TylersDad
Welcome to the Wannabee forum

You will find lots of people here ready to help you but we do expect you to do a little research before posting and that includes the read before posting notices - where you would have found this thread!

Good luck with the career!

HWB

TylersDad

Well, welcome to aviation!

HWB

Please give him a break--it's his FIRST post. Happy New Years

He who dares wins. If I was you, get back into private flying, get flying on a regular basis, if u want to do it professionally, start networking . You got plenty of years in you.....reading pprune will reveal people older than you have made a career change like you and got a commercial job. I met a taxi driver who was 54, he was part time f/o on a metro and part time cabbie, happy as a proverbial pig in....... He started flight training at 52!!!!

Starting out - How Old is Too Old?
 

I'm considering a career move...

What age do airlines look at a candidate and consider them "too" old?

If you're over 25 you wont get a job.

Prob. around 45-50.

@davve
Do you think its easier for guys u25 to get a job?:)

There are a few threads on this subject knocking around. Probably more limiting than age is you life situation. The main questions to ask are:

Can you afford the training?

Do you have any of the responsibilities, likely to come later in life, that might prevent you taking a huge pay cut to instruct, and do you have commitments that will prevent you moving abroad to find work as a bush pilot/instructor, whatever?

Where do you want to end up? Flying a jet for an airline, or at a turboprop/GA operation?

If you've spent any time on this forum you'll know you're unlikely to walk into an airline job straight out of training, so you need to consider what you will do to get there, and how you will fund it.

I'm going through training myself so hardly a voice of experience, but the above is all food for thought. Make sure you do your research and have a plan in place before investing in training.

My experience :

Line oriented ? 30 is maximum.
Executive ? Really doens't matter. Probably on your 40s is way too much.

This thread is far more useful

http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...2010-12-a.html

Half the people who I know who were employed in the last year by the company I now work for were 30-35, so I wouldn't say anything over 25 is a problem.

Over 40 I wouldn't bother starting, you will be slower to learn the new skills required, particularly at the pace expected from you on a type rating, and other life issues and responsibilities are going to make full time training harder.

Too Old?
 

You will find a wide variance of opinion here and whilst a fair amount is ill informed and inaccurate, some is valid and you should try to take account of this input.

Firstly, don't get sucked in to some sort of confirmation bias when you read a post telling you that age isn't going to be a problem because this is what you want to hear. There are always going to be exceptions. On the other hand don't be put off by someone telling you that you have no chance.

Whatever you decide, make sure that you make an informed decision and if you do decide to go for it, choose your route to potential employment carefully...give yourself the best chances when you get your licence. That probably won't be the cheapest route!

For what it is worth, I started training aged 39...I am 43 now and I am awaiting a date to start a type rating with an airline. It was stated to me that one of the factors in my recruitment was my life experience. There is the odd company out there who will look at older candidates but you will have to go and find them and as a top tip, don't send in a CV...

Having gone through the pain of hearing nothing from many, many approaches for a very long time, and watched as younger applicants with similar or even inferior flying records have walked in to jobs, if you asked me 'would I do it again?' I am not sure that I would. I know I have been very fortunate.

Well, as a flying instructor it is my first hand experience that people over 40, and certainly approaching 50 are generally slower to learn the fundamental skills required to learn to fly, taking up to 20 hours longer than a young buck. This is fine at PPL, CPL and even IR level, but on a type rating an employer is unlikely to want to pay out for extra sessions.

Yes, there are exceptions to the rule, but in general younger guys are quick to pick up the actual physical act of flying the aircraft, but perhaps struggle with the more in depth stuff like navigation. For older guys the opposite is true, slower to get to grips with flying the machine, but once they have it's much easier to teach them complicated procedures.

So for your typical guy, I would say if you're over 40, I'd have to think long and hard about leaving an established career to chase this dream. I'm not saying there aren't exceptions, and perhaps you yourself are used to operating other pieces of machinery, or have some other engineering background which assisted in the way you learned to fly, but for most over 40 they just take that bit longer and an employer may not want to pay for the extra training, however good the end result will be.

