Becoming an Instructor & related FI questions
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hi
see this way....
under FAA, for you to start you CFI (certified flight insctructor) trainning , must at least, more than 18year old and a commercial certificate (see § 61.183 Eligibility requirements )
so, technally, and in reallity, a person, can after finished is commercial (intrument ratting normally goes with a CFII , certified flight intreument instructor) start a instrcutor course, and after that, start working as a flight instructor
in fact, this is the way, to build hours to a better job (plane guy's go the same route...) ou someone know's a better (with better means commercial operation, payment... etc..) ??
ok, maybe this put's the question, "his this fresh instructors (when associatesd to low timer's in helis) good instructors... ?? "
that i think will have many opinions.... and different ones...
but if you look, that all high time pilots (experienced ones) plus with an instructor rating prefer (mayority) to work commercial, instead of instructiong... (who blame thems .... ) you will see, that right now, the "system" for Civilian Starting 0 hours Heli-Pilots, to gain experience (hours) is to start instructing (whennever they are good pilots and / or good instrucors)
(the unique requiremnt that i'm remebering now, for instructing, is the SFAR 73 or something like that, expecifically for robinson instruction, that requieres at least 200hrs of helicopets with some (can find the sfar, if you want..) in a R22 or R44....
in europe, with JAA, this is a little more difficult, because the requirements of hours/experience is a little different...
what i see, with this possible chance, is that "maybe" there was some "pressure", because, for one side the difficult so low timers/fresh finishers to build up hours in com.ops other than flying instruction, since the other side, is that most experienced pilots (or when arrive to a more or less experienced level) "jump" to com.ops...
but, as many other things with JAA (now EASA, i think, or something like that..) it will take time, to be done...
meanwhile, to be a instructor under JAA, you will be required to a level of experience , that if you have, "maybe you don't want to be a instructor in fisrt place.."
this is a resume, of my point of view, how the things in flight instructiont/build experience go.... i'm NOT entering in the discussion if it is good or not....
and if you know, other ways to go around (build experience thing)
i think that will be many interestd in...
sorry my english...
cheers
see this way....
under FAA, for you to start you CFI (certified flight insctructor) trainning , must at least, more than 18year old and a commercial certificate (see § 61.183 Eligibility requirements )
so, technally, and in reallity, a person, can after finished is commercial (intrument ratting normally goes with a CFII , certified flight intreument instructor) start a instrcutor course, and after that, start working as a flight instructor
in fact, this is the way, to build hours to a better job (plane guy's go the same route...) ou someone know's a better (with better means commercial operation, payment... etc..) ??
ok, maybe this put's the question, "his this fresh instructors (when associatesd to low timer's in helis) good instructors... ?? "
that i think will have many opinions.... and different ones...
but if you look, that all high time pilots (experienced ones) plus with an instructor rating prefer (mayority) to work commercial, instead of instructiong... (who blame thems .... ) you will see, that right now, the "system" for Civilian Starting 0 hours Heli-Pilots, to gain experience (hours) is to start instructing (whennever they are good pilots and / or good instrucors)
(the unique requiremnt that i'm remebering now, for instructing, is the SFAR 73 or something like that, expecifically for robinson instruction, that requieres at least 200hrs of helicopets with some (can find the sfar, if you want..) in a R22 or R44....
in europe, with JAA, this is a little more difficult, because the requirements of hours/experience is a little different...
what i see, with this possible chance, is that "maybe" there was some "pressure", because, for one side the difficult so low timers/fresh finishers to build up hours in com.ops other than flying instruction, since the other side, is that most experienced pilots (or when arrive to a more or less experienced level) "jump" to com.ops...
but, as many other things with JAA (now EASA, i think, or something like that..) it will take time, to be done...
meanwhile, to be a instructor under JAA, you will be required to a level of experience , that if you have, "maybe you don't want to be a instructor in fisrt place.."
this is a resume, of my point of view, how the things in flight instructiont/build experience go.... i'm NOT entering in the discussion if it is good or not....
and if you know, other ways to go around (build experience thing)
i think that will be many interestd in...
sorry my english...
cheers
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Rotary Instructors - a question regarding unremunerated FIs
Know this one's been done a lot on the instructors & private pilots forum, but I'm curious as to whether it goes on in the rotary world:
Are, because of inability to get a class one medical, (or any other reasons), there any rotary instructors out there who instruct unremunerated, just because it's their ambition?
