Air Atlantique cadet scheme
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Air Atlantique cadet scheme
I've done a search on this (not the 50/50 scheme), but the most recent info is still quite old.
Can anyone provide some up-to-date info?
I know the basic info (like the fact that cadets are expected to work 7 days p/w, doing unpleasant jobs, with no holidays, bonded for five years after Stage 2 training ends, etc) - but I was hoping someone might be able to provide some info on what it is really like from a cadet's point of view; ie-
Does it mean I could spend a year in miserable conditions, earning very little and watching my debts accrue interest, only to find that there's a fairly good chance of being cut from the scheme due to Atlantic only letting a small quota pass on to the next stage of training?
What are the chances of getting on the scheme in the first place? What is the application process like?
Does the Atlantique group have any bases overseas? If so, what are the chances of getting moved overseas?
Is it an enjoyable company to work for? What are the further career opportunities within the group? How fast can a former cadet expect to be promoted?
It sounds like a great opportunity, but I really want to make sure I'm armed with all the facts before I apply...
Thanks
AB
Can anyone provide some up-to-date info?
I know the basic info (like the fact that cadets are expected to work 7 days p/w, doing unpleasant jobs, with no holidays, bonded for five years after Stage 2 training ends, etc) - but I was hoping someone might be able to provide some info on what it is really like from a cadet's point of view; ie-
Does it mean I could spend a year in miserable conditions, earning very little and watching my debts accrue interest, only to find that there's a fairly good chance of being cut from the scheme due to Atlantic only letting a small quota pass on to the next stage of training?
What are the chances of getting on the scheme in the first place? What is the application process like?
Does the Atlantique group have any bases overseas? If so, what are the chances of getting moved overseas?
Is it an enjoyable company to work for? What are the further career opportunities within the group? How fast can a former cadet expect to be promoted?
It sounds like a great opportunity, but I really want to make sure I'm armed with all the facts before I apply...
Thanks
AB
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AeroBatfink,
If I were you I'd call up AFT and organise to go visit them. Arrange to have a chat with Pete Humphrys (Head of Training) about the scheme. They will probably get one of the current cadets to show you around the place and you can use that as an opportunity to get some answers to your other questions,
TB
If I were you I'd call up AFT and organise to go visit them. Arrange to have a chat with Pete Humphrys (Head of Training) about the scheme. They will probably get one of the current cadets to show you around the place and you can use that as an opportunity to get some answers to your other questions,
TB
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Couldn't disagree more with PUSHTU, I joined them in the mid 90's with a PPL and 120 hours, and a sack load of enthusiasm. Now just touching 4000 hours of which over two thousand is turbine, over 800 hours heavy piston and loads of light twin stuff. I am still working for the group today and still enjoying it. The work is interesting, varied and there are many opportunities for hopping between types and bases if you play it right. They still have the maritime anti-pollution contract which adds to the interest and the cargo charter market provides interesting destinations including potentially the Americas for the Electra fleet.
The crew are great to work with and are all of the same ilk, they enjoy flying and get the job done, whilst still having fun down route.
Money is above average for this end of the industry, in some cases significantly above, and promotion can be rapid based on performance.
Some people have had bad experience with Atlantic, normally though there are two sides to the story. Flight training used to be a bit sporadic with aircraft being available for charters as well as their training commitments, you can guess what got priority. But things have changed these days, JAR has shaken AFT by the scruff of the neck and they are comparable with most British training organisations with dedicated equipment now.
Atlantic have never had time for pilots who are 'precious' or feel they are owed a living, most of the young pilots are from unpriveledged backgrounds, and some including me would have had trouble getting a foot in the door without them.
There are many who have had their careers launched by Atlantic and have gone on to do many things, including Antarctic survey as well as more regular stuff like the regionals. I expect many others will back up my endorsement of the company and tell it like it is.
I am not trying to sell them to you, just re-address the balance of the previous poster who obviously see things differently.
Do your research, pay them a visit, and go in with an open mind.
CRX.
The crew are great to work with and are all of the same ilk, they enjoy flying and get the job done, whilst still having fun down route.
Money is above average for this end of the industry, in some cases significantly above, and promotion can be rapid based on performance.
