B757/767 EASA type rating training.

[Jetjockey145]

Hello.
I need to renew a B757/767 rating that I completed initially with BA back in 1996. I haven't flown the type since that date and moved onto the B737-300/800 instead. I now have some 9,500 hrs of which 6,500 were gained on Jet aircraft. Some 5,500 hrs were gained on the B737 flying all over Europe. I have a full EASA ATPL, a class one medical, and a UK passport.

I have now been offered a job flying long haul on the B767 on the express understanding that I renew my 757/767 rating!
I am happy to do this to see out the remainder of my flying career (5yrs). Unfortunately, this is where the problem starts.

I have now contacted two ATO's within the UK to no avail. No prices have been forthcoming, nor have any estimates on how much training I require to renew / reissue the rating. I cannot even find out whether I require a base check, or whether due to experience, I can complete a ZFT course.

Can somebody please suggest a reliable EASA approved training organisation capable of supplying the required training, either within Europe or even in the USA. If anybody has been in a similar predicament, and has information on a solution then I would be pleased to hear from you.

Thanks.

[P40Warhawk]

Try Baltic Aviation Academy in Lithuania.

[Jetjockey145]

Thank you.

I'm looking at them at the moment. I've had an email from them and they are telephoning me tomorrow.

Has anybody used their services? Can anybody else recommend them?

[Jay_solo]

Hi Try the following:

Global Training Aviation in Madrid;

B757/767 Type Rating Course - GLOBAL TRAINING & AVIATION - Leading provider for aviation since 2002

Air Baltic training;

Type Rating Course: Boeing 757 : Flight Crew Training : Training services :

its getting harder to find TRTO's for 757/767, but there are a few.

[Jetjockey145]

Hello again.

I've been getting nowhere fast with these ATO's. They either don't bother replying or cannot run the course for 1 person.

Can anybody recommend any other Training organisations? I've just written to Sim.aero, CTC, and Baltic Flight Training.
I am amazed that these people can't be bothered to supply training with the large sums of money involved.

Any other suggestions? Thanks.

[latecoere240]

You can try SIM AERO in Paris. They are doing TR and renewal on 757/767:
B757/767 Type Rating Course

[Jay_solo]

hmmm. I've tried contacting SIM Aero in the past via email and they never responded. I notice their webpage has 2013 as the date as well.

Air Baltic also don't respond regarding the 757/767 course. But it might be worth trying to contacting them via telephone or their Facebook page. Good luck.

[ZFT]

Originally Posted by Jetjockey145

Hello again.

I've been getting nowhere fast with these ATO's. They either don't bother replying or cannot run the course for 1 person.

Can anybody recommend any other Training organisations? I've just written to Sim.aero, CTC, and Baltic Flight Training.
I am amazed that these people can't be bothered to supply training with the large sums of money involved.

Any other suggestions? Thanks.

How can you perform a TR for 1 person?

[Fuel Crossfeed]

Try aircrewdirect.com in Manchester UK.

I spoke to them 2 years ago about renewing my 757 rating which had expired in 2011, they were helpful, however I never renewed it in the end.

[PA28161]

Surely the airline that offered you the job would arrange and pay for your TR, I'm not sure I understand where your problem is, for example if you got a job with Ryanair or EazyJet (OK not on a 757/767) but say a 737 or A320 they would surely, as part of the package, pay for your TR or renewal

[Jetjockey145]

Hello all and thanks for the help.

Problem? My problem is that the majority of these type rating organisations can't even be bothered to reply to my emails, despite openly advertising the courses on their websites! It's rude and totally unprofessional. Air Baltic and Sim.Aero are two of the main offenders and have not bothered to reply despite me sending numerous mails.
Funny enough CTC are another example. Baltic Aviation Academy on the other hand have answered every one of my emails.

I have offered to supply a sim partner for those ATO's that did reply but no go. All these ATO's say they require two people to run a COMPLETE course or I have to pay double. What I find difficult to believe is that these ATO's don't have ANYBODY else awaiting a course.

