Have to agree 100% with KAG, age is not an issue, you are young enough to embark on Pro Pilot training, what you should look into is what opportunities are available to you on the other side of completing and passing your IR test. What jobs are available for low-houred pilots and how the market is developing for your future earning potential.

Carrying lots of debt (?) and no job, starting out down the pilot road could end up been a miserable existence. You are old enough to not join the 'Wannabe Zombie Army' so go in with very wide open eyes...

The bloke's in Australia. It's not the same market as Europe.
At 29 you're starting to get onto the back end of the drag curve wrt experience commensurate with age.

It's not impossible but I wouldn't waste "too" much more time contemplating it if you're going to do it and become successful.

I appreciate the time taken and your feedback given that so many before me have asked similar questions. :ok:

Is there any evidence to suggest that getting your privates pilot license and then applying for a cadetship puts you in better stead for selection?

Yes it does as shows you do actually want to do it as are investing your own cash in it rather than applying just to see. Specifically talking about the CX one. Your 29, their main thinking will be why have you not done any flying if you want to be a pilot? Assume you are just getting out of the military so you have a good reason but if you are serious about it at least have a few lessons before sending off the app, it may not be for you, who knows, if it is then continue with the PPL whilst waiting to hear back from them.

Dont just send an app and wait, it can be a long wait.

Would also suggest trying to get a job near home for a small outfit with some singles and also twins whilst waiting for a reply about cadetships, doing your PPL in spare time. Job doing anything, loading bags etc as if cadetships don't pan out you will be working for them for well over a year if you do your flight training whilst working and will have a great set of contacts, also if you know them they are likely to give you a flying job when you have the experience if you dont meet their requirements straight away when one becomes available.
(maybe dont mention you are waiting to hear back about cadet courses)

A lot easier said than done but in Aus, unlike Europe, if you don't get on a cadet scheme you have to work your way up the ladder and cant just buy your way into work.

http://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbo...programme.html

If it is the CX one you are considering then pretty much all you need to know is here. Pros and cons.

Personally I think it is by far the most superior cadet scheme in terms of what you have to invest and what prospect you get in return for someone with little or no experience. eg, almost $0 investment (maybe tickets to get to first interview) and if you make it, in 6-7 years you will have 1000 hours on a widebody jet as an FO.

Cathay Pacific - Careers : Careers Home

Expect you have checked out both links before but just in case you have not.

not too late
 

I changed careers and got my private pilot's license at 40. I am now about to turn 46, and I have 4000 hours, and 3 type ratings. I just finished a contract in Saudi Arabia that paid $9000 USD a month, with housing and car provided. 30 is nowhere near being to old. The reason I was able to advance quickly is because I have no attachments, and I am free to take jobs anywhere in the world. Also, the job market for pilots really oscillates between feast and famine. I was able to ride the job market to a pretty high peak before the economy crashed. Now it seems the aviation job market is on the verge of a comeback. If you can quickly work your way up to a commercial multiengine license, you may find many opportunities available in the next few years. I say go for it. :ok:

I can't begin to thank you guys enough for the valuable information supplied! :DI was already highly charged about shifting careers, but the feedback I have received has pumped me even further! Sorry I get excited easily! I've waited many years to be in a position to afford to fly and my time has come and I'm stoked!

I've already made plans to immediately begin my private pilot’s license upon my return to Aus.

Cheers guys!:ok:

no problem aussi, give me 100'000$ and I can get you a "job", even at 100yo, I can find you something!

I don't understand all this idiots who try to renter into this market with their own money , when the market doesn't want them.

are people a bunch of retards?

Help the noob! Please!
 

This is my first post on this site so I do apologise if I've posted this in the wrong forum or this topic as been repeated around a 1000 times, but I like many who post on this site would love if you could aid me with my predicament with your aviation wisdom! It would be much appreciated!

