Australia: Training, Licence Conversion, Job Prospects
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
Age: 72
Posts: 4,151
Likes: 0
Received 29 Likes
on
14 Posts
yes, though a lot of those guys in Oz and New Zealand could probably be found in Canada, where there is also a shortage - or rather, there are enough pilots there, but they mostly have 100 hours and the "consultants" are not allowing them to fly, so the shortage is actually for pilots over 1000 hours.
From what I hear, though I have no personal experience, the US is getting that way too.
In UK/Europe, the problem is finding good corporate pilots who can keep a customer entertained in a wet field for a couple of hours just having the numbers is not good enough.
My own estimate is that it will seriously begin to bite over the next 5 years, so you've got a bit of time to get in there.
My concern is that, as I keep saying in Vertical, unless we senior people start passing our knowledge on, the same old accidents are going to happen all over again, although it is fair to say that the young whippersnappers are gaining experience in a far better safety culture.
Phil
From what I hear, though I have no personal experience, the US is getting that way too.
In UK/Europe, the problem is finding good corporate pilots who can keep a customer entertained in a wet field for a couple of hours just having the numbers is not good enough.
My own estimate is that it will seriously begin to bite over the next 5 years, so you've got a bit of time to get in there.
My concern is that, as I keep saying in Vertical, unless we senior people start passing our knowledge on, the same old accidents are going to happen all over again, although it is fair to say that the young whippersnappers are gaining experience in a far better safety culture.
Phil
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting read Pohm. Seems like a good time to be in the industry if you've got some runs on the board. However will there be enough 'experienced' drivers to fill in all those supposed openings that come with an expanding fleet. Where will the experience come from?
Maybe the industry (in Oz at least) is on a bit of a knife’s edge. The prospects look good however it could slip into the abyss if the lower hour, less experienced guys don't have the avenues/facilities to take the next step.
Where will/should the initiative come from?
Maybe the industry (in Oz at least) is on a bit of a knife’s edge. The prospects look good however it could slip into the abyss if the lower hour, less experienced guys don't have the avenues/facilities to take the next step.
Where will/should the initiative come from?
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It was interesting reading and there does appear to be some expansion going on; but I'm not convinced the picture is as rosy as the HAA thinks.
Certainly, insurance costs can make it 'difficult' to employ pilots with less than that magic 1,000 hour mark. It seems true that experienced pilots are getting harder to find for casual work as they're tending to be 'snapped up' into full time employment.
However, if the expansion is going to be mostly tourist flying, then there will be plenty of opportunities for the low time pilots who are willing to 'go anywhere' to work - judging by current practices.
Where will the initiatives come from? If the larger companies 'feel the pinch', I think the'll develop ways to bring the lower time people into the fold.
and the more the merrier - the HAA may even get more members!!
Certainly, insurance costs can make it 'difficult' to employ pilots with less than that magic 1,000 hour mark. It seems true that experienced pilots are getting harder to find for casual work as they're tending to be 'snapped up' into full time employment.
However, if the expansion is going to be mostly tourist flying, then there will be plenty of opportunities for the low time pilots who are willing to 'go anywhere' to work - judging by current practices.
Where will the initiatives come from? If the larger companies 'feel the pinch', I think the'll develop ways to bring the lower time people into the fold.
and the more the merrier - the HAA may even get more members!!
Australasia still doing well
The Australian government recently released the annual budget. We appear still to be the lucky country with low inflation, an almost record low unemployment and a budget surplus of over AUD$8 billion.
What does this mean to the average chopper driver or engineer?
The shortages of technical people, forecast recently, does not appear to have a long term solution. As the airlines expand, we will lose more engineers to them, so we must encourage any attempts to get young people into technical training programmes, rather than going to university. (But what is every parent’s dream?)
Also, we must get the insurance companies to lift the embargo on low hour pilots. ASFA, AOPA and the HAA to mention a few are now doing research into “the gut feeling” that low hour pilots are not cause of accidents. It is our dream that research may prove low hour pilots are not the problem, and thus they will get that first job more easily and not be exploited by hungry and greedy employers.
