15000 will get you a Private + living expenses.
Thats it.
You’re looking at $65k-$75k in training cost alone.
$85k-$90k after living expenses and tickets and such.
Do Not and I repeat DO NOT put this burden on your family.
Its your dream and not theirs.
It’s not fair to draw them into something that they have no clue about.
In any case there is no such thing as a work permit for a pilot.
You have two major problems, no work permit and no money.
That’s not magically going to fix itself.

Interesting, that's good news, thanks, though I guess it might not help the OP.

Learning to fly in the US is a great idea, and you can get all the training done for less than £30k. The problem is you cannot just emigrate to the US. It is effectively impossible for a UK citizen. You will basically need to get married to a US citizen to stand a chance.

Greetings! I'm an aspiring wannabe pilot from Morocco! I posses a vehement ardour for flight, and It hurts me to think I have a very slim chance of becoming one. I don't have an EU citizenship; and I was looking through the low hour FO job requirements for multiple airlines, they all request the unrestricted right to live and work in the EU... For reference, I still haven't started my training; and I'm willing to get a frozen ATPL when the skies are friendlier. I heard Wizz Air used to employ international low hour pilots, but looking in their website; it seems they changed it, Any ideas or workarounds for my drawback? maybe getting a work visa or something alike? Please let me know, thanks in advance.

No EU citizenship no party.

That's pretty depressing, might as well be a simulator pilot the rest of my life . Do all low hour opportunities require an EU citizenship? If so it's pretty much impossible for me to become a pilot even American airlines require citizenships... Maybe middle eastern airlines? But they need a high amount of experience no? I'm in an endless maze...

Why not Moroccan airlines?

Fellow wannabe, 0.5 hrs on a c152, residing in ME in an unpopular local state of which its legitimacy is doubted upon by many (I doubt it myself)
Standing in the same square as yourself, my idea is to start the PPL in EU zone, and after getting my bearings aligned with what country in the EU is most inviting (currently EE region looks inviting, but it has its downsides) I would work on a CPL and start working on getting a work permit. Once you have a work permit and get an actual job (don't mind being an expensive Air Uber), work your hours, and at the same time starting checking boxes on your "citizenship to do list" for that country.
Most countries, from what little research I did, require you to live in that country for a minimum time, even with a tempo access as a student or Gaestarbeiter, then there's the language barrier, which is almost always required for citizenship (but afaik not for residence permit)

there's just one Moroccan airline sadly, and I was willing to path towards its cadet program although it's somewhat irrational (one of its requirements is to undergo a 2 year preparatory class with sophisticated mathematics and physics that'll serve you no value as a commercial pilot, they're pretty hard to get into as well; also there's huge bias in the selection process and it's mainly not out of merit) That aside, due to the pandemic; they sacked half their fleet and illegally fired half the pilot, and pretty much abandoned the cadet pilots. It's a pretty dire situation. The cadet program doesn't exist anymore and to join the airline you need to be a CAE Oxford Aviation Academy graduate and have a lot of experience hence it's a traditional airline. Therefore Moroccan airlines are sadly not an option in the near future by the looks of things.

That's a nice plan Juppie! It will take time and some hard work but it'll be worth it at time's end. Thanks for the suggestions )

Its nice to have a plan but it’s not a very realistic plan.
A lot of large European National carriers hire predominantly from their own flight academies and if not from a selected few schools.
Which means you need to have done your training at a specific school. For instance Lufthansa Flight Academy or the KLM Flight academy for their respective airlines.
You’ll need to be fluent in the language and they will requires citizenship or EU Citizenship.
Which means that’s a 5-7 year delay before you can even apply at the school.
So that’s pretty much impossible.
I would suggest you look at Poland, Greece and Jordan for your flight training.
Then look for jobs in Africa, Middle East and Asia.
There will always be jobs for people willing to sacrifice and move to wherever that job might be.
I have known a handful of people that have flown tourists in Africa before moving on to airline jobs, also know people that have flown in Indonesia and PapuaNG.


https://royalflight.com/

passed my medicals yesterday , gonna submit my application to start my integrated course with FTA Global in September

Hi all,

i hope this is the right thread to post.
I'd appreciate some advice on my personal plan: i'm 38 and want to start flying from scratch. I know this isn't the most ideal of times for that, so i'm tempering my expectations, but i've postponed getting my licences for long enough and i think the post-pandemic change is the good time for me to finally get into it.
My dream end goal, some years down the road, would be a chill bush pilot gig in either US/CA or OZ/NZ. Ideally in something with floats or skis. I flew with Kenn Borek as a passenger in the past and those guys are pretty much living my dream life.

