Ah yes, but the 'no ties' 21 year old will always be looking for his next move!!!!

The 'OLD?' 42 Year old will possibly give many many years of loyal 'mortgage paying, kids' feeding' service!!

He's an attractive option! ( with a good 20 years of work in the old man yet! ) Again: Some Operations definitely prefer this profile.

Gotta go: I'm off to MRU :)

BN

The perpetual "Am I too old?" question 2009
 

Well I've just been made redundant from a senior civil service post so am re-evaluating my career options. One of the possibilities I'm considering is retraining as a pilot. Simple question, am I too old to start down that route at 44?
Cheers
David

You will retire before the oil peak, just perfect ;)

Evening Davkt

Im not that clued up on the ATPL side of things, i suppose it depends on what route you want to go down.

You could go the whole hog and put a large financial and time investment into a heavy commercial career, maybe some more experianced posters may point you in the right direction for that advice.

I know a few people who came out of long service jobs at 40-50 and went into aviation, two flight instructors at our club for example.

I sometimes think that at 29, i'm too old to be running down the commercial route, especially when you see these young lads/lasses driving the big stuff!!!:bored:

If you fancy it, go for it!:ok:

I have to say that I can't believe anyone is looking at commercial aviation at the moment and thinking that it looks like a good move. If you have the resources to take a punt and it's what you want to do, go for it, but I wouldn't fancy your chances. A good mate of mine, of a similar age to you, completed his CPL/IR/MCC with a creditable performance about a year ago. He has not had a single interview, let alone a job offer, and has decided to cut his losses, not renew his IR, and return to his previous job.

Unfortunately, many commercial operators favour youth in ab initio pilots, and even for those with age on their side, job prospects are dire. Between now and your mandatory retirement age you will probably make more money as a binman than a pilot. Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

Not at all David; IMO age has become rather less significant in recent times.. Infact, your age might even find favour with some employers. More, given your senior civil service experience and the 'golf bag' of skill that brings to the interview.

Good luck.

BN

Can't see you landing a job until you are at least 50 and you may be too old by then.

At 44 I am now starting to realise that I am already half way through my career!!!

However, would I start at this age?

I would say that I would, but subject to what I wanted to get out of it.

I have zero interest in flying the heavy metal. I am at heart a GA pilot and if I was in your position and was passionate about wanting a flying career then I would suggest a GA career is the way to go. It is possible to get into the big jets at this age but the reality is that the opportunities are slim.

Unfortunately too many people still see those of us who are over 30 as being too old to do somethng else with ourselves. I fully believe that if you really want something and are 110% committed to it then you should go for it.

However, at 44 after a previous career to Senior Level you have been made redundant and are looking for a new career path.

Have you asked yourself why you have waited so long to become a professional pilot?
Do you have any flying experience?
Do you have the support of your family?
Can you really afford to use your savings to spend 2 -3 years getting qualified and finding a suitable job?
Are you prepared to travel?
What do you want to fly, aeroplanes or helicopters?
Would your temperament allow you to go back to the bottom after being so close to the top?
Could you take instruction from a young 20 something instructor?
Wold you take the instructor route?
Could you instruct?

And very importantly. would flying allow you to plan a future where in effect you would only have around 15 years in the career to work with as a professional under present European rules?

Etc, etc......................

Flying is great fun . To some it is a vocation, something that you live and breathe and cannot do without. It is to me and to many that I know.

But I also know many others who grew up wanting to be pilots, got into the system and now find it is not for them and in certain cases simply do not enjoy it anymore, but need to stick with it because it is all they know or are too scared to take the jump and find something else to do.

I had one friend like this. He hated flying commercially, was still a permanent FO when I last heard about him and would have been much happier person and pilot if he had stuck to his original career path and remained a PPL.

I personally have gotten everything and more that I have wanted from my career. I have been in the military as aircrew, I have been an instructor, I am qualified to fly rotary and fixed wing, I have managed to work in other areas of aviation such as ATC, avionics, operations, etc. Everything I have done was based on the goal of achieving something new and developing an all round portfolio and it has gotten me into what I consider the best job any pilot could ask for. But I started at 16, married in my 30's so my single days were filled with flying and those other traditionally associated sports involving members of the flying community but not alway airborne :rolleyes:

Good luck with your decision. Let us know what you decide.

:ok:

I know of 3 chaps about your age that just got 'proper' flying jobs on biz jets. If you do take the plunge just make sure you have accounted for the worst case scenario...never getting a flying job.

Go modular :)

Just my view
 

I think your answer depends upon where you see the industry in 2 years when you will be looking for a job and how much of a fallback plan you have if you don't get a flying job.