So what is actually happening in Australia and New Zealand?
The industry is continuing to grow at twice the GDP at about 8% in Australia and New Zealand. Our fleet doubled in size to the present Australian 1204 and New Zealand to 606 in eleven years. Due to predicted strong economic growth we expect the fleet to double again in only seven years. By comparison the aeroplane light aircraft fleet is barely making half the GDP at about 1 – 2 %.
The Robinson fleet in both countries dominates by a large margin. Australia has 372 Robinson R22 and 128 Robinson R44. The nearest to these figures are the Bell 206 at 170, Bell 47 at 111 and Squirell AS350 at 78. Robinsons are still very much in demand and the R44 is outselling the R22 through out the world, and will do so in Australia in the near future.
New Zealand’s most popular helicopter is also the Robinson R22 at 136, followed by the Hughes/Schweizer 500 series at 95 and the As 350 Squirrel at a close 93. The next place is a tussle between the Robinson R44 at 63 and the Hughes/Schweizer series 269 at 60. Slowly being edged out is the Bell 206 family at 53. The EADS products are making inroads into NZ and their numbers are expected to grow as tourism improves.
Readers can see what types are in service and a bit of study will provide some idea where they should look for employment. The HAA can provide a complimentary Excel data base of the 1,600 helicopters in Australia and New Zealand. Unfortunately, we cannot get any sense out of Papua New Guinea, but we are working on it! In any case PNG has only about 60 helicopters and their economy is really very third world and despite the huge amount of aid from other nations, the country is drifting along very slowly.
What does this mean to the average chopper driver or engineer?
The shortages of technical people, forecast recently, does not appear to have a long term solution. As the airlines expand, we will lose more engineers to them, so we must encourage any attempts to get young people into technical training programmes, rather than going to university. (But what is every parent’s dream?)
Also, we must get the insurance companies to lift the embargo on low hour pilots. ASFA, AOPA and the HAA to mention a few are now doing research into “the gut feeling” that low hour pilots are not cause of accidents. It is our dream that research may prove low hour pilots are not the problem, and thus they will get that first job more easily and not be exploited by hungry and greedy employers.
So what is actually happening in Australia and New Zealand?
The industry is continuing to grow at twice the GDP at about 8% in Australia and New Zealand. Our fleet doubled in size to the present Australian 1204 and New Zealand to 606 in eleven years. Due to predicted strong economic growth we expect the fleet to double again in only seven years. By comparison the aeroplane light aircraft fleet is barely making half the GDP at about 1 – 2 %.
The Robinson fleet in both countries dominates by a large margin. Australia has 372 Robinson R22 and 128 Robinson R44. The nearest to these figures are the Bell 206 at 170, Bell 47 at 111 and Squirell AS350 at 78. Robinsons are still very much in demand and the R44 is outselling the R22 through out the world, and will do so in Australia in the near future.
New Zealand’s most popular helicopter is also the Robinson R22 at 136, followed by the Hughes/Schweizer 500 series at 95 and the As 350 Squirrel at a close 93. The next place is a tussle between the Robinson R44 at 63 and the Hughes/Schweizer series 269 at 60. Slowly being edged out is the Bell 206 family at 53. The EADS products are making inroads into NZ and their numbers are expected to grow as tourism improves.
Readers can see what types are in service and a bit of study will provide some idea where they should look for employment. The HAA can provide a complimentary Excel data base of the 1,600 helicopters in Australia and New Zealand. Unfortunately, we cannot get any sense out of Papua New Guinea, but we are working on it! In any case PNG has only about 60 helicopters and their economy is really very third world and despite the huge amount of aid from other nations, the country is drifting along very slowly.
Are you soem of the greedy or dumb?
Mustering Guru and 500
You guys really help our cause, which is to make our industry better, brighter and more accepted to the community.
What is wrong with trying to make it easier for low hour pilots to get a job. If they are wrongly being blamed for accidents, then we should fix it.