The only people to ever fail the initial type rating in the history of the company I now work for were in their late 40s/early 50s.

So when you did your initial type rating, you actually had at least 22 years of flying experience as a PPL.

This guy is just starting out, with no flying experience at all. A completely different scenario.

pfft
 

From my POV I would agree with truckflyer just dont do it . Unless you have a lot of excess money sitting around and can afford to never get a job flying .
I was 38 when I started and had about 200hrs in a ppl . Luckily I already had offer of a job as an instructor which was fortunate as I came out of training in 2009 just as recession was kicking in about 5 months after the demise of excel.
It was this instructing experience that led to current position as an AOC captain flying night freight. I am also in the hold pool to fly for a turboprop freight carrier.
I however am in the minority . Everyone of my class mates under 30 sold their asses to pikey air . All those over 30 are either instructing or have returned to their old jobs. The chap I did my FIC with hasnt turned a prop since .
It is unfortunately a young mans game and the PTF eejits are destroying it piece by piece.
There was a time when you qualifed became an instructor flew for an aoc moved to turboprops then onto jets , it wud appear those days are gone .
I have 2200 hrs now and it is worth diddly in the eyes of many airlines . They would prefer a spotty 21 yr old who is prepared to fork out go knows how much of his parents money for a TR and a gash contract.
It is a sad fact that as it stands at the moment I firmly believe there are 16 yr olds still at school who have yet to decide on a career path who have a better chance of flying an airliner than I do !
There are many friends of mine and friends of theirs out there with 200hrs sending cv's to anyone with an email address on a daily basis and getting nowehere . think arefully before you add yourself to this group.
Just my opinion

In many instances, the bigger issue is funding:

Can you afford £80k?
Can you afford not to have an income for 2 years+?
Once flying, can you afford to live on £25k-£30k, especially if you have a training loan + family commitments, in a location that may be countries away from home.
Can you afford to instruct/GA work on £8k/year?

You must know the reality of the industry today, as too many people seem to think that airline flying is still like the BOAC days and that their life will turn out brilliantly if only they were an airline pilot.

Middle Age Itch
 

What are the chances of someone in their mid-40s getting a job after completing their fATPL?

I have the funds, I love flying etc etc but I don't want to be unemployed after 12-14 months of hard work...

Any thoughts appreciated...

Rather slim as an airline pilot in the current market I would say. For jobs like instructing, scenic flights, and more of those GA things I think age is less of an issue. Not that these jobs are plentiful though.

Carry on with the job that earned you those funds you mentioned, buy a share in a light aircraft, go flying for fun.

Every man, woman and their dog has an fATPL these days. There are very few jobs out there. The maths is simple.

Your risk is too great in my humble opinion.

If you've got the funds go for it and never look back!

Middle Age Itch
What are the chances of someone in their mid-40s getting a job after completing their fATPL?

I have the funds, I love flying etc etc but I don't want to be unemployed after 12-14 months of hard work...

Any thoughts appreciated...

It is a VERY VERY VERY tough market out there. You can read what others have posted about the state of the industry so no need for me to go over that. However, if you decide to go this route, these are just my humble opinions.

My advice would be to go the modular route because it will be much cheaper than the integrated route and the certificates i.e. licenses are the same. So go about it the least expensive way. If a school wants you to spend a ton of money for a guaranteed job interview run as fast as you can. I can guarantee you an interview. That means nothing. So, spend your hard earned money wisely, do your research.

In terms of employment (and I'm speaking for the States), my regional has hired guys in their late 40's and early 50's. Regionals, in the States, do hire middle age guys because they will most likely end up staying with the company and will not jump ship to the legacy carriers. As a matter of fact, I flew with a fairly new FO who was in his early 50's. Get your FI certificate instead of your TR, cause at least you will be able to flight instruct while waiting for the industry to recover.


Best of luck. And my advice before you invest in any training program is to network and start making contacts now.

And if you have any questions, feel free to PM me.
Oh yeah, and before you spend a dollar ,or a euro or a pound, make sure you can get a medical.