This goes on in the fixed wing world, but with the expense of rotary training, does it ever go on in this one?
Any input would be interesting
Are, because of inability to get a class one medical, (or any other reasons), there any rotary instructors out there who instruct unremunerated, just because it's their ambition?
This goes on in the fixed wing world, but with the expense of rotary training, does it ever go on in this one?
Any input would be interesting
Last edited by G_STRING; 4th Aug 2004 at 12:16.
The Original Whirly
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Well, I'm just about making enough to cover expenses of getting to the airfield(s), Class 1 medicals etc. So not quite unrenumerated...and might pick up the future.
So, are you saying that in the UK, somebody without a valid licence or qualification can teach??
In Oz, if you aren't qualified, you don't do it. Somebody might do a little unofficial instruction, but the recipient can't log the time and it wouldn't count towards the hours, and if found out it would be big trouble.
How do your fixed-wing people get away with it??
In Oz, if you aren't qualified, you don't do it. Somebody might do a little unofficial instruction, but the recipient can't log the time and it wouldn't count towards the hours, and if found out it would be big trouble.
How do your fixed-wing people get away with it??
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you don't need a class 1 medical, to give instruction... plus, this doens't mean that you aren't qualified....
tottaly unrenumerated, don't know, but like Whirlybird said, know a few....
tottaly unrenumerated, don't know, but like Whirlybird said, know a few....
PPRuNe Enigma
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Well, it's an option that I have been considering. The situation in the UK is weird. You do still need to have the proper instructor training and qualifications but as I understand it, you can instruct without a Class 1 medical if you do so unremunerated.
Ascend: Oz may be different but then I'd have no difficulty getting an Australian Class 1 anyway so for me the problem wouldn't arise.
I love flying and I also love teaching, so it would make sense from that point of view, if not from an economic one. Having been lucky and fortunate enough to have been flying helicopters for ten years, it would be really nice to give something back. Plus, of course, one of the best ways to continue to learn and improve your own skills at doing something is to teach it.
Two reasons that would make me reluctant to do so - firstly, would there be insurance implications, and secondly I wouldn't want to take work away from other instructors like Whirly who are working hard to make a living out of it.
Still looking for options though - I've got a couple of ideas that I'm working on at the moment, so I too would be interested in experiences from anyone in a similar situation.
What's your own position, G_STRING ?
Ascend: Oz may be different but then I'd have no difficulty getting an Australian Class 1 anyway so for me the problem wouldn't arise.
I love flying and I also love teaching, so it would make sense from that point of view, if not from an economic one. Having been lucky and fortunate enough to have been flying helicopters for ten years, it would be really nice to give something back. Plus, of course, one of the best ways to continue to learn and improve your own skills at doing something is to teach it.
Two reasons that would make me reluctant to do so - firstly, would there be insurance implications, and secondly I wouldn't want to take work away from other instructors like Whirly who are working hard to make a living out of it.
Still looking for options though - I've got a couple of ideas that I'm working on at the moment, so I too would be interested in experiences from anyone in a similar situation.
What's your own position, G_STRING ?
The Original Whirly
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The situtation in the UK is that you need a CPL in order to accept remuneration (ie be paid). To get a CPL, you need a Class 1 medical. However, you can be an instructor if you demonstrate CPL knowledge (ie do the ground exams) and do the FI course. But you can't be paid. Make sense? Don't ask! 
