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Olympus Aviation Academy (Greece)

Old 1st Jan 2020, 23:14
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Greece
Posts: 3
Originally Posted by John John View Post
Dear Polirised89

First of all, congratulations on your success with the ATPL training and I wish for many more to come.

I haven't attended any other school, since I don't have the luxury to pay more than 50.000 euros (the price was another factor for choosing OAA) and my job doesn't allow me to fully leave everything behind. I have studied the ATPL theory but without enrolling in a school one cannot give exams at HCAA.

In how much time did you complete your course if I may ask? Did you attend any other flight school before that?

As far as your questions go now

1) While you correctly have stated that non EU-students have to pay 30% of tuition fee to the school for visa you strategically neglect to mention how the school ommits to reimburse them if they leave. Incantator didn't even enroll and they still kept his money. Two fellow students of mine left at the same time as me and the school still owes them 15.000 and 11.000 euros respectively. Maybe they were at fault for not being mentally or physically fit, maybe not, but these money are theirs and no contract of agreement will change that.

2) What I know I learned from within the school. During my short tenure as a student at OAA I managed (by luck you might say) to get in contact with some disgruntled ex students who prepaid significant amounts of money, their training was progressing extremely slowly, if at all, and eventually they left.
Now since I don't have their permission I cannot disclose their names. How convenient you maybe say but nevertheless I will respect their privacy.

Additionally the accident at Xanthi was widely known when it occured and eventually I came to find about the 2015 accident at AAIASB page. These are reported almost fatal incidents for anyone to find on Google. Now if they are outdated and not worthy of attention, since they are happening everywhere else as you say, is a matter of one's perspective.
I didn't and couldn't know about them when I enrolled and I admit I should have known sooner.

Of course I don't know the technicalities of accidents' investigation but the whole process strains financially even the best of companies. What I remember was that at these times I could not find myself paying the school a dime without knowing the actual risks. Even the former CEO Olympia Giannakidou had left the school at the start of 2019 for Skies Academy at Peraia, for being unpaid in months.And she was actually registered on the VAT number of OAA as a shareholder, co-owner etc. Management didn't inform me adequately about all these factors unlike you of course who had the pleasure. They just told me that accidents happen. But time has passed you say and I truly hope things have changed for the better.

3) 9 ATPL integrated graduates is a fine number but, again, not so grand in 7 years of operating. When did they first enroll?

4) All the time I was there I had never even seen any plane. Every week we were waiting to go to Alexandroupoli airport and every time it was postponed without even the slightest briefing. One Cessna was stuck in Slovenia for maintenance reasons then another was about to be purchased. I understand that now the school has two operating Cessnas and one Seneca for MCC they rent at Megara as Kaur mentioned above.That is progress I suppose. Still they are not enough for 60-70 students.
In conclusion I estimated at the time that the school couldn't provide me the training in quality and in time for the money I was going to pay for.
This is my opinion as you are entitled to yours.

I have nothing to gain. In practical terms I am wasting my time monumentally right now, writing here.
And if OAA or Horizon or whatever is of high quality, then negative information on PPRuNe won't change that. Students will flock there by themselves.

Please next time don't be so 'shocked', like Bimala above, and feel free to counter-argue with actual fruitful arguments and facts instead of generalizations. Accusing me of falsehoods and lies won't help the people you supposedly want to help here.

With regards and wishes for a happy new year
John John

Thanks for your wishes,

As I mentioned above you going in too much details with name's and amounts etc which again it's unnecessary. I don't know your situation but the way you present it it's like criminals running the academy and you was/are the victim. Again thankfully the school is operating in European country which have rules and regulations and no COMPANY/SCHOOL can do what you mentioning without getting caught. By your words the school is illegal but the same time is EASA/HCAA approved with ATO number, something doesn't add up.
I personally don't believe this is the case

I will try to answer all your questions regarding me and if you need more feel free to ask.

I have finished my course in 19 months, I have attended only one school I am on the same page as you I don't have that privilege to shop around.
You asking about my classmates, they enrolled same year but again everyone is going in different pace it is up to the individual the ground school is the same flights are the same then is the exams different story. Again I just mentioned ONLY about my classmates.
I don't get the number you keep saying in 7 years only 9 integrated students finished? Before you was saying only 1 now it's 9?

About the former CEO or Co-owner I don't really know the case and to be more precise I don't care, again that's me.

About the accident's go in the website of AAIASB and have a look for the so called the biggest aviation school of the Balkans had an incident where they forgot the landing gear on their landing, 2 POB student and instructor. This is just an example accident's happen even to the "best".

I hope I covered almost everything.

