My dream - advice please (collective thread)
Its nice to have a plan but it’s not a very realistic plan.
A lot of large European National carriers hire predominantly from their own flight academies and if not from a selected few schools.
Which means you need to have done your training at a specific school. For instance Lufthansa Flight Academy or the KLM Flight academy for their respective airlines.
You’ll need to be fluent in the language and they will requires citizenship or EU Citizenship.
Which means that’s a 5-7 year delay before you can even apply at the school.
So that’s pretty much impossible.
I would suggest you look at Poland, Greece and Jordan for your flight training.
Then look for jobs in Africa, Middle East and Asia.
There will always be jobs for people willing to sacrifice and move to wherever that job might be.
I have known a handful of people that have flown tourists in Africa before moving on to airline jobs, also know people that have flown in Indonesia and PapuaNG.
https://royalflight.com/
A lot of large European National carriers hire predominantly from their own flight academies and if not from a selected few schools.
Which means you need to have done your training at a specific school. For instance Lufthansa Flight Academy or the KLM Flight academy for their respective airlines.
You’ll need to be fluent in the language and they will requires citizenship or EU Citizenship.
Which means that’s a 5-7 year delay before you can even apply at the school.
So that’s pretty much impossible.
I would suggest you look at Poland, Greece and Jordan for your flight training.
Then look for jobs in Africa, Middle East and Asia.
There will always be jobs for people willing to sacrifice and move to wherever that job might be.
I have known a handful of people that have flown tourists in Africa before moving on to airline jobs, also know people that have flown in Indonesia and PapuaNG.
https://royalflight.com/
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Hi all,
i hope this is the right thread to post.
I'd appreciate some advice on my personal plan: i'm 38 and want to start flying from scratch. I know this isn't the most ideal of times for that, so i'm tempering my expectations, but i've postponed getting my licences for long enough and i think the post-pandemic change is the good time for me to finally get into it.
My dream end goal, some years down the road, would be a chill bush pilot gig in either US/CA or OZ/NZ. Ideally in something with floats or skis. I flew with Kenn Borek as a passenger in the past and those guys are pretty much living my dream life.
I'm French, got an M.Eng and work in mechanical engineering, my plan is to keep working in the same field and use the money to get my PPL/IR/etc., then the hours, then the CPL on the side until i have credible enough experience to maybe start looking for a pilot job.
So my only 2 questions are:
- Does this sound like a resonable/realistic plan?
- If yes, should i move out of the EU before or after getting my first licences/ratings?
Thanks!
i hope this is the right thread to post.
I'd appreciate some advice on my personal plan: i'm 38 and want to start flying from scratch. I know this isn't the most ideal of times for that, so i'm tempering my expectations, but i've postponed getting my licences for long enough and i think the post-pandemic change is the good time for me to finally get into it.
My dream end goal, some years down the road, would be a chill bush pilot gig in either US/CA or OZ/NZ. Ideally in something with floats or skis. I flew with Kenn Borek as a passenger in the past and those guys are pretty much living my dream life.
I'm French, got an M.Eng and work in mechanical engineering, my plan is to keep working in the same field and use the money to get my PPL/IR/etc., then the hours, then the CPL on the side until i have credible enough experience to maybe start looking for a pilot job.
So my only 2 questions are:
- Does this sound like a resonable/realistic plan?
- If yes, should i move out of the EU before or after getting my first licences/ratings?
Thanks!
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Bleusaille - ahh. Most Bush flying gigs in Australia really don't pay well and is hard work. However, there's opportunities for float flying. Biggest obstable re Oz and NZ is the right to work etc. Relatively easy to convert a licence. Now, I think the Maldives use Float Twin Otters and Canada have a lot of aircraft on floats and skis. I don't know anything about operating in Canada.
I have a friend who's working in the Reunion Islands in the Indian Ocean. He's working for Air Austral and now that looks like a really chilled gig. He loves it and it looks like paradise
I have a friend who's working in the Reunion Islands in the Indian Ocean. He's working for Air Austral and now that looks like a really chilled gig. He loves it and it looks like paradise
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Job Opportunities
Anyone know how the market is looking for jobs in the UK or EU now and in the next 2 years? I am about to start training but can't decide what license to go for. I am a UK citizen with only a British passport but would love to eventually settle down in Europe. What sort of airlines would be an option for me?
I heard BA only take experiences FOs so with a UK license I am limited to the likes of easyJet, Jet2, TUI for low cost short haul. With an EASA license there is more options but then there is the visa and language requirements. Anyone know of any UK pilots with EASA licenses flying with EU airlines (Ryanair? Not sure if there are others) from UK bases?
I heard BA only take experiences FOs so with a UK license I am limited to the likes of easyJet, Jet2, TUI for low cost short haul. With an EASA license there is more options but then there is the visa and language requirements. Anyone know of any UK pilots with EASA licenses flying with EU airlines (Ryanair? Not sure if there are others) from UK bases?