Grainger,
Do what you want to do. I only ever planned to instruct part time; the day job is OK, pays better, and isn't weather and medical dependent. I'd like to do a little more than break even, but breaking even is OK; I can survive. I just can't afford to keep paying to fly helicopters. But I've had at least one instructor get annoyed at me for taking the work from people who need to do it fulltime...the words "taking the bread out of my mouth" were used, honestly. Is it my fault he gave up his other job, before he knew that he could make a living from instructing? I work 7 day weeks sometimes, but it's my choice. Anyway, I keep quiet now. So, Grainger and anyone else, if you want to do unpaid instructing, good luck to you.
But I'd suggest you keep very very quiet about it to your colleagues.
Now, I've gone and opened up that whole can of worms again, haven't I?
Grainger,
Do what you want to do. I only ever planned to instruct part time; the day job is OK, pays better, and isn't weather and medical dependent. I'd like to do a little more than break even, but breaking even is OK; I can survive. I just can't afford to keep paying to fly helicopters. But I've had at least one instructor get annoyed at me for taking the work from people who need to do it fulltime...the words "taking the bread out of my mouth" were used, honestly. Is it my fault he gave up his other job, before he knew that he could make a living from instructing? I work 7 day weeks sometimes, but it's my choice. Anyway, I keep quiet now. So, Grainger and anyone else, if you want to do unpaid instructing, good luck to you.
But I'd suggest you keep very very quiet about it to your colleagues.Now, I've gone and opened up that whole can of worms again, haven't I?
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Instructing can be great when you get a motivated student with some talent but lets face it for new pilots you spend loads of cash to fly for a living, and then what happens you sit there and watch someone else fly torture or what.
I have been doing it for about 2 years some days it's great some days it's not, doing some other flying I think is a must else you are going to get bored.
Just a quicky how meny peeps teach engine offs to the ground?
I have been doing it for about 2 years some days it's great some days it's not, doing some other flying I think is a must else you are going to get bored.
Just a quicky how meny peeps teach engine offs to the ground?
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I am sure that there are many good 250 hr pilots who have been trained by GOOD instructors BUT I still have a problem with the concept that a 250 (+50??) hr pilot will have the background and the REAL COMMERCIAL OPERATING experience to be able to pass on to a new chum the tricks of the trade. Heli ops arn't like fixed wing ops.
As probably all of the "high time" Instructors reading this might attest teaching a new chum how to keep it the "right way up" is the the easier (?) bit .... then you really have to set the "this will keep you alive and in one piece" processes in place .... and that is where the years of experience come into it.
Good luck all the same ....
As probably all of the "high time" Instructors reading this might attest teaching a new chum how to keep it the "right way up" is the the easier (?) bit .... then you really have to set the "this will keep you alive and in one piece" processes in place .... and that is where the years of experience come into it.
Good luck all the same ....
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Engine Offs to the ground are a must, they are part of the sylabus and not anly that they are the most important part of a real engine failure scenario. What is the point of carrying out a fantastic auto entry, Mayday call, and carry out all the tricks of the trade if you do not know how to land. There should be some safety requirment built into the training so i will not do engine offs in less than 10 kts of wind.
I f there are any doubts about personal competency then see your chief pilot ar instructor and go and practice some for half an hour.
P.S. expect the unexpected from you students.
I f there are any doubts about personal competency then see your chief pilot ar instructor and go and practice some for half an hour.
P.S. expect the unexpected from you students.
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I had a great time instructing. It was my first job after completing my training. It makes life easier if you are flying in Arizona though!
If you are going to instruct, make sure you put the same level of commitment into it as you would into any other job - your student deserves it and it may save his life to have been taught by someone who gave their best every time.
Instructing taught me alot about the aircraft and about my ability to deconstruct a manoeuvre to help teach it.
About full down autos - In the States when I was there, all autos were taught to a power recovery hover. When I came to do them to the surface I had no problem with the last 3 feet!
I would ask the question - is it really necessary to push your luck each time you do it? With small, piston types, as long as you arrive at 3 feet with very little forward airspeed and lots of rrpm you will walk away - a good day!
