Keep your job and buy a cheap fighter (or military trainer)!

At 55 you will become a jet fighter pilot without having to kill anybody, best of the best if you ask me.

Buy a Mig 21 instead of an Airbus, first it's more realistic (the price of your CPL/IR/TR), second it's much cooler.

Flying with your Mig 21 will look so much better than joining the p2f army!

And when you won't be able to pay for maintenance anymore, you 'd still be able to sell it the same price!


http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft...1/mig21_02.jpg

Thank you again!
 

Brilliant concept! Had my eye on a Lightning but as an RAF mate once told me, "if we struggled to keep them in the air, you won't stand a chance!"

Don't be so impressed.

Some armies sent their pilot to war and to some extremely difficult missions with less than 200 hours total.


You can get maximum fun with a Bellanca Citabria too...

Some opinions on training needed
 

Hi all. I need a few opinions on training, so thought I'd drop a post on here. Basically i've been floating around in aviation on a private basis for a few years now, and have managed to achieve ppl, night, imc and 160 hours. From the outset I always intended to try and make a career out of it, but have been somewhat stalled by the gloomy economic outlook over the past few years.

As of recently I have 0 commitments again (The dating scene just doesn't seem like its for me at the moment lol) so I have once again started considering my options regarding training. So... a few points...

1) If I got started fairly soon, given my age is a bit adavanced on that of some starters (I'm just 27) is there a chance of making a decent career out of it? I'm not looking to get rich and retire at 50 (In fact I don't really plan on retiring at all, but simply getting stuff paid off and continuing to do various intereting jobs on the side). However, I would obviously like to get some sort of return on my investment to enable me to live a bit of a life. I was looking at going down the CPL FI TR route and perhaps trying to get into biz jet flying within say 3 - 5 years (Making me early 30s), giving me hopefully another 30 years to make some money out of it.... does this sound feasible?

2) I potentially have an instructor job at my club lined up for when I qualify, as the CFI there is very impressed with my flying. It wouldn't be much but it would be a start, which given what I read around the forums is not to be sniffed at in the current climate.

3) Finally... I have a background in teaching and classroom instruction... Do you think this could be used to compliment my aviation career (And earnings) in the early stages... perhaps through doing lots of groundschool instructing (If there is much of this type of work available?)

Any opinions on my plans / situation are much appreciated.

Grouse

35/36 too old to get an airline job?
 

I visited the Flyer Exhibition at Heathrow today and was told by a representative of one of the big FTOs in no uncertain terms (albeit politely) that at 35 and beyond I would have practically zero chance of getting an airline job on completion of my training.

Is this pretty much true or was it being exaggerated a little? It would be good to know as I don't want to invest a huge amount of money into the training when there's nothing to be gained from it in terms of airline employment at the end.

Cheers.

Utter Utter Cobblers; you are hardly in a Care Home are you! The only folks who spout this twaddle are those that think the aviation world can only be skinned one way by MOL or CTC.

1. Get a CPL/IR Frozen ATPL.

2. Pay for a 500 hour package on an A320.

Voila.... aged late 30's you will be in the self same position as most other folks.

Rated, and with hours on type (enough hours), and fully current unlike those that havent flown for years due to the downturn.

Check out the job adds.. you will be rather well placed in fact compared with many.

BN

At 36 I was told pretty much the same thing (from a number of different sources). Didn't stop one of the big three offering me a place on an integrated course though!

Fortunately I don't intend on aiming for the airline sector. And I'm following a modular route outside of the big schools. We'll see where it takes me. Whatever happens, it won't be wasted time and money, for me at least.

Simples... lack of money.

I questioned the individual about BA's FPP and his answer was that the airlines can't be seen to be discriminating about age etc.

There seems to be a lot of mixed messages on this thread and that of course is down to everyone having different experiences. I might add that this person didn't say that I wouldn't be able to start training with them, just that there wouldn't be much chance of airline employment afterwards.

Food for thought.

It's a punt at the best of times, in your mid thirties even more so. If you treat it as such and can afford to do it without risking your livelihood, then go for it. You'll find numerous examples on here of people who made it into airlines at that age and older, albeit few recent ones.

