There was an instructor in Melbourne who started to learn to fly the day after he retired as a school principal at age 55. He went on to have a long career until he could no longer renew his medical at 70 and unfortunately died of cancer at 71. That's 15 years that he was a career instructor. I also know of a few people who got in to regional airlines in their late 40's.

You want to fly as professional pilot but, instructor or airline ?

instructor, not too old...

airline, in theory, not too old, but in practice, yes for sure... :bored:

I believe it's all down to who you know (and where you are absed). If the sky is gonna bless you with one of those once-in-a-lifetime meeting with "someone", then you can make it. It's the same hope I have, starting at 43 with no other options in life than aviation. So I cross fingers for both of us :}

Not too old
 

Airlines usually have a cut-off age for hiring (about 55), but there are plenty of other jobs out there with no age limit - flight instructor, search and rescue, corporate and charter, forestry, law enforcement, immigration. The most important thing is passing the medical exam.

In other words, the more interesting flying jobs, if not necessarily the best paid.

Personally, given a free range of full time pilot jobs, airline would be pretty near the bottom. Test would be up the top, probably followed by SAR, instructor and fishery patrol.

G

The question is - do you want to be a FI? So many do (did?) it as a stepping stone and can't stand the job...

Nowadays age is something a bit more flexible than before...

Who has never met somebody who looks 30 while he is 45?

Some people at 45 are extremely smart, have a lot of energy, are very healthy, and honestly there is nothing much they couldn't do/learn.
When in addition life gave the same ones some money, and some social skills (how to network, how to pass an interview...), that's very hard to tell them their age is an obstacle, when this is already a psychologic obstacle, not necessarily a real one.

Some people at 45 are already old, unefficient, but those were probabely always like that... Sorry to be a bit harsh.

My very point is this one: it depends on the individual! Not really on the age.
Some are even better at 40 than at 20, yes it does exist. It means some people actually could start a pilot career at 40, when they would have never been able in their 20s...

Here are my rules for aviation and age:

-the younger the better, don't try to get some back up plan that would postpone your career by 5 years, useless! You still can get you back up plan later if something goes wrong with aviation (maybe even be financed for that!), otherwise why calling it a back up plan!?
-When older, there is no real age limit we can give, it all depends on the individual, some are more than able to start any kind of career in there 40s (especially if they are ready to move a bit around the world), some are not.
-Don't put your familly in financial danger.
-Don't build some psychologic obstacles, age itself shouldn't be a barrier.
-Motivation and skills are usually more important than age, and are not necessarily linked bellow 50 (well, after 77, that's an other story if you believe the neuropsychologists...).

Some numbers that can help you:
-the average age when a Nobel prize scientist did his most important work in his life is 48 years old.
-I personaly know somebody who got his first airline job at 45, on wide body.
-My oldest student (when I was flight instructor) was 55, and I sent him solo within a very normal time experience.

When it is true, in theory, that you are more able and smarter when younger, it is also true that some individuals are strong self improvers, and are actually more efficient when a bit older than when they were younger.

Now about the industry hiring age policy: there is no rules. Some would set an age limit, other companies wouldn't, some will set limits around 45, everything is possible, but you will always find a company able to hire you if you have the good profil, and obviously if the airline is hiring.
Most flight schools have no age limit to hire instructors.
Think about ultra lights aswell, where sometimes the salary is better than PPL instructors...

That being said, whatever you age, it remains a tricky industry.
Right now, if you are able to move around, it doesn't look that bad. Even though you can find thousands and thousands jobless pilots (wannabes and experienced), there is still some possible ways. Australia is hiring, Canada too, a bit less maybe, NZ is hiring, Asia is hiring, middle east, Africa aswell is hiring its share of bush pilots, whatever we can say about it. Some other places too.
Western Europe and US are hiring very little with a lot of pilots in furlough.

Like you see, it is more an industry problem than an age issue.

The way I see it, in addition, is that around 2015-2020 oil will be so expensive that low cost aviation will start to stop its activity, and the world economy will have to face a bigger economy crisis that the one we are experiencing now.
Further more, airplanes in the future won't need pilots to fly, whatever we can say about it, this time will come, sooner or later. Could be sooner than most people might think... Bush aviation however, will still need pilots, but it would make this career a dying one.

Very well said KAG, I agree with every word.