My advice is don't scratch the itch. The odds of securing a decent paying airline job are massively against you. Save your money and enjoy flying on the weekends. You can even build yourself something and get a whole lot of enjoyment out of it. Plus you will be off each weekend and won't miss any important family events.

Thank you
 

Thank you all for your opinions... a lot for me to think about. I wish I could say no, logic says no, but my heart keeps saying yes.

Thanks
 

Cheers my friend. Sound advice. My only problem is that my heart sometimes overrules my brain... but you're 100 per cent right. I need to think!

How do you know if he will be off every weekend?

The rest I agree with. Little to no chance unfortunately. There are no decent contracts, flexi rubbish if you are lucky and you are just a whore to the industry then. Too old for Ryanair so its a turboprop with no chance to jet progression in todays market. If you do manage it you will be extremely fortunate and will be paid a paltry salary until you retire. Integrated will increase your chance by a small factor (hate to say it but true). Old FO's tend to get the hump sitting in the right seat for the rest of their careers. Buy a fast car instead.

how old is too old?
 

hi...

i am about to finish my ME-IR next month, and i have approx. 200 hours and of course CPL.

i am 28, and i have spent about 4 years in the special forces, and that is the reason that i started my flight training a little later than the rest of the guys in my school.

i know that this is a subjective question, but how old is too old?

i can see that some airlines have a max age which is 35 or 45 for FO, but i imagine that it gets harder with age to get into a company.

best regards.

I was 32 when I got my Comm, never held me back, I have not been unemployed for more than a month since that time (13 yrs). But then I went corporate and not airlines. Personal choice.

It really comes down to money. You can afford to do the training.

Can you afford to train without income for 2 years?

Are you prepared to work for ~£25k/year for a number of years? Lots of people say absolutely when they're at their nice but boring 9-5 job looking out the window, but the reality is when you're getting up at 4am for the 5th day on the trot knowing you've got tough, wintry wx ahead of you, it's a very different story.

Completely understand the heart over head point - it's the only reason anyone would embark on this career today.

Book yourself 4 sector flights a day for a week on EZY or something and see how the novelty wears off by day 5.

You will probably be unemployed for a very long time (over 2 years). This is an honest view and not sugar coated.

I would say go for it, market is not as bad as guys on here make it out to be! you could qualify as a CPL in less than a year, take a line training programe with TR and fly a medium transport category jet. that the way most modern day CPL are going if funds are sufficent.

there is a hiring boom comming next spring, so get going with it now so as to not miss out. :ok:

Don't know your personal circumstances re family etc ..you might consider

1 Do a class1 medical
2 Distance learning for the written exams
3 Do the flying bits
4 Don't give up the day job (this is the hard bit)
5 Find a flying job

Who knows what the employment market will be like in 1 or 2 years but if you have a fatpl you can at least apply for jobs.You may end up having to pay for a type rating,with no guarantee of employment.

As far as i know we only get one life ,if you want something just go for it!

Best of luck.

Not entirely clear from yr first post whether you currently fly yourself, or enjoy flying as pax. Suggest you do some GA to see if you A. enjoy moving planes around the sky and B. have any aptitude for it.

Should you consider aviation as a career, do nothing until you have a Class 1 medical and then read all the threads about lifestyle, Ts & Cs, careers and then think again. And again ..... And then consider the financial implications and the number of unemployed pilots.

Whatever you decide - good luck with it.

Commercial airlines in Australia and Asia: how old is too old?
 

Greetings.

First of all, I have not used this forum for more than four years, so I apologise in advance if I've committed a terrible sin like posting this thread in the wrong place.

I'm interested in hearing from anybody in the airline world who commenced professional pilot training between the ages of 30 and 35, and can tell me whether being over 30 puts one at a disadvantage in terms of securing decent jobs.

I'm almost 32 years old, have done about 14 hours of flying lessons in light aircraft and am completing a Law degree in about four months. I never did serious commercial pilot training in my 20s due to financial constraints, but for over ten years now it has been a persistent dream of mine to be a commercial airline pilot. Despite working for a number of years in a Government Department I loathe this world and want to leave to chase the dream.