That's the best bit of advice, aside from getting the medical.

Definitely do an aptitude test. But also note that if you are already a PPL with a number of hours, parts of the aptitude test are less accurate.

I would have thought you'd have an unfair advantage. Actually the opposite is true, at least it was in my case. Fortunately a sim flight showed a more reasonable assessment of ability.

So, do one, but don't be gutted if you don't ace it all.

PS truck flyer, congrats! An enviable yet unenviable position for you! Good luck whichever way you go.

They told me a few years back that I had "a low chance of success in pilot training". I passed all my ATPLs first time, first time pass at CPL, first series pass IR, employed within 3 months of finishing course, gained command in minimum hours.

I guess I'm one of those "very, very few" for whom the tests are inaccurate.

Guys,

I got my first "proper" airline job at 39 - granted I took the interview when I was just coming up 37 and then was made to "swim" in a hold pool for years - but in the end it worked out. I was not a complete newbie, as I had done a few years of Air Taxi (PA31 Navajo) on and off and was an ICAO licence converter.

It can be done, and older guys (>30) can still get flying jobs. I now work for a well established regional TP operator.

Like Artie, I think I would have pretty much fluffed the GAPAN type tests. Nevertheless I also managed to get first time passes in all the required stuff and this was the key element for gaining an interview. Operators really can pick and choose right now, so if you are a slightly more "mature" applicant, make sure you get top marks and study / fly hard.

Good luck to all :ok:

I confess I really don't understand the above, but put quite simply, I was told politely but firmly that I had no chance whatsoever and should believe what I was told.

I know GAPAN have the most honourable and decent intentions with their tests, but how many fledgling careers have been unnecessarily cut short at Cranwell? The real scandal is we don't know and nor do they!

Well that's my gripe. Do they ask for feedback on how the GAPAN test candidates eventually fared in pilot training? I've certainly never been asked. How can they be so certain that their tests accurately reflect the demands of modern civilian pilot training?

Three people I know scored low on the hand-eye coordination part of the test. This despite reasonable accomplishment in Pitts and Cessna aerobatics (requiring somewhat different skills, but both good hand-eye coordination), and vintage dissimilar-type formation (also requiring some stick finesse).

I tend to agree with Artie, although it must also be said that there are so many people applying that they can afford to turn away good people because the remainder are likely to be good. The danger comes when the not so good get through, either because they're good at those tests, or the standards are dropped. Then the filtering criteria becomes financial, and that isn't so good. In my opinion, that is.

fwjc

@ what age shouldn't start a career as Pilot
 

Hi,
I am very curious to hear from members on what age is wrong to start/take up the career or being a Pilot. Is there any "un-said" truth in hireability if you are not a young pilot aspirant?

Planning a major shift in career path @ 40yrs, want to take up the career of Pilot which has been a childhood dream.

- Which flying institute is most preferred in US?
- What are the chances of getting hired immediately after securing the CPL?

Any advice is highly valuable, thank you all in advance.

http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...2010-11-a.html

G

Naive, Dreamer or Silly!?!
 

Hi Everyone,

No sarcasm, wise-guys PLEASE :=

36yrs old, PPL and 80+hrs.....

AM I MAD TO BE CONTEMPLATING A CPL/ME/IR??? :eek:

total career change....call it my "mid-life crisis"!!!!

would i be 'marketable/employable'???

Cheers..............

I'm a young gun, I'm only 23, but I'll offer up my advice, for what it's worth (which to you is probably not a lot, to me it's the world :ok:)

Are you loaded, filthy, wipe your ass with $100 bills rich? Then no you're not insane, have fun...I am jealous.


Are you married? Then maybe you're a little more crazy, depending on the kind of woman you're married to.

Are you married with kids? Then yes, you are insane...in my opinion.

Are you single with the finances to go through with it? Then you'd be insane not to do it! Who cares how old you are. Chances are you won't make it to the left seat of a BA 747 in your career, but you do still have 24 years left before the mandatory retirement age, so have at 'er. You're only as marketable as you make yourself out to be.

