Ok, apologies. Should've looked into CASA regulations before questioning.
Now seem to become a little bit smarter :ooh:

Hey guys, I'm 22 (graduated from uni in Summer 2016) and feel like all the guys and gals I'll be going up against during training will be 18 year olds (when they start training), how accurate is this view?

Jbaldwin95, You'll have nothing to worry about.
I currently work as an ATPL theory instructor for a fairly moderate commercial training school.

In a class of 22, the youngest student we have is 17, we have a couple of 19 yr olds, the oldest is in his forties, and we have someone in their 50s joining in Jan. The average age is mid 20s with quite a few in their late twenties.

Genrally speaking I see the modular students are mid to late twenties and above, the integrated students are usually straight from school give or take a few years.

Much appreciated PaulH, you have certainly put my mind at ease!

On an unrelated note, would you reccommend the commercial training school you teach at for the intergrated route and what kind of success rate do you guys have in terms of airline progression of cadets?

(feel free to decline answering).

Our integrated course has been running for just shy of two years. As a result we've only had a handful of student finish the course, although we currently have12-15 inergrated students studying with us both doing ATPLs and currently flying, both in the UK and the US. Two of the finished students have gone straight to Flybe, finishing in July and Sept.
The modular course that we run makes up about +60% of our students have sent people (over the last 3 or so years) to Ryanair, Jet2, Easyjet, DHL, CityJet, SkyBus, Flybe, Aurigny, Loganair, and a host of small charter and private jet companies.

I would be biased in saying 'Yes' to your question, but I did all my training where I now work, and I've just gotten into a jet operator. So......yes.

Just thought I would weigh in to comment on the absolute positive atmosphere on the last couple of pages of this thread - its fantastic. I was just getting extremely extremely frustrated over the amount of keyboard warriors and naysayers in these forums who log in only to vent their frustrations about their careers during the bad times on people coming up in the better times (sometimes I think people in training post things on here to trim the competition by scaring them away!) . Congrats to you all and good luck to those who, like me, had to work in the real world for a decade (or two or three or four apparently) in order to be able to start chasing the dream now!

Well said QLC. I'm certainly noticing a trend of 'older' guys career changing. Having personal funds available and a fall back career certainly removes a lot of the risks...

Thanks Basil Fawlty1, I would say the best thing about working the real world for a while (especially if you started flying young like me then stopped to earn "big bucks" and progress a career) is that it removes any doubt in your mind that this is what you want to do. I could one day work for the worst airline in the world with the worst on/off ratio and its still gonna be a million times better than my last job!

QLC - Have read a few of your posts recently with interest, I'm in a similar position to you (got my PPL in my mid twenties but shelved the commercial flying ambitions to chase $ in a high paying job I despised). Almost 10y later I'm seriously considering returning to pilot training. I'm probably still 6m-1y away from starting but I'd be interested to hear how you get on so hopefully you will post some updates.

Good luck.

Agreed - having that bit of extra perspective will certainly help when the going gets tough...

Gav28 - I was the same, it took me about 9 months to plan, squirrel away savings and do all my research while leaving my old job without burning bridges (I have the option of doing short or long term contracts for the next 5 years as a nice backup)

I would do it if I were you! and yeah just PM me if you ever want an update, but I have a long way to go!

I am 36 about to start flight training hopefully getting an airline job. I was thinking of taking one step at a time rather than signing up for an integrated program. I have high blood pressure and i know under CAA the medication i am taking is allowed.
Has anyone come across anyone with high blood pressure and who has successfully got a job after their training? thanks.

Sir, your message post is inspiring!

starting at 32?
 

Hi Everyone. I will try to make my post as brief yet informative as possible, so you can help me out.

I’ve always wanted to be a pilot since a very early age. I’ve always been reading about airplanes and learning more everyday and I was a crazy home simmer. I couldn’t afford to start training after high school graduation. I had a bachelor degree in business management and I started making my way in productions plants firms.

At 32 now, I realized that I might be wasting my time doing what I don’t enjoy as a job. Then this idea of “its never too late hit me”. I am single, have savings that can make me afford to start now. I am an Egyptian who lives in Egypt. I asked my flag carrier airline if they accept older pilots and they have an age restriction of 28, but yet again I can work anywhere as long as I will be flying.

