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EASA PPL USA recommended flight schools?

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EASA PPL USA recommended flight schools?

Old 9th Jul 2019, 16:21
  #1 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: London, United Kingdom
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EASA PPL USA recommended flight schools?

Hi all,

It has been a long time since I've been on here... yikes. Long story short, I'm 25, living in London and I've saved about 20k which I'm using to begin my journey to the cockpit... of an airliner.

This starts with a PPL and it looks like it's cheaper, quicker and nicer to do it in the USA, e.g. American Aviation Academy in San Diego (a city which I visited last August, and loved). To what extent is this true? It's not ideal for me to take 6 weeks of unpaid leave off work here in London but if I would prefer to do that if I can get my PPL quicker, for at least the same price (or cheaper) than the UK and in a nicer environment.

Has anyone completed their PPL in the US? If so, where and for how much inc. accom?

Thanks a lot in advance,

Pete
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Old 9th Jul 2019, 16:42
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Join Date: Aug 2003
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Read your previous post over the last 6 years on the other thread.

Obtain in your class one medical before signing up to any flying course.
Another option is doing your PPL near home this summer. Or choose a quiet airfield like Carlisle and go full time.
Then head in the books for distant learning for the EASA exams. Work & save. Hour building with meaningful flying IF/XCTY/Night.

But medical first.
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Old 9th Jul 2019, 17:40
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Originally Posted by uncle dickie View Post
Read your previous post over the last 6 years on the other thread.

Obtain in your class one medical before signing up to any flying course.
Another option is doing your PPL near home this summer. Or choose a quiet airfield like Carlisle and go full time.
Then head in the books for distant learning for the EASA exams. Work & save. Hour building with meaningful flying IF/XCTY/Night.

But medical first.
But for the PPL I only need a Class 2, and I want the PPL anyway, so can't I do a Class 1 after I have my PPL?

Also what's wrong with doing the PPL in an EASA approved school abroad, like flyaaa in San Diego?

Finally, distant learning means self-study in my own time, right? If so, why is this better? PPL packages do include ground school for the EASA exams...

EDIT: The initial Class 1 is near to 700 according to Google.. wasn't it much cheaper back in 2013?

Last edited by pjharb; 9th Jul 2019 at 18:05.
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Old 9th Jul 2019, 19:28
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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If you want to get a PPL so you can fly privately around the UK, you could go either way but to be honest you're better off training in the UK.

If however, you want to be a commercial pilot then yes, it will be much cheaper and quicker in the States. You need an ICAO PPL - and if you're training in the States you should definitely get an FAA private certificate. There's no point doing EASA in the US in that case - FAA is cheaper (way more schools), easier (only one exam) and comes with night privileges so you won't have to do a night rating. You can get an FAA IR practically for free (substitute it for hour building) and if you do it right, you're also exempted from the EASA IR course.
Google will show you countless schools, and if you take your 20k and borrow another 15k you've got enough to get an EASA CPL/MEIR
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Old 9th Jul 2019, 19:34
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Join Date: Aug 2003
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Originally Posted by pjharb View Post
But for the PPL I only need a Class 2, and I want the PPL anyway, so can't I do a Class 1 after I have my PPL?

Also what's wrong with doing the PPL in an EASA approved school abroad, like flyaaa in San Diego?

Finally, distant learning means self-study in my own time, right? If so, why is this better? PPL packages do include ground school for the EASA exams...

EDIT: The initial Class 1 is near to 700 according to Google.. wasn't it much cheaper back in 2013?
why pay twice for a medical?
distant learning for the professional exams or somewhere like Bristol GS full time?

entirely your choice, but if your are set on the CPL/IR route personally UK for weather mixture.
CA great for holidays, but you have a more serious matter to consider......
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Old 9th Jul 2019, 20:51
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Join Date: Feb 2016
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BE AWARE OF AAA in san diego, if you google their history and talk to former students on facebook or instagram they are not as what they make out on their website and their email repliesl, granted you may get a easa ppl but factor into consideration extra costs which you will incur ( which they do not tell ) and their safety records is questionable ( 4 deaths in 5 year) , i have been told an example of where many of their foreign students from the far east studying the FAA PPL of having 40 hours or more and not even gone solo, from their EASA side confirm that their is an easa instructor present and that you would be given priority in having lessons and being able to fly and not be standing around due to lack of planes or planes being in maintenance, if you go down the easa route i would factor 15,000 including accommodation and food and roughly 10-12 weeks to complete the course, another school i can recommend is clacton flying club, their prices are very reasonable Private pilot licence courses? Get your own private pilot licence / also their is Derek Davidson 3 weeks EASA PPL 3 Week EASA PPL - Derek Davidson Pilot Training

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Old 10th Jul 2019, 08:39
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Originally Posted by rudestuff View Post
If you want to get a PPL so you can fly privately around the UK, you could go either way but to be honest you're better off training in the UK.

