Becoming a professional pilot, and finding a job
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OK, couple of us here are curious as to the steps and what all is involved in getting a JAR ATPL(H) when you already hold a Canadian ATPL(H) with over 500 hr IR, over 1000 hrs Heavy twin, current, 250 hrs night. Experience is not the issue just the steps involved to do the license in your spare time.
Or can anyone point us in the direction (email) to an inspector type that could clarify this for us, please.
And also the FAA ATPL(H) for any of the South of 49 lads, is it just a commercial ride + ATPL(H) exam?
Thanks for your time
Or can anyone point us in the direction (email) to an inspector type that could clarify this for us, please.
And also the FAA ATPL(H) for any of the South of 49 lads, is it just a commercial ride + ATPL(H) exam?
Thanks for your time
Join Date: May 2002
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Thumper,
You should find what you need here -
http://www.caa.co.uk/srg/licensing/f...sp?groupid=292
I think you'd have to do all 14 JAR ATPL ground exams and take the CPL/IR flight test but would only be required to do training 'at flight schools discression' for the tests - but I've also heard that some dispensations are possible for lots and lots of hours.
You should find what you need here -
http://www.caa.co.uk/srg/licensing/f...sp?groupid=292
I think you'd have to do all 14 JAR ATPL ground exams and take the CPL/IR flight test but would only be required to do training 'at flight schools discression' for the tests - but I've also heard that some dispensations are possible for lots and lots of hours.
Helibelly:
I'm sorry, I don't follow what you said.
I have a Seaking on my licence and it counts for multi crew time. Also last month I renewed my UK ATPL(H) and my new one shows exactly the same upon return.... what is the issue?
I'm sorry, I don't follow what you said.
I have a Seaking on my licence and it counts for multi crew time. Also last month I renewed my UK ATPL(H) and my new one shows exactly the same upon return.... what is the issue?
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TC: I'd be intrested to see how the CAA are treating you, my licence was a JAR one from the start (via the QSP route), but if you got yours back after renewal as a JAR ATPL from a UK ATPL I assume you've got your IR and a civil multi-pilot type, if not I'd love to hear from you cos if your only multi-pilot type is the seaking like mine is then my long standing argument with the powers that be is suddenly strenghtened, (but then again sometimes it's best not to rock the boat too hard!).
Cheers
Cheers
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Cheapest place to do PPLH?
Always wanted to do my PPLH. I currently have over 9000 hours fixed wing (mainly airline).
Anyone suggest where the cheapest place worldwide where I can do my training and approximately how much it would be.
Don't want to move my career into choppers but am simply keen to anjoy flying again with something new.
Thanks
Anyone suggest where the cheapest place worldwide where I can do my training and approximately how much it would be.
Don't want to move my career into choppers but am simply keen to anjoy flying again with something new.
Thanks
This is the old "piece of string" question.
Your answer should really be determined not by where you want to learn, but by where you want to fly. Learn somewhere close, at least in the same regulatory system, and you'll save bucketloads.
On second thoughts, you're an airline pilot. Learn where you want, and pay the extra to convert to a UK licence !
Your answer should really be determined not by where you want to learn, but by where you want to fly. Learn somewhere close, at least in the same regulatory system, and you'll save bucketloads.
On second thoughts, you're an airline pilot. Learn where you want, and pay the extra to convert to a UK licence !
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With the exchange rate being the major factor then I would look at New Zealand, Australia and South Africa. Not necesarily in that order.
There are some good schools in all places and also some ****ty ones so buyer beware.
There are some good schools in all places and also some ****ty ones so buyer beware.
Cool as a moosp
Join Date: Aug 2001
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... and those that consider price only are that mans lawful prey...
Office, like you I fly planks for a living and started (H) later in life. I had lessons in the UK, USA, (CA, GA, MS,) and Aus (SYD, BNE, PER) before finally completing the PPL in UK.
As Autorotate says the schools vary, but the bad ones don't last long. Each prang pushes their insurance up so high that they go out of business. Remember you are joining a school not a club, so treat each that way. (I stole that last sentence from a pprune contributor... good advice)
I enjoyed the Aus flying the best, CASA is better organised than many people make out and the requirements are testing but fair. Cross country's are outstanding. A small world of (H) instructors down there so most keep a high standard with the peer pressure. Weather is usually great and the price is reasonable, also for the accommodation.
