Becoming an Instructor & related FI questions
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Canada
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Congratulations Whirly!
On being nervous ; I've been doing check rides for 25 years and I'm still a basket case until the before take-off check is completed. Once in the air I'm OK.
Best of luck instructing.
IHL
On being nervous ; I've been doing check rides for 25 years and I'm still a basket case until the before take-off check is completed. Once in the air I'm OK.
Best of luck instructing.
IHL
The Original Whirly
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
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Thanks everyone. To fill in a few gaps...after a week or so when I really couldn't even bear to think about it all, I knew I was going to have another crack at it. I started re-learning the theory stuff slowly, an hour or two a day...all I had actually since I have to earn a living occasionally. 
I went flying once to remind myself it was fun, a second time with an instructor so I could practise giving back a few exercises, then to a fly-in because...I wanted to go. I was supposed to practise EOLs with an instructor, but we had to pack it in as I wasn't feeling well and my coordination was crap...it was actually a flu-type bug that I spent the whole week in Thruxton trying to shake off, but I seemed to be able to fly by then. I kept fairly quiet about doing it; in fact hardly anyone knew. I'd arranged fairly early on to go back to Thruxton straight after Easter; I allowed two weeks for the whole thing, but ended up with three days flying, a drive to Wellesbourne on the Thursday night, and the test on Friday. We started at 10am and finally finished the paperwork etc just after 6pm!!!! Then I drove the nearly 100 miles home in the Friday evening traffic. Hmmm...no wonder I was tired.
Anyway, no job as yet, so I can't start a thread about it, even if I wanted to, and I'm not sure about any more live threads. But a few possibilities, so I'm hopeful...
I went flying once to remind myself it was fun, a second time with an instructor so I could practise giving back a few exercises, then to a fly-in because...I wanted to go. I was supposed to practise EOLs with an instructor, but we had to pack it in as I wasn't feeling well and my coordination was crap...it was actually a flu-type bug that I spent the whole week in Thruxton trying to shake off, but I seemed to be able to fly by then. I kept fairly quiet about doing it; in fact hardly anyone knew. I'd arranged fairly early on to go back to Thruxton straight after Easter; I allowed two weeks for the whole thing, but ended up with three days flying, a drive to Wellesbourne on the Thursday night, and the test on Friday. We started at 10am and finally finished the paperwork etc just after 6pm!!!! Then I drove the nearly 100 miles home in the Friday evening traffic. Hmmm...no wonder I was tired.Anyway, no job as yet, so I can't start a thread about it, even if I wanted to, and I'm not sure about any more live threads. But a few possibilities, so I'm hopeful...
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Germany
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Congratulations Whirly !
I just came back to PPRune after some weeks of absence and catched your thread just to see that you passed. After reading your diary you really deserved it. I press my thumb for you to get into 'business'. I am sure your students will have a lot of fun learning how to fly with you on the left hand seat.
Cheers!
I just came back to PPRune after some weeks of absence and catched your thread just to see that you passed. After reading your diary you really deserved it. I press my thumb for you to get into 'business'. I am sure your students will have a lot of fun learning how to fly with you on the left hand seat.
Cheers!
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Above and Below Zero Lat. [Presently at least]
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Ok..enough is enough............
Amoungst the youngsters perhaps I'm a dinosaur..............but.
With guys and gals being shot down in combat being screened nightly on TV.......the normal every day demanding foul weather of the North Sea with Gals and Guys doing Rig Radar Approaches in the crappiest of weather and back via an ILS......the gals and gals in the GOM doing day and night flights also in crappy weather, not to mention folk downunder in Oz and NZ doing EMS all over the country. And our friends in the old USSR doing it hard with old iron workhorses.
But never a self indulgent moment being spoken, no not a one.
There are milestones in each aviators career, the QFI, is just the beginning.........most are done with grit, study and determination.....and most done in silence.
Be that good or bad...who knows?
I hope that this thread follows the norm......which I feel it must.