If however, you want to be a commercial pilot then yes, it will be much cheaper and quicker in the States. You need an ICAO PPL - and if you're training in the States you should definitely get an FAA private certificate. There's no point doing EASA in the US in that case - FAA is cheaper (way more schools), easier (only one exam) and comes with night privileges so you won't have to do a night rating. You can get an FAA IR practically for free (substitute it for hour building) and if you do it right, you're also exempted from the EASA IR course.
Google will show you countless schools, and if you take your 20k and borrow another 15k you've got enough to get an EASA CPL/MEIR
How much time would this involve in the US do you think? Not sure how much unpaid leave I could get off work.. 6 weeks I think will be fine but several months might be a problem. The thought of reaching CPL/MEIR with 35k sounds like a dream.
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Old 10th Jul 2019, 08:41
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Originally Posted by r10bbr View Post
BE AWARE OF AAA in san diego, if you google their history and talk to former students on facebook or instagram they are not as what they make out on their website and their email repliesl, granted you may get a easa ppl but factor into consideration extra costs which you will incur ( which they do not tell ) and their safety records is questionable ( 4 deaths in 5 year) , i have been told an example of where many of their foreign students from the far east studying the FAA PPL of having 40 hours or more and not even gone solo, from their EASA side confirm that their is an easa instructor present and that you would be given priority in having lessons and being able to fly and not be standing around due to lack of planes or planes being in maintenance, if you go down the easa route i would factor 15,000 including accommodation and food and roughly 10-12 weeks to complete the course, another school i can recommend is clacton flying club, their prices are very reasonable Private pilot licence courses? Get your own private pilot licence / also their is Derek Davidson 3 weeks EASA PPL 3 Week EASA PPL - Derek Davidson Pilot Training
I read all the reviews about the school and also read about the recent accidents.. yikes. The thought of completing it in San Diego is so appealing since I adore the city but it is more convenient to do it here in the UK while staying at home. Those 2 recommendations seem like great options - I will check them out. Thanks!
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Old 10th Jul 2019, 15:06
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Originally Posted by pjharb View Post
But for the PPL I only need a Class 2, and I want the PPL anyway, so can't I do a Class 1 after I have my PPL?
... because if you have a medical condition that comes up in the Class 1, but not in the 2, then you save yourself a lot of grief.
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Old 11th Jul 2019, 12:16
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Originally Posted by cavok_flyer View Post
... because if you have a medical condition that comes up in the Class 1, but not in the 2, then you save yourself a lot of grief.
I'm going for the initial Class 1. There are a few things that I'm worried about:

1) I have intermittent exotropia (where one eye drifts off when I'm not concentrating, due to muscle imbalance behind the eyes). Had this since I was a very young child.
2) I had most of my Spleen removed back in 2007 when I was 13, so my blood isn't exactly normal. My platelet count as of my last test in 2012 was too high, and my IgG and IgM levels were off due to a toxoplasmosis infection.
3) My left ear drum is damaged after a random kid hit me on my ear in school for no reason.
4) I have had PVCs for the last 11 years, undiagnosed.
5) Myopia at -5.00 which is not far from the -6.00 limit.

Safe to say I need to do a Class 1. If I fail it, then I'll get a Class 2 and will at least know that I'm a non-starter. Doesn't mean I can't fly though.. just has to be less than 9 passenger seats :-).

Edit: Nope I need a Class 1 for a CPL and so I can only fly privately with a PPL with a Class 2.. yikes. Becoming a CFI is pretty much all I can do without a C1. Let's hope it goes well.. I'll update this thread afterwards. I'll probably do it sometime in August, because I need to have eye, hearing and blood tests at my opticians and GP so I can take all the results with me.

Last edited by pjharb; 11th Jul 2019 at 12:28.
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Old 11th Jul 2019, 20:42
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I too had an issue with my ears. Some problem with my left ear vs high frequencies. I'm still lucky to be on the safe side.Wish you the same. Good luck
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Old 15th Jul 2019, 10:57
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Originally Posted by pjharb View Post
How much time would this involve in the US do you think? Not sure how much unpaid leave I could get off work.. 6 weeks I think will be fine but several months might be a problem. The thought of reaching CPL/MEIR with 35k sounds like a dream.
It's not a quick process, first step is a medical, then a PPL, then everything pretty much stops while you do your exams, which could be 12 months if you're working as well.