Regards an employer paying for a type rating for me........ really? I've had a few funded for me in my time but it's not a given. In my case I've been offered a job if I renew my expired 75/76 rating. I retired early two years ago after some 20yrs in the flying game (mostly 737-300/800). Frankly I'm bored to tears. I want to return to work and see out the next 5 years on mid to long haul routes as I've done my share of airport hopping in 737's. At my age I'm lucky that the company concerned are even entertaining a position for me. I'm happy to INVEST the cost of a type rating for five years work. Please let's not start a discussion on the rights and wrongs of funding a type rating, that's not the point of this thread. The industry has treated me well over the years and I can afford to fund a rating, I'm just not paying double!

Unfortunately I'm up against it. I have a start date within 6 weeks but cannot get a type rating renewal in the time allocated, and believe me I'm trying! As I've already held the type on my licence I am exempt the requirement to complete a base check or ZFTT module. Hmmmmm. Funny old game!

If anybody out there knows anybody else requiring a rating then please call or text me on [phone]

[Kelly Hopper]

I had a similar situation a few years ago trying to renew a rating about to "expire." Could I get these ATO's moving? No way!
Since under EASA, the whole training decisions have been given to ATO's it has become a disaster for the customer. There is now a clash of interests where they just want to charge the maximum they can so any rating more than 3 years out is, by them, considered dead and a full initial required and charged for! This despite confirmation by the CAA that it is a recommendation not a requirement.
Expecting you to pay double because THEY cannot provide a sim partner is just another scam. I had ATO employees sitting in the sim at times before EASA. Not now.
It's a very frustrating position to be in and I lost. I wish you better success.

PS. You could always try calling operators and try to "piggyback" one of their courses?

[latecoere240]

Ratings renewal - Qualiflight
Aviation Personnel Training
IFA ? Instituto de Formação Aeronautica » Our Contacts

you Should contact them by phone and made an inquiry in order to speed up the process..

https://pilot.cae.com/TrainingLocations.aspx

[Jetjockey145]

Hello again.

I take your point entirely regards the ATO's and the CAA. It is quite clear that the 3 yr rule is a recommendation and nothing more. BTW I consider myself lucky to have escaped the base check or ZFTT requirement.

However, moving on, CAE want double the fee to put me through the course and are asking £37,000!
Needless to say, that's not going to happen. I find this all exasperating. The part that really frustrates is that I could no doubt complete a course in the USA very quickly and for a lot less money, but it's not allowed of course.

So, whilst I wait for news from an ATO I will have to contact somebody like DHL to see if I can piggyback a course.
It's not looking very hopeful. What a pantomime.

Update:- I have emailed all the ATO's in the last but one post and have had only two replies. Qualiflight are trying to find me a course partner but CTC say that as of two weeks ago they are no longer running 757/767 courses.
Happy days!

[button push ignored]

I assume BA is British Airways.
But 'express'?
Doesn't 'express' have their own 757/767 simulator?
Why wouldn't they just bung you in the box at 3am, and have you humiliate yourself?
I once flew 23 hours in one year, and couldn't remember my own name.
Don't know I'd want to work for somebody so unreasonable as 'express'.

[Jetjockey145]

Errrm, sorry, I don't follow any of that.

Who are "express"?

The airline offering me the job don't have their own simulator, they use external agencies to train and test their pilots. Why would they pay for my type rating renewal when they can get somebody else already current?
I've been offered the position as a favour to an existing employee. This is strictly on the understanding that it doesn't cost the airline a penny more than taking on another pilot with a current rating.
I wouldn't call that unreasonable, sounds like good business sense to me. This is totally different to those airlines accepting keen young "pay to fly" cadets that then fly the line for six months for nothing.
I could simply refuse to pay to renew my rating....... no problem......... the airline would then employ another pilot who doesn't need a rating renewal. The airline saves itself €20,000+ and I'm out of a job!
Nobody said life was easy!

Regards suffering humiliation in the sim at 3am? I've attended many a sim session in the early hours of the morning and haven't humiliated myself yet?