With guys and gals being shot down in combat being screened nightly on TV.......the normal every day demanding foul weather of the North Sea with Gals and Guys doing Rig Radar Approaches in the crappiest of weather and back via an ILS......the gals and gals in the GOM doing day and night flights also in crappy weather, not to mention folk downunder in Oz and NZ doing EMS all over the country. And our friends in the old USSR doing it hard with old iron workhorses.
But never a self indulgent moment being spoken, no not a one.
There are milestones in each aviators career, the QFI, is just the beginning.........most are done with grit, study and determination.....and most done in silence.
Be that good or bad...who knows?
I hope that this thread follows the norm......which I feel it must.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: JAA land
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Well done Whirlybird,
i think you are a very good writer, without questions a very interesting woman and i'm shure you will go your own way. But sometimes i agree with OMR. To prepare your own website or newsgroup could be a nice trial. All interested ppruners could visit the page and read your steps into the biz.
Don't misunderstand me, but what's the next? A diary about your first student? The daily real questions and problems with customers, the weather, the boss, the helo's, maintenance, environment, next ratings and of course all the good and beautiful moments, shortly the alldays live of thousends of ppruners? Your way is a hard way, but you will go above all the steps, like all the others before.
You could have enough advices from the friends around you and you don't need the whole world to spot you.
i think you are a very good writer, without questions a very interesting woman and i'm shure you will go your own way. But sometimes i agree with OMR. To prepare your own website or newsgroup could be a nice trial. All interested ppruners could visit the page and read your steps into the biz.
Don't misunderstand me, but what's the next? A diary about your first student? The daily real questions and problems with customers, the weather, the boss, the helo's, maintenance, environment, next ratings and of course all the good and beautiful moments, shortly the alldays live of thousends of ppruners? Your way is a hard way, but you will go above all the steps, like all the others before.
You could have enough advices from the friends around you and you don't need the whole world to spot you.
Join Date: Feb 2000
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Old Man Rotor.....at last some perspective on this thread...
whilst not wanting to appear a wet blanket, and wishing WB all the best, I've been finding this whole thread a little over the top.
call me an old cynic, but I can certainly attest to the fact that I and many (if not all) of my colleagues have never had this sort of praise heaped upon us throughout all the milestones and testing times of our professional careers, despite passing many military and civilian flight tests first time with no problems.
and all we get now is a knife in the back if we get it wrong....the reality of professional aviation.
lets have a little perspective.......
(...prepares for barrage of indignant abuse).
whilst not wanting to appear a wet blanket, and wishing WB all the best, I've been finding this whole thread a little over the top.
call me an old cynic, but I can certainly attest to the fact that I and many (if not all) of my colleagues have never had this sort of praise heaped upon us throughout all the milestones and testing times of our professional careers, despite passing many military and civilian flight tests first time with no problems.
and all we get now is a knife in the back if we get it wrong....the reality of professional aviation.
lets have a little perspective.......
(...prepares for barrage of indignant abuse).
If people didn't talk about what they'd done in aviation Pprune would be a bit dull! And if people didn't want to read about it, WH Smiths wouldn't be full of aviation magazines.
I suspect from her later posts that Whirly may agree with you that the constant posts didn't necessarily do her any good, but it's not out of order to congratulate somebody for achieving something - whether it's a license, rating, marriage, baby or medal if they'd had to do some work towards it. It just happens that on PPrune we tend to restrict the praise for people who have achieved aviation goals.
Also many PPruners know each other as friends and colleagues and like to know what each other are up to.
I don't share Whirly's specific goals but have enjoyed reading about her aiming for them, just as I've no particular desire to be Prime Minister but enjoyed John Major's autobiography. Reading both was of-course entirely optional on my part.
(Remarkably little mention of Edwina Curry in both).
G
I suspect from her later posts that Whirly may agree with you that the constant posts didn't necessarily do her any good, but it's not out of order to congratulate somebody for achieving something - whether it's a license, rating, marriage, baby or medal if they'd had to do some work towards it. It just happens that on PPrune we tend to restrict the praise for people who have achieved aviation goals.
