Hours building: Questions, Ideas, Advice, Countries etc
Guest
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Thanks 212man. Looking at the article, in Heliflyer's case,
Article 130, para 8 (ii) (bb); The proportion which such contribution [I'll assume this means the passenger's contribution] bears to the total direct costs of the flight shall not exceed the proportion which the number of persons carried on the flight (excluding the pilot)[3] bears to the number of persons carried on the flight (including the pilot) [4].
Therefore, the pax can't pay more than 3/4 of the cost of the flight.
Article 130, para 8 (ii) (bb); The proportion which such contribution [I'll assume this means the passenger's contribution] bears to the total direct costs of the flight shall not exceed the proportion which the number of persons carried on the flight (excluding the pilot)[3] bears to the number of persons carried on the flight (including the pilot) [4].
Therefore, the pax can't pay more than 3/4 of the cost of the flight.
Guest
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In retrospect, I tend to agree with Robbo. It would seem logical, though I wouldn't necessarily expect that to have any bearing!
I responded initially after a quick search late at night and I must admit in daylight the wording looks a little different. Sorry to have misled anyone.
Hope the pax enjoy the flight heliflyer.
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Another day in paradise
I responded initially after a quick search late at night and I must admit in daylight the wording looks a little different. Sorry to have misled anyone.
Hope the pax enjoy the flight heliflyer.
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Another day in paradise
Guest
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Cheap flying ?
All :
I'm based in the UK, and need to do a serious amount of hour building in the coming year - 90 hours to get to the 155 to go on the modular CPL(H) course. I then intend doing the FI course ( I'll have over 300TT by then ) so some other person can pay for my flying !!
At some point I want to go abroad, as prices are around the £100 per hour mark, rather than the £160 I'm paying at the moment. However does anyone know of any LEGAL arrangement in use in the UK to provide cheap but SAFE helicopter hour building.
I know muffin ( still out there Richard ? ) asked about a 100hr lease some time ago, anyone else got any bright ideas ?
I'm based in the UK, and need to do a serious amount of hour building in the coming year - 90 hours to get to the 155 to go on the modular CPL(H) course. I then intend doing the FI course ( I'll have over 300TT by then ) so some other person can pay for my flying !!
At some point I want to go abroad, as prices are around the £100 per hour mark, rather than the £160 I'm paying at the moment. However does anyone know of any LEGAL arrangement in use in the UK to provide cheap but SAFE helicopter hour building.
I know muffin ( still out there Richard ? ) asked about a 100hr lease some time ago, anyone else got any bright ideas ?
Guest
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What sort of eggbeater are you flying for £160.00 per hr, you can do your module CPL(H) in the R22 at a lot less cost ,allegedly
get your self in with a Heli school to do all their dogsbody work and repositionings , ala free hours but at a personal cost Freedom gone)
Piston broke!
get your self in with a Heli school to do all their dogsbody work and repositionings , ala free hours but at a personal cost Freedom gone)
Piston broke!
Guest
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Where I fly, because it's limited at the moment, it costs me about £145 +VAT an hour wet - actually £170ish, so a tab more than what I said originally. Dual is £220ish. That IS in an R22.
I'm hoping the company I work for will either IPO ( unlikely in the current climate ) or get bought and the new owners will want to keep people on, in which case I might have enough readies to do the rest of the stuff in one hit.
Where have you heard about "allegedly lots less", £145+VAT seems to be the going rate at most clubs ?
[This message has been edited by The Nr Fairy (edited 16 March 2001).]
I'm hoping the company I work for will either IPO ( unlikely in the current climate ) or get bought and the new owners will want to keep people on, in which case I might have enough readies to do the rest of the stuff in one hit.
Where have you heard about "allegedly lots less", £145+VAT seems to be the going rate at most clubs ?
[This message has been edited by The Nr Fairy (edited 16 March 2001).]
Guest
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My solution was to sell all my toys, buy an R22, rent it to the school I was with and fly myself as often as possible.
The Heli was in pristine condition, its owner only sold it because the 10 yr rebuild was 22 months away.It had 800 hrs remaining of the (then) 2000 hr life.
I was lucky - No major costs, rental income paid for insurance and because the Heli became well known for being a nice one it was easy to sell. Adverts in Helidata get the phone ringing like crazy. Spring/summer in UK = big market for an R22. (Only buy a Beta if you have the choice.)
I sold it with 480 hrs remaining and dropped only 2k on the original price.I had spent around 5k on fuel and so on.
160 hrs in my book = 7k. Want some? Buy one!
The Heli was in pristine condition, its owner only sold it because the 10 yr rebuild was 22 months away.It had 800 hrs remaining of the (then) 2000 hr life.
I was lucky - No major costs, rental income paid for insurance and because the Heli became well known for being a nice one it was easy to sell. Adverts in Helidata get the phone ringing like crazy. Spring/summer in UK = big market for an R22. (Only buy a Beta if you have the choice.)
I sold it with 480 hrs remaining and dropped only 2k on the original price.I had spent around 5k on fuel and so on.