Some people have had bad experience with Atlantic, normally though there are two sides to the story. Flight training used to be a bit sporadic with aircraft being available for charters as well as their training commitments, you can guess what got priority. But things have changed these days, JAR has shaken AFT by the scruff of the neck and they are comparable with most British training organisations with dedicated equipment now.
Atlantic have never had time for pilots who are 'precious' or feel they are owed a living, most of the young pilots are from unpriveledged backgrounds, and some including me would have had trouble getting a foot in the door without them.
There are many who have had their careers launched by Atlantic and have gone on to do many things, including Antarctic survey as well as more regular stuff like the regionals. I expect many others will back up my endorsement of the company and tell it like it is.
I am not trying to sell them to you, just re-address the balance of the previous poster who obviously see things differently.
Do your research, pay them a visit, and go in with an open mind.
CRX.
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J-H,
Can't really help you about the current state of things, I finished training in 95/96 and am working at one of the groups outstations at the moment. I just wanted to write to re-address the balance a little based on my experiences.
Just give them a call at Atlantic Flight Training, Coventry. Main switchboard is (02476) 307566 and ask for 'Flight training'.
They should be able to tell you all there is to know.
Good luck.
CRX.
Can't really help you about the current state of things, I finished training in 95/96 and am working at one of the groups outstations at the moment. I just wanted to write to re-address the balance a little based on my experiences.
Just give them a call at Atlantic Flight Training, Coventry. Main switchboard is (02476) 307566 and ask for 'Flight training'.
They should be able to tell you all there is to know.
Good luck.
CRX.
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I cant blame PUSHTU for his/her comments about that bunch! I have seen and heard first hand how they treat the cadets and self sponsored students!
AVOID AT ALL COSTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AVOID AT ALL COSTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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J-Heller & Aerobatfink,
There is a scheme running at the moment and I can only repeat the existing advice to call AFT and find out for yourself what it is all about.
A few relevant points are that the training is fully sponsored (No financial input required from the pilot), reasonable accommodation and living expenses are provided by Atlantic and if you can hack it, there is a guaranteed job at the end of it.
I believe that currently there is a requirement to remain with the Company for 4 years after completion of training.
As for prospects, the information I have is that there are currently ten Electra Captains and three DC6 Captains at Atlantic who have graduated from the scheme. Few, if any, of these are older than 30, and most are clearing about £55K per annum.
For a small company it would appear to be a pretty good deal when compared to some of the dodgy schemes run by the LCC's and majors.
Of course there will always be those that just don't have what it takes and then blame the rest of the world for their shortcomings. Perhaps PUSHTU ??
There is a scheme running at the moment and I can only repeat the existing advice to call AFT and find out for yourself what it is all about.
A few relevant points are that the training is fully sponsored (No financial input required from the pilot), reasonable accommodation and living expenses are provided by Atlantic and if you can hack it, there is a guaranteed job at the end of it.
I believe that currently there is a requirement to remain with the Company for 4 years after completion of training.
As for prospects, the information I have is that there are currently ten Electra Captains and three DC6 Captains at Atlantic who have graduated from the scheme. Few, if any, of these are older than 30, and most are clearing about £55K per annum.
For a small company it would appear to be a pretty good deal when compared to some of the dodgy schemes run by the LCC's and majors.
Of course there will always be those that just don't have what it takes and then blame the rest of the world for their shortcomings. Perhaps PUSHTU ??
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SBA.
Dodgy schemes ran by LCC's and Majors? I think not!!! If you asked 100 people what training scheme they would prefer, I can personally guarantee that 99% would say they would prefer a sponsorship from BA and at the end of it fly a nice shiney 737 or a 319, not a dirty old DC 6 or an Electra(yee ha). I certaininly know which one I would opt for!!!
Dodgy schemes ran by LCC's and Majors? I think not!!! If you asked 100 people what training scheme they would prefer, I can personally guarantee that 99% would say they would prefer a sponsorship from BA and at the end of it fly a nice shiney 737 or a 319, not a dirty old DC 6 or an Electra(yee ha). I certaininly know which one I would opt for!!!
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Manxboy, making comments like that is just going to make you sound bitter and twisted, and ultimately take away from any serious valid points that you're trying to put across. I have heard similar worrying things about AFT (more on the people management/beancounting side), but I would hesitate to slag them off too vehemently without substantiation.