I'm French, got an M.Eng and work in mechanical engineering, my plan is to keep working in the same field and use the money to get my PPL/IR/etc., then the hours, then the CPL on the side until i have credible enough experience to maybe start looking for a pilot job.
So my only 2 questions are:
- Does this sound like a resonable/realistic plan?
- If yes, should i move out of the EU before or after getting my first licences/ratings?

Thanks!

Bleusaille - ahh. Most Bush flying gigs in Australia really don't pay well and is hard work. However, there's opportunities for float flying. Biggest obstable re Oz and NZ is the right to work etc. Relatively easy to convert a licence. Now, I think the Maldives use Float Twin Otters and Canada have a lot of aircraft on floats and skis. I don't know anything about operating in Canada.
I have a friend who's working in the Reunion Islands in the Indian Ocean. He's working for Air Austral and now that looks like a really chilled gig. He loves it and it looks like paradise

Anyone know how the market is looking for jobs in the UK or EU now and in the next 2 years? I am about to start training but can't decide what license to go for. I am a UK citizen with only a British passport but would love to eventually settle down in Europe. What sort of airlines would be an option for me?
I heard BA only take experiences FOs so with a UK license I am limited to the likes of easyJet, Jet2, TUI for low cost short haul. With an EASA license there is more options but then there is the visa and language requirements. Anyone know of any UK pilots with EASA licenses flying with EU airlines (Ryanair? Not sure if there are others) from UK bases?

Get both licences, who knows what will be in two years. For now some/most UK operators are still asking for EASA licences. End of 2022 should be interesting.

Does anyone know about EMB 120 SIC training or about EMB 120 aircraft as a whole ? Will it be helpful for my my career if i build my hours in a turboprop as a SIC?

Hey all, am new to this network and I'm probably in the wrong place but ill go ahead because I'm not sure where else I'd ask.
Anyway, here goes:

For pretty much the 19.5 years I've been alive, flight's been a constant part of life. Dad's a captain for Qantas, mum's dad was too, and so of course I quickly picked up a natural interest in flight, planes, etc. As a result, I've always wanted to do something to with planes after I finished school. Of course when I was younger, what exactly that was, was pretty opaque and vague. I just knew i was really into aviation. In the background I knew that I wanted to be a pilot but I guess thats just been such a constant of life that I never noted it. I really mean that. I have never not wanted to first and foremost fly for a job. Maybe as a teen I discounted it as kinda childish, but looking back now I imagine I only did so because I have wanted to since I was a little kid. That interest has remained as strong as ever but from about 16 onwards I started really looking at the engineering side of things. I'm not exactly sure why... I've been lucky enough to not have had to work particularly hard to do well academically and maybe as soon as you see kids doing well in maths and physics they instantly fit the academic phenotype of an engineer? Again, I'm not entirely sure. Anyway, I went along with that current, assuming that engineering was some sort of predetermined path for me to walk. I looked around at certain unis and found that there was an 'aerospace' option, looked up what it entailed and shrugged and assumed that it would probably be most relevant to my interests (which to be fair was correct). decided to go along with the flow for that.

Today, I'm currently at uni doing an aerospace engineering degree. It's a pretty well-renowned uni (although I have heard that other places with lower entry requirements offer a similar course of similar or even marginally better standards, depending on how one works) but over most of the course I've found myself increasingly dreading even the thought of uni. Sure, covid has made everything even more turgid than usual, but even when imagining being back on campus I can't really see myself enjoying or even just not somewhat dreading it. In all honesty, it's shown me that engineering is a lot less design and practical creation, and a lot more analysis, maintenance, and office work. I'm doing well in terms of marks but I really can't fathom doing an extension of this degree as a job. Maybe I should've seen this coming, but going into it I guess I was a lot more idealistic and excited and all.