G

Is a new career in aviation possible or a dream aged 40+
 

Hi all,

I've recently taken a couple of flying lessons and have caught the flying bug. I'd love to pursue a career as a pilot but have a few concerns. I am currently a soldier coming to the end of my colour service and so will have a pension to fall back on as well as a substantial lump sum to help towards costs of gaining a fATPL. I am concerned that after serving 22 years to earn this lump sum I may end up using it to gain a licence with little or no chance of gaining gainful employment as a pilot at the end.

Is my age (40) likely to hamper my chances of employment? Do airlines of other flight companies like taking on ex service personel? and are there any jobs out there???? having read a few threads on the subject it doesn't look good.

Any advice and guidance will be greatly appreciated.:ok:

Depends, where would you live and where would you want to work?

I live in South east England, and would hope to work around London.

Hi Bikerwo,

Being 40+ shouldn't hinder you too much,I got my break at 38 with a TP company. I'm still with them, but in the left hand seat.

I'm also ex services and the former chief pilot was ex RAF and liked the forces guys.

Our company would like to hire more older guys due to them sticking around longer than the younger ones who have an eye on the big shiney jets.

There's definately movemment in the profession at the moment, just have a think of who you expect to fly for.

Finally someone has caught on to the fact that the over 35s are worth hiring :).

I started training at 32 and got my break at 35/36 in a TP company in Europe, so I did get a job and I do love it. The downside is I'm not at home as much as I'd like, the exchange rate is annoying. I can't afford to be too picky as I'm now past the point where some airlines start to look at your age in a negative light. You would have more options open to you if you were younger, you'll be about 42 or 43 by the time you're ready to get a job and it's a massive gamble.

The other thing to remember is despite the fact that you dont feel any different to what you did when you were 20 your ability to learn is somewhat diminished so it's going to take longer and with a fair bit more work than the young ones take to get through it. More expense to consider and 21 year olds sitting in your brush up class telling you how easy everything is does not stop being annoying.

That in mind, you would still be able to get a job, but you wont be able to be too picky about it and you may have to accept working a distance from home on a commuting contract.

Thanks, finally a bit of positive news, all I've read to date is doom and gloom.

Excuse the stupid question but what is tp?

It means a turbo prop as opposed to jet aircraft.

Hi blueskisup,

Not that it's all about the money, but what sort of annual wage would I be looking at starting with a TP company?

Oh and thanks all for the replies.

Just a quick Q.

Why you looking at TP & possible jets?

I suggest you could start with even going the instructor route if you just like flying!

You need to see what your aims are look at your options, it may give posters on here more scope to answer your questions

If its purely TP's or jets, good luck anyway.

BikerTwo,

Firstly welcome to the world of aviation and welcome to PPRUNE.

It is not unheard of to get a job at 40 plus. As has been mentioned, it does narrow down your options in the jobs that will be available to you when you finish your licences. There are airlines around, as said, typically TP operators that will look favourably on more mature pilots. I have known a couple of guys to get jobs with Biz jet operators too. I am sure you have done more research, but in this game its all about timing and getting to know the right people. Of course flying jets will be a little more tricky, purely because in this day and age you will need experience before you are eligible to apply for those types of jobs.

As an First Officer on a TP and depending on the airline you can typically earn anything from around £23K upwards, Captains will earn £40K plus.

All the best with it.

Bikerwo, you'll be looking at around 20-25k in the first three or four years. The progression to Captain can be quite fast in these wee airlines so you could expect a reasonable 40-60k depending on what you're flying but your long term earning potential will not rise much above that.

It's not all smiles though but I can only go based on my own experience as an elderly FO (hah!)

R1flyguy35,

My aim, like many would be to begin a career as a pilot, if I was to go down this route instructing would not pay sufficient to pay the mortgage. That said of course it would be great for getting hours up and keeping in the air.

Career wise Wouldn't be too bothered by flying TP or jets, clearly jets offers the money and lifestyle but,I'm not that naive to think that would be easy to get into, plus providing I earn enough to pay the bills, my pension will provide the rest.


Magicmick,

Thanks for the post, great to hear of the experience of ex forces guys, both + and -, gives me more info to base decisions on. Did resettlement cover a lot of your PPL? Didn't think the scheme would go that far, great if it does though.

Again the thanks to all those who replied, I really value any and all opinions.