Like everyone on this forum it as always been my ambition to become a pilot, and at the grand old age of 25 I'm not getting any younger so I want to at least try and live the dream as they say! Now I'm not naive, I no this country (uk) is practically on it's backside thanks to the recession and competition for jobs is greater than it's ever been, but I'm not afriad to work hard to get the job I haven't dreamt of doing for so long!

Sorry for all the waffle!

With me being 25 do you feel it's to old to start from scratch to become a pilot!

I'm very confused on which route to go rather with a school like Oxford, ctc or go for it on my own. I have got the money for my ppl and I can afford up to my cl. I have been down to Oxford before for the easy jet mentored scheme but I felt I was there just to grease there pocket with the £200 exam fee.

Being from Manchester I have 3 flying school around me these are Barton aerodrome, John Lennon airport and Blackpool airport, I was wounding if any one could shed any light on which is the better school for teaching and price etc!

I no everyones holy Grail on this forum is becoming a commercial airline pilot and it is mine to! But I'll be just as happy flying cargo/ freight or private jets etc I just wanna fly. Lol. Is there a different route for these or do you have to complete the same licences!

I'm also willing to become a atco rarer through the Nats scheme or trough the RAF, as I just wanna be part of the aviation Industry but my main goal is to become a pilot!

I do apologise if there is a lot of waffle in this thread and I Hope it makes sense these I phones have a habit of changing my words lol.

Any advice will be gratefully accepted as you can see I'm a little confused :confused:

Many thanks

Many thanks

Sorry that l can`t help with advice, but may l ask what the £200 exam fee was about ?
l think l can guess.

l wish you well and good luck !

Awesome...
 

What a warming inspirational post for all of us old fogies.

I flew recently with a new f/o (technically s/o) in my company. He has been putting himself through training bit by bit for the last 6 years. He told me he's 38 and this was his first job. His ppl, cpl, and ir were done in different countries with large time gaps in-between and his groundschool was modular!. Now as his first job he's sitting in an a320 with an internationally respected airline based in his home town!.

By contrast I joined the same airline at 18 as a fully sponsored cadet and got my a320 command at 27. What a different path we took.

I have nothing but admiration and respect for him and anybody else who remains dedicated to achieving their goal. Aviation is a wildly fluctuating industry, especially in terms of prospective employment. Timing can be crucial but if you hang in long enough clearly there can still be hope.

Best of luck to all.

p.s. i'm now 31, is that oficially 'old' yet?! :{

I'm 51, am I too old?

Yes I bloody am, too old to put up with the crap involved with being an airline pilot in this day and age. Having said that, I'm too old to put up with the crap with being any sort of pilot at the moment. The complicated reality is that I cannot avoid being a pilot as it's the only thing I'm qualified for.

I know it's sacreligious for you dreamers out there but I've reached a point where not flying is a good day.

My biggest dream is a steady income, organised hours and a decent pension. If I had that flying could be fun again.

How dare you steal my thunder ?

Ok, your lrish. At a wild guess you have never carried a fare paying pax.

Or am l wrong ?

B*ll**** ?

Give us the facts and we`ll check.

Sorry won't do it again, (whatever).

Not sure why being Irish and not carrying fare paying pax should be interrelated. As for the pax, well they pay to be there and I'm getting paid to carry them. Does that count?

No it's just how I feel about it. It's just a job now.

Integrated providers and age
 

A few years ago, I seem to remember integrated providers like CTC, Oxford, and FTE had maximum age limits but when I checked recently this was no longer the case. I emailed them to confirm and received responses about aptitude, speed of learning, etc but no definite limits. But I'm sure that unofficially age is still a factor and want some more information before I consider applying.

For anyone who did integrated training, what proportion of the class was over 30? Over 35? Or is there anyone involved in selection at these providers who could give me some straightforward advice on when age is likely to mean an application doesn't make the first cut? PM is fine of course.

(The integrated vs modular discussion has its own thread so would be great if we can keep posts on those subjects there :) )

Modern age discrimination legislation should mean that age should never be the criterion for being "cut" - hence no upper age limit now. Therefore Oxford, CTC etc could take you on (if you have the money) but job prospects at the end may be worse for the "older" graduate.

