CAE Oxford - Contracts for 2020
Thread Starter
CAE Oxford - Contracts for 2020
Hello all,
Having passed my Skills Assessment in August this year and with a view to starting my training in March/April 2020 (Need the time to facilitate the adjustment of my current business and time to put other affairs in order) I reached out to Oxford to look at provisional start dates for this period. I have been told that there are currently no Integrated ATPL Contracts available yet for 2020, as they're "waiting on course details".
Just curious to see if others, looking at the whitetail scheme have had similar feedback from them or alternative if you're on an easyJet or similar scheme if you already have a 2020 start date? Whilst 2020 might seem "ages" away we're a little over 3 months, I find it curious that they haven't yet structured their 2020 diary for their next intake.
Reading between the lines and from general feedback it seems perhaps that they've bitten off more than they can chew with regards to the easyJet MPL and are now having to play catch up.
On a side note, I passed assessments in 2010 and 2015, both times other things came up but I have found that my experience of CAE Oxford on this occasion hasn't been up to the standards I had before which is a little disappointing but again reading on here and elsewhere, it doesn't appear that I'm in the minority - Again, one could assume this is down to increased workload whilst quality has dropped?
All thoughts welcome,
Having passed my Skills Assessment in August this year and with a view to starting my training in March/April 2020 (Need the time to facilitate the adjustment of my current business and time to put other affairs in order) I reached out to Oxford to look at provisional start dates for this period. I have been told that there are currently no Integrated ATPL Contracts available yet for 2020, as they're "waiting on course details".
Just curious to see if others, looking at the whitetail scheme have had similar feedback from them or alternative if you're on an easyJet or similar scheme if you already have a 2020 start date? Whilst 2020 might seem "ages" away we're a little over 3 months, I find it curious that they haven't yet structured their 2020 diary for their next intake.
Reading between the lines and from general feedback it seems perhaps that they've bitten off more than they can chew with regards to the easyJet MPL and are now having to play catch up.
On a side note, I passed assessments in 2010 and 2015, both times other things came up but I have found that my experience of CAE Oxford on this occasion hasn't been up to the standards I had before which is a little disappointing but again reading on here and elsewhere, it doesn't appear that I'm in the minority - Again, one could assume this is down to increased workload whilst quality has dropped?
All thoughts welcome,
de minimus non curat lex
Go MODULAR. Plenty of quality providers who wouldn’t treat you as just a number aka ‘puppy farm’ operation.
You are after all the paying customer. Spend it wisely once you have obtained your Class One Medical.
You are after all the paying customer. Spend it wisely once you have obtained your Class One Medical.
Thread Starter
At 27, I would love to go modular - However I run my own company which currently see's me working 6 days a week - 9-6 at the office plus hours either side and Sundays. It's unrealistic of me to expect to get home after a day of work and switch mode to ATPL revision - My brain is already saturated with VAT, sales, repairs, customers, accounting & all the rest that a business entails to then want to concentrate in the evenings on that. So, for this reason integrated appeals far more to me, allowing me to step away and focus entirely on my training. But yes, I'm no longer a virgin when it comes to this debate that I've been having with myself as well, given I've already got the PPL and 150 odd hours logged, modular would financially make more sense but to get my brain into gear, and fluidly pass my theory integrated makes more sense.
It's something I also want to have completed before 30, not that being over 30 is a barrier to the world of commercial but from my own body perspective.
Indeed as a paying customer I'm far more aware of this now, then I was 7 years ago when I first looked at OAA - Hence my concern with their current position on their 2020 schedule. As mentioned BREXIT could well be a concern, but I'd have thought they'd be more forth coming if that were the main issue...
It's something I also want to have completed before 30, not that being over 30 is a barrier to the world of commercial but from my own body perspective.
Indeed as a paying customer I'm far more aware of this now, then I was 7 years ago when I first looked at OAA - Hence my concern with their current position on their 2020 schedule. As mentioned BREXIT could well be a concern, but I'd have thought they'd be more forth coming if that were the main issue...
de minimus non curat lex
What stops you attending full time modular ground school. Bristol, Bournemouth to name but two?
With the hours you have, full time CPL/IR modular flying training is also possible, subject to any small shortfall that you may have.
In fact you will find that this route will take a shorter time than any of the ‘Big 3’ even if you are given some credit for previous experience.