From my small sample, USA schools vary more than Aus or UK. If you get a good one they are some of the best anywhere. Legislation is OK and you get eerily left alone by ATC and instructors at an early stage. Briefing and debriefing are not emphasized as much as under the UK/Aus system which I missed. The check ride seems a big jump up from the training whereas the other countries it felt like the next lesson.
UK has the weather factor although you'd be surprised how few days are lost to it. Make sure your aircraft has a heater... The price gets to you too, but if you add on your cost of accommodation and car hire etc abroad you may find it approaching the same total.
And BTW, take a pack of sliced lemons with you for each lesson to take the silly grin off your face after each flight.
FWIW
Office, like you I fly planks for a living and started (H) later in life. I had lessons in the UK, USA, (CA, GA, MS,) and Aus (SYD, BNE, PER) before finally completing the PPL in UK.
As Autorotate says the schools vary, but the bad ones don't last long. Each prang pushes their insurance up so high that they go out of business. Remember you are joining a school not a club, so treat each that way. (I stole that last sentence from a pprune contributor... good advice)
I enjoyed the Aus flying the best, CASA is better organised than many people make out and the requirements are testing but fair. Cross country's are outstanding. A small world of (H) instructors down there so most keep a high standard with the peer pressure. Weather is usually great and the price is reasonable, also for the accommodation.
From my small sample, USA schools vary more than Aus or UK. If you get a good one they are some of the best anywhere. Legislation is OK and you get eerily left alone by ATC and instructors at an early stage. Briefing and debriefing are not emphasized as much as under the UK/Aus system which I missed. The check ride seems a big jump up from the training whereas the other countries it felt like the next lesson.
UK has the weather factor although you'd be surprised how few days are lost to it. Make sure your aircraft has a heater... The price gets to you too, but if you add on your cost of accommodation and car hire etc abroad you may find it approaching the same total.
And BTW, take a pack of sliced lemons with you for each lesson to take the silly grin off your face after each flight.
FWIW
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Officedesk
If you're based in Surrey you could do a lot worse than to pop along to Redhill, arguably one of the most heli-oriented airfields in the country (marked helistrips, three hover squares, two areas of sloping ground, one hover circle, two confined areas, switched-on ATC...) and a good fleet on which to learn at LHC.
If you're based in Surrey you could do a lot worse than to pop along to Redhill, arguably one of the most heli-oriented airfields in the country (marked helistrips, three hover squares, two areas of sloping ground, one hover circle, two confined areas, switched-on ATC...) and a good fleet on which to learn at LHC.
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Is a degree an advantage?
Hi all, apologies if this is not the correct forum. It's my first (second attempt at post but then i lost all my text grrr).
I would like to invite any comments, suggestion or advice on what the 'future prospects are of employment'...ok i know that this has most likely been covered more than once before...blah blah...yawn. However, i am looking at financing myself and therefore have to either justify to myself the investment, and perhaps also to whomever lends me the finance. After all many people start new businesses every year, so why can i not see myself as a business, but only if the return on investment is sufficient enough.
I have read a lot of the posts on here, and through my own research figure that it's no easy ride, hard work and dedication are a requirement, and i know that most insurance companies and operators won't even entertain you for initial employment under half a million hours or so...ok a little sarcasm, but surely one needs a sense of humour in order to attempt a challenging career as such as this? but you get my point
I have procrastinated long enough, 10 years or so, saying to myself, 'oh this is not the right time for helo driver employment, let me wait a while longer', but when is it ever? I don't wish to work in a office staring at the same scenery/face for the next x years..i'm sure you all know what i mean. Plank driver doesn't interest me either, i don't consider it challenging enough, who flies it anyway? Perhaps the software that the Aero engineers have designed? OK perhaps private flying is more enjoyable.
So to get to the point, would a Masters Degree in Aerospace Engineering benefit me at all, in addition to a CPL(H) IR? What are the employment alternatives/advantages of possessing both qualifications, if there are any at all?
Ok comments would be useful even the not so nice ones, hey i did say one needed a sense of humour right?
thanks in advance
I would like to invite any comments, suggestion or advice on what the 'future prospects are of employment'...ok i know that this has most likely been covered more than once before...blah blah...yawn. However, i am looking at financing myself and therefore have to either justify to myself the investment, and perhaps also to whomever lends me the finance. After all many people start new businesses every year, so why can i not see myself as a business, but only if the return on investment is sufficient enough.
