Becoming a professional pilot, and finding a job
It's not just an adventure....
it's just a job!
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Capt.Spud
All the above is good advice, but.......
You have to do what you want. I thought a very long time ago that all I wanted to do was fly 104's but when I was half way through my training, the CF cancelled the pipeline program to 104's and opened the F-18 pipeline.
Not being a whimp, I definately didn't want to fly a girlyman aircraft like the F-18 so I went SeaKings (S-61A) and have never looked back.
Since then, I have flown 206, 205, 500, 117, 76, 61N and now take home 90-100K per anum. That's TAKE HOME.
You can go with the flow and fly siezed wing, but fling wing is the way to go. You won't regret it. It just takes time.
If you want the medium bucks now, go siezed, if you want a truly rewarding carreer with potential, go flingwing.
Cheers,
OffshoreIgor
All the above is good advice, but.......
You have to do what you want. I thought a very long time ago that all I wanted to do was fly 104's but when I was half way through my training, the CF cancelled the pipeline program to 104's and opened the F-18 pipeline.
Not being a whimp, I definately didn't want to fly a girlyman aircraft like the F-18 so I went SeaKings (S-61A) and have never looked back.
Since then, I have flown 206, 205, 500, 117, 76, 61N and now take home 90-100K per anum. That's TAKE HOME.
You can go with the flow and fly siezed wing, but fling wing is the way to go. You won't regret it. It just takes time.
If you want the medium bucks now, go siezed, if you want a truly rewarding carreer with potential, go flingwing.
Cheers,
OffshoreIgor
It's not just an adventure....
it's just a job!
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NagsTeeth,
It's not so simple as 'How do I go from PPL to ATPL'.
Once you get the PPL (Don't know why you want it), you must get a CPL. Then the hours required by CAA/JAA for ATPL + IR and experience in Multi.....etc....etc.....
This not something that you can purchase. It will take many years.
There is no school in the world that can give you
PPL to ATPL in one course. If they say they can, they are full of SH!T
After saying that, if you still want to continue, then my advice is, if you are still in your 20's, join the RAF/RN and get it for free.
Cheers, OffshoreIgor
It's not so simple as 'How do I go from PPL to ATPL'.
Once you get the PPL (Don't know why you want it), you must get a CPL. Then the hours required by CAA/JAA for ATPL + IR and experience in Multi.....etc....etc.....
This not something that you can purchase. It will take many years.
There is no school in the world that can give you
PPL to ATPL in one course. If they say they can, they are full of SH!T
After saying that, if you still want to continue, then my advice is, if you are still in your 20's, join the RAF/RN and get it for free.
Cheers,
OffshoreIgor
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Ok, Bert, I'll get that degree, promise!
But if I stop flying fixed wing a/c through Riddle, I might need to change my major entirely. You see, you need to finish flying with them (up to Com/ME/IFR) and all the college credits (classes) to get the Aeronautical Science degree.
Therefore, if I fly helicopters at an FBO, I need to change my degree. Now, it's a small university with limited degrees offered. Almost all are Aviation based.
My question is, would a degree in Aerospace Studies (pretty similar to AeroNAUTICAL Science) be good. Or should I major in something else. Perhaps one we have, called: Science, Technology and Globalisation?
I realise you guys aren't my guidance counselors, and you are providing advice out of the kindness of your hearts but I don't trust professors' advice at my university. Universities in the states are money-making ventures and will tell you exactly what you want to hear. You guys are out working (hopefully) and living in the real world.
So, would a degree from Riddle (aviation based) get me a real job if I don't fly? Honestly...
But if I stop flying fixed wing a/c through Riddle, I might need to change my major entirely. You see, you need to finish flying with them (up to Com/ME/IFR) and all the college credits (classes) to get the Aeronautical Science degree.
Therefore, if I fly helicopters at an FBO, I need to change my degree. Now, it's a small university with limited degrees offered. Almost all are Aviation based.
My question is, would a degree in Aerospace Studies (pretty similar to AeroNAUTICAL Science) be good. Or should I major in something else. Perhaps one we have, called: Science, Technology and Globalisation?
I realise you guys aren't my guidance counselors, and you are providing advice out of the kindness of your hearts but I don't trust professors' advice at my university. Universities in the states are money-making ventures and will tell you exactly what you want to hear. You guys are out working (hopefully) and living in the real world.
So, would a degree from Riddle (aviation based) get me a real job if I don't fly? Honestly...
Gatvol
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"So, would a degree from Riddle (aviation based) get me a real job if I don't fly? Honestly..."