Another option is PPL/IR, and then CPL later.
I doubt a ‘puppy farm’ would suit you.
With the hours you have, full time CPL/IR modular flying training is also possible, subject to any small shortfall that you may have.
In fact you will find that this route will take a shorter time than any of the ‘Big 3’ even if you are given some credit for previous experience.
Another option is PPL/IR, and then CPL later.
I doubt a ‘puppy farm’ would suit you.
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What stops you attending full time modular ground school. Bristol, Bournemouth to name but two?
With the hours you have, full time CPL/IR modular flying training is also possible, subject to any small shortfall that you may have.
In fact you will find that this route will take a shorter time than any of the ‘Big 3’ even if you are given some credit for previous experience.
Another option is PPL/IR, and then CPL later.
I doubt a ‘puppy farm’ would suit you.
With the hours you have, full time CPL/IR modular flying training is also possible, subject to any small shortfall that you may have.
In fact you will find that this route will take a shorter time than any of the ‘Big 3’ even if you are given some credit for previous experience.
Another option is PPL/IR, and then CPL later.
I doubt a ‘puppy farm’ would suit you.
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Towards the end of my time there, it seemed the accountants and corporate bods had full control of the place. The intakes kept rolling in, with courses constantly becoming bigger. It was a case of throwing hundreds more students through an already tired and overworked machine. More bums on seats equals more money. Hammer the instructors and aircraft, with just minutes between one flight and the next.
To keep things streamlined, they closed CAE Brussels’ IR department, but also opened CAE Madrid. They now send all their students to CAE Phoenix for VFR training and CPL, and everyone to Oxford for the IR. The students kept pouring in, and the disgruntled and overworked instructors kept leaving. Student to instructor ratios were in excess of 10:1 when I was there, so I dread to think what it could be now.
The school were giving students a few months off between finishing their CPL in the USA, and starting their IR in Oxford, as an obvious solution of controlling the mass of students flooding into the Oxford IR department. They used to quote 12 weeks for an IR, but now it would be in excess of 20 weeks. Far too many students for what they were capable of dealing with.
I assume what’s happening now to be an attempt at controlling the flow of students into the school, which is a very wise move. Hopefully they’ve realised that having 100 students in the system making good progress and finishing on schedule is better than having 180 students, all of which finish 5 months behind schedule.
Taking 8 months to do your VFR training and CPL, when they quoted 5, or 24 weeks to do your IR when they quoted 12 is not the least bit amusing. Hopefully, they’re trying to stop this by controlling the inward flow of students.
To keep things streamlined, they closed CAE Brussels’ IR department, but also opened CAE Madrid. They now send all their students to CAE Phoenix for VFR training and CPL, and everyone to Oxford for the IR. The students kept pouring in, and the disgruntled and overworked instructors kept leaving. Student to instructor ratios were in excess of 10:1 when I was there, so I dread to think what it could be now.
The school were giving students a few months off between finishing their CPL in the USA, and starting their IR in Oxford, as an obvious solution of controlling the mass of students flooding into the Oxford IR department. They used to quote 12 weeks for an IR, but now it would be in excess of 20 weeks. Far too many students for what they were capable of dealing with.
I assume what’s happening now to be an attempt at controlling the flow of students into the school, which is a very wise move. Hopefully they’ve realised that having 100 students in the system making good progress and finishing on schedule is better than having 180 students, all of which finish 5 months behind schedule.
Taking 8 months to do your VFR training and CPL, when they quoted 5, or 24 weeks to do your IR when they quoted 12 is not the least bit amusing. Hopefully, they’re trying to stop this by controlling the inward flow of students.
de minimus non curat lex
Towards the end of my time there, it seemed the accountants and corporate bods had full control of the place. The intakes kept rolling in, with courses constantly becoming bigger. It was a case of throwing hundreds more students through an already tired and overworked machine. More bums on seats equals more money. Hammer the instructors and aircraft, with just minutes between one flight and the next.
The students kept pouring in, and the disgruntled and overworked instructors kept leaving. Student to instructor ratios were in excess of 10:1
The students kept pouring in, and the disgruntled and overworked instructors kept leaving. Student to instructor ratios were in excess of 10:1
The workforce will undoubtedly vote with their feet. It isn’t until there is a significant profit dip that common sense will start to prevail.