160 hrs in my book = 7k. Want some? Buy one!
Guest
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Nr Fairy,
I'm trying to understand your first post - it sounds as though you're saying you need 90 hours to get to 155, but after the CPL course (30 hours or thereabouts, isn't it?) you'll have 300 hours TT. That doesn't make sense. If I've understood right, you only need 155 hours TT to do the CPL course, including 50 or 55 (can't remember which) P1. Are you thinking you need 155 P1? I'm fairly sure you don't.
Quite a few schools give discounts for payment of a certain number of hours in advance - not a huge amount, but it helps. And if you haven't had a Career Development Loan earlier on, get one - up to £8000 from the government, interest free for two years, sometimes extendable to three.
I'm hoping to go the same route as you if I can pass these damned ground exams so will watch with interest for other ideas.
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Whirly
To fly is human, to hover, divine.
I'm trying to understand your first post - it sounds as though you're saying you need 90 hours to get to 155, but after the CPL course (30 hours or thereabouts, isn't it?) you'll have 300 hours TT. That doesn't make sense. If I've understood right, you only need 155 hours TT to do the CPL course, including 50 or 55 (can't remember which) P1. Are you thinking you need 155 P1? I'm fairly sure you don't.
Quite a few schools give discounts for payment of a certain number of hours in advance - not a huge amount, but it helps. And if you haven't had a Career Development Loan earlier on, get one - up to £8000 from the government, interest free for two years, sometimes extendable to three.
I'm hoping to go the same route as you if I can pass these damned ground exams so will watch with interest for other ideas.
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Whirly
To fly is human, to hover, divine.
Guest
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Whirly :
It's not my maths which is wrong, just that I omitted my 150 or so fixed wing hours. That, plus 135 plus 30 on the modular course takes me over the magic 300 TT for entry to the FI course.
My understanding of the UK CPL(H) (Restricted) is that it's 155 HELICOPTER hours required for the modular course - check documents on the CAA SRG web site at http://www.srg.caa.co.uk/pld/fcl/fcl_information.asp for full details.
As for the finances, although I'm earning well, I've already got a mortgage and large loan so adding another one doesn't seem financially prudent.
P.S. just found the JAR CPL(H) requirements - http://www.srg.caa.co.uk/documents/SRG_FCL_Gid26.pdf
AND, I've only just seen ( don't remember it being in the document before ) if you have a PPL(A) then it's only 135 helicopter hours including 30 P1.
[This message has been edited by The Nr Fairy (edited 18 March 2001).]
It's not my maths which is wrong, just that I omitted my 150 or so fixed wing hours. That, plus 135 plus 30 on the modular course takes me over the magic 300 TT for entry to the FI course.
My understanding of the UK CPL(H) (Restricted) is that it's 155 HELICOPTER hours required for the modular course - check documents on the CAA SRG web site at http://www.srg.caa.co.uk/pld/fcl/fcl_information.asp for full details.
As for the finances, although I'm earning well, I've already got a mortgage and large loan so adding another one doesn't seem financially prudent.
P.S. just found the JAR CPL(H) requirements - http://www.srg.caa.co.uk/documents/SRG_FCL_Gid26.pdf
AND, I've only just seen ( don't remember it being in the document before ) if you have a PPL(A) then it's only 135 helicopter hours including 30 P1.
[This message has been edited by The Nr Fairy (edited 18 March 2001).]
Guest
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Nr Fairy,
Thank you!!!!
I didn't know you could count f/w hours towards the 300 TT. I'm in roughly the same position as you - 120 hours rotary, approx 180 f/w. So IF I can get through these ground exams, do a summer's flying, do the commercial course...
Wow!!!!!!! This is beginning to look like it might be possible.
Except I might end up running out of cash too
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Whirly
To fly is human, to hover, divine.
Thank you!!!!
I didn't know you could count f/w hours towards the 300 TT. I'm in roughly the same position as you - 120 hours rotary, approx 180 f/w. So IF I can get through these ground exams, do a summer's flying, do the commercial course...
Wow!!!!!!! This is beginning to look like it might be possible.
Except I might end up running out of cash too
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Whirly
To fly is human, to hover, divine.
Guest
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Whirly :
I've wanted to fly helicopters since I was very young. Now I'm in a position to get a CPL(H) I'd almost sell my young son to the highest bidder !!
BTW, is there anyone out there who's done ferrying for Sloane to Lisbon / Majorca ? Could you drop me a line at my email - I'm after some info about it.
I've wanted to fly helicopters since I was very young. Now I'm in a position to get a CPL(H) I'd almost sell my young son to the highest bidder !!
BTW, is there anyone out there who's done ferrying for Sloane to Lisbon / Majorca ? Could you drop me a line at my email - I'm after some info about it.
Guest
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hmm interesting. I was only discussing the option of buying an R-22 leasing it to a flying school / letting people use it for self fly hire etc and our figures seemed to work out. We managed to get our own flying down to £65 / hr wet and still have a residual in the aircraft after 2 years - is this realistic? Also on one thread there are loads of posts saying - no commerical heli jobs don't bother and then on this one we are all trying to get CPL(H)'s - who's got it right?
