:-
"I will skip the details of the roster. I know that will be two hard. However I will say that all these staff members are full time."
It is such an elementary mistake that it would not surprise me if he isn't a 16 yr old product of the English education system (And he would have got a "A" in english
)
332M
"I will skip the details of the roster. I know that will be two hard. However I will say that all these staff members are full time."
It is such an elementary mistake that it would not surprise me if he isn't a 16 yr old product of the English education system (And he would have got a "A" in english
)332M
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not so easy to do a budget
Gymble, stop being a wind-up merchant otherwise the good Ppruners on here won't love you anymore and you will be tarred with the same brush as....
I'll let you all complete that sentence but we all know to whom I am referring!!
Cheers
Whirls
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Gymble,
It sounds to me like you have a problem, on many fronts, excluding your inability to spell or count.
But I bet you have the pose, the dark glasses, the big watch and the flashy car and yes, probably a small d**k and no balls too, as you think the anonymity of this forum makes you a big man!
Your kind of bean counting “manager” makes me sick.
You know what I call a 1000 of your slimey type at the bottom of the ocean ..... A good start!
So if you don't like the forum, move on and get a life!
It sounds to me like you have a problem, on many fronts, excluding your inability to spell or count.
But I bet you have the pose, the dark glasses, the big watch and the flashy car and yes, probably a small d**k and no balls too, as you think the anonymity of this forum makes you a big man!
Your kind of bean counting “manager” makes me sick.
You know what I call a 1000 of your slimey type at the bottom of the ocean ..... A good start!
So if you don't like the forum, move on and get a life!
Avoid imitations
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Gymble does it on purpose, guys and gals. Falsely concocted vitriol such as his is not worth the effort of replying because all it does is to allow him a few guffaws at your expense. Goodness knows what he is holding in his hand as he eagerly reads your answers 
But no, he isn't as bad as **#* who appears to be out there for real.
But no, he isn't as bad as **#* who appears to be out there for real.
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Well Gymble you may have your critics but your challenge post convinced me you are really in aviation management.
Because that is the only place you would find somebody taking on more work than they can handle with the staff available and then expect qualified people to come in and work for FREE just so you can have the extra revenue.
I think with your "challenge" post you have highlighted the exact problem that Mr S was illustrating in the first place.
Because that is the only place you would find somebody taking on more work than they can handle with the staff available and then expect qualified people to come in and work for FREE just so you can have the extra revenue.
I think with your "challenge" post you have highlighted the exact problem that Mr S was illustrating in the first place.