A lot of the youngsters with stars in their eyes want to fly...I was one of them. I also have been very fortunate in that should for some reason I could not fly, I had other income. The point of getting a degree in ANYTHING is that for some reason you lose a medical or whatever, you can put together a resume with a College Degree. This is a cold world out here and the only person who cares what happens to you and your future is you.
A degree just puts you a little farther up the employment ladder for a job should you need one.
Flying is a great career, but if you look at the amount of folks flying versus those who are financially comfortable, you will find many are just going to have to work till they die. Dont get caught in that rut.. I agree with the above post, that you can do what you want to, but remember you do want some quality on the other end. To get that quality your going to have to guess ahead as to what the future will bring. It may not be as a Pilot, but maybe something in management. Its still aviation. My advice above was only that, advice. Good Luck and once you get that degree, keep working towards a higher one.
A lot of the youngsters with stars in their eyes want to fly...I was one of them. I also have been very fortunate in that should for some reason I could not fly, I had other income. The point of getting a degree in ANYTHING is that for some reason you lose a medical or whatever, you can put together a resume with a College Degree. This is a cold world out here and the only person who cares what happens to you and your future is you.
A degree just puts you a little farther up the employment ladder for a job should you need one.
Flying is a great career, but if you look at the amount of folks flying versus those who are financially comfortable, you will find many are just going to have to work till they die. Dont get caught in that rut.. I agree with the above post, that you can do what you want to, but remember you do want some quality on the other end. To get that quality your going to have to guess ahead as to what the future will bring. It may not be as a Pilot, but maybe something in management. Its still aviation. My advice above was only that, advice. Good Luck and once you get that degree, keep working towards a higher one.
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Cheers.
Offshoreigor.
Thank you for your advice, but the RAF will not have me due to apparent lack of motivation! And to be truthful the Navy doesn't do anything for me. But anyway I am not bitching!
So what else can I do? I want to get into Helicopters, can I do a CPL without a PPL or not, you see I don't know much about the courses and the requirements. I understand that it will take years and I do have time on my side as I have not long turned 20 and self employed so time is not really an issue for me.
Would be very grateful for any help.. Thanks..
Thank you for your advice, but the RAF will not have me due to apparent lack of motivation! And to be truthful the Navy doesn't do anything for me. But anyway I am not bitching!
So what else can I do? I want to get into Helicopters, can I do a CPL without a PPL or not, you see I don't know much about the courses and the requirements. I understand that it will take years and I do have time on my side as I have not long turned 20 and self employed so time is not really an issue for me.
Would be very grateful for any help.. Thanks..
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Nags teeth, I don't know about licensing in the UK but here in Canada you can walk in off the street, pay $30,000 - $40,000, fly for 100 hours on R22 and B206 and start work as a commercial helicopter pilot with a CPL(H). The alternate is to attend one of the community colleges and do their 2 or 3 year aviation course. It would probably cost the same or more.
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The Navy didn't rock my boat either, but I wish I had applied to them or the AAC, because I am sure I would now be a civvy and flying choppers for a living, rather than low flying in ford Mondeos (see picture on Christmas and New Year Greetings - which would YOU rather be driving)
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The thing to do is firstly look at the BHAB (British Helicopter Advisory Board) site and read what they have to tell you.
Then take a look in the yellow pages under Flying Schools for a school near you that teaches PPL(H). Then, arrange to go have a talk with them.
Once you are satisified that you are not excluded medically and still wish to continue, try taking a trial lesson.
After all that, you should have a better idea if you CAN do it, if you WANT to do it and CAN AFFORD to do it.
If you keep coming up with YES... Good luck to you
Then take a look in the yellow pages under Flying Schools for a school near you that teaches PPL(H). Then, arrange to go have a talk with them.
Once you are satisified that you are not excluded medically and still wish to continue, try taking a trial lesson.
After all that, you should have a better idea if you CAN do it, if you WANT to do it and CAN AFFORD to do it.
If you keep coming up with YES... Good luck to you
Join Date: Sep 2000
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Thanks once again for all the invaluable information Bert and everybody else. I will definately follow your advice. Getting a degree is vitally important nowadays, so I will make that my number one priority.
Oh by the way, I used to live in Pretoria, near to Garsfontein, in a neighbourhood called Menlo Park. Kinda miss SA, but America is a nice place especially Arizona.