The age debate is changing, as traditionally mid-20s was often the cut-off. The job has changed and it is more of a management role than traditionally was the case, but needless to say the ability to fly well is still critical!

Different airlines have different views; RYR prefer youngsters as they're easier to bully, but the real point is that there's been next to no proper recruitment over the last few years, i.e. flybe haven't taken on any non-tagged cadets etc. so it's difficult to say.

A key consideration is whether you can afford to live on e.g. Flybe FO salary, as this is what stuffs up many esp if they've got a loan to service/mortgage /kids etc.

Also remember that on this forum you may hear of a 35 yr old who went straight into a 320 job, but others that have never worked - age is just one factor, but it's increasingly about the individual. Also remember that the industry has fundamentally changed so what was the case 10 years ago, may not be now but nowhere knows yet as proper pair recruitment is still very sparse.


Lastly. the training providers will tell you all sorts depending on how busy they are!

I'm aware the official legal position is that selection isn't based on age, but lots of factors are "unofficially" part of the decision. In my industry (non-aviation) that's definitely the case. Are there any older candidates (say 30+) who went integrated who wouldn't mind helping with some information about their experiences with the selection process? (PM is fine too.)

As for getting a job, that's a while away yet (and I can live on the low salary, I'm obligation-free in my personal life so no issues there).

I'm 30, Is it too late for me?
 

I'm 30, I'll be 31 in 5 months.
I have wanted to be a pilot for while but haven't gone for it because I can't pull the trigger. :ugh:

I have done my medical, I am fit to fly. I am going to train in the US and fly in the US. I'd be starting out at 31 and am giving myself about 1-2 years to get my PPL - CFI. I will have to take out loans to pay for about 30-40% of this.

Questions if you all don't mind....

1) Is the current predicted hiring boom really going to happen?

2) Am I most likely going to be turned down for a job because of
a) Military flyers jumping on to get a shot at flying for a major
b) All the Furloughed pilots are going to come back in an get jobs?

3) Do I have a chance of working for a major airline like United, American or Delta one day or am I too old for it now, just like the Airforce? Am I too old to fly abroad (Asia?, Middle East?)

4) Will I really make around 80,XXX as a captain at a regional? Will I ever make a good salary with a major airline, IF I ever get there?

I'm no spring chicken and older than most, but much younger than many.

I am totally open to any feedback. I prefer blunt and honest, optimism is one thing, but I would rather hear how bad it could really get.


Thanks.

I am not overly familiar with the US scene but from friends who are I have managed to glean this info.

Majors. Generally they want a degree. No degree = probably no chance.
Regionals. Your age shouldn't be a problem, commuting etc might be a hassle + I believe legislation is being passed/tabled about a minimum of 1500 hours etc.

Furloughed pilots? Well, rarely do all of them come back. A few find other things to do that are (to them) less hassle.

Military pilots? Well, there's not as many of them as there used to be. They are competition but probably not where you'll be looking initially.

Aviation is highly sensitive to economy and rarely do the managers get the hiring spot on. It's best to catch the hiring wave "early".

I know Europe is different, but I think in the US and other regions it'll be "experience commensurate with age". So, at the moment, you're not too young but I would spend some time researching the hiring practices of the charter/regional/bizjet market you want to be in.

Good luck

Aloha,

You´re not too young, especially in the US. If you can get hired in the next 4 years, you will still have a 30 year flying career. If you know the right people, and the timing and hiring are just right, you could end up at a major airline.

With that being said...

1. Will there be a hiring boom? We don´t really know, it depends on lots of factors. If everything goes as predicted, then possibly. If we enter a second recession, hit by a giant terrorist attack again, volcanic ash cloud, etc... it could affect world-wide travel, thus affecting the airline hiring. It´s all a domino effect and nobody can really know exactly what will happen.