For what I have learned so far, planning and wondering what is best and what is not is a waste of time. I believe everyone over 40 with no aviation experience (like myself) should just start somewhere and leave the future to its chances. Start flying and later on you can begin wondering "what if". By thinking about the possible job opportunities you just wait for someone to take your place.

Hi Bikerwo

The only part of my PPL and night rating that I had to pay for was the return flight to Florida. I trained at a place called Ormond Beach Aviation, I think that it's called EASA Flight Training now. At the time the school owner was an ex army infantry Sergeant who had left the military, flown commercially for a while and then started his own flying school. As ex military he understood the resettlement payments system very well and tailored the course prices to match the resettlement entitlements as best he could. Not sure if he's still the boss out there now but if you do a search on OBA or EASA within PPRuNe you'll find a lot of feedback on the school, some very positive and some very negative with very little feedback in the middle.

Hi bikerwo

Just seen some info that might be of interest to you, please check your PMs

Knew a guy ....... Took his first flying lesson at 36.... Got his cpl and instructor rating at 38..... Gave up his lucrative insurance business to instruct full time cos he enjoyed it so much.... 6 years later an expanding airline called him up to interview.... He was employed as a co-pilot of a a320 at age 44 .... That was 6 years ago .... 2 years ago at 48... He completed his command course.....skipper of a a320 at 48..... Granted he was at the right place and right time..... Doesn't mean it can't happen for u!!!!! Gd luck....indeed it is never too late

Magicmic... you weren't a military pilot, you had to work for a living... what the hell did that mean ?

Have I left it too late?
 

Hi all,

Always wanted this to be my career path and in 2006 I got close to running the process of applying to the Easyjet scheme. However due to varying family and other circumstances at the time I put a pin in it.....

I'm 33 before the end of the week and would literally be starting from scratch! Have I left it too late?

Honest opinions please gang - I can take bad news!

You only get one shot in life so why not take it? If you don't you'll only end up always thinking 'if only I'd........'

As long as you have the finances and family/personal stability why not.

I'm sure they'll be loads of cynics telling you not to because it may not have worked out for them, but see if it'll work for you.

Good luck and go for it:D

Very few people these days are going straight from flying schools into airline jobs. You will need something extra. For me that was flying instruction.

I instructed for three years. I probably could've pushed for an airline job earlier, I delayed my IR and MCC courses, but ultimately I loved instructing, and held out for the airline job I really wanted. The reality is that as a flying instructor that you just don't earn enough money to get by, and it will be a shock if you're leaving a well paid job.

So if you have the budget to not only pay for all the flight training required, CPL IR etc, but also other ratings such as instructor, and then still be able to live for a few years on a reduced wage, then go for it.

Don't take this post the wrong way, I'm not being cynical or anything. I love the airline job I am in now, it was well worth all the sacrifices I made, and I'm well on track to being debt free by 30. But the realistic truth is that you need to budget for a lot more than just your CPL/IR, and as long as you go into it aware of this, then go for it.

Have I left it too late?
 

I started when I was 32. Hard work and a couple of lucky breaks now loving my career choice and never looked back.
Will have to expect a lot of disappointment and economy hasn't hit the business in full yet but good luck !!!

I couldnt agree more with what has been written above. I started instructing at 30, and joined Bmi at the age of 32. I went across to BA last May with the integration and am now enjoying working for the flag carrier of Britain.

I was only with a friend today who almost lost his life to Cancer, and one thing that came up in our conversation was striving for your dreams and dont look back, life is too short.

Of course your circumstances have to be right, and you have to want to succeed. It wont be easy, but for me and a lot of others here the benefits are worth the sacrifices as long as you are sensible.

I wish you all the best.

Gamble or not hmm
 

Chapes/ chapettes
Just give you my take on this .

I started commercial training at 38 , now 43. This was following a career in the RAF as an Engineer and a longer career as a cop.

A the time I started my training (early2008) Things were okay but to thems what was in the know it was just about pre-recession days.

I chose the modular route for my own well researched reasons . But about 3 months into the GS Excel went tits up and that for me really signalled the start of the current decline in the industry .

It took me just over a year . I did not have hour building to do as I had had a PPL for many years so hour building had been done by default really.

Luckily for me I had a friend who owned a flying school and had always promised me a job should I gain an FIR. So this is what I did . The poor chap who was my training partner of the FIC in 2009 hasnt flown since and has gone back to being a teacher , he was 38.