Guest
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there is an interesting and in the rotor & wing magazine about building hour in bell 206 110$ hour. The ad says call bill at 562-691-2878 or email [email protected] It is located in Southern California
I hope this help.
I hope this help.
Guest
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If you're interested in cheap turbine time in the States, I'd highly recommend 'Commander Chuck' Street who flies a news/traffic helicopter for one of the LA radio stations. He covers the entire LA area, from Orange County in the South to Malibu in the North.
I spent a week flying his JetRanger a few years ago and, flying 6-9am, and 3-5pm, did 25 hours in a week.
Great fun - breathtaking views and interesting flying, including following a Police pursuit.
Although much of the flying is S&L, our 'off-air' breaks provided plenty of opportunities to practise pinnacle and confined area landings.
Chuck doesn't advertise 'hours building'. I paid $100 per hour towards the cost of the flight.
If I can find his e-mail address, I'll post it.
If you want more information, please e-mail me. I'd be happy to introduce you.
Tudor Owen
[This message has been edited by Flying Lawyer (edited 25 March 2001).]
I spent a week flying his JetRanger a few years ago and, flying 6-9am, and 3-5pm, did 25 hours in a week.
Great fun - breathtaking views and interesting flying, including following a Police pursuit.
Although much of the flying is S&L, our 'off-air' breaks provided plenty of opportunities to practise pinnacle and confined area landings.
Chuck doesn't advertise 'hours building'. I paid $100 per hour towards the cost of the flight.
If I can find his e-mail address, I'll post it.
If you want more information, please e-mail me. I'd be happy to introduce you.
Tudor Owen
[This message has been edited by Flying Lawyer (edited 25 March 2001).]
Guest
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Guest
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Flying Lawyer you have opened the big can of worms of who is PIC.
As Commander Chuck Street hasn't got a CFI licence who is??? (don't believe he has)
You are flying a flight for hire but it's only Part 91. But if you only have a UK Private can you legally do the flying???
As all PIC is flown in the left seat then who is PIC???
UK regulations require all PIC time to be flown from the commanders seat. I will admit that in the US that isn't the case.
If he has a CFI and you're PIC from the right then all I have written is wrong. Except the Part that he is getting paid from the flight.
I'm sure you will tell me that its all legal but as a qualified US CFI we never recommended it to the European students.
Heard that the UK used to delete time flown on the news flights from total time for a Commercial licence application.
As Commander Chuck Street hasn't got a CFI licence who is??? (don't believe he has)
You are flying a flight for hire but it's only Part 91. But if you only have a UK Private can you legally do the flying???
As all PIC is flown in the left seat then who is PIC???
UK regulations require all PIC time to be flown from the commanders seat. I will admit that in the US that isn't the case.
If he has a CFI and you're PIC from the right then all I have written is wrong. Except the Part that he is getting paid from the flight.
I'm sure you will tell me that its all legal but as a qualified US CFI we never recommended it to the European students.
Heard that the UK used to delete time flown on the news flights from total time for a Commercial licence application.
Guest
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Rotorbike
I don't think Chuck is an instructor, and the rest of what you say may be right.
He owns the JetRanger, is a journalist and, I think, receives payment for his news/traffic reports not for flying/supplying the helicopter
I have CAA and FAA private licences, and did it for the experience not to build hours towards a commercial licence.
Anyone who needs to count the hours towards a CPL should obviously check the legal position with the CAA.
Re Left seat/Right seat.
My understanding, from informal discussions with the CAA, is that they take a sensible approach to this issue. eg They know PPLs building hours often share a helicopter and, provided they each log only the time they flew, that time can be logged as P1.
I stress that comes from informal discussions.
[This message has been edited by Flying Lawyer (edited 25 March 2001).]
I don't think Chuck is an instructor, and the rest of what you say may be right.
He owns the JetRanger, is a journalist and, I think, receives payment for his news/traffic reports not for flying/supplying the helicopter
I have CAA and FAA private licences, and did it for the experience not to build hours towards a commercial licence.
Anyone who needs to count the hours towards a CPL should obviously check the legal position with the CAA.
Re Left seat/Right seat.
My understanding, from informal discussions with the CAA, is that they take a sensible approach to this issue. eg They know PPLs building hours often share a helicopter and, provided they each log only the time they flew, that time can be logged as P1.
I stress that comes from informal discussions.
[This message has been edited by Flying Lawyer (edited 25 March 2001).]
Guest
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New user here.I saw a reply to someone looking to build turbine time,that in Los Angeles,California,there was a company that would provide you a B206 at $110.00 per hour.The person replying was a fellow going by the nickname of ROTORBIKE.He mentioned also something about "traffic watch".Was this just a comment as to what would someone be doing while building up the time?Or,was this a condition to using the helo at such low rates.Msg posted back in 1999,probably "rotorbike" is not around to comment.Anybody else heard about this?Thanks.