Otherwise the insurance companies impose a financial penalty on the employer, who in turn will not fork out the money and deny the first starter a job.
Are you afraid of growth? Are you afraid someone younger will steal your job? Will new talent show up your weaknesses shown in this thread.
Being dumb has its advantages, I suppose.
Just a final thought as I leave this thread, all the associations and their people trying to make us a better place to work all have other day jobs and they do this as volunteers.
If you feel so anti-progress why not join one of the groups and do your bit to promote your point of view, which is so clearly expressed here.
In fact what is you point of view, apart from shooting the messenger?
Wadda think guys? Show us the quality of your dribble.
Any thoughtys from others?
You guys really help our cause, which is to make our industry better, brighter and more accepted to the community.
What is wrong with trying to make it easier for low hour pilots to get a job. If they are wrongly being blamed for accidents, then we should fix it.
Otherwise the insurance companies impose a financial penalty on the employer, who in turn will not fork out the money and deny the first starter a job.
Are you afraid of growth? Are you afraid someone younger will steal your job? Will new talent show up your weaknesses shown in this thread.
Being dumb has its advantages, I suppose.
Just a final thought as I leave this thread, all the associations and their people trying to make us a better place to work all have other day jobs and they do this as volunteers.
If you feel so anti-progress why not join one of the groups and do your bit to promote your point of view, which is so clearly expressed here.
In fact what is you point of view, apart from shooting the messenger?
Wadda think guys? Show us the quality of your dribble.
Any thoughtys from others?
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh Dear Me.
There will always be the knockers, the unhelpful and the lowlife of our industry.
Stand up and be counted, you wimps.
This man is trying to move things!!...he does it his way and is in an elected position, what have you done? Not much I would expect, except snipe from your cave.
Grow up.
Stand up and be counted, you wimps.
This man is trying to move things!!...he does it his way and is in an elected position, what have you done? Not much I would expect, except snipe from your cave.
Grow up.
Thanks for Vice Like!I agree with MG and 500 , what a load of S
T!I agree with the point of insurance in regards to low time pilots.But rambling on for half the page gets a bit boring!
T!I agree with the point of insurance in regards to low time pilots.But rambling on for half the page gets a bit boring!
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah But!!!!
Fantastic news Rob,
The industry is on the way up and everyone is feeling good. Now if operators could just fall into line with the rest of the world and start paying people what they deserve. I recently spoke to a young fella in Sydney who has around 2000 hours. Good attitude and very capable. He was earning $40,000 a year. No flight pay, no benefits. Now the same guy can go overseas and earn twice as much. Australia keeps losing alot of its talent overseas because the grass IS greener. Any thaughts on that Rob?
The industry is on the way up and everyone is feeling good. Now if operators could just fall into line with the rest of the world and start paying people what they deserve. I recently spoke to a young fella in Sydney who has around 2000 hours. Good attitude and very capable. He was earning $40,000 a year. No flight pay, no benefits. Now the same guy can go overseas and earn twice as much. Australia keeps losing alot of its talent overseas because the grass IS greener. Any thaughts on that Rob?
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: GIRT, BY SEA
Posts: 132
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Generally, an operator will pay the minimum necessary to get a pilot. If he can find one who will work for $2 a day, then that is what he will pay. If nobody answers his advert at $2, he will have to offer more until the phone rings.
If you are unhappy working for $40K, tell the boss and be prepared to go somewhere else.
Judging by the number of ads for LAMEs, you seem to be in high demand. If you are still unlicensed, do the study and you will reap the rewards. Where I am, the engineers are paid much better than the pilots, because the boss knows which category is harder to find.
And to all those sniping gecko-watchers who abuse Rob Rich for a bit of good news about the industry, you don't deserve to be a part of the industry. There was an operator in Sydney, recently departed, who spent a large part of his life trying to bring down the opposition instead of building the industry up. All he did was leave a trail of anger and hatred, with his continual sniping, complaints to CASA or anybody else nearby, and abuse of all and sundry.