Personally speaking, I would fly anything and I would consider rhs in an Electra a very nice position to be in.
Personally speaking, I would fly anything and I would consider rhs in an Electra a very nice position to be in.
SBA, Are you an employee for Air Atlantique, if so i'm most likely going to do some work experience there and i was wondering which number to contact.
I never knew another PPRUNER lived in Leamington Spa!!
I never knew another PPRUNER lived in Leamington Spa!!
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ManxSpeedBird,
If all you want to do until you retire is fly shiny jets then clearly Atlantic is not for you. Your assertion that 99% of wannabees would prefer a BA sponsorship may or may not be correct, but the point is that BA are not offering sponsorship. Add to this the recent cadet schemes run by British Midland and Aer Lingus where none of the pilots were employed on completion of training and you might start to see the point I am trying to make.
As regards the LCC's, I just feel that it is fundamentally wrong for operators to charge pilots for type ratings. I know that this is a view shared by many, but for those that choose to do this, it is your choice.
Lumpy,
The point about the 50/50 scheme is noted and there is certainly some truth in what you say. I think that this scheme looked good at the outset but failed to allow for the fact that it may prove difficult to place the pilots on completion of the training. The question is, could or should anyone have foreseen the present recruitment market. The best I can come up with is maybe, with hindsight.
If all you want to do until you retire is fly shiny jets then clearly Atlantic is not for you. Your assertion that 99% of wannabees would prefer a BA sponsorship may or may not be correct, but the point is that BA are not offering sponsorship. Add to this the recent cadet schemes run by British Midland and Aer Lingus where none of the pilots were employed on completion of training and you might start to see the point I am trying to make.
As regards the LCC's, I just feel that it is fundamentally wrong for operators to charge pilots for type ratings. I know that this is a view shared by many, but for those that choose to do this, it is your choice.
Lumpy,
The point about the 50/50 scheme is noted and there is certainly some truth in what you say. I think that this scheme looked good at the outset but failed to allow for the fact that it may prove difficult to place the pilots on completion of the training. The question is, could or should anyone have foreseen the present recruitment market. The best I can come up with is maybe, with hindsight.
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Pushtu, I don't know you but you seem bitter. You didn't fail to get through the door did you..............
Now Mr Manx, or *****. You have given Atlantic a real bashing, but without relying on rumour, hearsay and speculation let's put into perspective the reasons why you feel so bitter.
You can obviously fly, you have a PPL, but commercial flying is a different matter. You where quite happy when you had a good flight and the instructor was ok. You had a bad flight and He/she was sh*te. You changed instructors. Read previous 2 sentences again.
Like a spoilt child you whinged and whined your way through all the available instructors until there were none left to pander to your inate superiority.
The fuglies (cadets) work very hard here. They are slaves to the cause, but ask them if they would do it again and the answer will be an resounding yes. They realise that they are getting a great deal. Just look at what they have that you don't. Commitment, stamina, sense of humour and above all commercial piloting skills.
The 50/50 scheme has achieved what it set out to do, but unfortunately the there had to be a more tightly bound set of standards to achieve and maintain. Those that have made it through, and those still going through will be fine. Their costs were halved and their employment opportunities will be far greater than those that go it alone.
*****, I am afraid that even with the backing of your government you just could not cut it. In life you must eccept your limitations with honesty and good grace, but if you can't and you do decide to fling dirt then expect some of it to stick to your fingers.
Now Mr Manx, or *****. You have given Atlantic a real bashing, but without relying on rumour, hearsay and speculation let's put into perspective the reasons why you feel so bitter.
You can obviously fly, you have a PPL, but commercial flying is a different matter. You where quite happy when you had a good flight and the instructor was ok. You had a bad flight and He/she was sh*te. You changed instructors. Read previous 2 sentences again.
Like a spoilt child you whinged and whined your way through all the available instructors until there were none left to pander to your inate superiority.
The fuglies (cadets) work very hard here. They are slaves to the cause, but ask them if they would do it again and the answer will be an resounding yes. They realise that they are getting a great deal. Just look at what they have that you don't. Commitment, stamina, sense of humour and above all commercial piloting skills.
The 50/50 scheme has achieved what it set out to do, but unfortunately the there had to be a more tightly bound set of standards to achieve and maintain. Those that have made it through, and those still going through will be fine. Their costs were halved and their employment opportunities will be far greater than those that go it alone.