Am I crazy to shift entirely my career at this age and leave my secure paying job? Is it doable? How long will it take me to have an ATP license? How much will it cost me (have around 60k $ in savings)I guess cheapest place for me would be the US? Can I make it to airlines? From where should I start?

I know nothing is definitive in this world, I might get lucky or not. But given the facts, what are the chances to start training at 32 and seeking a career in a “foreign country regional/airlines”.

Cheers

I am 29, ended up doing a work from home job I dislike (but that gives me almost unlimited freedom to live where I choose). I had 180 hours but was incredibly harsh on myself whenever I had a bad flight, and I ended up disliking the whole thing.

I have always missed it though and time is a ticking. Perhaps a few years without flying have changed my mentality and I will start to enjoy it and be less hard on myself whenever something goes wrong.

Hi all I'm in my early 30s and was wondering if there was any guys or girls same sort of age group who have gone down the integrated route i.e. Ctc fte oaa either mpl or whitetail who have gained employment with ezy ryr etc do these airlines prefer younger cadets or do I stand the same chance as someone fresh out of education

I believe a US citizen can not work in the EU. Nothing to do with aviation, it's about labor regulation.
But I don't know for sure.

And you can easily find a "small" job in aviation in the US, instruction, regional airlines...
Not a good idea to come in EU i think !

From my experience, I finished training 2 years ago, applied pretty much everywhere possible, no airline jobs if you are more than 40 with no Hours. There is no official age limit, like you can have in asia or ME, it's illegal in EU. But it applies, believe me !
I fly corporate wich is way more fun ! And they like older guys.

never too old!

(im hoping )

It saddens me somewhat that someone who is mid to late thirties would be deemed as "over the hill" by some airlines. I'm a trainee train driver in my mid twenties, I'm the "baby" of the course, the average age is 36 and the oldest is 51. The two oldest folks on the course (49 and 51) have consistently been getting stronger exam results than many of the younger folks. Oldest trainee I've ever heard of was 55 when he started.

Since the training is fully funded by the company and is more expensive than a fATPL plus TR, they'd have a lot to lose if these folks left early, however the company is willing to put the investment in since they reckon the life experience these trainees have outweighs the shorter career length.

I was at two airline assessment days last year and the average age was most likely mid twenties at the max. Someone well into their forties could quite easily reach a command and spend a good ten years in the left hand seat, the airline (if applicable) and trainee would get a good return on investment I reckon. That is, if the airline employed them of course.

Learning to drive a train is more expensive than getting a fATPL+TR? Excuse my ignorance, I thought those things were just FWD-STOP-REV. Maybe an extra lever for the doors?

The train driving training takes 12-18 months. First is 8 weeks of Rules (16 weeks if it's interspersed with time spent in the cab shadowing a driver). I imagine the principle of it is similar to ATPL theory, most of your time is in a classroom with a series of exams on things like signalling, emergency evacuations etc.

Next up is Traction. This time it's looking at the systems on the trains you'll be driving (isolation cocks, circuit breakers amongst many other things). Can last from 4 weeks to 3 months depending on what you have to learn and whether your employer has a centralised defect management. Think of it as a type rating without driving a train.

The longest bit is out with a Driver Instructor, you'll spend typically a year with one of these driving real trains with more than a thousand real passengers on them during the peak, I imagine it's broadly similar to line training in the aviation world. The Driver Instructor is a fully qualified driver who's most likely on over £50k a year. At the end of it all you'll have a 5-7 day exam with your manager covering everything you've learned. If you pass, you're now a driver.

Don't want to digress further, after all it's a thread about ageism in aviation, not trains. Nontheless, I do think the airlines could learn a few things from the railway world when it comes to recruiting older folk, who more often than not turn out to be very good drivers.

I hear that some of the niche sectors within aviation are a bit more open minded than some, plus some of the big boys will look at candidates who are 40-ish, though from what I can tell it gets difficult at 35-plus. Obviously, instructing is a different world but if I were in the left hand seat of a multi-crew aircraft I'd probably want someone with a bit of life experience next to me.

Hey guys!

I'd like to know your brutally honest view on the job prospects of a 30 year old non-US/non-EU pilot with 1500 total hours (250 PIC, the rest SIC) and FAA CPL,ME,IR,ATPL, FAA class 1, ICAO English level 6.

