How much do helicopter pilots earn?
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Wow, where to start on this subject, the basics as i see them. In the UK we have a very niche market of people who want to fly and therefore a small amount of people required to teach them. Untill recently PPL holders could carry out the instruction at weekends to pay for their flying and supplement their income, now the instructor must have a CPL, apart from the few instructing under "grandfather rights", this pushes up the cost to the instructor to become qualified.
He is now a CPL holder and wants to earn a living flying helicopters, but who is going to pay the wage that people expect to earn as a professional pilot. You cannot pass this on to the student otherwise you alienate all but the very rich.
With helicopters the majority of the work is single pilot and you require in excess of 1000 hours before you can become usable by any operator, unless you get a FO job on the N. sea, and these are non-existant at the moment.
How do you get from a 200 hour new CPL to getting that police/air ambulance job that people want, you must instruct and unfortunatley accept that the amount of money paid per hour is distributed to DOC,s on the aircraft, Company overheads, Profit for the owner, and then something for the instructor.
It is a hard industry to gain access too and the routes are few, military or civil, selection and testing or immense determination to put yourself in hoc for huge amounts to gain your licence.
Next time you hear university students complaing about their £12000 debt for 3 years drinking then you can smirk at their easy life.
I can't figure out if i've gone off message but the words just flowed out of me.
He is now a CPL holder and wants to earn a living flying helicopters, but who is going to pay the wage that people expect to earn as a professional pilot. You cannot pass this on to the student otherwise you alienate all but the very rich.
With helicopters the majority of the work is single pilot and you require in excess of 1000 hours before you can become usable by any operator, unless you get a FO job on the N. sea, and these are non-existant at the moment.
How do you get from a 200 hour new CPL to getting that police/air ambulance job that people want, you must instruct and unfortunatley accept that the amount of money paid per hour is distributed to DOC,s on the aircraft, Company overheads, Profit for the owner, and then something for the instructor.
It is a hard industry to gain access too and the routes are few, military or civil, selection and testing or immense determination to put yourself in hoc for huge amounts to gain your licence.
Next time you hear university students complaing about their £12000 debt for 3 years drinking then you can smirk at their easy life.
I can't figure out if i've gone off message but the words just flowed out of me.
Join Date: Apr 2004
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My Electricity has just gone up by 7p a day do you think that the electricity company was worried about the fact that the customer "shouldnt have to pay the extra"
consumers always have to pay to keep companys profitable surely???
consumers always have to pay to keep companys profitable surely???
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Arguably, a union controls supply and demand, to some degree anyway...
Of course, it depends on how strong the union is... might be quite strong if it were mandatory!
(watch those flames!!)
Of course, it depends on how strong the union is... might be quite strong if it were mandatory!
(watch those flames!!)
Hovering AND talking
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Headsethair and Mr. Selfish appear to have grasped the idea. The original thread was not asking about UK instructors' pay but overall pay levels of a helicopter pilot when compared with other professions.
It is quite simple: whilst there are low-hour CPLs who are prepared to work for the square-root of diddly-squat in order to build hours, then wages will stay at the lowest level. For example, you are an operator who has a simple contract doing, say, some pleasure flying at a country show in a JetRanger. You have a choice of paying £x per hour to a 5,000 hour ATPL(H) or £y per hour to a 200 hour CPL who can do the job probably just as well (where x>y). Whadd'ya gonna do?
Right or wrong? Who's to say? If you are a high-hours ex-mil pilot, you would quite rightly wish to be paid a fair wage for the job but if you were a low-hours CPL desperate to get the stick time (and have another profession on which to fall back, as many do), what would you do? To be paid peanuts for a bit of commercial work sure beats have to pay for the hour building yourself!
Cheers
Whirlygig
It is quite simple: whilst there are low-hour CPLs who are prepared to work for the square-root of diddly-squat in order to build hours, then wages will stay at the lowest level. For example, you are an operator who has a simple contract doing, say, some pleasure flying at a country show in a JetRanger. You have a choice of paying £x per hour to a 5,000 hour ATPL(H) or £y per hour to a 200 hour CPL who can do the job probably just as well (where x>y). Whadd'ya gonna do?
Right or wrong? Who's to say? If you are a high-hours ex-mil pilot, you would quite rightly wish to be paid a fair wage for the job but if you were a low-hours CPL desperate to get the stick time (and have another profession on which to fall back, as many do), what would you do? To be paid peanuts for a bit of commercial work sure beats have to pay for the hour building yourself!
Cheers
Whirlygig
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The basic laws of supply and demand are distorted a bit when much of the business is not strictly necessary, but something of a "delete option". So [In the UK],
Offshore is necessary - there is no other practical way of moving bears around
Police and HEMS etc is probably necessary (but note in the USA local forces regularly seem to lose their Air Wing due to budget cuts and some HEMS charities struggle)
Pipeline and Line Inspections
A small amount of aerial work
Some Aerial Filming/Photography
Everything else could be done some other way (possibly slower & less enjoyably but it could be done)
This substantially weakens any industrial "strength" I suggest. If you add to that there is rarely a problem in finding a pilot, then "withdrawal of labour" doesn't seem to me to be scary for operators or customers. When offshore pilots withdrew their labour to go plank, the rates went up pretty sharpish, but that doesn't seem to be happening much now.