Ps. I don't have anything to gain from all of this circus which happening on here. And just a friendly advice/reminder GDPR is in place from 2018.
​​​​​
Peace ✈️
Polirised89 is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2020, 21:34
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Greece
Posts: 11
Hello again

The devil hides in the details as they say. For me providing true details is essential since it makes arguments more robust.

I didn't insinuate at all that OAA is runned by criminals since that would be laughable. EASA-HCAA approval is not a quarantee that a school operates without training, financial or other irregularities nor that we as students won't risk our money eventually. If you are Greek or have worked in Greece you would know that even HCAA as part of the public sector has many internal problems in terms of transparency and control.

Fortunately I didn't lose any serious amount of money, lucky me, but my friends did as I mentioned. I understand this doesn't concern you since you have graduated as you said but it is important to me in terms of justice, not victimhood.
When I am about to pay such an amount of money, I believe it's 53.900 euros now, I want to know everything about how the company I will be doing business with, is operating in all aspects. That is me of cource.

One graduate that I was informed of but never actually met was Isidoros Pantelis who is one of the ground instructors. Plus the 8 you mentioned with you are 9 graduates that I am aware of as of now. I understand that there would be more. Could you disclose how many graduates of ATPL integrated does the school have so far?

Since you mentioned the so called best school in Balkans I take that you mean Egnatia aviation at Kavala. I don't know much about them only that they are very expensive for my taste.

Also since you took the time to read reports at AAIASB page take a look at the Olympus report of the 2015 accident at Axios river. The owner and captain in charge claimed he faced engine failure but the investigation didn't show signs of stall in the debris which eventually got stolen from the sight.

The report closes with:
Probable causes
The failure to adhere to the regulations and procedures specified for Makedonia TMA VFR Routes and, more specifically, the safety altitudes specified for the said routes. The incorrect assessment of the risks of low flying which resulted in the aircraft striking the overhead power transmission lines.

You cannot equate all accidents by being caused of simple human neglect which is natural.
Forgetting the landing gear is a serious but quite a human mistake.
Low flying against the air laws, for showing off and crashing is another thing.

You can see the questions I made to Kaur above. If you'd like feel free to answer them because I think you have covered only two parameters.

While I am losing my time here I respect what all the above had to say and I don't think this thread is a circus. It can provide healthy dialogue and save some time for future students and aviators in their endeavors with any school.

ps. Now that the school has changed its name to Horizon doesn't it take some considerable time to be ATO approved again since it is a new company?
Could you or Kaur confirm upon that?
Also thanks for the GDPR reminder. That is kind of you.

With regards

Last edited by John John; 2nd Jan 2020 at 23:29.
John John is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2020, 23:39
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Greece
Posts: 3
John John

Buddy I will leave it here as it is because I can see clearly you took it personal.

Whatever I​​​​ said you came up with some information with too much details and asking me as student to answer things I don't know and I don't care to know I have more important things to do than to dig for stupid information, but again you are not from the inside and you just repeat the rumours from others.

You are going forward and backwards about same things and asking stuff that only the owner can answer.

So why you don't get in touch with the owner and find in a common language a solution about YOUR problem and ask all of this fancy questions, here is clear you haven't an issue with the academy but with the owner and continuously you blaming him/her for whatever happened to you.

About what happened for the rest of your classmates you just writing the story what you was told with some spicy salsa on top.

Again you are trapped with all this stories about former students/owners/accident's and so on. ​​​​​​​

As you mentioned you didn't lose money but you acting like you was robbed.

Mate get a life and move on just a friendly advice.

​​​​​Peace ✈️
Polirised89 is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2020, 13:39
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Greece
Posts: 11
Polirised89

I am not your buddy. If you cannot answer, don't answer at all. You are diminishing the issue by little personal attacks. Really?
What a dialectical genius you are. And if I made all I said up I could just say the same about you and your training. Which would be futile.

I am not here to discuss what should I do with the owner but just to inform others of my experience there which you constantly try to discredit.
If the owner wants to shed some light he is more than free to write on this thread.


Also a friendly reminder. Try a bit harder not to get a spoiled attitude like those so many in aviation you warned us about.
John John is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 20:50
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Thessaloniki
Posts: 6
There are folks sending me PM asking whether it would still be ok to get a EASA conversion with Olympus Aviation Academy. They are so cheap they think.. While I was there I met with 20s former OAA students who like me ended with nothing but around 10k to 13k lost tuition fees and several months of confrontations.

We all being forced to leave that school with partial training after various dramas, as serious as air accidents. Think about about it, 20s former students had lost at least 10k that's assuredly 200.000 gone! And what about other former OAA students I haven't heard about their struggles?