I'm willing to locate anywhere in the world but I'd like, as with everyone else, to land a job in an airline flying 737s or A320s.

Is my head way up in the clouds? :) I'd love to fly CRJs in US regional airlines but they won't hire someone without US greencard/citizenship.

No one can give you an answer as they do not know what the industry will be like when you finish training, they don't know what your like etc etc. It is possible and many do it, however many do not. It's a gamble like many things, if you don't do it, will it always be at the back of your mind?

30 is no where near too old. How old are you now? Asking as on another thread you are questioning about a flight school to complete your initial training.

I am a 51 year old 777 Captain. Didn't even have a trial lesson till 35. First 737 job at 38 became a 777 skipper at 46.

Inspirational!

I'm 25 turning 26 this October and I asked with the hypothetical hours because by the time I save up money for flight training I think will be around 28.

Becoming a pilot has always been a dream of mine since I was young but because of flight training costs and the fact that I've had two spontaneous pneumothorax surgeries, I discouraged myself from pursuing a career in aviation until about a few months ago when I learned that 2 SP cases may still qualify me for a class 1 medical (I called about 5 AMEs around US and UK and they said it's not a definite no but also not a definite yes so FAA's going to have to look at my ct scans and xrays).

I also started training late.

I Didn't start my PPL until 26, planned to be finished by 28 and working for an airline by 30.

In the end, the real world took over. I didn't finish my IR until 32, MCC/JOC at 34, then first job on 737s at 35.

Have patience, don't do anything stupid, don't make any quick decisions.

You're never too old :ok:

PPL at 33

ATPLs done by the time I was 36

CPL and IR done by the time I was 37

First flying job 737 at the age of 39 turning 40

About to start my CPL - a few concerns..
 

Hi guys, I've wanted to be a pilot for most of my childhood and all of my adult life. I'm now in a position to be able to fund my own training and should be able to do my PPL and CPL + Flight Instruction course full time and should be able to complete the whole thing within about 18 months.

I have spoken to a couple of people and have generally received a very negative response from people that have completed their CPL and not been able to find jobs. Also, I have been told by them I a too old to expect a good career in the industry. I am going into this field with my eyes wide open and I know it won't be easy (nothing worth doing ever is) but, I am going to be 31 by the time I finish my course which leaves me with nearly 35 years of a career ahead of me.

So in short, am I too old to be thinking of doing this? Yes, I am nearly 30 but I have no responsibilities and I am free and capable to travel anywhere I need to in order to take a job that will allow me to begin racking up some hours. Is that enough to over come my age disadvantage or did I really need the rich family that would fund me through this at the age of 18?

All responses appreciated, I never expected to get soo much negative feedback from people that had done their CPL.

Hi there.
Am considering starting from ground zero up to the CPL and I am soon to become 56 years old.
Physically in great shape, should I go or not.
Point being would a school/training center accept my candidature? (beside happily taking my money)

Black Pudding, what did you do between 37 and 39 before getting your first job, how did you keep current if you didn't fly etc?

Bruce Dickinson, Clint Eastwood, Harrison Ford.... they can do it because they have loads of money. That's the only way of making it at your age. You will need the money for passing the medical (even if you are in good shape), you will also need the money to fly 5 hours/day in order to build your logbook quickly, and you will need the money to corrupt some manager in order to land a job before they will put you in pension, which will happen when you turn 60.... you haven't got much time left, have you?
Oh, and one more, since the only aircraft you will be allowed to fly are warbirds or old planes, you will also need a lot of money to purchase (or lease) one. :ok:

Career Change
 

Hi all,

Please can you help.... I am currently in a career I no longer enjoy and I have always wanted to do commercial flying. I am now in a position where I do have some capital behind me to do the training, however age is not on my side as I have now turned 40. Please can you advise me on whether I am too old to start training as it is a substantial amount of money to invest if airlines are not going to entertain a newly qualified pilot in his forties. Ant commentary and or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Really needed to read this thread today. Thanks for your responses, you've provided a much needed boost in morale.
Best of luck to everybody on this difficult journey towards a flying job.