The majority of the industry are slightly ageist with a few exceptions - I know Flybe, BA and Jet 2 have all taken low hours entry approaching 40 and Flybe I know really don't care how old you are, fully recognising life experience can be a great asset on the flight-deck (I joined low hours at 38)

However I do believe that I only got the interview as an older chap because I went integrated and was recommended by OATS at a time when the airlines were approaching the flying schools wanting pilots. I do believe that if you are older and would prefer to go for airlines rather than spending years working your way up from instructing (which is fine if you're 22 but not so great if you're 40 with kids and a mortgage) then the extra £10k by going integrated made little different to the loan repayments and a world of difference in helping me secure employment.

It's just my experience,

Desk-pilot

does age MATTER???? thats the big question
 

So im a bit confused whether age matters in this industry. im 23 going onto 24 and been thinking for the past year about doing flight training from ppl all the way up to ATPL.. i tried to get into a school in march this year but missed the pass mark by 1 point to get accepted, so i been searching around for other schools US,Europe,Australia,South pacific, South Africa etc but i ask myself do i need to do it now?

theres still so much of the world i want to see and do, do i really want to sit down and do 2 years of intense studying and training right now and then try work, when i can possible do it later on in my life? As i said ill be 24 in couple months so im not getting any younger and few of my pilot friends tell me i should start straight away with training while i can as i dont have many obligations right now rent, own a car, wife,kids etc

So i was wondering is it ok to hold off flight training for 2 or maybe 4 years and come back into it later in life when im say 28 and then bust out 2 years training?

any insight to this would be much appreciated.

safe flying

AMD?
 

Age is a very OLD question (excuse the weak and accidental pun) and has been covered ad infinitum.

Have a look at the sticky thread at the top of this section with READ FIRST BEFORE YOU POST A QUESTION in the title for some links to a few of the very numerous previos threads on age.

Ps I was 29 when I started training

hey thanks for reply. so what you flying now? im just worried that companies will take the younger guy over older and more knowledgeable.

trust me ive been in that sticky and tried those threads and all i got was this "No Thread specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator" and thats it or i wouldn't be asking this question again.

anyways thanks agin for replying.
safe flying

Well, there could be mileage in some thread creep in establishing the oldest 'newbie'.

I was 41 when I started pilot training, my training partner was 45. Go see the world and come back when the industry is in a healthier state.

Even better, choose another career. I am afraid the bean counters and fun police have :mad: this one!

Good luck

In some countries, age is an issue, or perhaps more correctly "age commensurate with experience".

eg, in Australia, starting at 40 would be considered too old to have a viable career where as 25 is better, 20 ideal. (Note, these are generalisations)

You will need a "buffer" in your age, that is, you need to be young enough to weather the financial storms that blow every 7-10 years dumping pilots onto the market. It is therefore a smart move not to be carrying too much debt so you are flexible in where you go and what job you pick up.

Research the countries where you intend to work and find out their normal hiring policy.

Holding off for a couple of years won't hurt so long as you save your money so you can hit it full time. Otherwise, you may as well start sooner and do it part time.

The perpetual 'Am I too old?' thread - 2010
 

This is a collation of the posts since 2009 and any subsequent thread will be merged here.

Halfwayback

Hi All,

I've been reading Pprune for a quite a while, never really having the guts to post my questions.

I'm a little excited waiting for the footie to kick off, in a little under an hour so optimistically excited about things,,,so here goes:

In line with this thread, and I too old to re-train as a pilot.

I'm 32, an accountant
wanting to go modular, in order to speed up/down my training in line with industry recovery/downsides
oh, and I'm a girl

you thoughts please?

Thank you

At 32 for the UK market, you're not too old.
Personally, I would make sure I have finished by 35 though.
Again, this is just my opinion, I don't do recruiting.

Gender is not an issue with your colleagues or employers. You may have minor issues with some of the destinations but I have workarounds for that.

Now, being an accountant? That's your major hurdle. ;)

Thanks Redsnail,,,I appreciate your comments
Yep, heard all the jokes associated with being one of "them" ;)
Agree with 35 being the target.
Apologies, for sounding a little confused or dim, but what do you mean by maybe having minor issues with some of the destinations?
As for your workarounds, I'm all ears,,,,,,,,,,

Oh destinations where women aren't an equal citizen. I just tell the FO what we need (consult etc) and let him deal with the person who won't talk to me.

Easier than getting angry.

Ah ha. Gotcha!
Learnt a few crucial points about you from your last post.
Very inspiring.
Thanks for your words to my original post. I needed to hear them from someone in the business.
Regards
Miss B

Reddo ... you cruisin' for a bruisin'? :}

Cheers

Whirls

How old is too old?
 

Hey guys!