Also many PPruners know each other as friends and colleagues and like to know what each other are up to.
I don't share Whirly's specific goals but have enjoyed reading about her aiming for them, just as I've no particular desire to be Prime Minister but enjoyed John Major's autobiography. Reading both was of-course entirely optional on my part.
(Remarkably little mention of Edwina Curry in both).
G
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 18 Degrees North
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is there really an instructor shortage ?
hey,
anecdotal evidence tells me that there is now an instructor shortage in the UK, due to JAR closing the PPL + instructor rating route which I came through on myself.
In fact I heard of one person recently doing his FI(H) course who was being phoned up by a couple of training schools trying to recruit him before he even qualified.
how different from my day (late 1990's) and particularly about the year 2000 when there were 10 AFI(H)'s on every street corner or so it seemed and it was hard to get the first break.
and when I did get a break it was very slow building hours and experience, and I felt like I was percieved to a degree as a "scummy AFI" because there were so many of us chasing positions, where we did excessive hours at work for insufficent rewards (or so it felt at the time)
of course during 2001 CHC and Bristows hired a good number depleting the training schools, also there doesnt seem to be that many during instructor courses under JAR, because of the CPL and 300 hour requirement and I guess the £60k total spend or so required.
1) but hard evidence wise, is there really a shortage or were we just used to a glut and now it is more normal ?
2) if schools try and recruit what is their experience regarding availablity and quality of applicants compared to the recent past ?
3)will the status of for example the R22 instructor increase now, if they are in fact a bit rarerer (if thats a word!) and with that the pay £40 an hour for about the last 15 years as far as I can tell.
interested to hear the real situation on the ground !
anecdotal evidence tells me that there is now an instructor shortage in the UK, due to JAR closing the PPL + instructor rating route which I came through on myself.
In fact I heard of one person recently doing his FI(H) course who was being phoned up by a couple of training schools trying to recruit him before he even qualified.
how different from my day (late 1990's) and particularly about the year 2000 when there were 10 AFI(H)'s on every street corner or so it seemed and it was hard to get the first break.
and when I did get a break it was very slow building hours and experience, and I felt like I was percieved to a degree as a "scummy AFI" because there were so many of us chasing positions, where we did excessive hours at work for insufficent rewards (or so it felt at the time)
of course during 2001 CHC and Bristows hired a good number depleting the training schools, also there doesnt seem to be that many during instructor courses under JAR, because of the CPL and 300 hour requirement and I guess the £60k total spend or so required.
1) but hard evidence wise, is there really a shortage or were we just used to a glut and now it is more normal ?
2) if schools try and recruit what is their experience regarding availablity and quality of applicants compared to the recent past ?
3)will the status of for example the R22 instructor increase now, if they are in fact a bit rarerer (if thats a word!) and with that the pay £40 an hour for about the last 15 years as far as I can tell.
interested to hear the real situation on the ground !
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Hi,
I think there is a shortage (in places). I have just finished an instructors course, the other guy on the course got a full time job within two days of finishing. I'm still looking but that sort of news makes me hopeful.
(I live in Hampshire, will travel, HINT! HINT!)
Seriously though, I think there are less people prepared to shell out 300hrs worth of cash plus 30hr FI course etc etc. I'm not sure R22 instructors will gain more status but you never know!
Rev
I think there is a shortage (in places). I have just finished an instructors course, the other guy on the course got a full time job within two days of finishing. I'm still looking but that sort of news makes me hopeful.
(I live in Hampshire, will travel, HINT! HINT!)
Seriously though, I think there are less people prepared to shell out 300hrs worth of cash plus 30hr FI course etc etc. I'm not sure R22 instructors will gain more status but you never know!
Rev
Join Date: May 2003
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FI course, what is required?