The honest answer is that it's impossible to know. If you have the spare cash, and are willing to take the risk / gamble that you might never land a job after spending close to 100.000 Euros incl. TR price, than it's worth a gamble.

Equally that you are not worried to move yourself around anywhere in Europe for that job, and accept that your pay will at best be around 1500 - 3000 Euros a month, than you need to consider if this is a career change that's worth taking.

Much depends I would say if you are in a relationship, have children, single, it all can makes things easier / more complicated. Only you know your personal circumstances.

By the time you are finish training you will probably be 42 -44, it's not impossible to get jobs, but equally it's not easy. I will never recommend P2F, but at this age, this might be your only option, but this means more money required.

I know guys who both have made it and guys who have failed. A lot comes down to luck, and the amount of money you are willing to spend. Some of these now flies for companies like BA, others have gone back to their old jobs with a 100.000 Euros or more lost.

If this money does not matter for you, than sure, give it a go, if it is something you will struggle to get, well than I would say no, because there are no well paid jobs until you have had a good FO job for another 3 - 5 years after you landed your first proper job.

An encouraging thread I found the other day...The current job market.... - ATP Forum

I am not sure why that is encouraging, that link / posts was written in 2007, when they job market was completely different than today. This article does not have much relevance in todays market.

Today CTC have cornered many of those first FO jobs for low hours experienced pilots and MPL's.

Going the SEP FI route for people starting around 40 is not an easy choice, as it adds quite a bit on the cost of the course, and if you have a family, you probably will not be able to survive working as an FI, if you at all find a job as an FI.

Most of the FI's I know had several thousand SEP and MEP hours, but they got jobs after people that they had newly trained with only 300 hours.
So the game of getting a job is quite random.
Example with myself, I had already been flying jets for several years when my CPL instructor got his first airline job.

As a fresh trained pilot, you might not get that many chances of an interview and Sims, and when you do get on chance you will be competing with thousands of other applicants.

If you are around mid thirties when you start training you have a good chance of making a career, but be aware what it's all about, the risks and dangers.

If you starting early 40's, I would say it's getting risky, as you will be at least 44 - 45 by the time you get your first job, if you get one at all.

I know of plenty of success stories I could tell you about here, but for every success story, I know 10 that are not having an happy ending.

So if you are comfortable to take the financial hit, and this is not an issue for your future, than go for it, if you feel that this will put you and your families future at risk, than take a step back and consider it carefully again.

It's a bit like Dirty Harry's best line, "Do you feel lucky? (Punk) " :E

Many guys on here asking whether being in their 30s is too old. No, I wouldn't say so!

I was 31 when I started training. Integrated. To me that seemed like the safest route to getting a job as soon as possible. I had a PPL from many years ago when I was 17, but didn't have the funding available to take it any further back then and didn't have the luxury of a wealthy family to borrow money from. Would have loved to have trained back when I was much younger but in retrospect, really enjoyed my years doing something else.

My biggest concern was would I find pilot training more difficult than the sprightly 20-year olds that I would be training alongside. We all tend to get a bit slower as we age. In the end, it wasn't an issue whatsoever and I performed just as well, and in my cases, better, than many of my younger colleagues during exams etc. So don't let that scare you.

I was fortunate to get an airline job (A320 FO) pretty much straight after finishing MCC/JOC so was over the moon with that. At no point did my age even come into question and in fact served me well - it was much easier to come up with answers to interview questions when you've had a wealth of work and life experience beforehand.

I'm really glad I took the plunge...left a well-paid job to jump into the unknown but certainly worth it! Still having a fantastic time, two years into the job. Being a more "mature" FO is also seen as a very welcome change for many of the Captains - having a bit of experience prior to flying, having done so,etching different, seen different places, etc etc, provides for a far more interesting day of in-cruise chat...at least that's what most of them say ;-)

Best of luck to anyone sitting on the fence...go with your gut instinct. It's well worth the ride. The views are as incredible as you imagine, and remember, you technically don't have to retire until you're in your 60s so you'll still be doing this for 30 or so years!

This thread is coming up on 9 years old next month. Is it getting too long in the tooth to be offering useful advice any more, or is a nine year old thread still capable of being a useful thread on an aviation bulletin board with a decent career ahead of it?

I would have thought this thread is as relevant now as it ever was. And will continue to be....?