What should I do hmmm.....

Anyone here start Pilot training while married with young children?
I have a baby arriving in 1 month, which I'm over the moon about btw...!

Is it completely the wrong time to think about stuff like this?

In started my training in Florida 5/6 years ago but didn't finish it.

My main concern is having to be based abroad should i end up getting a job, something I`m not really willing to do right now as i`m very much a homebird, Ireland is my home to stay as bad as it is right now :)

Thoughts? am I Mad?:}

Not mad, but you do need to be able to go where the work is. Being unwilling to relocate from Ireland may severely restrict your options.

A certain person on this very thread has been moaning on pprune recently about getting his first job and that it was abroad (and boring, but thats another story...). Evidently it was something he didn't consider before starting training. Learn from his lack of foresight.

TruckFlyer --I understand where you are coming from. The odds are clearly stacked against me.

If somebody of my age who is a senior FO said that he or she wanted to stop flying in favour of studying for an MSc in journalism with the ambition of working for Sky News or ITN, I would warn them that it would be difficult, but not impossible. I wouldn't discourage them.

So, your hard logic is going up against my dreams and my instincts.

I'm sure flying a light aircraft around at the weekend is fun, but I want to be a commercial airline pilot, which is something very different. I'm not sure what qualifies you to question my love for aviation, because I have a deep love for flying and a thorough understanding of what the life of a commercial airline pilot entails. Pros and cons.

And I'm not sure where you got the +5 re. my vision from, but I hope to get 6/6 in my weaker eye after surgery (I had a brief chat with my ophthalmic surgeon on Tuesday) so then the Class 1 should be OK.

Anyway, time will tell if you are right or if my instincts are right. I respect your opinions and I would appreciate it if your respected my ambitions.

TF, you'll find that people usually find it difficult to trust the views of someone who says "do as I say, not as I did". If you hadn't had an ill considered mid life crisis yourself and then started moaning on pprune about the concequences, people might listen more.

I've stumbled across this discussion and whilst I have noticed a few posts from current airline pilots, I feel compelled to chip in.

I've been lucky enough to fly Boeing's and airbus's best efforts. Im a slave to the company's roster, enjoyed the 5 day beach trips, endured the deep night flights, slept with too many hosties to remember, admired the nothingness at 30W, got the nod from mothers and daughters walking through the terminal, heard the best stories and Repeated the best jokes.

It's a job that I truly enjoy but the fact is, If I was getting paid £12k a year for it, I wouldn't be doing it and most of you wouldn't be considering it.

I do this job because it gives me the right combination of money, status and job satisfaction.

Don't sit around waiting for a green light. If you think you've got what it takes, no matter what age, go get it, it's bloody brilliant!

Thumbs up
 

That's what I like to hear -- positive comments from someone who's been there and done it and is still doing it.

Some of us are optimists and have a positive attitude to life, and enjoy life!!

Others, well...

If you want to do something in this world you have to go for it and take risks!!!

Isn´t the key question at any age: "if you do not succeed, will you still think of the training and the flying as a worthwhile experience"

At least, that´s what I asked myself in the end, after realizing that begging crystal balls for permission isn´t gonna get me flying. The answer may vary with numerous factors, and yes one of them might be age, money another one, committments of all sorts a third one, but the question remains the same.

See how easy it is to send wannabe's into the que for the slaughter house! Post all the good things about this job and because its what they want to hear, all of a sudden, the Wannabe Rose-Tinted RayBans appear!

I don't wish to knock the dreams, it's a good job...the industry stinks! Be very very aware of your options and overall chances with a new CPL, bugger all experience and lots of debt...