What I can tell you is that the regions in the US are hiring right now. If you want to catch this ship, you need to hurry because the hiring situation can just as easily reverse in a very short time. American Eagle is hiring with 500TT minimums if you go through All ATPs Regional Standards course, and American Eagle has a flowthrough deal with American Airlines (some changes are happening at AMR right now though)

2. Despite furloughed pilots and military pilots, currently, there are not enough pilots to fill the hiring classes at the regionals. Yes, US military pilots are planning on jumping to the commercial side soon, especially if the deployments and the extra queep doesn´t reduce, but I think this is a bigger concern for the military.

3. No, you are not too old to get started and potentially get hired at a major, but see first paragraph.

4. There exists a potential to make six figures as a captain at a regional. But starting pay will be somewhere between $17,000 to $22,000. If you go to a major, pay is better with a higher earning potential, if you get there. Southwest Airlines and Fedex seem to be at the higher end of the pay scale.
Airline Pilot Salary and Pay Rates
You can see what the payscales look like at different US Carriers. And when doing the calculations, pilots work around 65-80hrs per month (only get paid while plane is moving, not when you are parked and doing other things)

To be honest, you are not too old for the US. I know guys who didn´t start until their early 40s but their whole career ended up being at a regional. I also worked with a guy who had a full time job, and was slowly building up his hours. By the time he was 35 he had built up enough hours to get hired but didn´t want to go to a regional take a paycut from his current job that he had been doing for the previous 13 years.

I would say that in your position, and with the current regional hiring going on right now, you don´t have time to waste if it is something you really want to do.

Just my 2 cents.

they have one year to take everybody they can before the 1500h rule.
if the guys have 500h, and logg 1000h in one year at a regional, they are good for 2013.

mid 2012 they will ask for 1000-1200h.
and end 2012 1500h or go get yourself a fi job.

then what will happen?nobody knows.

Will salary at regional increase?will they close?
pilot shortage maybe? who is in the right mind ready to spend 80000$ for a cpl/ir/cfii then 4 years in a school to finish on a saab in a regional , and paid peanuts?

1) Is the current predicted hiring boom really going to happen?
boom if you have +1500 and mutiengibe aswell.


2) Am I most likely going to be turned down for a job because of
a) Military flyers jumping on to get a shot at flying for a major
b) All the Furloughed pilots are going to come back in an get jobs?

yes they will, but some have found ther jobs which pay more.

3) Do I have a chance of working for a major airline like United, American or Delta one day or am I too old for it now, just like the Airforce? Am I too old to fly abroad (Asia?, Middle East?)

if you can go in a regional, and fly embraerjet, you can get your chance

4) Will I really make around 80,XXX as a captain at a regional? Will I ever make a good salary with a major airline, IF I ever get there?

nobody make good money in aviation.you can just barely survive. it s a hobby ,remember!some guys fly for free.

Wow Usualguy, you sound more bitter every day.

Lots of guys apply to Embry Riddle (and other schools) every year and pay even more to get a 4 year degree and end up at a regional, or even instructing even after graduating.

Besides, there is nothing wrong with instructing until you reach FAA ATP minimums. Lots of guys have done it in the past, are doing it now, and will continue to do it in the future. Heck, none of the airlines were doing much hiring since 2007 until just recently. I know lots of guys who slaved it out for 4 years as an instructor, or even bartender.

Is 31 to old to start?
 

Hello all wanabee Irish pilots out there!
I'm thinking of a career change and becoming a pilot. Just a quick message to see if anyone thinks 31 is too old to do this. I'd be about 33/34yrs old before i'd be qualified to fly.
Would i find it hard to get a job with airllines due to the ageism as mentioned many times in threads on these forums?
Due to the cost of training id be :mad: at my age if i couldn't get a job.
Anyone else from Ireland in my boat?

Your young. The average CPL student is around this age nowadays - certainly was where I trained.

You are however, never too old to read the instructions and rules on this forum regarding reading archived threads before posting which covers this area : http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...-question.html

Hi Ayrtonsenna,

Im 28 and having the same thoughts as you regarding a career change.
I will PM you.