Here's how I look at it. There are a lot of naysayers in the aviation world. A lot. In fact for the last, oh I'd say 5-6 years, I had completely given up any hope I ever had of being a professional airline pilot, thanks to said naysayers. Threw out Flight Simulator, gave away my Justplanes DVDs, started drinking my money instead of saving it, etc. etc. Then I joined the military. And you know what I realized...people are always going to whine and bitch, regardless of how good they have it. I have the jammiest job, and for the amount of work I actually do vs. how much I get paid, I'm richer than Bill Gates himself. But all I hear from coworkers is complaints. Whine, whine, whine. I get wicked money, a sweet pension, get to travel the world, do some super cool things (ever had a helicopter dunk you numerous times into the ocean? Didn't think so, I did) and the list goes on. And while I'm not a complainer it made me realize - do what you love. Seriously. The only thing that's going to make you happy is doing what you love. Sure a good salary, and security and what not are important, but so many people I hear whining make it the be all and end all.
I've only come to this conclusion very recently so now instead of signing a longer military contract, I'm getting out in a few short years and pursuing my dream. I don't care how long it takes and how poor I am. I'd rather be happy than comfortable. Maybe I'm seeing life through rose coloured glasses...but I've seen infanteers in Afghanistan in the most brutal conditions who are happier than a pig in :mad: because all they ever wanted was to be a soldier. Goes to show, in my book.

Rant over.

Hi Eire_wannabe

I'm 37 now. Started on this route when I was not far off 36. Still working on it although not married, I'm not loaded either. Have writtens + CPL done, Savin up for the rest. I don't regret a thing. If I can get a job, great. I've years of professional work experience to bring with me. If I don't get a job, those years of professional experience will keep a roof over my head.

Good luck!

You're asking people to predict something infinitely random - life. Make your decision, live with the consequences, take responsibility for yourself and have no regrets. Any other advice is useless noise.

Eire wannabe,

As others have alluded to "it depends".
Have you done a medical? (eyes, ears, diabetes)
Do you have the money to throw away?
Do you have a family that is depending on you for a certain lifestyle and expectations, such as uni?
After you've finished the flight training, can you survive on an effective income of £20,000 for 5 years?
What's the economy doing? Aviation is very sensitive to it, and does follow the "boom/bust" cycles reasonably closely.
Have you researched the market for employability of 40+ YO new CPL holders?
(That should concern you)

If your goal is to become a flight instructor and possibly some charters (piston or turboprop) on the side, or a turboprop job suits (note, not big money), then by all means crack on. If you just want to do it for the intellectual challenge, go for it. However, if your goal is to be a captain of a B744, then perhaps you should rethink.

You may think "oh it's not the money" - believe me, it is. If you're going to invest a small or large fortune in yourself, you want the returns.
When it's your signature on the Flight Log, you want suitable compensation. :ok:

There is another aspect to all of this, I agree that if your goal is the airlines, the road is long and the sacrifices of low pay to gain the experience are high, but there are other aviation fields where you might get somewhat of a decent pay in a few years at it, helicopter pilot for example, I know of folks that are now working air ambulance in bell jet rangers that weren't even pilots 6, 7 years ago, flying for a sheriff's department, flying for a government agency inspecting electrical network, I know a good friend doing that now that started 5 years ago instructing in piston helos, flying turboprops for custom patrols, those guys don't make tons of money but they have some good benefits, whatever the case you will have a few years of growing pains, the person you need to discuss this is with your better half, without her 100% on board with making cuts the first few years, it's not going to work. Good luck

I'm 37yrs old, PPL and 120+hrs.....

I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.


However, as the other have said, it depends on your situation. If I win the lottery or come into enough cash to leave me financially secure tomorrow, I'll go straight out and do it, just for the achievement.

But unless you're currently earning less than comparable amounts to an FO (in which case you're unlikely to be able to do it anyway), why spend many tens of thousands (if not 100k) of pounds for a job which will net you about 20k? IF, you can actually get a job.

You may be back in the same career, with a 100k debt, and nothing to show for it except a couple of hundred hours and an ME/IR which is quickly lapsing.