*****, I am afraid that even with the backing of your government you just could not cut it. In life you must eccept your limitations with honesty and good grace, but if you can't and you do decide to fling dirt then expect some of it to stick to your fingers.
Last edited by Wee Weasley Welshman; 7th Dec 2002 at 00:24.
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I can not agree more with CRX's comments. I joined as a cadet in the late 90's and have now got 3000+ hours with 2000 on turbines and the rest on Daks and 404's. It is undoubtedly hard work compared to the pampered life of major airline but well worth it. If you want to fly (really fly not run a computer) then this is the best airline in europe.
The fugly scheme provides you with a no risk route in to aviation. You don't end up 60,000 in debt to the bank at the end like some of the schemes being put about by Ezy and others where if the airline goes bust (however unlikely) the repo men will be knocking on your parents door to take their dvd player. There are a small number of cadets (usually 4 to a course) so you get plenty of personal tuition and AFT has excellent career instructors both in Flight and ground school. You're not being tought on the other side of the planet by a 19 year old who can't get an airline job himself.
Once on line the flying is varied with current types ranging from the percival prentice through the DC-3/6 to the ATR42 and up to the L188. There are even a couple of biz-jets around if that is really your thing.
The down sides Late nights and early starts often repetative night flights and lots of time away from your family.
Remember the aeorplanes are old which means that you may have to load your own cargo, do a 7.5 hour flight to canada in an Electra at 2AM without a working autopilot in winter and finish it off with a minimas approach using flight instruments that went out with the wright brothers. But IF you can do it then nothing else in your career should cause you any problems.
Good luck I recommend it
The fugly scheme provides you with a no risk route in to aviation. You don't end up 60,000 in debt to the bank at the end like some of the schemes being put about by Ezy and others where if the airline goes bust (however unlikely) the repo men will be knocking on your parents door to take their dvd player. There are a small number of cadets (usually 4 to a course) so you get plenty of personal tuition and AFT has excellent career instructors both in Flight and ground school. You're not being tought on the other side of the planet by a 19 year old who can't get an airline job himself.
Once on line the flying is varied with current types ranging from the percival prentice through the DC-3/6 to the ATR42 and up to the L188. There are even a couple of biz-jets around if that is really your thing.
The down sides Late nights and early starts often repetative night flights and lots of time away from your family.
Remember the aeorplanes are old which means that you may have to load your own cargo, do a 7.5 hour flight to canada in an Electra at 2AM without a working autopilot in winter and finish it off with a minimas approach using flight instruments that went out with the wright brothers. But IF you can do it then nothing else in your career should cause you any problems.
Good luck I recommend it
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I entirely agree with OneMile's comments on Manx,
Flying's all about cutting the mustard, and even with the somewhat 'jobs for the boys' sponsorship you breezed into - not even the offer of a job at the end of it (it seems) was enough for you to take criticism on the chin and react to it.
It sounds that you're one of a few too many people I've come across who think that having the cash for licence automatically guarantees you one - and when you finally realised that a bit of effort was required on your part, you threw your toys out of the pram....
Stop rubbishing your instructors and look at your own abilities before criticising the professionals who are qualified to train you.
Flying's all about cutting the mustard, and even with the somewhat 'jobs for the boys' sponsorship you breezed into - not even the offer of a job at the end of it (it seems) was enough for you to take criticism on the chin and react to it.
It sounds that you're one of a few too many people I've come across who think that having the cash for licence automatically guarantees you one - and when you finally realised that a bit of effort was required on your part, you threw your toys out of the pram....
Stop rubbishing your instructors and look at your own abilities before criticising the professionals who are qualified to train you.
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Chaps,
Thought I may as well shove in my two pen'rth for what's worth. (Tuppence apparently....)
I fly the Electra for Atlantic, having come through the fuglie scheme many summers ago, so I reckon I'm qualified to say a few things. Now I'm not a "company man". I see that the company has bad points as well as good, so talking about the reality of my day to day work, let's start with the bad.
Long hours, antisocial working patterns, makes it very difficult indeed to run a normal social life. Frequent pressure to work days off, old aeroplanes which have, shall we say, their idiosyncracies.