How about the instructors who had left cause they were not getting their due pay? Depending where on Earth you come from, some of you guys might call the gone students with empty pockets losers, while some others of you would just see this plunging well into criminality! I don't even know the state of OAA right now but if it happens you met its boss, Stavros Anastasiadis, get to the hell out there.

Whatever it's at OAA or any other flight schools he is trying to open up! He has hurt so many student pilots and even their families for so many years, with all possible manipulations, debts and dramas. There are many better flight schools in Greece!

I've been looking for flight school well before landing at OAA, it's hard to choose a flight schools many have their own issues. One school I visited before OAA, the students from there made me aware about all the issues they experienced. They were honest with me and made me aware about their school crippled with debts and they were 15 students trapped with only one airplane.

I was thankful to them, it takes courage to denounce abnormalities in aviation, and kept looking elsewhere. As I faced so many issues with OAA, now it's my turn to let potential new students aware about a terrible experience for me and other of my classmates.
Rosi is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 22:01
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Thessaloniki
Posts: 6
Now, I don't want the OAA misery to impact the reputation of other Greek flight schools. I would like to answer to those who are interested in doing foreign pilot license conversions and other flight training in Greece, there are flight schools I could recommend based on where former OAA students had been rescued. Off course, for those who could afford paying once again for their training, the cheap OAA thing ended costing more than honest options.
Since the first OAA accident in 2015, many of their former students has been rescued by Sky Aviation Academy. More recently by Ionian Aviation also saved the flight training of some other former students. After having lost 1 to 2 years with the Olympus drama series, they finally got there pilot licenses.. It is not an easy business to a flight school to rescue students with partial and disrupted trainings, who hadn't been flying for months, not to mention the time spent with paperwork to comply with the HCAA.

Those who really want to be trained in Northern Greece (which might be why you get interested about OAA), you have 2 school I can recommend after meeting with their students: Egnatia and Skies Aviation Academy. Egnatia is expensive and the enrollment waiting list might be long, they might be crowed of students, but they are well known across Europe. Skies Aviation Academy, based in Thessaloniki and flying in Alexandroupoli (and probably from a second airport by now) is a more affordable option and most of my friends get their pilot licenses with them. I can say they are not perfect, but they are serious, they get training done and respect their students. If you live in Thessaloniki and are interested about getting a PPL first, why not getting in touch with the Thessaloniki Aeroclub? I don't know anyone who had been train with them would be good to have a feedback. You can then do the CPL IR ME with any other flight schools then after.

For those who just want pilot conversions, especially all the foreigners who PM me, why would you go with a flight school from Northern Greece while you have to go to Athens to sit your 14 written hassle exams with the Greek CAA the HCAA? (I've met with foreign commercial pilots who had felt several times some of these haha!). Ionian Aviation has recently helped OAA students completing their training and getting there pilot licenses. They are based in Athens and fly mostly in Megara, I won't say they are perfect but they helped my friends getting though their flight trainings. Many Foreigner went to OAA to get their foreign license conversions, they had to travel a lot between Thessaloniki, where OAA is based, and Athens, where the HCAA conduct the exams, don't you think it's costly and tiring to travel many times for exams? In my knowledge Ionian Aviation might be the only flight schools based in Athens area that is flexible enough to accept short trainings. Unlike other schools in Megara where if you don't enroll to integrated ATPL or at least a complete CPL flight training, they'd barely talk to you (at least they make load and clear they don't want to train you, unlike OAA that collect your money first and leave you alone if they can't provide you with training).

Good luck
Rosi is offline  
Old 9th Mar 2020, 12:05
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 185
Ladies, Gents,
If you want to do your flight training in Megara, Greece. Go to Global aviation, and nowhere else !
I have recently worked shortly at Ionian Aviation, their neighbors, will not recommend them !
Fly safe.
gerpols is online now  
Old 9th Mar 2020, 14:45
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Thessaloniki
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by gerpols View Post
Ladies, Gents,
If you want to do your flight training in Megara, Greece. Go to Global aviation, and nowhere else !
I have recently worked shortly at Ionian Aviation, their neighbors, will not recommend them !
Fly safe.
Hello Gerpols, Global Aviation seems to be an interesting school for those doing CPL and integrated ATPL. When asked for shorter training the politely declined as their priority is (was?) to longer term training. Also, friend who lost his ATPL modular training with Olympus has tried to get at least a PPL before leaving from Greece. Yes at Olympus even PPL was not possible to get! After we finally convince this former student he is going nowhere with OAA, he contacted Global Aviation but they declined PPL training stating they don't offer this training which is curious to me as Global provide modular ATPL. At least they proposed him to get in touch with Mesogeion Aeroclubat Tatoi Airport instead.