“The floggings will continue until moral improves”
Under CAP509 (last century) CPL/IR approved training, the recommended maximum ratio was 6:1 for the twin instructor and that was with full time simulator instructors doing their bit.
Reputations are hard acquire and takes sometime, but can be lost in a blink of an eye.
Potential customers aren’t stupid. They recognise that quality full time modular ATOs exist.
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The rumour is that Oxford will close, so maybe that is the reason for there being no course details ?
The sim centre at Oxford closed suddenly and was moved to Gatwick in January, and the groundschool side seems to be gradually being run down (fewer courses, ground instructors leaving etc). They have spent some effort building up the Madrid site for groundschool, utilising exciting CAE premises there, so I would guess that the same model would apply with Gatwick. My guess is that MPL students would go there and European students to Madrid and Brussels.
The small footprint of buildings they have left is in such a poor state rumour is that the airport want to demolish and build a business aviation centre, although they presumably would have to make alternative arrangements for a control tower.
there is also the issue of flying - if the UK is booted out of EASA then Arizona is finished. Only the CAA accepted EASA training in a non EASA stated so they would have to relocate - maybe Madrid ?
There would be no loss of Oxford name since the whole Kidlington site had all references to Oxford removed 18 months ago and replaced with CAE log.
As was mentioned above, all the corporates rSwipes now dominate the places. They don't come cheap and that is what you are paying for if you dumb enough to fall for some very tired marketing. It's just amazing that they still think the name means people will wait for them to get their (extremely disorganised ) rear end into gear.
The sim centre at Oxford closed suddenly and was moved to Gatwick in January, and the groundschool side seems to be gradually being run down (fewer courses, ground instructors leaving etc). They have spent some effort building up the Madrid site for groundschool, utilising exciting CAE premises there, so I would guess that the same model would apply with Gatwick. My guess is that MPL students would go there and European students to Madrid and Brussels.
The small footprint of buildings they have left is in such a poor state rumour is that the airport want to demolish and build a business aviation centre, although they presumably would have to make alternative arrangements for a control tower.
there is also the issue of flying - if the UK is booted out of EASA then Arizona is finished. Only the CAA accepted EASA training in a non EASA stated so they would have to relocate - maybe Madrid ?
There would be no loss of Oxford name since the whole Kidlington site had all references to Oxford removed 18 months ago and replaced with CAE log.
As was mentioned above, all the corporates rSwipes now dominate the places. They don't come cheap and that is what you are paying for if you dumb enough to fall for some very tired marketing. It's just amazing that they still think the name means people will wait for them to get their (extremely disorganised ) rear end into gear.
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The rumour is that Oxford will close, so maybe that is the reason for there being no course details ?
The sim centre at Oxford closed suddenly and was moved to Gatwick in January, and the groundschool side seems to be gradually being run down (fewer courses, ground instructors leaving etc). They have spent some effort building up the Madrid site for groundschool, utilising exciting CAE premises there, so I would guess that the same model would apply with Gatwick. My guess is that MPL students would go there and European students to Madrid and Brussels.
The small footprint of buildings they have left is in such a poor state rumour is that the airport want to demolish and build a business aviation centre, although they presumably would have to make alternative arrangements for a control tower.
there is also the issue of flying - if the UK is booted out of EASA then Arizona is finished. Only the CAA accepted EASA training in a non EASA stated so they would have to relocate - maybe Madrid ?
There would be no loss of Oxford name since the whole Kidlington site had all references to Oxford removed 18 months ago and replaced with CAE logo.
As was mentioned above, all the corporates rSwipes now dominate the places. They don't come cheap and that is what you are paying for if you dumb enough to fall for some very tired marketing. It's just amazing that they still think the name means people will wait for them to get their (extremely disorganised ) rear end into gear.
The sim centre at Oxford closed suddenly and was moved to Gatwick in January, and the groundschool side seems to be gradually being run down (fewer courses, ground instructors leaving etc). They have spent some effort building up the Madrid site for groundschool, utilising exciting CAE premises there, so I would guess that the same model would apply with Gatwick. My guess is that MPL students would go there and European students to Madrid and Brussels.