I want to commence a CPL course during the next few months, however certain people over the years have tried to discourage me by telling me I'm too old to ever make it to a major airline. They tell me it's a waste of time, but I'm not convinced.

Is there anyone out there who has achieved success in their aviation career after starting serious training in their 30s?

What you need to ask is will an airline take a pilot with low hours commensurate with age in Australia and it's environs.

Best ask the respective airlines for their hiring trends. I doubt you'll get something specific re age as there's laws against it... But in reality, they won't tell you if it's an age v hours thing.

Why does it have to be a MAJOR airline? Not interested in regionals, RFDS, GA-flying, corporate? QANTAS is shrinking, I've been told. Everybody else is doing the opposite.

Got going that I was 29 and by all means I am not even closer to the ideal (?) experience/age-ratio, although I am not a 250-hrs guy.

Good luck, anyway

C1Melbourne
 

I flew with a Captain today who started his commercial training Integrated at 30 and went out into the right hand seat at 33. He got his command 2 months ago aged 38. This is on a Boeing 737-800 in Europe.

He started out with a plan and things worked out nicely. I have an iron in the fire elsewhere at the moment but if it doesn't come off, I'm hoping to have a shot at a potential upgrade at the end of the year. If it works out it will be from starting flight school(modular) to skipper just short of 7 years. I will be just shy of 31. Unfortunately I would envisage quick upgrades like this to come to a very abrupt halt in the not too distant future where I am.

It can work out quite nicely for some, but for others it can be a living nightmare both financially and emotionally.

If you are going to do it you MUST have a plan before you start out. I would imagine it being very difficult to get onto a Jet let alone any sort of major airline in Australia unless you have lots of hours. I have met a few Australians who have come over this neck of the woods to try and forge a career and it worked out, but as always with this profession there are stumbling blocks and inevitably casualties.

I wish you all the luck in this world if you decide to give the career change a shot.

Still time?
 

Hello.

Haven’t posted for a while, so pls bear with me.

Back between 1996 and 2006 I learned to fly. Didn’t have much money, or much time, so I’d go flying maybe once a month or so. Wanted desperately for it to be the start of a career in flying – PPL, then ATPL, then job – and I got as far as my QXL and five of the written exams but then in 2006, for a number of reasons, I stopped. Life got in the way. I didn’t get my licence.

As often happens, though, life has a habit of changing and now some 7 years later I have the chance to finish what I started. But now of course I’m a little bit older; I’m going to be 40 years old this year. Let’s assume that I get my PPL this year or perhaps next, and then rush headlong into commercial training. Let’s assume I’m in a position, say within the next 3 or 4 or 5 years, to start looking for a job as a commercial pilot.

Have I left it too late?

All thoughts, good or bad, gratefully received.

In the current climate anyone who leaves their job to become a pilot is utterly too late, no matter how old they are.

Here

As above, anyone trying to get in now, regardless of age, experience, or wealth, is on a path to financial ruin. It's just not worth the investment even if you do succeed, never mind the risk if you don't!

It can be done
 

If it's of any comfort, I'm in my 40s and I'm planning to leave a very well paid job in journalism to train as a pilot.

I've had to leave it this late because of problems regarding my vision and the Class 1 medical.

With me it's been a lifelong ambition but it all depends on your personal circumstances. If you can afford to take the (calculated) risk I would personally go for it. Once you're in your 50s I think it will be too late.

But you do need to think about it carefully -- have backup plans etc etc. For example, would you go and live in China or the ME if that's the only place you could get an FO job?

TizerTheAppetizer: I don't know about the other airlines in Asia and ME, but in mine in China basically 90% of the experienced ("foreigner") captains don't pass either the screening, either the CAAC sim check, either the medical. And that was for the pilots already "experienced captains".

That's not only a matter of "will you go and live in China", but a matter of "would they hire me" aswell: don't have the illusion this is automatic and only depends on you.