Give the HAA and the industry a chance. You might feel bitter and twisted about something, well, go and join an association and try to change it. All that your sniping will achieve is to make the volunteers, who do a thankless job, wonder why they even bothered to try.
If you are unhappy working for $40K, tell the boss and be prepared to go somewhere else.
Judging by the number of ads for LAMEs, you seem to be in high demand. If you are still unlicensed, do the study and you will reap the rewards. Where I am, the engineers are paid much better than the pilots, because the boss knows which category is harder to find.
And to all those sniping gecko-watchers who abuse Rob Rich for a bit of good news about the industry, you don't deserve to be a part of the industry. There was an operator in Sydney, recently departed, who spent a large part of his life trying to bring down the opposition instead of building the industry up. All he did was leave a trail of anger and hatred, with his continual sniping, complaints to CASA or anybody else nearby, and abuse of all and sundry.
Give the HAA and the industry a chance. You might feel bitter and twisted about something, well, go and join an association and try to change it. All that your sniping will achieve is to make the volunteers, who do a thankless job, wonder why they even bothered to try.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Victoria
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A bit harsh
Gee,
I tell you what - never let anyone post anything positive again else they be insulted and publicly bashed?!?!?!?!?!
This is after all a public forum, why not tell the world about Australia's growing industry and projections on the industry to bring in more students and help boost the economy, etc.
I would rather read about something interesting and positive instead of the usual drivel and b*tching that seems to be posted on this site (there have been some great items too).......
No one made you guys read the posting and it sounds as if you know Rob and who he is and perhaps that he can get a bit carried away at times - so you know what?!?! Don't read the postings and continue your narrow minded threads on this or that other cr*p.
I'm sure that I will be receiving my share of insults from this posting...."Go ahead, make my day" !!!!!
I tell you what - never let anyone post anything positive again else they be insulted and publicly bashed?!?!?!?!?!
This is after all a public forum, why not tell the world about Australia's growing industry and projections on the industry to bring in more students and help boost the economy, etc.
I would rather read about something interesting and positive instead of the usual drivel and b*tching that seems to be posted on this site (there have been some great items too).......
No one made you guys read the posting and it sounds as if you know Rob and who he is and perhaps that he can get a bit carried away at times - so you know what?!?! Don't read the postings and continue your narrow minded threads on this or that other cr*p.
I'm sure that I will be receiving my share of insults from this posting...."Go ahead, make my day" !!!!!
Last edited by redrotorhead; 17th May 2005 at 23:32.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: ether-bound
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm with DD - my impression is that engineers are in higher demand and get paid more straight out of apprenticeship than a pilot will get for many years after qualifying.
And I'm also in support of Rob - if you have something constructive to say, then say it. If you have data (not anecdotes) that contradicts Rob's statements, bring it on, I know Rob is man enough to have a reasonable discussion with a fair-minded person.
Be nice.
And I'm also in support of Rob - if you have something constructive to say, then say it. If you have data (not anecdotes) that contradicts Rob's statements, bring it on, I know Rob is man enough to have a reasonable discussion with a fair-minded person.
Be nice.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: australia
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have a few mates in Canada now working and this is the standard pay scale for over 5000hrs
base salary $3500 per month Cad
Flight Pay $50.00 the average phr
per diems $35.00 pd average
Crew houses FREE
Transport FREE
Flights FREE
Some even pay you for flight training and NON rev work
now why would a aussie stay home.....???????
australia can not boast about the growth or improvement it is years behind and soon there willl be no experiance left in the country to pass on knowledge to younger guys which inturn creates more risk in the work inviroment.........and for you engineers (whingengineers) find another site to cry on about pilots!!!
base salary $3500 per month Cad
Flight Pay $50.00 the average phr
per diems $35.00 pd average
Crew houses FREE
Transport FREE
Flights FREE
Some even pay you for flight training and NON rev work
now why would a aussie stay home.....???????
australia can not boast about the growth or improvement it is years behind and soon there willl be no experiance left in the country to pass on knowledge to younger guys which inturn creates more risk in the work inviroment.........and for you engineers (whingengineers) find another site to cry on about pilots!!!