There are places that advertise 3 and even 2 week intensive PPL courses, but I would allow 4 weeks. It's quite achievable if you read the books and do an online groundschool course before you go. Day 1 you get the medical and take the theory exam, which leaves 27 days to concentrate on flying 40 hours.

Get it done then go back to work and forget about flying. Study the ATPLs and when you've passed them, book another 4 weeks. Use that time to get your FAA IR, do your hour building IFR and get your AMEL rating (what they call MEP) If you run out of time you can always finish off the hour building in the UK.

You'll be exempted from the EASA MEIR course but leave enough room in the budget for training to proficiency, then finish off with a 15 hour SE CPL. You don't need an MEP rating. It's the cheapest way to do it, I really don't understand how people manage to spend so much.
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Old 15th Jul 2019, 13:46
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Join Date: Feb 2016
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hi rudestuff can you explain abit more about the process please
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Old 15th Jul 2019, 14:49
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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There's not really much more to it, is a big decision to make and I've only shared my opinion - the next guy may well give completely different advice. Mine is based on experience (holding both FAA and EASA licences) a knowledge of the regulations and a nose for sniffing out loopholes. I made a lot of mistakes and spent way more money than I needed to. Everyone is different and the best/easiest/cheapest route depends a lot on ability. You have 200 hours to fly but only 100 can be training since you need 100 PIC. If you use up 60 hours dual just getting your PPL, the FAA route probably isn't worth it because it'll take you over the 200, but if you can get close to minimums then it works. Training continuously is the best way to get it done in minimums as there's no time for skill fade.
The big points to remember are the CPL needs 200 hours, so always do the IR first, other wise you'll end up with 217 hours. Apart from your 100 pic, you should always have an instructor with you teaching you something - the difference between 40 hours solo and a 40 hour IR is just the cost of the instruction. It baffles me when people tell me they went to Florida, hour built up to 175 then did a CPL, then did an IR. For $2000 in instructor/fees they could have got an FAA IR. That alone will take the EASA MEIR minimums from 15plane/40sim down to 5plane/10sim, but if you get 50 hours IFR during your hour building and convert via CBIR the are no minimums - none. I'm not for one second saying that you won't need training, but the potential is there. Provided you use your hour building time productively - I'm talking about getting a flight tracking app and flying an ILS, and a procedural NDB with missed approaches every single flight, taking a CFII along every 5th flight as an 'observer' and generally make yourself the most proficient IFR pilot you can - then you should only need a few sorties for your IR and you can literally save thousands. Little things matter - whatever single and multi you fly in the States - make sure you use the same type in the UK. It takes skill, knowledge and hard work and doesn't suit everyone.
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Old 15th Jul 2019, 15:39
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Originally Posted by rudestuff View Post
There's not really much more to it, is a big decision to make and I've only shared my opinion - the next guy may well give completely different advice. Mine is based on experience (holding both FAA and EASA licences) a knowledge of the regulations and a nose for sniffing out loopholes. I made a lot of mistakes and spent way more money than I needed to. Everyone is different and the best/easiest/cheapest route depends a lot on ability. You have 200 hours to fly but only 100 can be training since you need 100 PIC. If you use up 60 hours dual just getting your PPL, the FAA route probably isn't worth it because it'll take you over the 200, but if you can get close to minimums then it works. Training continuously is the best way to get it done in minimums as there's no time for skill fade.
The big points to remember are the CPL needs 200 hours, so always do the IR first, other wise you'll end up with 217 hours. Apart from your 100 pic, you should always have an instructor with you teaching you something - the difference between 40 hours solo and a 40 hour IR is just the cost of the instruction. It baffles me when people tell me they went to Florida, hour built up to 175 then did a CPL, then did an IR. For $2000 in instructor/fees they could have got an FAA IR. That alone will take the EASA MEIR minimums from 15plane/40sim down to 5plane/10sim, but if you get 50 hours IFR during your hour building and convert via CBIR the are no minimums - none. I'm not for one second saying that you won't need training, but the potential is there. Provided you use your hour building time productively - I'm talking about getting a flight tracking app and flying an ILS, and a procedural NDB with missed approaches every single flight, taking a CFII along every 5th flight as an 'observer' and generally make yourself the most proficient IFR pilot you can - then you should only need a few sorties for your IR and you can literally save thousands. Little things matter - whatever single and multi you fly in the States - make sure you use the same type in the UK. It takes skill, knowledge and hard work and doesn't suit everyone.
Wow, information overload. It's like you're speaking in a different language. I don't understand a lot of what you said in your last post, e.g. what an hour-building IFR is. Sorry, I'm a newb when it comes to this, even though it has been my dream since age 3...