Offshore is necessary - there is no other practical way of moving bears around
Police and HEMS etc is probably necessary (but note in the USA local forces regularly seem to lose their Air Wing due to budget cuts and some HEMS charities struggle)
Pipeline and Line Inspections
A small amount of aerial work
Some Aerial Filming/Photography
Everything else could be done some other way (possibly slower & less enjoyably but it could be done)
This substantially weakens any industrial "strength" I suggest. If you add to that there is rarely a problem in finding a pilot, then "withdrawal of labour" doesn't seem to me to be scary for operators or customers. When offshore pilots withdrew their labour to go plank, the rates went up pretty sharpish, but that doesn't seem to be happening much now.
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Just picking up something that Heliport said; the usual pay for a helicopter flying instructor is £40 per hour, but that is per flying hour. The time spent on pre and post flight briefings often comes to over an hour, for which we do not get paid. So the average lesson is usually 2 hours long, making it £20 per hour instructional time. Wasted lessons when the student does not even bother to show up (much less apologise for it), along with preparation time and admin mean that the daily rate is bobbing along at around the national minimum wage for a days work. Makes you wonder why we bother. 
Actually had a guy call the other day and tell me he would work for "free"....in order to build his time. I thanked him for his kind offer....but he will not be working for me for "free". In our business...we have to be able to produce and untrained, inexperienced pilots can not do that. If I elect to use a pilot that is too slow to meet the needs of the customer I would have to discount my rate to be able to match his performance to the needs of the customer. The customer has just so much margin to work with as well as we do....unfortunately....training is an expense to the operator no matter how you consider it. The operator has to pay for training one way or the other....the secret is in finding a way to make it work for all parties concerned...the employee, the operator, and the customer.
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Interesting that SASless should mention pilots offering to work for free...
It's a subject that has been aired on here before, but the latest edition of APOA (UK)'s magazine General Aviation carries a very professional-looking ad for a CPL(H) seeking "unpaid hours building / experience." While, on the one hand, I admire his get-up-and-go in paying to place the advert, I can't help but think that unpaid work is not the way forward, and that potential employers would be likely to react more favourably to the same ad, but without the "unpaid" rider.
What do you think?
It's a subject that has been aired on here before, but the latest edition of APOA (UK)'s magazine General Aviation carries a very professional-looking ad for a CPL(H) seeking "unpaid hours building / experience." While, on the one hand, I admire his get-up-and-go in paying to place the advert, I can't help but think that unpaid work is not the way forward, and that potential employers would be likely to react more favourably to the same ad, but without the "unpaid" rider.
What do you think?
Join Date: Aug 2004
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I will shortly be leaving the Military with 3000hrs+ and a morgage that isn't covered by my pension, so the thought of all the available jobs being soaked up by pilots willing to fly for free scares the hell out of me.
And before you wags have a go about the fact that the Mil are supposed to have a great pension at the end - I have an Ex with a great lawyer.
And before you wags have a go about the fact that the Mil are supposed to have a great pension at the end - I have an Ex with a great lawyer.
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If the low-timer (or pensioned military pilot) wants to take the high road, they should refuse to work until the wage offer is sufficient. However, all low timers must be in agreement about what the "sufficient" wage is so they don't accidently undercut each other.
Also they need a source of income to tide them over until the pilot shortage becomes real enough to force employers to offer these sufficient wages. This source of income comes from...
...perhaps a little contribution from the working pilots who are enjoying a higher wage due to the shortage and the increased available overtime?
Hmmm, collective bargaining, employee contributions to a support fund, striking for better wages, where have I seen that before?
Also they need a source of income to tide them over until the pilot shortage becomes real enough to force employers to offer these sufficient wages. This source of income comes from...
...perhaps a little contribution from the working pilots who are enjoying a higher wage due to the shortage and the increased available overtime?
Hmmm, collective bargaining, employee contributions to a support fund, striking for better wages, where have I seen that before?
Join Date: May 2001
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someone needs to point out to this idiot that when he has worked for free to build his hours up he then can't get a job because some other bozo is now working for nothing.
Same applies to the idiots who PAY to fly the flying eye.
I've said it before and I'll keep sying it. These employers will laugh all the way to the bank!
Same applies to the idiots who PAY to fly the flying eye.
I've said it before and I'll keep sying it. These employers will laugh all the way to the bank!
inditrees,
If you are after Police work PremiAir have just got the PSNI contract and are looking for pilots. We are always looking for pilots for other units in England.
PM me or contact Captain Jim Laird on 01895 830930 or go to www.premiair-aviation.com
Regards,
FNW.
If you are after Police work PremiAir have just got the PSNI contract and are looking for pilots. We are always looking for pilots for other units in England.