If you are going to instruct, make sure you put the same level of commitment into it as you would into any other job - your student deserves it and it may save his life to have been taught by someone who gave their best every time.
Instructing taught me alot about the aircraft and about my ability to deconstruct a manoeuvre to help teach it.
About full down autos - In the States when I was there, all autos were taught to a power recovery hover. When I came to do them to the surface I had no problem with the last 3 feet!
I would ask the question - is it really necessary to push your luck each time you do it? With small, piston types, as long as you arrive at 3 feet with very little forward airspeed and lots of rrpm you will walk away - a good day!
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Grainger.
I'm in the uneviable position of really wanting to become a career instructor, but can't get the illusive class 1 medical.
I feel similar to you in that I love flying helis (still an amazing feeling), have been hourbuilding, and would love to 'put something back' into the system.
I'd be quite happy to do it the way Whirly suggests; CPL writtens, FI course, and class 2 (Thanks by the way Whirly, for your information), but no remuneration.
But again, same as yourself, would be worried about how this would be percieved. Obviously, you could keep it quiet from other instructors, but the SCHOOL would need to know.
What sort of a view would they take on this. (Any heli schools out there with an opinion on this one)??
G_STRING
I'm in the uneviable position of really wanting to become a career instructor, but can't get the illusive class 1 medical.
I feel similar to you in that I love flying helis (still an amazing feeling), have been hourbuilding, and would love to 'put something back' into the system.
I'd be quite happy to do it the way Whirly suggests; CPL writtens, FI course, and class 2 (Thanks by the way Whirly, for your information), but no remuneration.
But again, same as yourself, would be worried about how this would be percieved. Obviously, you could keep it quiet from other instructors, but the SCHOOL would need to know.
What sort of a view would they take on this. (Any heli schools out there with an opinion on this one)??
G_STRING
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Following on from last question - re rotary instructors...
Following on from my 'instructors - a question...' post.
How old is 'too old', when it comes to starting a career as a rotary instructor? I'm 40 now, & imagine, (medical permitting), it would take a few years to get through the CPL and the FI course.
REALLY want to do this, so input much appreciated
G_STRING
How old is 'too old', when it comes to starting a career as a rotary instructor? I'm 40 now, & imagine, (medical permitting), it would take a few years to get through the CPL and the FI course.
REALLY want to do this, so input much appreciated
G_STRING
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preposterous!
What has the world come to? We're afraid to donate our time to our sport/hobby/vocation because of implied criticism by our peers? Balderdash, I say!
If a doctor donates his time to indigenous medical services, at home or abroad, does he get flak from other doctors who were hoping to someday get around to doctoring the part of the world they haven't done yet? If a teacher donates time to educating the disabled, do they get crank phone calls from other teachers?
If you want to fly, and the idiotic bureaucratic irrelevant government's arbitrary restrictions prevent you from receiving remuneration, then for God's sake, FLY! Let the unioneers and whiners go after the government, instead--it is, after all, the government's fault/error/irrelevancy/stupidity that created the problem with how we pursue life and liberty!!!
Dave
Donating Flt Instruction Any Time I Want To!
If a doctor donates his time to indigenous medical services, at home or abroad, does he get flak from other doctors who were hoping to someday get around to doctoring the part of the world they haven't done yet? If a teacher donates time to educating the disabled, do they get crank phone calls from other teachers?
If you want to fly, and the idiotic bureaucratic irrelevant government's arbitrary restrictions prevent you from receiving remuneration, then for God's sake, FLY! Let the unioneers and whiners go after the government, instead--it is, after all, the government's fault/error/irrelevancy/stupidity that created the problem with how we pursue life and liberty!!!
Dave
Donating Flt Instruction Any Time I Want To!
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definitely too old
Ooops, 40, well now, you know, we all have to be established in our careers by age 25 in order to get ahead and be of any use . . . just look at all the employment fallout from the dot.com industry, all those old folks fired at 30 because they were obsolete.