Really does depend on your dependants, social, financial, career situation etc.

But at this age, in this economy, and this market, you'd be mad. (imho).

Personally I would go for it. Many will disagree but my motto is that you only have one life so make the most of it.

You've got to have the personality though. Getting through training is one thing, but getting a job is very different. And the social individual has a better social network, ie more contacts and more chance of job.

Of course you don't need that personality, but it helps when trying to find a job.

I feel that's often something that people overlook....make contacts with everyone. I keep in touch with a lot of people I meet in flying schools, at airlines while volunteering etc. I'm building a good network.

Being positive is so crucial to get through the training and get a job. It's very easy to get bogged down with it.

Its a double edged sword....don't do it and you will live your life kicking yourself and wondering what might have happened etc...

Do it, and (depending on your current level of income, life-comfort, family commitments) you may look at others and think that ultimately you might have been better off in a ground based job which does not necessitate such a large gamble and an even larger financial outlay.

I am a touch over 40, started just flying just after my 30th and now work for a UK regional TP operator. I've had a great time on my personal journey so far - done all sorts - air taxi, skydive work, and now TP. I haven't forked out large amounts on jet TR's (no disrespect to those that have mind,) and still enjoying it (most of the time!!!). Pay is not astounding tho, and yes I could have done better by sticking at the office job I had.

The somewhat clichéd saying "the grass is always greener" applies here. My inclination (especially if you're single) is to do it - BUT huge perseverance and self conviction are needed, and don't expect to be rich for a long time (especially if you end up flying TP's - which is incidentally a great experience!!).

Good luck!!

Good thread and great post YVRKid.

E.W. - It's not impossible at your age and it certainly has been done before. I know FOs who got their first job flying an Airbus in their mid 40s after a few years of flight instruction behind them.

I'm sure you're aware that you probably wont walk into an airline job as easily as someone younger than you, but I say again, its not impossible.

Be realistic, set yourself achievable goals in the sense of time frames and don't let the ATPLs get you down! If it all goes tits up at least you can rest assured that you tried (assuming you can afford to waste the money if that is the case).

WOW
 

EVERYONE,

Firstly, wow, am overwhelmed by everyones honesty & advise!

THANK YOU!!!! :D

Honestly, didnt/havent come to pprune to sway my decision but its truly brilliant to get so many opinions! Not gonna single any one out for individual praise but, young and old, experienced and 'green', its great to hear other views!

VERDICT: WISH I KNEW SOMEONE 'CONNECTED'!!!! (and would prob' 100% go ahead with it!) :ugh:

'til then, feel free to throw me out 6 numbers for the lottery :cool:

I've only added to one post. I logged in just to say thankyou my friend. I'm 37 and posts like yours are inspiring.

Waster
 

apt idea i agree with you....that city flyer aint nothing but a :mad: :D

must be bitter to have 'that as your input' to a thread!!??!!

Rarely works these days, right place, right time and damn big chunk of lady luck and you still might not get a commercial position, the lottery is probably a safer bet than hob knobbing down at the local flying club. You might get one interview if you are very lucky. You will be up against a myriad of competition.

Heres some food for thought - Its a nightmare for unemployed jet pilots with thousands of hours to get back in to work (these guys have the plum ratings, 73/320 etc Captains and FOs), its a nightmare for type rated wannabes to get work, its a nightmare for integrated school graduates to get work, its a nightmare for experienced GA pilots instructors/ air taxi pilots to get work, never mind the modular guys. There are simply thousands of people armed with the bare necessities to apply for the minute amount of positions available. I know people who have multiple type ratings who are working the night shift at your local hotel, they can't get a flying job! There are people that qualified years ago still scratching a living as instructors, guess what?

If you have money to piss up the wall then go for it, if you value your life style then avoid. You will be extremely fortunate if you manage to carve out a successful career in the airlines as a late career changer. Have you the aptitude
etc..Lots of things have to be addressed, so many make the mistake and dive in. Don't be fooled, its a gargantuan undertaking to get from where you are now to the right seat of a public transport aircraft.

Fly for fun.

Could Fly in Malawi....but!!??!!
 