Tizer

I was very close to 40 when I started my flight training and I received my nice blue licence a couple of years later. I'm not going to go in to the reason why it was so late but your 'thats what I like to hear' comment set of alarm bells with me.
You are considering a complete change of career and I think that it has a lot of consequences that you need to think about carefully.
At some stage you will complete your training and you will head out in to the marketplace with your shiny licence, confident that you have the skills and abilities to be a very good first officer and that your 'life experience' will be a valuable asset to an airline. You may be right. However take a look at who is recruiting and whether or not they will look at an older new entrant. Ryanair, Easyjet, Jet2, Bmir? I don't know for sure about BMIR and while I can't say that the others won't look at you for sure, it is my personal view that you won't end up with them. So what are you going to do then?

Send out lots more CV's further afield and have same response. What then? Try some instructing or some towing or just about anything to keep you flying and current?

How will that feel for you? Would you regret investing money, time, effort and a career for what...? How about your family, how would they feel?
Thats what happened to me and I can tell you...it is a bad place to be!
I guess that isn't what you like to hear but really you need to have a reality check, the odds of you finding a commercial job are far worse than a Grand National outsider. Do you take that risk or not?

Even now, with a current position, would I do it again? In all honesty I'm not sure that I would.

Gentle Climb -- I'm glad that it's worked out for you. Long or short haul at the moment?

I respect the advice that I'm being given here and it has dampened my expectations somewhat but my heart won't let logic get in the way. Even if I end up bush flying in Africa or Australia, I'll be OK.

The truth is that this is probably my last shot at something I've wanted to do all my life, but I've been prevented from doing so until not so long ago, when surgical advances mean that I can now get 6/6 in an injured eye (hoepfully). I've spoken to the CAA about it.

If I fly turboprops around Europe for the rest of my life I'll be a very very happy man.

And the age thing... some will consider me, others won't. Even if I didn't get my first FO job until I was 50, I'd still have 15 years or flying in me and another five years of teaching.

Why do we write people off so quickly in the UK? Being in your 40s or early 50s isn't old anymore. The airlines will have to catch with the rest of society on this one...

Thumbs up - what thumbs up!?
 

Did I miss something!? I thought Garcy just said the job was good??

He didn't seem to mention anything about getting a job on a jet in his 40s!??

And to say that you'll make it if you are willing to relocate to ME or China in your 40s is just wrong. Qatar won't take anyone experienced (non TR) who is over 40 fact. I imagine many others in the sand pit are the same, even if they don't advertise the fact.

Don't know anything about China but would be surprised if they don't restrict employment to their own nationals as soon as they possibly can.

Good luck Tizer as bloody hell you are going to need it. If you think advice from people within the industry are stamping on your dreams, then spend 2 years training, buy a ticket and join the game!

As you say, it's not impossible to get a job in your mid 40s but to get something that pays the bills is very tough indeed.

Good luck!!

Really? You can get a visa for Australia? If you can, great.

There is a bit of a shortage for GA pilots in Oz. Too many cadet style pilots ignoring the "whole going bush" thing and when they do, they haven't been trained properly in engine management and frying the engines on the 400 series Cessnas. (Pistons).

37 years old and considering flight training in the US
 

Hi,

I am looking for some guidance around whether it would be worth undertaking flight training at my age. I am slightly concerned I may be too old to start now.

On the upside, all going well pilots can fly till the age of 65. On the downside, the cost, especially with a family can be quite high and i need to decide whether continuing with my corporate career or making the shift.

If I do decide to undertake flight training it would be in the USA. My main motivation would be due to the cheaper comparative cost. Ideally the East Coast is preferred so that it is cheaper and easier to commute.

So....

1) Am i too old?
2) Recommended flight schools. Good all round training and cost.

Are you too old? Not at all. I know of chaps older than you that started their flight training and they're flying right hand seat.

Having said that, I know 20+ year olds that can't find work.

It's all about who you know, not what you know..