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: GIRT, BY SEA
Posts: 132
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gymble they didnt give you a car because you dont know how to spel or use punctuation and anyway you are the biggest australian whinger ever to grace this forum you are almost as bad as pprune fan #1 with your attacks on engineers and crewmen it must be your hobby to take potshots at anything that raises its head and another reason they didnt give you a car to get to work is that they dont really want you to turn up you dag.
Give it a rest Gymble. All you do is upset the minority of readers who can't see that you're taking the piss and bore the rest of us who can.
Rob, thanks for the info and for your efforts on behalf of the industry. Sorry to hijack your topic but I\'m not the first so here goes.
Just Another Trick, what a delight you must be to work with. Just to summarise your beliefs (without the spelling mistakes):
pilots have attractive rosters, guaranteed days off and better pay
pilots find their way to the head of helicopter companies
pilots have time on their hands
pilots can focus on company requirements during their down time
pilots have a good operational understanding of the company business
some pilots can\'t find their helicopter each day, or operate it safely
pilots cannot make the connection between good engineering and safety
pilots have achieved improvements - but only for themselves
pilots are stupid
engineers are frustrated because they have evidence that most pilots are stupid
engineers are gathering "substantiative" evidence of pilot stupidity on a daily basis
engineers became engineers by accident, because their girlfriends got pregnant or because they were in the wrong place
engineers have no career path
engineers have low pay
engineers are fools for working long hours
Yeah, easy to see how you concluded that PILOTS are stupid.
Mate, in all seriousness I sympathise with your position - I wouldn\'t want to be an engineer for anything, but I don\'t see how criticising pilots and generalising about their situation is going to gain you any support in the industry - except from other engineers maybe. If it\'s so bloody dreadful being an engineer and so wonderful being a pilot, go get yourself a pilot\'s licence.
Rob, thanks for the info and for your efforts on behalf of the industry. Sorry to hijack your topic but I\'m not the first so here goes.
Just Another Trick, what a delight you must be to work with. Just to summarise your beliefs (without the spelling mistakes):
pilots have attractive rosters, guaranteed days off and better pay
pilots find their way to the head of helicopter companies
pilots have time on their hands
pilots can focus on company requirements during their down time
pilots have a good operational understanding of the company business
some pilots can\'t find their helicopter each day, or operate it safely
pilots cannot make the connection between good engineering and safety
pilots have achieved improvements - but only for themselves
pilots are stupid
engineers are frustrated because they have evidence that most pilots are stupid
engineers are gathering "substantiative" evidence of pilot stupidity on a daily basis
engineers became engineers by accident, because their girlfriends got pregnant or because they were in the wrong place
engineers have no career path
engineers have low pay
engineers are fools for working long hours
Yeah, easy to see how you concluded that PILOTS are stupid.
Mate, in all seriousness I sympathise with your position - I wouldn\'t want to be an engineer for anything, but I don\'t see how criticising pilots and generalising about their situation is going to gain you any support in the industry - except from other engineers maybe. If it\'s so bloody dreadful being an engineer and so wonderful being a pilot, go get yourself a pilot\'s licence.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Townsville Australia
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rob,
Thanks for the info. I don't envy your position as the spokesman for the association that tries to further the cause of rotary wing aviation in Australia. You'll always get the knockers... just let it be water of the duck's back.
It's good to get a cross sectional view of the industry in Australia so people can see where they should spend their money. It's no use getting an endorsement on an aircraft that's not well represented in the industry.
Even in my short 12 years flying I have seen the RW industry grow tremendously in this country, thanks to those with positive outlooks and with a genuine wish to make it better, safer and more efficient/cost effective. If we can band together rather than squabble amongst ourselves, maybe we can make our conditions better.
Short of forming a RW union (no red raggers here, thanks), an association that furthers the cause is the next best thing.