Last edited by futurepilot22; 20th Jul 2021 at 00:09.
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EMB 120 SIC Type Rating
Does anyone know about EMB 120 SIC training or about EMB 120 aircraft as a whole ? Will it be helpful for my my career if i build my hours in a turboprop as a SIC?
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questions about beginning training
Hey all, am new to this network and I'm probably in the wrong place but ill go ahead because I'm not sure where else I'd ask.
Anyway, here goes:
For pretty much the 19.5 years I've been alive, flight's been a constant part of life. Dad's a captain for Qantas, mum's dad was too, and so of course I quickly picked up a natural interest in flight, planes, etc. As a result, I've always wanted to do something to with planes after I finished school. Of course when I was younger, what exactly that was, was pretty opaque and vague. I just knew i was really into aviation. In the background I knew that I wanted to be a pilot but I guess thats just been such a constant of life that I never noted it. I really mean that. I have never not wanted to first and foremost fly for a job. Maybe as a teen I discounted it as kinda childish, but looking back now I imagine I only did so because I have wanted to since I was a little kid. That interest has remained as strong as ever but from about 16 onwards I started really looking at the engineering side of things. I'm not exactly sure why... I've been lucky enough to not have had to work particularly hard to do well academically and maybe as soon as you see kids doing well in maths and physics they instantly fit the academic phenotype of an engineer? Again, I'm not entirely sure. Anyway, I went along with that current, assuming that engineering was some sort of predetermined path for me to walk. I looked around at certain unis and found that there was an 'aerospace' option, looked up what it entailed and shrugged and assumed that it would probably be most relevant to my interests (which to be fair was correct). decided to go along with the flow for that.
Today, I'm currently at uni doing an aerospace engineering degree. It's a pretty well-renowned uni (although I have heard that other places with lower entry requirements offer a similar course of similar or even marginally better standards, depending on how one works) but over most of the course I've found myself increasingly dreading even the thought of uni. Sure, covid has made everything even more turgid than usual, but even when imagining being back on campus I can't really see myself enjoying or even just not somewhat dreading it. In all honesty, it's shown me that engineering is a lot less design and practical creation, and a lot more analysis, maintenance, and office work. I'm doing well in terms of marks but I really can't fathom doing an extension of this degree as a job. Maybe I should've seen this coming, but going into it I guess I was a lot more idealistic and excited and all.
Anyway, after thinking about finding a route out of this degree (and indeed whether I wanted out), the only other option that I find myself really and truly interested and invested in, with some potential of financial return is actually piloting (writing doesn't pay the bills
). Thanks to dad, grandpa and also in my younger years a really old copy of FS2002 (and grandpa's experience) I have what I'd imagine to be a decent knowledge of the area for a person not involved in aviation as a job (although I know it would be exceedingly basic compared to anyone having completed flight school). I know how to use a 738 FMC, how to set and use an autopilot, I know most of the common instruments and controls in a modern glass cockpit and what they're used for, etc... You get the idea. Disjointed bits of info any armchair aviation fanatic might know, along with basic flight mechanisms and physics and such. It's what you'd expect from a kid who's had 19 years with the same favourite interest, and a huge repository of info in my dad and grandpa. Again, exceedingly minuscule to the knowledge of actual pilots, but its something.
Anyway, I came to ask a couple questions.
How, in Melbourne, would you get the sort of accreditation and licensing that would possibly give one a tilt at applying for an airline like qantas? I'm aware it's a long process but any info on the journey to get there, from scratch (nada flight experience) would be unbelievably helpful. What is flight school like, any recommendations, and is it worth giving up an aerospace eng degree for (given what I've said above)? Has covid killed any chances of me finding a job before I even began? Given increasing automation will there even be any jobs left? How hard/rare is it, once I do have all relevant prerequisite criteria checked, to get job as any sort of pilot at qantas? Of course it's not qantas or nothing, but it would be my first preference (at least to end up at), especially given the familial connection.
Also, if anyone here is an aerospace engineer (long shot), what has your experience of the job and/or education been?
Anyway, I've said my piece. Many thanks to any and all who have any answers, and sorry if this clogs up the forum.
Cheers!
Anyway, here goes:
For pretty much the 19.5 years I've been alive, flight's been a constant part of life. Dad's a captain for Qantas, mum's dad was too, and so of course I quickly picked up a natural interest in flight, planes, etc. As a result, I've always wanted to do something to with planes after I finished school. Of course when I was younger, what exactly that was, was pretty opaque and vague. I just knew i was really into aviation. In the background I knew that I wanted to be a pilot but I guess thats just been such a constant of life that I never noted it. I really mean that. I have never not wanted to first and foremost fly for a job. Maybe as a teen I discounted it as kinda childish, but looking back now I imagine I only did so because I have wanted to since I was a little kid. That interest has remained as strong as ever but from about 16 onwards I started really looking at the engineering side of things. I'm not exactly sure why... I've been lucky enough to not have had to work particularly hard to do well academically and maybe as soon as you see kids doing well in maths and physics they instantly fit the academic phenotype of an engineer? Again, I'm not entirely sure. Anyway, I went along with that current, assuming that engineering was some sort of predetermined path for me to walk. I looked around at certain unis and found that there was an 'aerospace' option, looked up what it entailed and shrugged and assumed that it would probably be most relevant to my interests (which to be fair was correct). decided to go along with the flow for that.