@ s ryder

insightful & brutally honest......i like it :ouch:

Opinions, real-life stories from people in circumstances similar from today and an era gone by can do no harm :ok:

Thanks (not sarcastic!!)

[may know more than i claim to be perceiving :eek:]

Am I too late ?
 

Hello guys ..

I am 30 years old and I am holding PPL and Aircraft engineering degree. Currently working in an airline in engineering field. But now i am thinking to get my CPL done and work as a pilot. I just want to know whether I am too late to start flying training ? Is there any way to build up A320 hours for money ? I can finish all the license before 33 years of my age. Will it be too late ? :uhoh:

Thanks in advance

It's not too late to start, but from what I've heard airliners prefer young pilots (I can be wrong on this!). And yes you can build hours on the A320, just rent a simulator, but this is VERY expensive!

Short answer. No your not too old, life experience is very important.
But what is increasing is the ability of young teens and early twenties to spend money on TR's and hours.

I've seen people come into this and make it to TRE at age 40. It's entirely up to you.

Regards

WB

30 is not too late to start but just be aware that it can take a long time to get that first real flying job. I started flight training at age 29 purely for a PPL. 18 months later I decided to quit my career and try aviation full time. It took a lot of time and heart ache and a number of years living on little or no income but eventually after about 7 years I got a break and was hired by a multi-national corporation as a co-pilot.
14 years later I am a captain flying Learjet 45 series and next month I am going to school on the Gulfstream G650. So it can be done but there are no guarantees and it may be a long road.
Good Luck.

hi
 

thanks guys... really appreciated..

Age is definitely a factor, but for a true aviation enthusiast there are no limits. I've seen guys drowning in debt, spending a huge load getting certified, then failing at securing employment, investing some more in p2fly, getting a TR, and still not getting a job... but they kept on trying till they eventually got a paying gig.

I come from a family where most of my Uncles were experienced senior captains in the national flag carrier with multiple TRs. As a child I idolised them, and wanted to be just like them flying B747s. But even then (BACK IN THE 80's!) they'd (my Uncles) tell me that it wasn't a profession worth pursuing, all the jobs had dried up, and batches of qualified pilots fresh out of Flight Schools were unemployed. I always knew that my parents would dish out as much as I'd tell them to when it came to my education, and they never stopped me from pursuing any particular profession... EXCEPT flying (thanks to my Uncles)! Anyway, I graduated from a top tier school in London with multiple majors (Accounting, Finance and Economics), wasn't even allowed to study aviation. Then my first Masters was from another red brick UK Business School with the same majors (Accounting and Finance), did my MBA from London, got my professional Accounting certification from ACCA (UK), got my professional finance certification from IFC (USA), and started working on a high paying salary at a Blue Chip company as a Senior Associate.

Born in 1984, I'm still in my late 20's, single, no dependants as such, or any financial obligations. As much as I love my life, my field of expertise, my job, I just wanted to be a pilot. Flying for a living! But considering the amount of money my parents had spent on my education (yes, I still fear that look of disappointment in my parents' eyes!), I couldn't in good faith just resign form my job and leave on a wild goose chase (an airline pilot's job). So, none the less, I got enrolled with a flight school and got my PPL/IR ME 650TT. Got my parents to pay for it, which they happily did this time around with one condition though; No CPL! For now, I'm still working as a finance professional, I'm stonewalled! :ugh: But someday, I will manage a way to do what I have always wanted to do. A SUCCESSFUL CAREER CHANGE! Nobody believes in me, maybe they shouldn't, maybe I'm just living in a fool's paradise... so be it. I'll keep on trying anyway!

JD

Too old??
 

Hi,

I got my CPL last year (2011) and have started an Instructor Rating. My questions though is: I am now 54 years old, am I too old to really start out on a professional career? Flying schools and the like are always positive, but we all know they are just after our hard earned dollars. Any pilot out there that started this late in life? Should I continue on and get a MECIR? :hmm: :ugh:

Hi,
What is your goal?
If you're looking at the airlines in Australia, then sadly, yes, you're probably too old.
Instructing, no, not too old but can you make a living out of it?