Concerning Ionian, could you please elaborate your experience? Would be useful to many potential students. I said again, they are not perfect, but 2 of my friend former OAA scammed students get their training saved but Ionian. One completed his multi-engine with them and another get the ATPL. I suggested Ionian specially to all these guys asking me if they still can to do EASA ATPL conversion with Olympus despite the horrible experience I endured there.
Rosi is offline  
Old 9th Mar 2020, 17:16
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 185
Ladies, Gents,

Received a few private messages concerning my previous post.
All I would like to say is the following:
Before you choose which ATO you would like to do your training, and make any payments towards that ATO, do the following:

GO AND VISIT THE PLACE.............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Speak to the CEO, Accountable Manager, Head of Training, Chief Pilot, Flight Instructors, Ground Instructors, and above all: students !!
Check their location at the airport, check their maintenance facilities, check the housing facilities offered, check the maintenance situation of the aircraft, are the instructors professional flight instructors or part timers looking for some extra income ?
My basic understanding after 40 years in aviation is:
If he or she, looks like a pilot, is dressed like a pilot, talks like a pilot, acts like a pilot....he probably is a pilot !
Good luck !
Fly safe.
gerpols is online now  
Old 10th Mar 2020, 09:57
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Thessaloniki
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by gerpols View Post
Ladies, Gents,

Received a few private messages concerning my previous post.
All I would like to say is the following:
Before you choose which ATO you would like to do your training, and make any payments towards that ATO, do the following:

GO AND VISIT THE PLACE.............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Speak to the CEO, Accountable Manager, Head of Training, Chief Pilot, Flight Instructors, Ground Instructors, and above all: students !!
Check their location at the airport, check their maintenance facilities, check the housing facilities offered, check the maintenance situation of the aircraft, are the instructors professional flight instructors or part timers looking for some extra income ?
My basic understanding after 40 years in aviation is:
If he or she, looks like a pilot, is dressed like a pilot, talks like a pilot, acts like a pilot....he probably is a pilot !
Good luck !
Fly safe.
I can't agree more about going and visiting places, many places! You are right! This is what we have done my former classmates and I, we visited so many flight schools, the good ones have months of waiting list and/or are advertised as cheap, and many are hard to communicate with even after spending time visiting them. Stavros Anastasiadis looks like a pilot, is dressed like a pilot, talks like a pilot, acts like a pilot... he was a great military fighter pilot but aged pretty badly, many would tell you this. He is answering exactly what student expect to hear from a potential flight school. He seemed accommodating and experienced but as soon we started paying communication sharply changed and no longer respected us, he is a great comedian I recommend him trying soap opera melodrama auditions! Some former OAA's students even come with their parents from Greece and abroad, they placed their kids in delicate situation.

We were lied about the number of aircraft and aircraft types, even the location of the airport we were supposed to fly, the proximity with maintenance facilities, housing support.. By the way, several flight schools excuses to not present their fleet are their aircraft based away from their headquarter or/and the need of airport security pass to access the aircraft! We even met some OAA students on the premises of the school, they use a few of them to present well unfortunately. Some of these students have their family close to Anastasiadis, other have trapped too much cash in this school, it is there way to "save their money spent". In leaving they lost everything.
Rosi is offline  
Old 10th Mar 2020, 16:09
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 185
Ladies, Gents, Rosi,

Ionian Aviation lost their one and only multi engine airplane september 2019. It did not set the parking brake on the main platform, and taxied into one of Global airplanes.
Their Piper Seneca III is still parked on the main platform, without engines.
I am not going to elaborate on this forum about my experience as Chief Pilot with Ionian Aviation.
I personally think it is not professional to talk bad, about previous employers.
Fly safe
gerpols is online now  
Old 25th Mar 2020, 14:03
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Turkey
Posts: 1
i still have a case going to get my 21.000 back... I started begin 2015, all looked great but then the crashes happend, they lied and continued groundschool. What happend was this -> school was officialy closed but they didnt tell us. So all our money and efforts were for nothing. All the rent and costs were for nothing. After more than 15 months when we were applying force to continue flying etc it came out that all operations were ceased. Its one big scam. So I decided since I am allready there in greece to change school. The result was simple, I had to start completly over from zero... I am in heavy debt now and still cant get my money back, lost so many time also...

I heared they operate " somehow " but if you still decide to go, tell them that you want to pay by bank transfer and not by hand. He will ask to pay by hand and give you extra disscount but my friends who payed by hand could not start a legal case against him.

take care and happy flying
Meto2k is offline  
Old 10th May 2020, 01:47
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Thessaloniki
Posts: 6
Hi Meto2k, sorry to learn your story. Unfortunately, this is still ongoing and everything you said has happened to so many after you. Why would you recommend to pay him by bank transfer instead of going to the school you went with after? OAA is a scam period.
Rosi is offline  

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