The small footprint of buildings they have left is in such a poor state rumour is that the airport want to demolish and build a business aviation centre, although they presumably would have to make alternative arrangements for a control tower.
there is also the issue of flying - if the UK is booted out of EASA then Arizona is finished. Only the CAA accepted EASA training in a non EASA stated so they would have to relocate - maybe Madrid ?
There would be no loss of Oxford name since the whole Kidlington site had all references to Oxford removed 18 months ago and replaced with CAE logo.
As was mentioned above, all the corporates rSwipes now dominate the places. They don't come cheap and that is what you are paying for if you dumb enough to fall for some very tired marketing. It's just amazing that they still think the name means people will wait for them to get their (extremely disorganised ) rear end into gear.
It also does sound strange how they're being reluctant to give out 2020 start dates; I have heard that there is quite a backlog at the moment especially with the easy MPL, so they may be trying to get through that first.
Annoying though, as I could very much do without all this uncertainty when i'm about to apply!!
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I passed an interview as an FI for a non-UK FTO. They decided to forgo hiring me until BREXIT was sorted or I “switched” my UK issued EASA Licence to say, an Irish issued one.
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LB123,
its a problem also with L3, so it would be very wise to do some research.
if you are in London, Stapleford get very good results indeed. Currently the modular schools are getting people through and into jobs, while CAE/L3 are bogged down with delays, lack of instructors, and some very disgruntled ex-customers.
as mentioned by COvec, if you go to Atlantic in Cork or Diamond in Sweden you get an EASA licence, which is an unknown with CAE at them moment.
no need to waste £100k on "integrated" when you can get the same job at the end at 60% of the cost. Plus you can selected providers at each stage, while with Integtared once you have signed up with the, you are stuck with them regardless of how shabbily they treat you. Such as back of the queue behind Sleazyjet / military students.
Seems to be a chaotic situation if you can’t tell people what sort of course you will run.
its a problem also with L3, so it would be very wise to do some research.
if you are in London, Stapleford get very good results indeed. Currently the modular schools are getting people through and into jobs, while CAE/L3 are bogged down with delays, lack of instructors, and some very disgruntled ex-customers.
as mentioned by COvec, if you go to Atlantic in Cork or Diamond in Sweden you get an EASA licence, which is an unknown with CAE at them moment.
no need to waste £100k on "integrated" when you can get the same job at the end at 60% of the cost. Plus you can selected providers at each stage, while with Integtared once you have signed up with the, you are stuck with them regardless of how shabbily they treat you. Such as back of the queue behind Sleazyjet / military students.
Seems to be a chaotic situation if you can’t tell people what sort of course you will run.
Last edited by B61; 30th Sep 2019 at 11:40.
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Hello all,
Having passed my Skills Assessment in August this year and with a view to starting my training in March/April 2020 (Need the time to facilitate the adjustment of my current business and time to put other affairs in order) I reached out to Oxford to look at provisional start dates for this period. I have been told that there are currently no Integrated ATPL Contracts available yet for 2020, as they're "waiting on course details".
Just curious to see if others, looking at the whitetail scheme have had similar feedback from them or alternative if you're on an easyJet or similar scheme if you already have a 2020 start date? Whilst 2020 might seem "ages" away we're a little over 3 months, I find it curious that they haven't yet structured their 2020 diary for their next intake.
Reading between the lines and from general feedback it seems perhaps that they've bitten off more than they can chew with regards to the easyJet MPL and are now having to play catch up.
On a side note, I passed assessments in 2010 and 2015, both times other things came up but I have found that my experience of CAE Oxford on this occasion hasn't been up to the standards I had before which is a little disappointing but again reading on here and elsewhere, it doesn't appear that I'm in the minority - Again, one could assume this is down to increased workload whilst quality has dropped?
All thoughts welcome,
Having passed my Skills Assessment in August this year and with a view to starting my training in March/April 2020 (Need the time to facilitate the adjustment of my current business and time to put other affairs in order) I reached out to Oxford to look at provisional start dates for this period. I have been told that there are currently no Integrated ATPL Contracts available yet for 2020, as they're "waiting on course details".
Just curious to see if others, looking at the whitetail scheme have had similar feedback from them or alternative if you're on an easyJet or similar scheme if you already have a 2020 start date? Whilst 2020 might seem "ages" away we're a little over 3 months, I find it curious that they haven't yet structured their 2020 diary for their next intake.