Unfortunately as a lot of instructors will tell you flying schools can be run by shysters and it is very difficult to gain good salary ,good working conditions and fair play. A such I did it for two years and thoroughly enjoyed it teaching everyhting up to the CPL/IR. I got sick of not being paid and being trated like a txxt because money was talking more than quality flight training.

I was then fortunate enough to get a job flying Air Ambulance and Single pilot freight ops . This is awesome flying and the experience is fantastic . It doesnt pay very well but its a sellers market . I managed as a result of this to get into the hold pool for a large cargo carrier and am just awaiting a call.

So for me the gamble payed off and one line of work has led me to the other , almost in the career ladder that we saw ten fifteen years ago, which no longer really exists .

Older guys note , there are chaps on here like me who have had a lucky break , but there are far more who havent and are back in their old jobs having to do IR and ME renewals every 12 months .

Our life experience is not valued by airlines nor it is desired . Companies like CTC have monopolies on feeding lambs to the expensive slaughter that is flexi crew and such like , and RYR are assisting in pissing on the industry with PTF schemes etc etc . This is not going to change , its a brave new world . But even these schemes are not interested in PILOTs or older guys they want young folk with daddies money who can be manipulated to whatever end the carrier wishes .

Obviously there are exceptions and occasionally you hear of good luck stories . But of the 15 folk in my initial GS class virtually all are working for RYR those that arent are either instructing or back to old day jobs . And intrestingly all the RYR guys were all under 29 everyone else was above 30 .

There are kids playing hopscotch and conkers in schools throughout the land who have yet to even think of a career choice who have a better chance of flying a jet for an airline than I do . I am 43 with 2100 hrs mostly ghastly overnight flying in a steam driven twin in all weathers , but this counts for nowt . So before you think about giving up your career at a certain age just think about how a 200 hr 40 yr old is going to stack up against a 20 yr old with same blue book .

Like I say I was very very lucky and it worked out for me. But I get calls all the time from friends I trained with friends I met along the way who are all out of work , think about it very very carefully before you leap .

Good luck to all who attempt this , despite the fxxk about factor I love my job , I will never be a millionaire but I get to fly a reasonable sized aircraft every day (almost) on my own around the country , so for me it worked
Take care

And another old starter here with my story.

Started modular ATPL course in '99 at the age of 38. After completion, had an 8 month hiatus applying to everyone and doing some temporary jobs. Got a job with a UK turboprop operator aged 39, 737 a couple of years later and command at 45. Now flying a 777 somewhere hot.

So it is possible to start late and still have a fair crack at the aviation thing but I would add some caveats. I was very lucky with timing - 9/11 happened about 8 months into my first job; if it had happened before I started, I doubt that I would have got that first break.

Also, when I did my ATPL course, the whole thing cost me about £20k and not the £100k that people are paying nowadays. I did not have to borrow money, remortgage a house or otherwise compromise my family's welfare in order to satisfy my curiosity.

I have been lucky and have the luxury of viewing the job from a perspective of having done it. I have enjoyed aspects of it but the reality of aviation nowadays is that low cost flying soon wears thin and is exhausting while long-haul flying tends to be boring and unhealthy. I am grateful to have 'scratched the itch' but consider myself fortunate that I do not have to fly until 60 to meet my financial commitments.

Would I want my kids to become pilots? No. Would I recommend a 38 year old with a viable career to risk a lot to try it? No. Should a 38 year old with sufficient means commit 2 years and £100k in order to give it a go? Sure, why not?

Not trying to be glib and I know that if you have the dream then there is an urge to try it. Just talk to some guys who have been doing the job for a few years before you commit.

this is the one thing that has always scared me and put me off doing what ive always wanted...

im now 31 and keep thinking the longer i leave it the more chance ive got of never realising something that i should have done in my 20's.. i work for a large uk supermarket chain as a bakery manager and althought the money is ok its not the job i ever wanted [as are most jobs]. but ther eis always in the back of my mind 'what if' and now im getting to a point where i should just sell my old vw campervan and my bike and jump into the modular route, take some time off work and go and do as much as i can before my money runs out then work work work until i can afford to do more. im thinking if i do it i could be fully trained f/atpl and with some decent hours behind me by 35-37 which id be hoping still gives me a crack at a career...

im not interested in earning the megabucks just doing the job ive dreamt off and paying the bills would be enough.

Age is less of an issue these days.