Less tongue in cheek: I got tired of f/w and seriously moved into rotary a couple of years ago. Decided to take it seriously and moved on up to Flight Instructor this summer, almost instantaneously took a position as Chief Flight Instructor for a fair-sized school in Florida. Soon CFII-H. But you can't be doing this sort of thing when you get old, quite improper, takes the money out of REAL workers' mouths, etc.
Oh, by the way, I recently turned 66. And I do this for fun (although they ALSO pay me fairly well), having already made retirement in the corporate f/w jet world.
Less tongue in cheek: I got tired of f/w and seriously moved into rotary a couple of years ago. Decided to take it seriously and moved on up to Flight Instructor this summer, almost instantaneously took a position as Chief Flight Instructor for a fair-sized school in Florida. Soon CFII-H. But you can't be doing this sort of thing when you get old, quite improper, takes the money out of REAL workers' mouths, etc.
Oh, by the way, I recently turned 66. And I do this for fun (although they ALSO pay me fairly well), having already made retirement in the corporate f/w jet world.
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Pa 42
Thanks for the lighthearted, (and serious!) reply. Good to know that you did what you did WHEN you wanted to do it.
Made good reading, and made me feel a hell of a lot better
Thanks
Thanks for the lighthearted, (and serious!) reply. Good to know that you did what you did WHEN you wanted to do it.
Made good reading, and made me feel a hell of a lot better
Thanks
The Original Whirly
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G_STRING,
I was older than you before I ever considered setting foot inside a helicopter...don't ask by how much; haven't you noticed that this lady NEVER gives away her age.
But those who've met me know that I'm not the sweet young thing I sometimes pretend to be. 
This isn't a second career for me; it's about the sixth! There are no age limits for instructing, so long as you can pass medicals...and Class 1 if you want to be paid. And in practice it doesn't seem to be an issue in the instructing world. I'm planning on carry on till I'm 90...so long as I can still climb into a helicopter. You, my friend, are just a kid...so stop worrying. And I agree with pa42; who cares what anyone else thinks; if you want to instruct, go for it!
I was older than you before I ever considered setting foot inside a helicopter...don't ask by how much; haven't you noticed that this lady NEVER gives away her age.
But those who've met me know that I'm not the sweet young thing I sometimes pretend to be. This isn't a second career for me; it's about the sixth! There are no age limits for instructing, so long as you can pass medicals...and Class 1 if you want to be paid. And in practice it doesn't seem to be an issue in the instructing world. I'm planning on carry on till I'm 90...so long as I can still climb into a helicopter. You, my friend, are just a kid...so stop worrying. And I agree with pa42; who cares what anyone else thinks; if you want to instruct, go for it!
PPRuNe Enigma
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Hey G-STRING; I'm 43 now and don't see that as any sort of impediment. At least twenty good years in me yet and I hope many more than that !
Let me ask you a question: how old will you be in five years' time if you don't follow your dream of instructing ? That's right: the same.
Let me ask you a question: how old will you be in five years' time if you don't follow your dream of instructing ? That's right: the same.
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Thanks very much for all your responses - Whirly, you sound a rather formidable and determine lady, all good luck to you.
Feel rather better after reading the posts, but the one thing I'm really curious about, (as I said earlier), is how will the SCHOOLS themselves react to an instructor minus a class 1 medical?
I originally wanted to instruct in the fixed wing world, where this sort of thing is, if not common, MORE common I'm sure, than the rotary world.
However, after introducting myself to helicopters, I'm completely hooked, and know that this is what I want.
So, if there are any schools / proprietors, etc.. out there reading this, please give me your input!
Thanks
Feel rather better after reading the posts, but the one thing I'm really curious about, (as I said earlier), is how will the SCHOOLS themselves react to an instructor minus a class 1 medical?
I originally wanted to instruct in the fixed wing world, where this sort of thing is, if not common, MORE common I'm sure, than the rotary world.
However, after introducting myself to helicopters, I'm completely hooked, and know that this is what I want.
So, if there are any schools / proprietors, etc.. out there reading this, please give me your input!
Thanks