Does anyone of you out there know what the JAR-FCL2 requires in terms of hours before an CPL H or PPL H holder can commence a flight instructor course?
For the aeroplanes I´ve heard that a newly qualified commercial pilot (aeroplane) with approx 200 hours can commence FI training - so I took a look at the JARs and found out that for rotary (JAR-FCL2 that is) there requirements are much higher i terms of flown hours. Can this be correct, or does my JAR-reading skills suck?
Kates
For the aeroplanes I´ve heard that a newly qualified commercial pilot (aeroplane) with approx 200 hours can commence FI training - so I took a look at the JARs and found out that for rotary (JAR-FCL2 that is) there requirements are much higher i terms of flown hours. Can this be correct, or does my JAR-reading skills suck?
Kates
In the UK, it's 300 hours plus a 30 hour course at an approved organisation. Plus, if you're going to do the FI course, you need to already have a CPL if you want to get paid for it as well.
Join Date: Apr 2003
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every time someone asks a question like this, the answers people get are always are always interpretations of the requirements. which may or may not be accurate or out of date.
I think we should be referring them to the source information, eg LASORS on the CAA website which answers many questions regarding the situation under JAR-FCL in the UK, comprehensively and in a manner which can still be understood.
in this case kates see
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/Lasors_Section_H.pdf
page 6.
I think we should be referring them to the source information, eg LASORS on the CAA website which answers many questions regarding the situation under JAR-FCL in the UK, comprehensively and in a manner which can still be understood.
in this case kates see
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/Lasors_Section_H.pdf
page 6.
Join Date: May 2003
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Thank you all for your answers.
However, I can't really understand why aeroplane pilots can qualify to commence a FI-course with only 200 hours TT and helicopter pilots needs 300 hours TT.
Any ideas why the JAR-FCL2 is different in this aspect from JAR-FCL1?
However, I can't really understand why aeroplane pilots can qualify to commence a FI-course with only 200 hours TT and helicopter pilots needs 300 hours TT.
Any ideas why the JAR-FCL2 is different in this aspect from JAR-FCL1?
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Hi,
in France (where we are still not JAR FCL2 compliant for helicopters):
You need to have 200 hours PIC in helicopter before doing the checkride.
You need to follow an approved ground and flight training.
You will have a checkride with an administration examiner.
You are then an IATH (deputy private flight instructor helicopter)
You will be allowed to instruct only for private pilot license.
If you are not CPL, you can not be paid for instructing.
After 100 hours of instruction, you'll become ITTH (private flight instructor helicopter), and you can deliver ratings.
If you want to instruct for CPL:
you need first to be IATH or ITTH and CPL.
you need 300 hours of total time helicopter and be approved by a civil aviation commission (usually they will ask more than 300 hours).
You will then be a deputy commercial flight instructor helicopter (ISPPH).
After a few years and probably a flight review with one of your student, and a minimum of 450 hours total time helicopter, you can be granted the full commercial flight instructor privileges.
On the job issue: not a lot of work either as CPL or flight instructor in France
Patrick
in France (where we are still not JAR FCL2 compliant for helicopters):
You need to have 200 hours PIC in helicopter before doing the checkride.
You need to follow an approved ground and flight training.
You will have a checkride with an administration examiner.
You are then an IATH (deputy private flight instructor helicopter)
You will be allowed to instruct only for private pilot license.
If you are not CPL, you can not be paid for instructing.
After 100 hours of instruction, you'll become ITTH (private flight instructor helicopter), and you can deliver ratings.
If you want to instruct for CPL:
you need first to be IATH or ITTH and CPL.
you need 300 hours of total time helicopter and be approved by a civil aviation commission (usually they will ask more than 300 hours).
You will then be a deputy commercial flight instructor helicopter (ISPPH).
After a few years and probably a flight review with one of your student, and a minimum of 450 hours total time helicopter, you can be granted the full commercial flight instructor privileges.
On the job issue: not a lot of work either as CPL or flight instructor in France
Patrick