I think it's easier if I tell you what I think is my route from start to finish. If you could amend/correct this, bearing in mind that I'm working full time in the UK but can take unpaid time off, I would really appreciate it:

1) Initial Class 1 Medical in the UK - 700
2) PPL in the UK, intensive (4 weeks) or long term (6 months) - 11K.
3) Night Rating , 5 hours, 1K.
4) 100 more hours of random flying to take total to over 150, for CPL - 15K.
5) ATPL Ground School - 12 months distance learning with Bristol Ground School - 3K.
6) MEP - 4K. Not sure what this entails, how long it'll take, etc.
7) MEIR - 18K. Not sure what this entails, how long it'll take, etc.
8) ME CPL - 6K. Same as above. No idea.
9) MCC/JOC - 3K. Same as above. No idea.
10) Somehow get to 1500 hours, i.e. by becoming a CFI full time for a year?
11) Get frozen ATPL? Feels like I'm missing something...

Total cost: 61.7K over a period of 2-3 years? I'm 26 now, so i'll be First Officer ready at age 29? If so, that would be great.

Also, is there any hour building necessary between the CPL where I need 150, up to the point of the MCC/JOC? Not sure at which point I'd need to have 1500 hours.

Thanks a lot for any help!
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Old 16th Jul 2019, 01:55
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Originally Posted by pjharb View Post
Wow, information overload. It's like you're speaking in a different language. I don't understand a lot of what you said in your last post, e.g. what an hour-building IFR is. Sorry, I'm a newb when it comes to this, even though it has been my dream since age 3...

I think it's easier if I tell you what I think is my route from start to finish. If you could amend/correct this, bearing in mind that I'm working full time in the UK but can take unpaid time off, I would really appreciate it:

1) Initial Class 1 Medical in the UK - 700
2) PPL in the UK, intensive (4 weeks) or long term (6 months) - 11K.
3) Night Rating , 5 hours, 1K.
4) 100 more hours of random flying to take total to over 150, for CPL - 15K.
5) ATPL Ground School - 12 months distance learning with Bristol Ground School - 3K.
6) MEP - 4K. Not sure what this entails, how long it'll take, etc.
7) MEIR - 18K. Not sure what this entails, how long it'll take, etc.
8) ME CPL - 6K. Same as above. No idea.
9) MCC/JOC - 3K. Same as above. No idea.
10) Somehow get to 1500 hours, i.e. by becoming a CFI full time for a year?
11) Get frozen ATPL? Feels like I'm missing something...

Total cost: 61.7K over a period of 2-3 years? I'm 26 now, so i'll be First Officer ready at age 29? If so, that would be great.

Also, is there any hour building necessary between the CPL where I need 150, up to the point of the MCC/JOC? Not sure at which point I'd need to have 1500 hours.

Thanks a lot for any help!
I'll try to address your points in order - until you have an instrument qualification, all flying is VFR, meaning visual flight rules, you can't fly in clouds. If you are suitably qualified, you can fly IFR - instrument flight rules which means you can fly in the clouds. Hour building is generally done VFR, because normally you need 50 hours PIC XC VFR (pilot in command cross country under visual flight rules) as a prerequisite for getting the IR. You'll usually only have 2 or 3 hours during the PPL training. However in the States there are two types of flight school, part 141 and part 61 which are loosely similar to integrated Vs modular. Part 141 schools are exempt from the 50 hour xc pic requirement meaning you can do a PPL and immediately start the IR course. This is advantageous because any subsequent hour building can be done IFR and as long as you have 50 hours as PIC under IFR - you're exempted both the IR exams and the EASA IR flight training syllabus (theoretically you can just take the test and save your 18k - although the reality is you will need some training in UK airspace)

Your other points:

1. Correct. The medical should always be the first thing you do.
2. Even in the UK, you can still get a PPL for 8k but you will have to take 9(?) Exams, pay loads to the CAA and wait ages for a licence and you'll be at the mercy of the weather. You'll either be sat waiting for decent weather, or fighting for aircraft availability on decent days.
3. That's about right. But if your get an FAA PPL you won't need a night rating
4. 100 hours 'random' flying is exactly what I'm saying NOT to do. But if you want to do it that way for god's sake don't pay 15k. Even in the UK you can hour build for half that.
5. Bristol is great, but you're really only paying for a signature to say you've done a course. CATS is half the price, and you'll end up using Bristol's database anyway.
6. You don't need an MEP. The P stand for piston - airlines fly jets generally.
7. You definitely need one of these: you can pay 18k or follow my advice and spend 5k it's your choice. You get the same qualification.
8. You don't need an ME CPL. Do your CPL in a single it's cheaper.
9. Spend More money here at a reputable company. By the time you get this far you'll know, don't worry.
10. You don't need 1500 hours, that's only in America. In Europe you can get an airline job with 200 hours and an MCC/JOC.
11. If you've got a CPL, MEIR and MCC/JOC - that IS a frozen ATPL. You only 'unfreeze' once you've got an airline job (and 1500 hours, 500 multi crew, 100 hours night etc and a multi pilot aircraft type rating) that might take 2 years or 20 years - it's irrelevant at this point. Basically you need 200 hours to get the job, then you hour build on the job.
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Old 16th Jul 2019, 09:55
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Originally Posted by rudestuff View Post
I'll try to address your points in order - until you have an instrument qualification, all flying is VFR, meaning visual flight rules, you can't fly in clouds. If you are suitably qualified, you can fly IFR - instrument flight rules which means you can fly in the clouds. Hour building is generally done VFR, because normally you need 50 hours PIC XC VFR (pilot in command cross country under visual flight rules) as a prerequisite for getting the IR. You'll usually only have 2 or 3 hours during the PPL training. However in the States there are two types of flight school, part 141 and part 61 which are loosely similar to integrated Vs modular. Part 141 schools are exempt from the 50 hour xc pic requirement meaning you can do a PPL and immediately start the IR course. This is advantageous because any subsequent hour building can be done IFR and as long as you have 50 hours as PIC under IFR - you're exempted both the IR exams and the EASA IR flight training syllabus (theoretically you can just take the test and save your 18k - although the reality is you will need some training in UK airspace)

Your other points:

1. Correct. The medical should always be the first thing you do.
2. Even in the UK, you can still get a PPL for 8k but you will have to take 9(?) Exams, pay loads to the CAA and wait ages for a licence and you'll be at the mercy of the weather. You'll either be sat waiting for decent weather, or fighting for aircraft availability on decent days.
3. That's about right. But if your get an FAA PPL you won't need a night rating
4. 100 hours 'random' flying is exactly what I'm saying NOT to do. But if you want to do it that way for god's sake don't pay 15k. Even in the UK you can hour build for half that.
5. Bristol is great, but you're really only paying for a signature to say you've done a course. CATS is half the price, and you'll end up using Bristol's database anyway.
6. You don't need an MEP. The P stand for piston - airlines fly jets generally.
7. You definitely need one of these: you can pay 18k or follow my advice and spend 5k it's your choice. You get the same qualification.
8. You don't need an ME CPL. Do your CPL in a single it's cheaper.
9. Spend More money here at a reputable company. By the time you get this far you'll know, don't worry.
10. You don't need 1500 hours, that's only in America. In Europe you can get an airline job with 200 hours and an MCC/JOC.
11. If you've got a CPL, MEIR and MCC/JOC - that IS a frozen ATPL. You only 'unfreeze' once you've got an airline job (and 1500 hours, 500 multi crew, 100 hours night etc and a multi pilot aircraft type rating) that might take 2 years or 20 years - it's irrelevant at this point. Basically you need 200 hours to get the job, then you hour build on the job.
You don't know how much you've helped me. Thank you ever so much! For (4), how can I get from 50 to 150 hours without paying that much money? For (7) your idea of doing it under the FAA is great, but I'm working full time in the UK so I'm just not sure if this is realistic for me.. spending several months in the US with unpaid leave might not be possible... but if in the future I find I can do it, can I mix and match with an EASA PPL, UK medical, etc?

Edit: also it looks like for CATS you need to hold an ICAO PPL, which means an EASA PPL here in the UK won't work?
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Old 16th Jul 2019, 10:59
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
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if one follows the above step how much can one save towards their cpl/me ir? As at Bartolini the course is 18k
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Old 16th Jul 2019, 14:06
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Originally Posted by pjharb View Post
Edit: also it looks like for CATS you need to hold an ICAO PPL, which means an EASA PPL here in the UK won't work?
It will. The UK is an ICAO member state, along with every country in the world except Liechtenstein, Dominica and Tuvalu. Any time you see a reference to ICAO it's usually talking about a licence issued by any of the big ones - EASA, FAA, Transport Canada, CASA, NZCAA etc...
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Old 16th Jul 2019, 14:11
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Originally Posted by r10bbr View Post
if one follows the above step how much can one save towards their cpl/me ir? As at Bartolini the course is 18k
How good are you?
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