Keep it coming, Rob
Thanks for the info. I don't envy your position as the spokesman for the association that tries to further the cause of rotary wing aviation in Australia. You'll always get the knockers... just let it be water of the duck's back.
It's good to get a cross sectional view of the industry in Australia so people can see where they should spend their money. It's no use getting an endorsement on an aircraft that's not well represented in the industry.
Even in my short 12 years flying I have seen the RW industry grow tremendously in this country, thanks to those with positive outlooks and with a genuine wish to make it better, safer and more efficient/cost effective. If we can band together rather than squabble amongst ourselves, maybe we can make our conditions better.
Short of forming a RW union (no red raggers here, thanks), an association that furthers the cause is the next best thing.
Keep it coming, Rob
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Cairns, Australia
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks Rob,
Great news.
To you engineers and grumblers one of the points raised by Rob refers to low hour pilots. You cannot rise within the industry until you get a job. The hardest part of being a pilot within this industry is actually getting the chance to get into it. I know more unemployed low hour pilots than I do employed pilots. Can you say the same of people who wish to be engineers within the industry?
To get your first break you need to bust your butt making contacts, visiting potential employers and just trying to get ahead of the other 50 pilots who qualified at the same time you did. And not only that to contend with the insurance companies want to keep you grounded also.
I applaud Rob and continue to stand by him and the HAA for the awareness they are bringing to the industry. I love flying and will continue to bust my butt to find my break within the industry.
Nice one Rob - keep up the good work
Great news.
To you engineers and grumblers one of the points raised by Rob refers to low hour pilots. You cannot rise within the industry until you get a job. The hardest part of being a pilot within this industry is actually getting the chance to get into it. I know more unemployed low hour pilots than I do employed pilots. Can you say the same of people who wish to be engineers within the industry?
To get your first break you need to bust your butt making contacts, visiting potential employers and just trying to get ahead of the other 50 pilots who qualified at the same time you did. And not only that to contend with the insurance companies want to keep you grounded also.
I applaud Rob and continue to stand by him and the HAA for the awareness they are bringing to the industry. I love flying and will continue to bust my butt to find my break within the industry.
Nice one Rob - keep up the good work
Last months figures are now out
Guys and gals, thanks guys for the support.
We do this stuff to help, not attract abuse from those who should really go off and watch TV with a cool beer or a hot partner!
Please keep your sense of humour.
Anyhow, from the 18 April to 16 May 2005 Australia had eleven additions to the CASA register. They were: R22 (8), OH-58A (2) and AS350 (1). A total of eleven.
As we lost two EC120 to Japan, thus our total gain was nine which is 2.25 new helos per week. This is slightly above the eighteen month average which is about two new helicopters appearing each week.
The great news is that not one machine was taken off due to a prang!
Will have the NZ monthly summary in a few days.
We do this stuff to help, not attract abuse from those who should really go off and watch TV with a cool beer or a hot partner!
Please keep your sense of humour.
Anyhow, from the 18 April to 16 May 2005 Australia had eleven additions to the CASA register. They were: R22 (8), OH-58A (2) and AS350 (1). A total of eleven.
As we lost two EC120 to Japan, thus our total gain was nine which is 2.25 new helos per week. This is slightly above the eighteen month average which is about two new helicopters appearing each week.
The great news is that not one machine was taken off due to a prang!
Will have the NZ monthly summary in a few days.
Estimated jobs in the next five years
Hay guys get are spel chexer.
What about jobs in OZ?
Based on the fact we grew from 649 a decade ago to 1,206 today then we should see our fleet grow to about 1,780 machines in 2009. An increase of about 575, or an extra 100 helicopters per year. Assuming a working helicopter flies 400 hours per year, they will fly 230,000 hours more in five years than today.
Once again using raw data, and assuming a pilot flies 450 hours per year, we will need an extra 515 pilots.
Now there is another factor: old farts ….ageing ……baby boomers …… grandkids…..