When I was in new hire for my first airline job in my mid twenties, there was a fellow colleague who was in his early forties. He had left a career in finance to do what he had always wanted, so it's never "too late"

I don't think you're too old, but you should be realistic about the economic impact of the next ten years of your life. You need to cover the costs of training through at least CFI instrument, you can do the MEI later. You need to find a job that you can build the requisite 1500 hours towards your ATP. This is most likely 1 year for training (can be done in 6 months), and 2-4 years of instructing, flying small cargo, scenic flights, flying skydivers, etc. Multi time may be forgiven as regional airlines struggle a bit to find ATP rated pilots, but that can change as well.

Speaking of regionals, you are looking between 3 to 10 years of flying as a first officer. The first few years are tough both personally and financially, as 20 grand a year is tough to live on.

With a bit of luck, and some smart moves, you could be a regional airline captain in the next 8 to 10 years and fly to retirement making a respectable income, but you'll never get rich doing it.

A first officer spot at a major is also a possibility, but you'll be close to or past 50 at that point, and may not want to give up the perks of seniority (holidays off, choice of schedule/vacation, etc.) just to spend a few years sitting on reserve on the bigger iron.

Whatever you do, do your homework, make good training and career decisions, and be very sure this is what you want before you commit the time and money.

Friendly advice: just forget it; you have no chance.

Best wishes.

37 years old and considering flight training in the US
 

People regret action in the short term and inaction in the long term.

If you don't give it a go, in 20 years you'll be more senior in your current field, richer, with a bigger house, moaning about the things that you still hate about your job now and wishing you'd given it a go.

If you do it, you'll probably be moaning about a whole new set of problems, but you'll be doing it on your terms, doing your dream job.

I am 30 and going to leave my corporate job this summer to pursue my dream. If it all goes to sh*t I will go back to my current job or find something else to do, but at least I'll have given it a go.

I suppose the one caveat here is that I don't have kids yet so don't have to worry about providing for them. If you have the means to do it assuming no income for 2 years with £40-80k expenditure, then £20-30k salary for 2 years then go for it.

Thank you for your advise and guidance. I will still take the time to think this out. I have over 10 years experience in finance and that would always be an asset if i ever had to retire.

It is always tricky when you try and ascertain the opportunity cost of making a particular decision. At the same time the regrets of not doing something can come back to haunt in older age.

Decisions decisions decisions!!:confused::ok:

What schools in the US do you guys recommend?

ian
 

if you start to work immediatly after the licenses, so..no income

I've not posted in pprune for a while but for what it's worth my answer is....

No No and No do not do it. I retrained just over 10 years ago and the first job that paid a decent salary took me over 4 years to get, remember whilst looking for that first job you need to stay current, lets say instructing? unless you go the intergrated route (loads of cash, no promise of a job if older). Don't think you can go bck to your old job, thats not an option.... so can you afford on top of the training and possible type rating, to live on next to nothing for a few years.

A rough calculation on the back of a fag packet would tell me, my time out of paying work cost me over £100,000 on top of my training costs.

It's a very real scenario, my view is don't even try. The previous poster had it right an outsider in the National has a better chance of winning!!!

Regards and good luck.

Ohhhh it cost me my marriage as well, just a thought

just an example:
i'm italian, 23yo
modular course in italy mcc etcetc+time building in usa=
64k euros, I never fail a mission, and I had all the times to study because i was supported by my family.
now in Ryr
total expenses 105k euros.(considering food, gas, landing fees...all the stuff)

Just for let you know how is today

If you have a settled family then flight training is almost a no go at the moment.

For example, working a 5/3 roster out of a base far from home where kids are settled at school and your partner cannot afford to become unemployed is a reality for many. Spending only one full day at home out of every 8 isn't a great way to live.

On the other hand if you have the money, flexibility and open mind to make your home where your work is then the best of luck to you.

One question: what would be the best zone of the globe for a thirties-year-old guy finishing the ATPL to find a job.
I know in advance it won't be easy but I believe there are some more complicated places than others.

Try Burger King.

If you have a real passion for flying you do not have to pursue the dream of flying an airliner for a living to scratch the itch. I and many others will tell you doing it for a job is far less fun than beating up a grass strip in a SEP for the pure pleasure of flying. Like most of us who have not done it in years, flying for fun seems so much more attractive than the daily grind of being an airline pilot, I still have the passion but is it being fulfilled?