Reading between the lines and from general feedback it seems perhaps that they've bitten off more than they can chew with regards to the easyJet MPL and are now having to play catch up.
On a side note, I passed assessments in 2010 and 2015, both times other things came up but I have found that my experience of CAE Oxford on this occasion hasn't been up to the standards I had before which is a little disappointing but again reading on here and elsewhere, it doesn't appear that I'm in the minority - Again, one could assume this is down to increased workload whilst quality has dropped?
All thoughts welcome,
Pm for any more info otherwise best of luck, braver person than me to start training in the current climate.
Thread Starter
Thoroughly appreciate the detailed, comprehensive and frank responses to my original post, you can always rely on these forums for frankness and honesty when it's most needed and for that I'm grateful. I think it's easier I tackle each point in one post without multi quoting.
I guess on my part, naivety that OAA/CAE still lead the pack, simply because it was a path I'd walked before and the feeling I got seemed right, however on this occasion it's certainly caused me to review and open my eyes to other prospectives.
As far as the modular route goes - again, I wasn't aware that many now offer full time theory, including FTA who're a 30 minute drive, or 22m on the train with no changes and I can continue to live in my property without having to relocate - This does completely re-open the possibility of modular as the business could be practically put on the back burner to allow me to complete the theory and then brought back into function to allow me to fund the MEP/ME IR/ME CPL (which FTA offer as a package) along with the UPRT and MCC/JOC. However FTA's Theory is 9 months, vs 6 at many others so I'm going to visit and discuss what's possible in terms of distance learning/full time combination.
I also have use of a PA28 based at Andrewsfield (Where I gained by PPL - Uncles A/C) which will allow me to hour build & night rating at a far more cost-effective proposition. .
Thank you to those who've been through CAE and their thoughts and contributions, it's always good to take a view from that side, at the end of the day it is a business and beancounters rule the world, costs are everything but their attitude with what I've experienced has really changed my frame of mind.
Does anyone here have any experience of FTA? I will find time this week coming to go down (believe they do it on a Thursday) but they also offer an integrated scheme with a discount applied if already holding a PPL - so another option, but it would make more sense possibly modular.
Again, all thoughts welcome - thank you for taking the time to respond.
I guess on my part, naivety that OAA/CAE still lead the pack, simply because it was a path I'd walked before and the feeling I got seemed right, however on this occasion it's certainly caused me to review and open my eyes to other prospectives.
As far as the modular route goes - again, I wasn't aware that many now offer full time theory, including FTA who're a 30 minute drive, or 22m on the train with no changes and I can continue to live in my property without having to relocate - This does completely re-open the possibility of modular as the business could be practically put on the back burner to allow me to complete the theory and then brought back into function to allow me to fund the MEP/ME IR/ME CPL (which FTA offer as a package) along with the UPRT and MCC/JOC. However FTA's Theory is 9 months, vs 6 at many others so I'm going to visit and discuss what's possible in terms of distance learning/full time combination.
I also have use of a PA28 based at Andrewsfield (Where I gained by PPL - Uncles A/C) which will allow me to hour build & night rating at a far more cost-effective proposition. .
Thank you to those who've been through CAE and their thoughts and contributions, it's always good to take a view from that side, at the end of the day it is a business and beancounters rule the world, costs are everything but their attitude with what I've experienced has really changed my frame of mind.
Does anyone here have any experience of FTA? I will find time this week coming to go down (believe they do it on a Thursday) but they also offer an integrated scheme with a discount applied if already holding a PPL - so another option, but it would make more sense possibly modular.
Again, all thoughts welcome - thank you for taking the time to respond.
Thread Starter
& on a side note - anyone have any thoughts on recovering the costs spent on a CAE assessment given they've been unable to offer a start date within 6 months...? 
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Assessment ? ...write it off and put it down to experience.
FTA have a very good reputation. They have been the school of choice for a number of students who got kicked out of the integrated courses after having had too many fails at ground exams (4 is the limit at at least one integrated school). RAF attitudes and "chop" mentality which they think maintains standards still prevail in the bigger outfits! It worked out well for them - they were complete and getting jobs while their former classmates got stuck taking many months due to lack of instructors at integrated schools due to worsening Ts&Cs/pay/buoyant job market. Although industrial relations generally are in a poor state in aviation (BA being an example).