[button push ignored]

After the events of September 2001 we had a large fleet of steam gauge aircraft that were suddenly retired. This left hundreds of crew members on full paid leave for between 18 and 24 months. The majority of them were the more seasoned people who had spent their entire career on three man crew planes.
When they were recalled for retraining on a more modern plane, many had huge problems. Some did not make it, and the captains were offered first officer positions. First officers that didn't make it went into early retirement. Many people just said, 'stop the sim', and walked away.
Those who had the most trouble were the over 60 group. Not flying for two years at age 55 onward for me will be the kiss of death. For unless I fly regularly, my skill set goes the hell in a hand basket quite quickly. I can tell the difference in my abilities after taking a two week vacation, let alone a two year break. As I said earlier, I spent one year being lazy and only flew 23 hours. I found my performance in the sim to be unacceptable. So did the check airman, as I was invited back after six months for a refresher. I now live on 'easy street' flying 25 hours a month, rather than 'lazy street' where you do nothing.

Retirement is overrated. Our union does not publish life expectancy after retirement. But the competition airline does. They state than the average pilot who goes to age 65 receives just 18 pension payment before dying. Our union newspaper is full of 'fallen eagles' every month. I'm fed up of hearing the phrase 'blue skies and tail winds'. It's called premature death, caused by not reinventing yourself after retirement. I believe you can not just go home and potter in the garden and expect to last a long time. Once you start playing with the daises, you'll soon be pushing up the daises.

I have two options upon retirement. One friend has his own Falcon 900 as his personal pleasure toy. I'm welcome to be his co-pilot, but can't take the wife, as he brings his girlfriends along. That's fine by me, but won't work for the wife. Option two is have a motor home warmed up in the drive way ready to explore the world.

The 'express' comment came from the word written in different type. I thought it was a subliminal message to the airlines name. They obviously aren't very well funded if they don't have their own sim and may not last you five years. There was that UK Silver Thingy B-767 out of Luton that didn't last long. I don't remember the name of the company, but the Avro Vulcan pilot was forced into early retirement when his 767 operator went belly up. Also Goldstar that merged with Fresh in season 2.

I'm not sure I'd spend 20,000 on a non-sched job, after coming from a national carrier.

Why not check into a Gulfsteam job.
I would have thought that a retired British Airways Captain would put you at the top of the list.

[memories of px]

it was part of a statement, that included the words "express understanding" not an airline, nor were Fresh and Goldstar they were FICTITIOUS in TV drama called Mile High, and that silver thingy outfit was Silverjet.
JJ145,
have you tried IAGO FLIGHT TRAINING, or perhaps BOEING FLIGHT TRAINING at gatwick, THALES also have sims, one of these might be able to help.

[Jetjockey145]

Hello again all.

Yes, all interesting stuff, and valid points regards spending £20K on a rating, and spending ones last years flying.
I seem to remember reading something somewhere about pilot mortality rates after retirement, and it wasn't too clever. Then again, my dad retired from a job at the local steelworks at 65 and managed to draw only half a dozen pension payments before dropping dead (literally) with a heart attack. As I said earlier, it's a funny old game!

I spoke to an Australian mate recently who flies for Virgin blue. He's just turned 47 yrs old and said he would pack in the flying tomorrow if he could afford it, he's had a belly full.

Well, it's too late now to get a type rating done before I'm supposed to start the new job and I've told my mate as much. He's going to ask the CP or DFO if the airline will pay for the rating and put me on a course. I'm not holding my breath and will keep you updated. It won't be the end of the world if it doesn't pan out, as I was an electronics engineer in another life and make quite reasonable money in retirement. I just fancied a few more years before hanging up the headsets. I'll see what happens over the next week to ten days. It'll either happen or it won't.

Btw, how does one land a job flying a Gulfstream at my age and with no rating, I thought that market was all sown up?

Regards.

[button push ignored]

A long time ago I saw a Grumman Goose in a bay in St Johns in the US Virgin Islands.
I went up to talk to the pilot.
He was in his late 60s, and was a former Bonanza Airlines DC-3 'gas-lamp express', Hohawk Airlines Nord 262, Allegheny Airlines FH-227, US Air DC-9 pilot who had seen it all, in over 50 years of flying.
I thought his idea of flying a seaplane around the Caribbean to be a romantic notion and prefect end to a career.
He said it was, for the first six months.
Then it turned into just another ******* job.