Right, that's that done, now what, from my own selfish perspective, are the good points?
I got my ATPL without ever paying for an hours' flying. I work with blokes who are also my mates. Everyone is my age and shares my interests. I can get pi**ed with the chief pilot over a curry. Early promotion (two years in the right being normal). I earn enough money to feed my sportscar habit very nicely. I do look forward to the day when I will be flying a shiney jet, but I like the fact that, by the time I retire, there will not be many pilots around who started their career on a four engined turbo prop. The Electra is a great machine to hand fly. There is plenty of scope for an individual to do the kind of work that they like - some prefer flying on scheduled cargo routes, others like the ad hoc side, and it is quite possible to do more of one and less of another to suit.
As for the fuglie scheme (which may well have changed dramatically since I did it) It was seriously bloody hard work, make no mistake about it, seven days a week for the first six months, no money, loads of pressure, all that jazz. BUT!!! I reckon I had a very good apprenticeship which was entirely free. While I was training I also got to see all the workings of the company which would eventually employ me (better than any LOFT course going)
So to sum up... Was the training hard going? Yes.
Is it hard work day to day? Yes.
Am I glad I joined? Yes.
Would I do it again if I were 21 and looking for my first job? Yes.
Will I be here until I retire? No
If you are a prima donna and expecting to become a pilot in the hope of being treated with kid gloves and worshipped while you tell war stories, then good luck to you but Atlantic is not where you want to be. If you want a tough and demanding job, are not afraid to get your hands dirty and like having a laugh, flying aeroplanes and having a few beers with your mates in the bar afterwards, then come on in the water's lovely!
Thought I may as well shove in my two pen'rth for what's worth. (Tuppence apparently....)
I fly the Electra for Atlantic, having come through the fuglie scheme many summers ago, so I reckon I'm qualified to say a few things. Now I'm not a "company man". I see that the company has bad points as well as good, so talking about the reality of my day to day work, let's start with the bad.
Long hours, antisocial working patterns, makes it very difficult indeed to run a normal social life. Frequent pressure to work days off, old aeroplanes which have, shall we say, their idiosyncracies.
Right, that's that done, now what, from my own selfish perspective, are the good points?
I got my ATPL without ever paying for an hours' flying. I work with blokes who are also my mates. Everyone is my age and shares my interests. I can get pi**ed with the chief pilot over a curry. Early promotion (two years in the right being normal). I earn enough money to feed my sportscar habit very nicely. I do look forward to the day when I will be flying a shiney jet, but I like the fact that, by the time I retire, there will not be many pilots around who started their career on a four engined turbo prop. The Electra is a great machine to hand fly. There is plenty of scope for an individual to do the kind of work that they like - some prefer flying on scheduled cargo routes, others like the ad hoc side, and it is quite possible to do more of one and less of another to suit.
As for the fuglie scheme (which may well have changed dramatically since I did it) It was seriously bloody hard work, make no mistake about it, seven days a week for the first six months, no money, loads of pressure, all that jazz. BUT!!! I reckon I had a very good apprenticeship which was entirely free. While I was training I also got to see all the workings of the company which would eventually employ me (better than any LOFT course going)
So to sum up... Was the training hard going? Yes.
Is it hard work day to day? Yes.
Am I glad I joined? Yes.
Would I do it again if I were 21 and looking for my first job? Yes.
Will I be here until I retire? No
If you are a prima donna and expecting to become a pilot in the hope of being treated with kid gloves and worshipped while you tell war stories, then good luck to you but Atlantic is not where you want to be. If you want a tough and demanding job, are not afraid to get your hands dirty and like having a laugh, flying aeroplanes and having a few beers with your mates in the bar afterwards, then come on in the water's lovely!
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has anyone found out about this scheme.is it running?
i have only just joined the forum, and the scheme sounds great. i live near coventry. i wrote to the chairman mike collet about a week ago... no reply, who should i talk to about the scheme?
very close to me..im in stratford.
easy 226 did you get any further with this? i'd very much like to do the same thing.
i have only just joined the forum, and the scheme sounds great. i live near coventry. i wrote to the chairman mike collet about a week ago... no reply, who should i talk to about the scheme?
I never knew another PPRUNER lived in Leamington Spa!!
i'm most likely going to do some work experience there and i was wondering which number to contact.