I have read a lot of the posts on here, and through my own research figure that it's no easy ride, hard work and dedication are a requirement, and i know that most insurance companies and operators won't even entertain you for initial employment under half a million hours or so...ok a little sarcasm, but surely one needs a sense of humour in order to attempt a challenging career as such as this? but you get my point
I have procrastinated long enough, 10 years or so, saying to myself, 'oh this is not the right time for helo driver employment, let me wait a while longer', but when is it ever? I don't wish to work in a office staring at the same scenery/face for the next x years..i'm sure you all know what i mean. Plank driver doesn't interest me either, i don't consider it challenging enough, who flies it anyway? Perhaps the software that the Aero engineers have designed? OK perhaps private flying is more enjoyable.
So to get to the point, would a Masters Degree in Aerospace Engineering benefit me at all, in addition to a CPL(H) IR? What are the employment alternatives/advantages of possessing both qualifications, if there are any at all?
Ok comments would be useful even the not so nice ones, hey i did say one needed a sense of humour right?
thanks in advance
Helislave: you're quite right, waiting never solved anything. If you've got it in your blood, and it strikes me you've looked at this issue long enough to have had an infusion by now
then come on in, the water is luke warm and often murky, but you won't drown!!!
Industry is putting out signals that the latest up and coming "attachment" to one's portfolio in aviation, is the Aviation Management degree.
[As an aside - ab initio plank drivers are being positively immersed in the subject during training].
I saw an ad the other day for students to undergo a full aviation management degree which included a full JAR CPL(IR) and eventually an ATPL.
I think this might be a better vehicle for you if you intend to climb the management ladder.
If you go thru with your engineering degree, it certainly wouldn't be wasted (a very respectable qual) but if your leaning is to actual flying, then it won't be much use. (Unless you want to move sideways into engineering at some time.
Actually getting a helo job with a degree as a bunk up, is a non starter, our (helo) industry isn't as streamlined as the FW world. All we want is hours, lots of them and good quality ones, too.
Jump!!!!!
then come on in, the water is luke warm and often murky, but you won't drown!!!
Industry is putting out signals that the latest up and coming "attachment" to one's portfolio in aviation, is the Aviation Management degree.
[As an aside - ab initio plank drivers are being positively immersed in the subject during training].
I saw an ad the other day for students to undergo a full aviation management degree which included a full JAR CPL(IR) and eventually an ATPL.
I think this might be a better vehicle for you if you intend to climb the management ladder.
If you go thru with your engineering degree, it certainly wouldn't be wasted (a very respectable qual) but if your leaning is to actual flying, then it won't be much use. (Unless you want to move sideways into engineering at some time.
Actually getting a helo job with a degree as a bunk up, is a non starter, our (helo) industry isn't as streamlined as the FW world. All we want is hours, lots of them and good quality ones, too.
Jump!!!!!
I would suggest a Third Grade education would suffice....from the quality of managers the helicopter world seems to draw. So long as you have a complete lack of conscience and a heart of stone, you would do nicely. By all means....do not take any touchy-feely kinds of courses.....one must not get close to the hired hands....
Oh! Silly me....just kidding of course!
Oh! Silly me....just kidding of course!
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Thanks both, much appreciated.
TC, yeah i have also seen these combined courses too, only wish i would have seen them earlier. Maybe i should explain, i already have a degree in Aerospace Engineering d'oh..(perhaps i should get myself a english degree instead!) joking aside. But these degrees were not around when i decided to do my degree.
Many thanks for your words of encouragement, also to you SASless, although i don't think management would be my thing, perhaps only when i fail a medical or more likely lose my marbles would i consider management. But for me helo driving is the thing...if funds allowed i'd do it for free...but they don't so i have to make an informed decision.
Would you think that a helo manufacturer might prefer an Aero Degree and and a CPL (H), surely that has to be an advantage, or would they still require zillions of hours too?
Why the subject is raised, why is it that the helo world is seemingly well behind the plank world when it comes to career progression and the like? After all, helos have only been around 50 odd years or so...and the leaps and bounds made in helo technology is far more than in planks for the same period of time, particularly in materials.