Thanks again, enjoy the flying (in the Caribbean I believe) and don't drink all the Rum, please
Cheers
Craig
Oh by the way, I used to live in Pretoria, near to Garsfontein, in a neighbourhood called Menlo Park. Kinda miss SA, but America is a nice place especially Arizona.
Thanks again, enjoy the flying (in the Caribbean I believe) and don't drink all the Rum, please
Cheers
Craig
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just another angle.
Larry Ellison told a group of Harvard graduates that they will never make it, they are now at least 5 years behind, everyone else was getting on in the world while they were getting stoned and drunk. Security then removed him to the cheers of the recent graduates. Could you get a job and fly on the profits while living on a students income? It may be a way to build those flying hours. Degrees do not get you ahead, interviewing skills, negotiation skills, sales skills, luck and being in the place and time with the attitude to grasp it, will. That being said I do not have a degree, so take it with a pinch of salt, how it taste's will effect the rest of your life. Good luck in the road you take, but remember it is only the first of many more crossroads.
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One thing I find amazing is when I travel to all corners of the globe, I hear the same things being told to students no matter where it is. "There is a huge demand for pilots - give us all your money and we will not quite guarantee you a job". Its the same BS everywhere and I always wonder why people keep falling for the same rubbish.
The NZ Govt has just recently undertake an enquiry into all the funding for these so called "aviation degrees" that the universities are running. Apparently last year they funded millions of dollars for over 800 people to get their pilots licences. Amazing since the main employer - Air New Zealand only hired twenty pilots last year
Massey School of Aviation also puts through pilot after pilot after pilot, using Govt funding and its taken years before someone in the Govt has finally worked out that of the thousands they have funded, only about 100 would have actually got a job in aviation.
Comments on this from anyone.
AB
The NZ Govt has just recently undertake an enquiry into all the funding for these so called "aviation degrees" that the universities are running. Apparently last year they funded millions of dollars for over 800 people to get their pilots licences. Amazing since the main employer - Air New Zealand only hired twenty pilots last year
Massey School of Aviation also puts through pilot after pilot after pilot, using Govt funding and its taken years before someone in the Govt has finally worked out that of the thousands they have funded, only about 100 would have actually got a job in aviation.
Comments on this from anyone.
AB
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Cheers everybody for the help. If anybody has any more I would be grateful the more the better I think.
I know that I am medically fit as I have a CAA class 1 med. for another reason anyway. So I will start looking for schools and go and have a chat to some of them.
Again thanks....
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Nagsteeth
You may like to consider looking at some of the JAR approved schools in OZ or NZ. With the exchange rate being pretty good the savings you get could pay for accomodation, travel etc and still have some left over. Just a thought. Canada is also another good option, they have some great schools there.
AB
You may like to consider looking at some of the JAR approved schools in OZ or NZ. With the exchange rate being pretty good the savings you get could pay for accomodation, travel etc and still have some left over. Just a thought. Canada is also another good option, they have some great schools there.
AB
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Training advice sought
I currently hold a PPL(A) and intend training for a PPL (H) as soon as I have got to grips with three questions:
Who offers the best training accessible to private individuals ? After a somewhat frustrating time training for PPL (A) (where I came across a number of low-time, low enthusiasm, instructors simply seeking hour building) I am prepared to travel as far as is necessary to train with an experienced, and enthusastic aviator, who can pass on his/her experience
Which a/c is best to train on - given that my ultimate ambition is to be get ratings on several types, and not for example, be restricted to simply R22 ?
Is choice of a/c of secondary importance to the standard of instruction or is it an important decision that affects rate of progression of your flying skill post PPL (H) ?
Any advice to this prospective entrant to the rotary world would be greatly appreciated - if you feel that a response will infringe PPRuNe advertising policy - please e-mail me privately. Regards
Who offers the best training accessible to private individuals ? After a somewhat frustrating time training for PPL (A) (where I came across a number of low-time, low enthusiasm, instructors simply seeking hour building) I am prepared to travel as far as is necessary to train with an experienced, and enthusastic aviator, who can pass on his/her experience
Which a/c is best to train on - given that my ultimate ambition is to be get ratings on several types, and not for example, be restricted to simply R22 ?
Is choice of a/c of secondary importance to the standard of instruction or is it an important decision that affects rate of progression of your flying skill post PPL (H) ?