9 months for groundschool will be due to it being over three phases at FTA with the associated gaps due to exams etc. The integrated schools do it in 6 months in an attempt to keep to their 15-16 month advertised schedule. All pointless "hurry up and then wait" nonsense when they have students with all exams complete who then sit around for months waiting for flying training to start. Just pointless really. Better to give up the fiction of a 15 month course and will make it a more honest two years ? When everyone realises that you can get the whole course done as a modular student in about 6 months less than an "integrated" takes, then plans must change.
Perhaps they will abandon "integrated" entirely at CAE, which is why they cannot finalise course details ? And go for a modular approach ? "Integrated" has not been really the case for almost 20 years, it is just modular back-to-back with all the groundschool up front and about 50 hours clipped off the flying. Airlines have see through the b/s over the past 3-4 years and now take from either route. Big school names mean little to them. They just choose ones with a CPL/IR who do well in the interview and sim assessment.
Also at your age, and with some flying experience, you would be asked questions as to why you did not take the modular route. It would suggest lack of initiative and imagination !
FTA have a very good reputation. They have been the school of choice for a number of students who got kicked out of the integrated courses after having had too many fails at ground exams (4 is the limit at at least one integrated school). RAF attitudes and "chop" mentality which they think maintains standards still prevail in the bigger outfits! It worked out well for them - they were complete and getting jobs while their former classmates got stuck taking many months due to lack of instructors at integrated schools due to worsening Ts&Cs/pay/buoyant job market. Although industrial relations generally are in a poor state in aviation (BA being an example).
9 months for groundschool will be due to it being over three phases at FTA with the associated gaps due to exams etc. The integrated schools do it in 6 months in an attempt to keep to their 15-16 month advertised schedule. All pointless "hurry up and then wait" nonsense when they have students with all exams complete who then sit around for months waiting for flying training to start. Just pointless really. Better to give up the fiction of a 15 month course and will make it a more honest two years ? When everyone realises that you can get the whole course done as a modular student in about 6 months less than an "integrated" takes, then plans must change.
Perhaps they will abandon "integrated" entirely at CAE, which is why they cannot finalise course details ? And go for a modular approach ? "Integrated" has not been really the case for almost 20 years, it is just modular back-to-back with all the groundschool up front and about 50 hours clipped off the flying. Airlines have see through the b/s over the past 3-4 years and now take from either route. Big school names mean little to them. They just choose ones with a CPL/IR who do well in the interview and sim assessment.
Also at your age, and with some flying experience, you would be asked questions as to why you did not take the modular route. It would suggest lack of initiative and imagination !
Last edited by B61; 30th Sep 2019 at 11:56.
de minimus non curat lex
B61 raises some interesting points.
FTE Jerez was the last large ATO to drop the true “integrated” style of course earlier this decade.
Day ON, day OFF flying / ground school during the SE phase.
It then became a block of GS, followed by a block of flying. At least with the exams being done on the computer, you don’t wait 2 weeks anymore for the results to be published.
As for the valued customer who doesn’t achieve first time passes, it can reflect their maturity.
It doesn't remotely represent year one at university, where socialising plays a significant part of the activities for those who can afford it. There are exceptions. Law & Medicine to name but two courses, where ‘head in the books’ is required from the start.
EASA studies is fully head on from day one of GS. 9-5 five days a week. 2-3 hours study each night, 5/6 days a week is required. A bit of OCD helps.
Do that and obtaining good results should be a stroll in the park. You simply keep nibbling away at it from day 1.
The analogy is the process of “OSMOSIS”. The material once described by an old hand (ex RAF nav) as HIGH volume, LOW grade material to learn. His other view was that if you were “thick” at the ground school, you would be “thick” at the flying. There is a strong correlation between brain power in the writtens & the flying. Not always.
After all, it is not Fast Jet training.
There are those who would say that age 21 should be the minimum age to commence professional training. A degree / life experience building maturity, is a critical ingredient of a *junior bird man*. The degree doesn’t have to be even remotely aviation oriented such as aeronautical engineering etc. Foreign language, History, English, science etc would be well chosen courses. A valuable meaningful degree and not one which might be regarded as “underwater basket weaving”.
There are always exceptions where a young person aged 18 have the necessary maturity. They are, however, as rare as rocking horse sh_t.