Just heard from a chap who got charged a load of money for a Ryanair interview/sim check, and was then told "off the record" that he was too old for the job anyway - and that no-one else would be interested..:ugh:

He is 36.

This has got me worried:{ - I'm 33 this month and can't start the CPL until my wife finishes her maternity leave in 6 months time - so I'm going to be pushing it and probably end up in the same situation! :(

So - realistically, what are the age limits? Can I still break into the industry in my mid 30s - and more to the point... how?

Thanks in advance for all constructive comments!

TSR22 (I know the extra 2 shouldn't be there - it was a typo I couldnt change..!!)

P.S. Not just thinking about the big jets here - turboprops would suit me just fine..

Utter :mad:

There is still every chance that you will make a good career in aviation starting in your mid 30's. You still have 30+ years left to fly.

Some operators prefer older career changers as they can bring more to the position than a 20 y/o who has never worked anywhere else before.

If that really is the case for FR, it explains why I haven't heard from them, oh well their loss and has saved me £30k + !!.

:)

I have completed my CPL, and I am 40. (Profile typo). I have heard of pilots over 40 getting jobs with Ryanair, if that is your goal. Personally I would not mind working for them, once you get going I don't think is that bad.

There will be mixed messages on this, but you are defo not to old now, or in 6 months. TP seems to have maybe more chances, just cross our fingers and hope for the best.
Retirement age is 65, so there is still few years left to get some flying done. At the moment there are no jobs anyway, so not really a major rush. But get going with the ATPL's and class 1 medical - and take it from there. CPL you do in one month, the ATPL's is a different story.
Had a newborn baby when I started - after a while your wife will maybe not appreciate so much the studies - because they really become time consuming. Did them in 6 months, full time - distance learning can be hard for some, but things you should get out of the way as soon as possible. Then you can see if it is still for you.
Also instructing is an option for the future, not now at the moment, but when the airlines start hiring that will probably be the first step in the right direction to get enough experience.

Don't worry, I was 31 when I started and 33 when I got my 1st airline job (via a bit of instructing).
Your age makes you interesting and there are other airlines out there. TP - as mentioned - are a good option and Jet2 are a good bet (when they recruit again).

Am I too old at 32 to become an airline pilot?
 

Hi, I need some advice.

I'm 32 and have been accepted to train at a UK Training Academy. My concern is my age. When I finish my training I will be nearly 34 and I have been told that I will struggle to find a job with a good airline such as Easyjet, Ryaniar, BA. etc because of my age.

I need honest advice from people in the industry who were the around the same age as me before I spend £75,000 and end up struggling.

Thanks

Hi Aviator78

First of all I just want to say, Don't be concerned about your age.. you are not too old. in fact your age could work out to be an advantage in landing a job after your training. Many airlines out there value real world experience especially if your experience is seen as something that will make you a better/more mature pilot.

Having said that I would like to bring to your attention that finding a flying job can be very difficult even with thousands of hours of experience and more so when you are stating out. So be prepared for a lot of rejection until you land that first Job.

1 last bit of advice.. If you do decide to take the leap then be very sure that it is what you really want to do because life as a pilot means you will probably need to sacrifice many little things that one takes for granted when working a 9 to 5 job.

I wish you success in whatever road you decide to take.

Absolutely not.

But the wiser question (and you've alluded to it yourself) is, "Am I young enough to spend £75k on a qualification, and maybe still have to find a new way to pay my bills?"

Good luck.

CG

REPOSTED....

Your age will not be a hindrance to you getting a job.
However...remember that despite the glossy brochures and the "holier-than-the-rest" flight school that is Oxford Aviation, they are simply not in a position to offer, guarantee, find, assist or garner you a job in any way.

If they are so concerned about your age being a factor then I have two questions:

Why are they "approving" or "accepting" you on the course?

Why are you agreeing to risk 75 grand on training?

The fact is, you can get your training done for a hell of a lot less and STILL HAVE AN EQUAL CHANCE OF GETTING A JOB AT THE END OF IT ALL!

This bull**** about where you go to school being influential on where you get a job has to stop.
Consumer watchdogs take note.

This business is all about WHO you know!
Those of you who got into a flying gig without an internal contact, number a very lucky few.
Everyone else....knew someone on the inside.

That, my dear wannabes, is the reality of the industry you are entering.
If you are not good at making friends and networking.....you'll be a paper-pilot forever!

Farrell

41 this year and have been flying the 737 for just under 5 years. Stop making excuses. The only risk is yourself and how determined you really are. Plenty of older pilots in our company.

Regards

Flying really is a young mans game these days, for a number of reasons. Firstly the pay is pretty crap when you take into account the loss of weekends, Christmases, kids birthdays, important events, getting up early being away from home etc etc.