Any advice to this prospective entrant to the rotary world would be greatly appreciated - if you feel that a response will infringe PPRuNe advertising policy - please e-mail me privately. Regards
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Chris,
As you have posted from Ireland I'm sure you must be seeking training here so I may be able to help.I went through a lot of deliberating as to who to go to for my HPPL and ended up choosing Eirecopter based at Weston in Dublin (016280059).The reasons for this are many fold and of which I won't go into much details here particularly regarding the competition.Paul Noctor who runs the school is a very good instructer and he has some good guys with many hours working for him.They use the Robinson R22 for training which is universally accepted as the most popular trainer for lots of reasons.I don't want to open up a debate here but many people think that if you can fly one of these it will give you a good foundation and the ability with time to fly pretty much anything with rotors with relative ease and safety.There's also a good community spirit at Weston amongst the pilots and I find chatting with them to be very educational regarding flying in general.
Hope this helps...
As you have posted from Ireland I'm sure you must be seeking training here so I may be able to help.I went through a lot of deliberating as to who to go to for my HPPL and ended up choosing Eirecopter based at Weston in Dublin (016280059).The reasons for this are many fold and of which I won't go into much details here particularly regarding the competition.Paul Noctor who runs the school is a very good instructer and he has some good guys with many hours working for him.They use the Robinson R22 for training which is universally accepted as the most popular trainer for lots of reasons.I don't want to open up a debate here but many people think that if you can fly one of these it will give you a good foundation and the ability with time to fly pretty much anything with rotors with relative ease and safety.There's also a good community spirit at Weston amongst the pilots and I find chatting with them to be very educational regarding flying in general.
Hope this helps...
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Rotary Conversion
Welcome to Rotary Winged flying.........it will be an enjoying if not frustrating experience......
Whilst I have not yet flown in the UK......it is hard to avoid the sentiment of many of our colleagues here at "Prune"......
It would seem that you MAY be better to travel to other parts of the world to do your basic training.....
Having experience in a few countries........New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, US and Canada......all offer good value for money...with only a small amount of Red Tape.
Each school is only as good as your Instructor[s].......I would get references from as many folk as possible........and check them out by ringing them and chatting about the wonders of what you are about to do.....if they are reluctant to carry on a chat with you when your paying for the call...then move on, as their attitude to personalised instruction will be just the same....
I have found that you can [and you must] choose the school and Instructor that suits you......and not just be allocated an Instructor from the pool.........from my experience, choose the older guy/lady, who may be on the "other end" of his/her career, as they have more to offer than a younger hour builder [not to say there arn't exceptions to this....just generalising].
There are heaps of good quality Instructors in the Industry...........your challenge is to find the one that suits you.
Good luck......
Whilst I have not yet flown in the UK......it is hard to avoid the sentiment of many of our colleagues here at "Prune"......
It would seem that you MAY be better to travel to other parts of the world to do your basic training.....
Having experience in a few countries........New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, US and Canada......all offer good value for money...with only a small amount of Red Tape.
Each school is only as good as your Instructor[s].......I would get references from as many folk as possible........and check them out by ringing them and chatting about the wonders of what you are about to do.....if they are reluctant to carry on a chat with you when your paying for the call...then move on, as their attitude to personalised instruction will be just the same....
I have found that you can [and you must] choose the school and Instructor that suits you......and not just be allocated an Instructor from the pool.........from my experience, choose the older guy/lady, who may be on the "other end" of his/her career, as they have more to offer than a younger hour builder [not to say there arn't exceptions to this....just generalising].
There are heaps of good quality Instructors in the Industry...........your challenge is to find the one that suits you.
Good luck......
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Old Man Rotor's advice is right on the button, in my opinion. Be wary about committing to a course if you have not had a chance to meet and talk with your instructor.
Never forget you have the ultimate control (in the sense that it is your money). I don't mean be a stroppy git; listen to the advice of your instructor. But do not let the flying school run your training for their benefit.
I very reluctantly agree that you should look to other parts than the UK for your training - our training is being killed by the dead hand of our wonderful regulators.
There is one further thought. You need to look ahead to the time you need to start looking for work (or at least free flying). You are more likely to get a break from an outfit who knows you and where you have spent some money.
Good Luck and just stick at it. If you want it enough, it will happen.
Never forget you have the ultimate control (in the sense that it is your money). I don't mean be a stroppy git; listen to the advice of your instructor. But do not let the flying school run your training for their benefit.
I very reluctantly agree that you should look to other parts than the UK for your training - our training is being killed by the dead hand of our wonderful regulators.
There is one further thought. You need to look ahead to the time you need to start looking for work (or at least free flying). You are more likely to get a break from an outfit who knows you and where you have spent some money.
Good Luck and just stick at it. If you want it enough, it will happen.