Look, face the facts, at 28 and 31, you are old and senile, no good whatsoever for anything. Stick to what you're doing now, take early retirement at 50 and expect to be dead by 55.

All this stuff you didn't read on numerous PPrune threads because you were too lazy to do a bit of homework, about it being fine training over 40, likely extensions to mandatory retirement age, and passengers preferring to see somebody out of short trousers on the flight deck - it's all cobblers, and clearly doesn't apply to you.

G

These threads come up on a regular basis and you will find that the yes go for it camp are generally people that work in a certain low cost airline where career progression can be quite quick eg: 3-4 years RHS to LHS. I would add caution to this as I am hearing that command is much longer now in outfits such as FR where there is little or no expansion with MOL parking aircraft around Europe and canceling orders.

If your plans are to join a national carrier such as AL (I see you are from Ireland) then consider the following:-

- currently people are taking on average 12 years to get to the LHS on the A320
- progression off the A320 (the starting fleet) onto the A330 was around 6 years but realistically this has slid out even further and with no expansion planned then conceivably you could see short haul command quicker. Recent rostering changes resulting in 2 day turn arounds on the A330 means they need even less pilots than previously.
- if you were fully qualified by say 35 years old then you would have your ATPL and around 3000 hours by the time your 40. Then a wait till your 47 for your command. Factor in kids and a family life and how your roster will be messing up all of that.
- if you did get into an airline straight off such as AL then you will be effectively locked in due to any seniority that you have built up. Further, other airlines may not be interested in a 40 year old FO joining them when their captains could well be 10 years your junior.

Essentially flying is for the young single folk now eg: 20 year olds. They can afford to get into an airline, gain some hours and not care about any lost seniority and jump ship to the bottom of someone elses list then sit there for the next 12-15 years and hey presto they are mid 30's and sitting in the LHS of some large metal. They will then progress to top of scale on any salary list and avail of all of the associated perks. If the company has a pension scheme then they will be fully funded and not have to worry about making any voluntary contributions. If the markets dip and erode their pension they have time on their side.

Good luck.

I did my PPL in my early 20's and eventually got around to getting my commercial license's finished early 2008 as the down turn hit.

My age is 31 and have found some jobs, not all have rejected me and I think unoffically its been my age. A certain Irish low cost airline is one example that I am sure was age related.

Large schools that do integrated or have the relationship's get in the way if you are modular like myself and others trying to get a job.

If you were able to, I would suggest cadet / integrated scheme. It will be 3 years soon for myself looking and its somewhat frastrating when those airlines who only take from specific integrated / cadet school scheme's, that you cannot apply for the same job and may already have some AOC experience in the GA world.

So it's really all about timing and do your research with whats best for your personal situation and family.

Tomorrow, you'll be even older !
 

Hi Ayrtonsenna, you are probably one on the many who one day, felt they ought to start flying !
So was I... ...long ago !
I started Club-Flying when I was 22, which "seemed old already", yet , I could have started at 21 if not delaying the thing by a month or two, each time.
I actually got my CPL and IR when I was 26 and a little bit older...
...and got my first salary as a Pilot (not just as employed to fly for free, to build up experience) as I reached 33.
There has been a long way since then, I'm now 57, not even thinking of retiring, and still meeting the age problems: Am I too old to go for a new Type Rating ?
An inside voice just tells me GO AHEAD !
Because I like this job, and if you ever felt like becoming a Pilot, you just have to go for it, but be aware you will have to make some hard choices and sacrifices, but whatever one can let you imagine, it is worth it !
So, if you've heard this inside voice, do go ahead NOW !
Because in any case, tomorrow, you won't be younger, there is nothing you can do about that, but you might well feel much happier if you do !
Good Luck in your carreer, because everyone needs some as well !
TEL

is it tooo late to become pilot?????
 

Hi friends.

thank you for giving me this opportunity, where i can hope i will get right answer about my dream career.

i have few doubts and confusion about to become pilot.