The question is always:

Can you afford to no income for 2 years +

Do you have £80k - £100k

Can you then afford to live on a salary that's probably mid-£20k's


I'd say age is less of a factor than it was a decade ago, but the T&Cs (especially the longer term earnings potential) are very different. I seem to remember people joining Air2k on £40k well over a decade ago

thats what i meant in regard to the money - i could happily live on a mid 20's salary but as we all do we always want more :)

and yes its been a dream to fly but i aint a silverspoon kid ive got a crappy old splitscreen van to sell that would part fund some of the training and the rest id work my arse off to get...

my only regret is not starting it in my 20's

With all due respect to the posters giving positive stories and advising you to go for your dream because 'you only live once', do not do it unless you can afford to waste £60-100,000.

I could give you another 'success story'. I trained at 30 and was extremely lucky to get a job within 9 months of finishing my training.

BUT I had a back-up plan. A good alternative career and a wife with a good enough job to pay all the bills.

There are far MORE people who had the dream, trained and then found themselves in an unemployed nightmare than those who can give you happy stories. They are not on Pprune. They do not come here anymore.

AGE IS MORE OF AN ISSUE THESE DAYS. Very people get into the industry through the traditional flight instructor, air taxi, bizjets, turbo prop route because those parts of the industry have nose-dived.

The only other routes are the locos who are ageist these days - they take sub-30 year olds - or the cadet schemes at companies like BA. Both these recruitment drives can afford to be highly selective and except for the odd exceptional candidate, they will look for young and talented candidates.

I may cop some flak for being so negative, but I honestly would not take the risk if I were an older person. There are already far more qualified pilots than there are jobs.

While I don't doubt that's true, it doesn't have to be quite so 'all or nothing'. Your other option is training on a modular basis while keeping your existing career going. I totally agree giving up 18 months of income and £80k to OAA/CTC seems ludicrous (unless you're on a tagged scheme, or BA FPP).

I guess the hope is that the market will open up again at the lower end over the next two or three years in some shape or form. My plan is to get the CPL finished off, and then take a view on whether its worth ploughing ahead with the MEIR and/or FI(A).

Worst case scenario I'll end up with an fATPL I can't use, continue with my existing career and just keep flying as a hobby, perhaps doing some instructing.

If you don't try you'll never know!

That has been the hope since 2006 and thousands of people have trained for the ATPL since then. Thousands have not been employed.

I was tidying up the other day and came across my modular training quote: £37,000. With extras it was more like £45,000. It's the cheapest route and, in my opinion, the most fun way to get the licence. Also, at any stage you can stop if job prospects look to to be deteriorating.

True, but only take the gamble if you can afford for it to go wrong. The odds are stacked against you. Plan to be out of work for a year at least and be pleasantly surprised if you get lucky!

Too Old To Start Aviation Career at age 40??
 

So here I find myself at 40, laid off after years working in a field I was never crazy about. How time flies! I obtained my PPL when I was 17 but haven't flown since college--sports and a full academic load had me consumed. I always planned to go back to aviation but I landed a lucrative career out of college and ran for the money, after accumulating debt. 15 years later here I am.

The aviation industry was pretty weak when I got out of college (mid 90s)...another reason I opted for a desk job.

I have NO IDEA what the industry is like today. But aviation is and always has been my primarily interest. I'd love to fly, and am open to the possibilities--airlines, charters, corporate, other.

1- Is it a bad idea to pursue this at my age?

2- If not what are suggested routes to take?

3- What sectors in aviation are most likely to hire someone in my situation?

4- I have been on zoloft for a year (it's like prozac). I have ZERO history of mental illness, I've just had bouts of depression (probably from my boring day job, LOL). Will being on zoloft prevent me from obtaining a PPL or getting hired in the industry? If so, could I stop taking zoloft and proceed with aviation (or is it one of those deals where if you've been on it before, you're out)?

Thanks so much. The help would be beyond appreciated!

FIRST, speak with an FAA Flight Surgeon on Zoloft and depression, it MAY b limiting or disqualifying depending on the class of physical. You MUST be able to hold a Class I for most commercial flying. Technically, a Class II will be OK, but Class I is required for any airline job.

Then, realize, you are starting from scratch, long, long row to hoe. One that is very expensive. You'll need about $50,000 to $65,000 to get remotely employable. Any airline job requires an ATP and means 1500 hours gained by dint of low paying instructing.