The negative ones are always those who already made it. Maybe they forgot about when they were kids.

:) yeah, but everyone has got the right to buy a ticket. Then let natural selection do the talking. :)

Am I too old?
 

Hi all, new here. Ive been reading alot of threads on here and am really interested in becoming a pilot. Im looking at doing a modular course but my question is , ive currently just turned 30 and have a full time job. How long does it take roughly? Also im currently in a well paid and secure job ( train driver). I assume if I became a fo for an airline id have to take some sort of pay cut but what do they start on roughly. Also am I mad for thinking about giving it up to pursue a dream job?
Sorry for the newbie questions.

Appreciate your replies :)

Roughly two years if studying full time, but doing it modular way you can finish either faster or slower. Firstly, in your position: I wouldn't become a pilot but alas, no one listens here in wannabes forums so secondly, I'd train (ha-ha) so that I could pay my training without a loan. Pay as you go and work while you study.

Pilot's pay is sh:yuk:te on the lowest ladders and yet it's extremely tough to land a job in the current climate. It's a race to the bottom.


Absolutely.

Zero to ATPL at the age of 35?
 

I’m at the stage in life where I can make a career change and would like to do something I have always wanted to do.


I started my PPL back in the late 90’s and pretty much got it before money ran out (about 25 dual and 5 solo) so unfortunately the dream of ATPL disappeared.


Now at the age of 35 am I to old to start off again?


Also at the age of 35 am I able to get a good return on the investment of training?

Zero to ATPL at the age of 35?
 

There was a gent who started with my company at 40...buuuut I must also say that he had been doing a LOT of flying before that as a parachute 'plane pilot.

Good luck if you choose this path though. You will be looking at a couple of years before you are employable (fATPL etc), and you would be fighting a lot of furloughed people and other low-houred pilots.

I am sorry for being so negative in my answer but it really is a tough market now.

I'm in a similar situation as yourself. I'm 33, about 8 hours into PPL and hoping to change careers. I'm under no illusion however that if and when I got to fATPL chances of a job are slim but nothing ventured nothing gained. I'm planning to stick with the day job, go modular, try and avoid mountains of debt and see where it takes me.

Oscar95, just out of interest where are you doing your PPL and what you think of them?

That's a good shout Oscar and the only way to go if you're a bit older (I.e not your typical 21 yr old integrated student).

Take your time, enjoy your flying and finish with the least amount of debt. The smaller your debt, the more chance you have of accepting your first job offer that quite frankly is likely to pay peanuts. And getting a gig in the RHS of anything, no matter what it pays, is incredibly tough.

Make plenty of friends and contacts along the way and the likelihood is one of those will get you your first job and not by sending CVs out or applying along with the other thousands should the occasional airline recruit which doesn't require experience on type.

Good luck!!

I too have started training late in life (I'm 33 now) as I wanted to do it debt free but now by no means I'm not in a rush to finish as early as possible. I believe that IF the economy is going strong and IF the airlines are hiring age wont be a significant factor. But now those two just don't happen and airlines prefer younger pilots. Generally speaking younger and inexperienced employees have fewer demands from the employer. Also people at my age are not willing to fork out that massive debt without a good return in investment, unless you are very wealthy of course.Besides many reputable airlines have an age limit for FOs.
Also there are many experienced pilots who are unemployed and in their mid 30s-40s, so we have a situation now where we have many young guys willing to spend a fortune, many older guys with experience and all of them are competing for the few places available. Does this sound promising for a mid30s career changer?
Personally I regretted that I didn't commence my training younger,
10 years ago there were better possibilities for a job and even if I was in debt I would have more time and fewer responsibilities in order to repay it.
Now in order to be a pilot you have to be young with plenty of money to spent. I don't know if im bitter or realistic but that's what I think.