PM me or contact Captain Jim Laird on 01895 830930 or go to www.premiair-aviation.com
Regards,
FNW.
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Rates of Pay
I am after some help, I am a CPL and instructor working freelance at a reasonably busy training organisation. We will be carrying out AOC work as of this year. I am interested in what the general format is for being paid as the pilot, and how much, ie:
By the flying hour, or
by the duty hour, or
daily or half daily rates
By the flying hour, or
by the duty hour, or
daily or half daily rates
Guest
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Don’t sell yourself short. Make sure your employer provides all meals and accommodation. It is unreasonable to expect actual cash.
Insist on a hot evening meal. Cold meat and salad is the industry standard lunch. Don’t be greedy and ask for Coco Pops for breakfast! Fresh bread and milk ever second day is expectable.
Do yourself a favour and make yourself useful in the hangar between jobs. You don’t expect to be fed for just a couple of flying hour per day do you?
As a rule of thumb, if you gain weight during your employ you have not been pulling your weight.
$100.00/h or $325.00/day Dreaming!!
Insist on a hot evening meal. Cold meat and salad is the industry standard lunch. Don’t be greedy and ask for Coco Pops for breakfast! Fresh bread and milk ever second day is expectable.
Do yourself a favour and make yourself useful in the hangar between jobs. You don’t expect to be fed for just a couple of flying hour per day do you?
As a rule of thumb, if you gain weight during your employ you have not been pulling your weight.
$100.00/h or $325.00/day Dreaming!!
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In the UK in the freelance ad-hoc charter game, one of the key steps is to get paid for your time spent, rather than the amount of flying you do. One or two "astute" operators pay by the flying hour, but this makes a nonsense from the pilot's viewpoint. You can spend a whole day away and just fly for 1 hour (indeed much of charter work is rather like that). It might just be OK to be paid a flying hour rate, if your AOC work was fitted around a stream of flying training. This can work for a while, but my experience shows that once you get established in the AOC game, it becomes increasingly difficult to combine mainstream instructing and charter.
A pretty standard day rate (VFR/SE) would be around £250 per day. Perhaps a little less for piston or without much experience. I offer a half day rate too, where I am able to make use of the rest of the day to do something else. You can get some interesting jobs that way.
My experience is that all "on the job" expenses are paid for by the operator - mind you if they choose the accommodation you can end up in some "interesting" places. Unless you live close to where the operator is based, you can easily spend as much time in in your car as in a helicopter - "travel to work costs" will usually be at your expense.
Rates can legitimately vary from this: depending upon who pays for recurrency training, for example. There will also be a variation depending upon where in the country you are and what other opportunities there are to exercise your expensively acquired skills.
Good Luck!
A pretty standard day rate (VFR/SE) would be around £250 per day. Perhaps a little less for piston or without much experience. I offer a half day rate too, where I am able to make use of the rest of the day to do something else. You can get some interesting jobs that way.
My experience is that all "on the job" expenses are paid for by the operator - mind you if they choose the accommodation you can end up in some "interesting" places. Unless you live close to where the operator is based, you can easily spend as much time in in your car as in a helicopter - "travel to work costs" will usually be at your expense.
Rates can legitimately vary from this: depending upon who pays for recurrency training, for example. There will also be a variation depending upon where in the country you are and what other opportunities there are to exercise your expensively acquired skills.
Good Luck!
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Some good info,
can any one tell me what the going rate is for heli instructors FI(R) in UK is at the mo? Thanks:
Its a mine field and for us "young ens" with not so many hours i think its easy to be taken advantage of.??
can any one tell me what the going rate is for heli instructors FI(R) in UK is at the mo? Thanks:
Its a mine field and for us "young ens" with not so many hours i think its easy to be taken advantage of.??
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Uk Instructor rate
I asked this of an instructor I had a trial lesson with a few weeks back. He said most places pay £40 per hour, but of course for each hour flying you do an extra hour for pre and post-flight briefings. You also don't get paid for teaching groundschool. He reckoned at his school instructors get between 30 and 60 paid hours per month dependent on season, averaging out at around 45 per year. So, that's a shade under £22k.
Apparently some places still also pay a small salary retainer on top of that, but it's rare and those that do are looking to scrap it for new hires. Plus side is the retainer usually stipulates you can't work for anybody else barr that school, where as if you're only paid for the hour you're free to work elsewhere when that school has no work for you. (Though it's frowned upon if the're based at the same airfield.)
Please note I am not (yet) a practicing instructor, this is all second-hand info and maybe incorrect or inapplicable to many companies.
Si
Apparently some places still also pay a small salary retainer on top of that, but it's rare and those that do are looking to scrap it for new hires. Plus side is the retainer usually stipulates you can't work for anybody else barr that school, where as if you're only paid for the hour you're free to work elsewhere when that school has no work for you. (Though it's frowned upon if the're based at the same airfield.)
Please note I am not (yet) a practicing instructor, this is all second-hand info and maybe incorrect or inapplicable to many companies.
Si