TC, yeah i have also seen these combined courses too, only wish i would have seen them earlier. Maybe i should explain, i already have a degree in Aerospace Engineering d'oh..(perhaps i should get myself a english degree instead!) joking aside. But these degrees were not around when i decided to do my degree.
Many thanks for your words of encouragement, also to you SASless, although i don't think management would be my thing, perhaps only when i fail a medical or more likely lose my marbles would i consider management. But for me helo driving is the thing...if funds allowed i'd do it for free...but they don't so i have to make an informed decision.
Would you think that a helo manufacturer might prefer an Aero Degree and and a CPL (H), surely that has to be an advantage, or would they still require zillions of hours too?
Why the subject is raised, why is it that the helo world is seemingly well behind the plank world when it comes to career progression and the like? After all, helos have only been around 50 odd years or so...and the leaps and bounds made in helo technology is far more than in planks for the same period of time, particularly in materials.
Last edited by helislave; 14th Sep 2003 at 23:16.
Helislave, when you state "helicopter manufacturer" does this imply that you want to work for one. I was under the impression you simply wanted to fly helos for a helicopter operator?
If you want to fly for someone else, then a degree won't really improve your chances, I believe. By the time you've done your masters, you would have probably found a job and started hour building.....
Get on with it!
If you want to fly for someone else, then a degree won't really improve your chances, I believe. By the time you've done your masters, you would have probably found a job and started hour building.....
Get on with it!
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Cheers TC, i was just thinking that a Manufacturer would perhaps need/use/benefit from a CPL and an Aero engineering Degree. Surely it has to be better than just one on it's own, depending on the job of course? But to be honest i am just trying to cover all of my bases, and therefore trying to see if other avenues of employment are open to me. So flying for an operator or Manufacturer is pretty much the same for me, as long as i fly!
Mind you i have an Aero Degree, and am in the process of looking for a job in that too. So if i did get a CPL and end up in the same boat of looking for a job, i would be no worse off, (except down 50k or so) so what am i waiting for!!!
thanks for your continued support...
Mind you i have an Aero Degree, and am in the process of looking for a job in that too. So if i did get a CPL and end up in the same boat of looking for a job, i would be no worse off, (except down 50k or so) so what am i waiting for!!!
thanks for your continued support...
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The presence of a degree is a good thing. It opens other doors for you that you may not have considered that might be related to helicopter flying, and means that you won't be b-s'd when someone starts to talk rubbish about any one of a number of things related to performance or handling.
I find it interesting that most of the major FW airlines won't hire someone without a degree, but a large majority of (civil only) helicopter guys seem to have a high school education.
(they are mostly very good pilots, and often don't want to do anything except fly, but it does limit them if something happens to their medical or the industry goes flat, or someone invents the anti-gravity ray...)
Not sure that the Master's degree is of much immediate assistance (only because I lack one meself?)
I find it interesting that most of the major FW airlines won't hire someone without a degree, but a large majority of (civil only) helicopter guys seem to have a high school education.
(they are mostly very good pilots, and often don't want to do anything except fly, but it does limit them if something happens to their medical or the industry goes flat, or someone invents the anti-gravity ray...)
Not sure that the Master's degree is of much immediate assistance (only because I lack one meself?)
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"So to get to the point, would a Masters Degree in Aerospace Engineering benefit me at all, in addition to a CPL(H) IR? What are the employment alternatives/advantages of possessing both qualifications, if there are any at all?"
Looking at the question from a different perspective, there are no disadvantages related to possessing both qualifications. If you have the time, money and intelligence to pursue a Master Degree, you should. Employment alternatives are greater for those with a Masters Degree in "anything" compared to those without. It is a key that will open a door that you may one day wish to pass through.
Looking at the question from a different perspective, there are no disadvantages related to possessing both qualifications. If you have the time, money and intelligence to pursue a Master Degree, you should. Employment alternatives are greater for those with a Masters Degree in "anything" compared to those without. It is a key that will open a door that you may one day wish to pass through.
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"Knowledge is Good"
And here is another angle for using knowledge earned in the University to accomplish the goal of flying these things.
Go to the University, work on the Masters, meet attractive rich lady with a good family who owns large business, work for the family business and buy your own helicopter you can fly around any time you want.
And here is another angle for using knowledge earned in the University to accomplish the goal of flying these things.
Go to the University, work on the Masters, meet attractive rich lady with a good family who owns large business, work for the family business and buy your own helicopter you can fly around any time you want.