Younger pilots starting say in their early to mid 20’s have the age advantage. By that I mean they can take a job to build their hours and then move on to a better carrier not caring about things like seniority. They could get a few thousand hours in Ryanair and jump across to someone like BA (assuming they were hiring), sit in the RHS for arguments sake for 10 years on a 777 seeing the world and then still only be in their mid 30’s when command comes around. Seniority isn’t really a factor for them as they will have approximately 25-30 years in the LHS once promoted to move up the list and enjoy all of the benefits that entails. They could also have spent a few years in the sandpit building up their experience before heading back to Western Europe. Nothing would have been wasted as they were young enough to enjoy the experience.

Remember that the days of quick commands are gone for now. There are long lists and a wait of 8-10 years at most of the airlines these days as recruitment and expansion has dried up. ICAO has pushed out the retirement age which means the guy sitting in the LHS isn’t going anywhere fast. Even more so since their pension has probably been decimated in the current recession and they will need to be working longer to save for retirement. That means you will be in your mid to late 40’s at the earliest before you see a command. You will more than likely be flying as a 40 year old f/o with a captain who could be 10 years or more your junior and will have 30 years of sitting in the LHS that you want so much. If you decide to switch airlines then you drop to the bottom of the seniority list and may never see a command and be a career f/o so to a degree you will be hamstrung.

Now I am not saying that anyone in their mid 30’s or later shouldn’t become an airline pilot but please be under no illusion of what you are getting yourself into.

Given the way the industry is right now, it doesn't matter if you're 20, 30 or 40, there are hardly ANY jobs available for anyone. Until one of the big movers starts a decent sized recruitment drive, expect a stagnant jobs market for some time to come...

Atreyu:ok:

Laughs out loud, they really are spinning the BS there nowadays.

Well, a fellow PPL student is currently on the Cathay Pacific Cadet scheme. I thought he was wasting his time filling out the application form - he was 35.
He's currently in New Zealand - training with Cathay Pacific. He'll be nearly 37when he finishes.
If its good enough for Cathay Pacific then I'm sure that the thirties are just fine.
Another chum was 41 when he started his ATPL theory - now flies Biz Jets.
Another is a Training Captain for EasyJet - PPL and instructing from age 34 - F/O for EZY aged 39.
I can think of another 2 who started at about 34 and are now F/O's - one at Jet2.com the other Ryanair.
Sure by the time I get to be 60 they'll have upped the retirement to 70 so I've got 33 years flying ahead of me.

I'm really happy to read all these things. I was think that at 26 I was "almost old" already! It's really nice to see that some other people make it, even at 35/40yo!

At that age, the good point is that you have probably loooaads of finance available! Hehe!

Hey - thanks guys!

It's good to see that people on this forum, whether already there, or trying to get there are supportive :ok:
I think that by your 30's you are much more sure/realistic when considering such large financial adventures - and many of us by that time have worked in non 9-5 jobs so have some idea of what is involved.

I just hope that we can all make it - I'm going to give it a damn good try! :cool:

TSR

thanks for all the advice and experiences, greatly appreciated.....however i've got the impression that many pilots are unhappy with their job, is that really the case?

Yes it is.
The glory days of aviation are slowly but surely disappearing.
As a thirty something, you will I am sure remember things like flight engineers, proper nav with slide-rules, real gauges and pilots who were treated with respect.

The above is now more or less all gone.
Airlines are run by people who are geo-anatomically challenged (they know not their arse from their elbow) when it comes to what happens on a flightdeck, or before and after a flight - especially around the area of Human Factors!

Take here in the Middle East, for example.
Or check out the Emirates or Qatari threads.

Days off are constantly invaded by Crewing (wobbles head) who either did not realize you were on a rest day - or more than likely knew, didn't give a stuff and called you out of bed anyway, then take the hump when they're told to sod off!

Standby days are no longer standby days - they are days off for your less than scrupulous colleagues who like nothing better than to f*ck you over in exchange for a few more hours sleep.

The cadet schemes are all but gone, and it is beginning to show in the quality of some new jet-jockeys.

Guys over here call Met to find out what the weather is like at destination and use that to determine whether or not they are fit to fly.....a crosswind over 15kts or OVC on the TAF is enough to send a few folks here into a state of apoplexy.

Getting leave is like trying to get blood out of a stone.
Allowances are being eroded away and some pilots are getting ditched because they can be replaced by self-sponsored, debt-ridden newbies who are willing to work for a handful a rice a week and enough salary for a monthly loan repayment.
They will even buy their own uniform!

The dream sir, has fallen on it's arse, rolled over and died!

Farrell