Anyway, after thinking about finding a route out of this degree (and indeed whether I wanted out), the only other option that I find myself really and truly interested and invested in, with some potential of financial return is actually piloting (writing doesn't pay the bills ). Thanks to dad, grandpa and also in my younger years a really old copy of FS2002 (and grandpa's experience) I have what I'd imagine to be a decent knowledge of the area for a person not involved in aviation as a job (although I know it would be exceedingly basic compared to anyone having completed flight school). I know how to use a 738 FMC, how to set and use an autopilot, I know most of the common instruments and controls in a modern glass cockpit and what they're used for, etc... You get the idea. Disjointed bits of info any armchair aviation fanatic might know, along with basic flight mechanisms and physics and such. It's what you'd expect from a kid who's had 19 years with the same favourite interest, and a huge repository of info in my dad and grandpa. Again, exceedingly minuscule to the knowledge of actual pilots, but its something.

Anyway, I came to ask a couple questions.

How, in Melbourne, would you get the sort of accreditation and licensing that would possibly give one a tilt at applying for an airline like qantas? I'm aware it's a long process but any info on the journey to get there, from scratch (nada flight experience) would be unbelievably helpful. What is flight school like, any recommendations, and is it worth giving up an aerospace eng degree for (given what I've said above)? Has covid killed any chances of me finding a job before I even began? Given increasing automation will there even be any jobs left? How hard/rare is it, once I do have all relevant prerequisite criteria checked, to get job as any sort of pilot at qantas? Of course it's not qantas or nothing, but it would be my first preference (at least to end up at), especially given the familial connection.

Also, if anyone here is an aerospace engineer (long shot), what has your experience of the job and/or education been?

Anyway, I've said my piece. Many thanks to any and all who have any answers, and sorry if this clogs up the forum.
Cheers!

Firstly, how far into your degree are you? Many Aerospace engineering grads go into car design or anything that has an aerodynamic aspect to it. Australia really isn't at the forefront of aeroplane design unfortunately. One of my colleagues is a former aero engineer, he used to sign off B747s and the like. He prefers flying and has just made captain, but also uses his engineering skills as a reg & tech guru writing procedures for special airports etc. Another string to his bow.

What do QANTAS want? CASA ATPL, Command IR, unrestricted passport, Class 1 medical, appropriate experience. You gain the experience through instructing (if you don't want to leave Melbourne) and moving through the ranks that way, ideally Grade 1 flying instructor with multi engine and IFR teaching credits. If that doesn't appeal, then you pack your car and head "up North" to places that hire low time pilots. (That's what you'll be once you've finished training. You should have at bare minimum, a CPL with Night VFR. For the bigger aircraft, you'll need the ATPL subjects and an instrument rating). The bare minimum will qualify you to fly day VFR charter in probably a C206. Then it's the hour build/gain experience -> move to twins -> turbine etc. However, you'll hit the numbers when the QF hiring cycle begins.

Right now, QF and most airlines in Australia won't need new pilots for a while. They might in about 5 years time - just a guess.

heya redsnail, cheers for the response.
Yeah, I was very much aware of the relative lack of jobs in Aus for aviation-adjacent aero eng, and honestly wouldn't have had an awful problem with leaving. Of course, this was before covid... Currently looking at second year. I think the past year or so has probably wizened me up to the fact that I'm not super likely to get a job designing anything, and I've realised that instead I really wouldn't mind doing the actual flying itself though. Although I very much appreciate in the coming years its all about a diverse skillset and all those buzzwords. They're buzzwords for a reason!

As for qantas: I appreciate they (like most airlines) require a fair amount of experience. I know for this kind of thing dad did a lot of flying around Exmouth as a low-time pilot, and i think he quite enjoyed that. I wouldn't mind either staying in Melbourne or leaving honestly, I'm very open to chasing it. If its not a hassle to ask, what would be the pros and cons of each decision?

5 years until I have a chance doesn't sound awful to be honest, thats definitely something I can stomach. I understand that currently its about the recency of a lot of pilots after covid, with operations opening back up, and maybe not so much on people fresh into the system.
Anyway, thanks! Already things have been cleared up a lot.