1) I am 27 yrs old. my dream is to become a pilot. am i too old?? if i start my cpl training now,by 29 if i clear my CPL will i still have a chance to get an job?

2)regarding about training. In India some places are offering for 20000dollars and most of the agencies are marketing training in Philippians. could you please suggest me which is the best place to do in india or Philippians?

3) After completion of CPL, do i have to compulsory to do type rating (320/787) to get an job? is there any posiblities to get an job without type rating, i mean i don't mind to write a bond to the airlines in the world if they can send me for type rating.

4) am bit of scared to go for trainning,because this days young guys or doing the course, i am afraid i wil be odd person between the young guys..

5) if i do trainning from any other private school. how much does it cost for A320 or B737 type rating??


6) If i do fi course and work for 1 year add up around 1000 hrs.wil it be any advantage??

i would be really great if anyone can help me on this...

Hi there

There are already lots of threads on this topic on the forum. I suggest you have a go with the search function.

Should find all the info you need.

The answer to all your questions is, maybe.

You're not too old for everyone, you might get a bond without paying for your rating but it's not looking likely right now. It might be better in India than the phillipines, then again it might not. You wont be feel odd with lots of young people around then again if you're not confident you will. Having 1000 hours will make you more employable but it might not be worth the money you paid to get there and then you have to find an FI job.

It's a gamble, nothing is guaranteed but nothing is excluded all I do know is that it's very expensive and expect it to be more expensive by 30% than you actually think.

To be, or not to be.....
 

I'm 54 and coming out of the rat race. I've always wanted to be a commercial pilot but, is this a realistic aspiration considering my age? Is it worth spending my redundancy money on or, should I take up rose pruning? If I was successful, will the jobs be there or will I be a well qualified "has been"?

I don't have much flying experience but understand how planes work, am a qualified naval skipper (hobby) and have air navigation O level! (My maths master was a Mosquito navigator). I'm technical and practical so am not phased by the ability to fly but know it's a very steep learning curve too.....

All input very gratefully received!

Thank you

To sleep, perchance to Dream; Ay, there's the rub...
 

If I was in your shoes I would get a PPL, an IMC/IR and enjoy flying for flying's sake.

There are a load of low hour CPL with IR holders flying supermarket shelves for the foreseeable future. Please don't join them!

I hate telling people "no, not a good idea" but in this case it's not a good idea to spend your redundancy money on CPL flight training.

The CPL/IR with the ATPL theory is not easy, it's not impossible either but that's nothing compared to getting a decent well paying job. At best you'll have 5-8 years of productive flying before you'll be restricted to the RHS (at best) or instructing. In short, you won't recoup the money spent.

Best advice, go and have a trial lesson. See what you think of it. Get a PPL and enjoy flying when you want to. Not when the schedule demands. :D

Good luck. :)

I would have to say that it's how long can you stand with a challenge?
If you like it, and ready to spend your money (hoping you're covered for the rest ...house...wife...children...).....then get into it, or dye dreaming.....It's true your chances of a job may be very little comparing to a young pilot with more hours, but you never know what life is hiding to you....If it's your destiny, then you'll certainly do it.......

Once a singer said "Keep the faith":cool:

Financially it's a ridiculous thing to do. Your chances of a job (other than instucting) once you qualifiy will be minimal.

On the other hand. If you can afford to take the risk and it's in your blood, then I suppose it's something that you'll have to do or spend the rest of your life regretting it.

I agree with previous posters here, though. Keep the day job (it pays the bills) and do the training for fun.

As the other posters say, start with your PPL. If you get on really well, and love it, you might want to consider instructing. I know several people who've turned to instructing in their (semi) retirement. It's a cheaper goal to aim for than CPL/ME/IR, and the resultant pay is considerably less too, but you have a marginally better chance of getting a job as someone of a mature outlook...

Good luck and enjoy your flying no matter what!

Thank you!
 

All input much appreciated folks. So, PPL it is and buy my own A320!