These are guesses only. If we had a uniform “pyramid” of pilots ages then taking the average working life of a pilot as 30 years, about 3% retired each year. Add to that another 8% who go find another job or become sick, then in a static population you have about 11% or more who drop out each year. (My guess is 15%.)
But the fleet is expanding at almost 8% (compound interest calculation?)
Now take the 11% dropping away and add the growth 8% then the active pilot group must get fresh blood at the rate of 19% each year to keep bums on seats.
Problem. We have the Viet Vets almost gone, and now baby boomers who are giving it away. CASA suggests the average of a pilot is in late forties, and engineers even higher, due to shortages in the young people. This causes a bulge in the pyramid.
This causes another shortage as the bulge passes away into retirement. (Bran flakes?)
Today, the mustering operators are saying they are losing their experienced pilots to the turbine operators, and are seeing a wave of low hour pilots heading their way.
Which is why we need to find an easier path for the new guys to get that first job; which was the reason for these posts in the beginning.
Can someone update these thoughts?
What about jobs in OZ?
Based on the fact we grew from 649 a decade ago to 1,206 today then we should see our fleet grow to about 1,780 machines in 2009. An increase of about 575, or an extra 100 helicopters per year. Assuming a working helicopter flies 400 hours per year, they will fly 230,000 hours more in five years than today.
Once again using raw data, and assuming a pilot flies 450 hours per year, we will need an extra 515 pilots.
Now there is another factor: old farts ….ageing ……baby boomers …… grandkids…..
These are guesses only. If we had a uniform “pyramid” of pilots ages then taking the average working life of a pilot as 30 years, about 3% retired each year. Add to that another 8% who go find another job or become sick, then in a static population you have about 11% or more who drop out each year. (My guess is 15%.)
But the fleet is expanding at almost 8% (compound interest calculation?)
Now take the 11% dropping away and add the growth 8% then the active pilot group must get fresh blood at the rate of 19% each year to keep bums on seats.
Problem. We have the Viet Vets almost gone, and now baby boomers who are giving it away. CASA suggests the average of a pilot is in late forties, and engineers even higher, due to shortages in the young people. This causes a bulge in the pyramid.
This causes another shortage as the bulge passes away into retirement. (Bran flakes?)
Today, the mustering operators are saying they are losing their experienced pilots to the turbine operators, and are seeing a wave of low hour pilots heading their way.
Which is why we need to find an easier path for the new guys to get that first job; which was the reason for these posts in the beginning.
Can someone update these thoughts?
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: ether-bound
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cue Dave Jackson stage left, with his easy-to-learn-cheap-to-operate training helicopter to make it easier to get started.
Cue peals of laughter from insurance companies at the suggestion that low hour pilots are safer overall and therefore premiums should be lower.
Cue same peals of laughter from Human Resources people who still want minimum of the magic "1000 hours" as if it's some sort of talisman to protect them from mishaps.
Just on another note, Rob, how many of those are estimated to be privately owned and operated? See, you're talking about all these new helicopters and needing pilots to operate them ... but take out the number of helicopters being bought BY the pilots who will operate them (and be the only one flying it), and you've got a statistically significant reduction in the "demand for more pilots" argument. Unless all the privately bought helicopters are being bought by people who will employ a CPL chauffeur, I can't see the picture being as rosy as you've painted it.
Cue peals of laughter from insurance companies at the suggestion that low hour pilots are safer overall and therefore premiums should be lower.
Cue same peals of laughter from Human Resources people who still want minimum of the magic "1000 hours" as if it's some sort of talisman to protect them from mishaps.
Just on another note, Rob, how many of those are estimated to be privately owned and operated? See, you're talking about all these new helicopters and needing pilots to operate them ... but take out the number of helicopters being bought BY the pilots who will operate them (and be the only one flying it), and you've got a statistically significant reduction in the "demand for more pilots" argument. Unless all the privately bought helicopters are being bought by people who will employ a CPL chauffeur, I can't see the picture being as rosy as you've painted it.