PS Would be much appreciated, since BA and Ezy are (were) recruiting, if a typical 30 something career changer was accepted to proceed to their selection process. If such an individual exists would be nice to share his experience. It would be nice if someone prove me that im wrong with a recent tangible example

The first day of the rest of my life........
 

Good evening all

I sit here before you as a 35 year old with the excitement of a 10 year old boy on Christmas eve. Actually the analogy is deeper than you might think.

For the last 12 years I have worked hard (bloody hard) and progressed well up the ranks as a Secondary School Science teacher. As any young lad will confirm, to get what you want at Christmas requires hard work before hand.
So now I have made the decision to retrain. To do something I have always wanted to do. I have 15 weeks of a PPL behind me and I am making plans to complete this and continue on to a CPL and beyond.

I've read all the health warnings that say there are no jobs in commercial flying, but I am now at a stage in my life when I can afford to train, but I can't afford waste more time before starting.

So as I embark on this terrifying journey I am writing this post just to say "Hello" to everyone here and to ask if you have any advice for someone in my position to advance quickly (but rushed) and to have the best possible chance of a job at the end of this. Please don't tell me not to do it, I need constructive advice please......oh and I know what hard work means.

Thank you very much

Hi there,

well, I'm pretty much in the same boat as you are, at least age-wise! And one important thing of advice I can give you, as time is the most critical factor to us, try to get through the theory (assuming you are going for the CPL with ATP theory credit) as fast as possible!!! If you can, go full-time and avoid these "distance-learning-courses" since they're quite frustrating and it's very difficult to stay motivated as a lone-worrier (which you are as a distances-learning student) I speak from my own experience. Distance-learning is quite tempting, because it says "learn anytime, anywhere" but looking back, one thing I'd most certainly do different is choosing a full-time classroom course instead a distance-learning-course, it might not save you money but most likely a lot of time, and finally time matters most!!!

And besides wishing you luck and success, one more thing, here is a must read for you - I can highly recommend it!

http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...ml#post4408362

Apply to all the cadet schemes first.... Most airlines are doing this for - fo recruitment / experienced fo's- monarch/ BA/ Easyjet/ cityjet/ Aer lingus/ flybe / Qatar/ cathay pacific and many more all run cadet schemes. I don't understand how people can self sponsor with so few jobs available. These schemes offer a much better chance of getting you a job.
Phone the companies and ask them....before you start training!
Instructor jobs/ ryanair etc are an option of course

ATPL groundschool
 

Regarding ATPL groundschool distance learning vs classroom, it really depends on your personal preferences. *Distance education require focus and motivation, but minimises time away from work and loss of income. *You will know for yourself whether you can stay focussed while studying independently or whether a classroom environment would be better. *I did my ATPLs by distance education while working in a full-time job, and it definitely required motivation and focus (and my social life was very quiet that year) but I finished all my exams within 12 months with first time passes and good results. *By working full-time, I also had more money at the end of that year to pay for my hour-building and CPL-MEP-IR than if I had taken months off work to study.

Thank you for all the positivity and the very helpful responses. I have got in touch with a number of airlines and schools regarding cadetships. Seems that I've missed the boat on a load of them that recruited in the last couple of months. So I'll keep my eyes peeled for new opportunities when they arise.

My plan is to do things in this order.
1. Continue PPL at local flying school for the next few months.
2. Get Class 1 medical in the Summer (just to be sure)
3. Continue to look for JAA ATPL integrated courses and cadetships.
4. While doing all of those I'll crack on with the the PPL and CPL exams - this will probably have to be distance learning, although I have taken on board suggestions to the contrary.
5. Failing any cadetships materialising, complete my CPL.
6. Apply again for sponsored ATPL.
7. Do IR, MEP while looking for work as instructor
8. 6 again
9. Because beggars can't be choosers, I'm happy to pay my due as an instructor or even fly for Ryanair.

Am I missing anything? (Marbles not included :) )