Note: in these days a political correctness the phrase *junior bird man* is a generic phrase reflecting which gender you orientate towards.
A phrase used by one Sandy Thomson last century who ran stand alone groundschool under CAP509. Pete Lyons are well. Booker May 1992. A really enjoyable month with such legends. I didn’t miss the flying one little bit. ATPL nav block ✔️DCO
FTE Jerez was the last large ATO to drop the true “integrated” style of course earlier this decade.
Day ON, day OFF flying / ground school during the SE phase.
It then became a block of GS, followed by a block of flying. At least with the exams being done on the computer, you don’t wait 2 weeks anymore for the results to be published.
As for the valued customer who doesn’t achieve first time passes, it can reflect their maturity.
It doesn't remotely represent year one at university, where socialising plays a significant part of the activities for those who can afford it. There are exceptions. Law & Medicine to name but two courses, where ‘head in the books’ is required from the start.
EASA studies is fully head on from day one of GS. 9-5 five days a week. 2-3 hours study each night, 5/6 days a week is required. A bit of OCD helps.
Do that and obtaining good results should be a stroll in the park. You simply keep nibbling away at it from day 1.
The analogy is the process of “OSMOSIS”. The material once described by an old hand (ex RAF nav) as HIGH volume, LOW grade material to learn. His other view was that if you were “thick” at the ground school, you would be “thick” at the flying. There is a strong correlation between brain power in the writtens & the flying. Not always.
After all, it is not Fast Jet training.
There are those who would say that age 21 should be the minimum age to commence professional training. A degree / life experience building maturity, is a critical ingredient of a *junior bird man*. The degree doesn’t have to be even remotely aviation oriented such as aeronautical engineering etc. Foreign language, History, English, science etc would be well chosen courses. A valuable meaningful degree and not one which might be regarded as “underwater basket weaving”.
There are always exceptions where a young person aged 18 have the necessary maturity. They are, however, as rare as rocking horse sh_t.
Note: in these days a political correctness the phrase *junior bird man* is a generic phrase reflecting which gender you orientate towards.
A phrase used by one Sandy Thomson last century who ran stand alone groundschool under CAP509. Pete Lyons are well. Booker May 1992. A really enjoyable month with such legends. I didn’t miss the flying one little bit. ATPL nav block ✔️DCO
Last edited by parkfell; 30th Sep 2019 at 19:53. Reason: Expanded last paragraph & syntax
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Ahhh Sandy Thomson, a true gentleman. He ran a lovely ground school at Coventry. (Sadly gone now).
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There is ATPL groundschool in Brussels ( the IR flying was done in Antwerp but that closed and students had to switch to Oxford). I supposed it depends on who is the overall approving authority for the integrated course. Could it be that there reverse was true and the CAA added Brussels and Amsterdam to the list of approved places for CAE ?
EASA was always very sniffy about training being done outside an EASA state. What my have been snuck through by OAA ( as was) in 2001 based on some grandfather rights from the early 90s would be very unlikely today.
i think L3 read the tea leaves correctly when they closed down in Phoenix and moved to Portugal. It all hinges on if the UK stays in EASA. The CAA is re-establishing certification capability, so suggests they can see the writing on the wall.
my guess is that there will be no news on "contracts" until after 31st October !
The he other major issue is exchange costs. L3 were doing a lot of VFR training in Bournemouth and have recently opened in Cranfield. The current rate of £ to $ just wiped out any cost advantage, and the other problem was that they just could not get hold of sufficient instructors as they all left to go to regional airlines in the US.
EASA was always very sniffy about training being done outside an EASA state. What my have been snuck through by OAA ( as was) in 2001 based on some grandfather rights from the early 90s would be very unlikely today.
i think L3 read the tea leaves correctly when they closed down in Phoenix and moved to Portugal. It all hinges on if the UK stays in EASA. The CAA is re-establishing certification capability, so suggests they can see the writing on the wall.
my guess is that there will be no news on "contracts" until after 31st October !
The he other major issue is exchange costs. L3 were doing a lot of VFR training in Bournemouth and have recently opened in Cranfield. The current rate of £ to $ just wiped out any cost advantage, and the other problem was that they just could not get hold of sufficient instructors as they all left to go to regional airlines in the US.