Today, I'm currently at uni doing an aerospace engineering degree. It's a pretty well-renowned uni (although I have heard that other places with lower entry requirements offer a similar course of similar or even marginally better standards, depending on how one works) but over most of the course I've found myself increasingly dreading even the thought of uni. Sure, covid has made everything even more turgid than usual, but even when imagining being back on campus I can't really see myself enjoying or even just not somewhat dreading it. In all honesty, it's shown me that engineering is a lot less design and practical creation, and a lot more analysis, maintenance, and office work. I'm doing well in terms of marks but I really can't fathom doing an extension of this degree as a job. Maybe I should've seen this coming, but going into it I guess I was a lot more idealistic and excited and all.
Anyway, after thinking about finding a route out of this degree (and indeed whether I wanted out), the only other option that I find myself really and truly interested and invested in, with some potential of financial return is actually piloting (writing doesn't pay the bills
). Thanks to dad, grandpa and also in my younger years a really old copy of FS2002 (and grandpa's experience) I have what I'd imagine to be a decent knowledge of the area for a person not involved in aviation as a job (although I know it would be exceedingly basic compared to anyone having completed flight school). I know how to use a 738 FMC, how to set and use an autopilot, I know most of the common instruments and controls in a modern glass cockpit and what they're used for, etc... You get the idea. Disjointed bits of info any armchair aviation fanatic might know, along with basic flight mechanisms and physics and such. It's what you'd expect from a kid who's had 19 years with the same favourite interest, and a huge repository of info in my dad and grandpa. Again, exceedingly minuscule to the knowledge of actual pilots, but its something.Anyway, I came to ask a couple questions.
How, in Melbourne, would you get the sort of accreditation and licensing that would possibly give one a tilt at applying for an airline like qantas? I'm aware it's a long process but any info on the journey to get there, from scratch (nada flight experience) would be unbelievably helpful. What is flight school like, any recommendations, and is it worth giving up an aerospace eng degree for (given what I've said above)? Has covid killed any chances of me finding a job before I even began? Given increasing automation will there even be any jobs left? How hard/rare is it, once I do have all relevant prerequisite criteria checked, to get job as any sort of pilot at qantas? Of course it's not qantas or nothing, but it would be my first preference (at least to end up at), especially given the familial connection.
Also, if anyone here is an aerospace engineer (long shot), what has your experience of the job and/or education been?
Anyway, I've said my piece. Many thanks to any and all who have any answers, and sorry if this clogs up the forum.
Cheers!
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Firstly, how far into your degree are you? Many Aerospace engineering grads go into car design or anything that has an aerodynamic aspect to it. Australia really isn't at the forefront of aeroplane design unfortunately. One of my colleagues is a former aero engineer, he used to sign off B747s and the like. He prefers flying and has just made captain, but also uses his engineering skills as a reg & tech guru writing procedures for special airports etc. Another string to his bow.
What do QANTAS want? CASA ATPL, Command IR, unrestricted passport, Class 1 medical, appropriate experience. You gain the experience through instructing (if you don't want to leave Melbourne) and moving through the ranks that way, ideally Grade 1 flying instructor with multi engine and IFR teaching credits. If that doesn't appeal, then you pack your car and head "up North" to places that hire low time pilots. (That's what you'll be once you've finished training. You should have at bare minimum, a CPL with Night VFR. For the bigger aircraft, you'll need the ATPL subjects and an instrument rating). The bare minimum will qualify you to fly day VFR charter in probably a C206. Then it's the hour build/gain experience -> move to twins -> turbine etc. However, you'll hit the numbers when the QF hiring cycle begins.
Right now, QF and most airlines in Australia won't need new pilots for a while. They might in about 5 years time - just a guess.
What do QANTAS want? CASA ATPL, Command IR, unrestricted passport, Class 1 medical, appropriate experience. You gain the experience through instructing (if you don't want to leave Melbourne) and moving through the ranks that way, ideally Grade 1 flying instructor with multi engine and IFR teaching credits. If that doesn't appeal, then you pack your car and head "up North" to places that hire low time pilots. (That's what you'll be once you've finished training. You should have at bare minimum, a CPL with Night VFR. For the bigger aircraft, you'll need the ATPL subjects and an instrument rating). The bare minimum will qualify you to fly day VFR charter in probably a C206. Then it's the hour build/gain experience -> move to twins -> turbine etc. However, you'll hit the numbers when the QF hiring cycle begins.
Right now, QF and most airlines in Australia won't need new pilots for a while. They might in about 5 years time - just a guess.
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heya redsnail, cheers for the response.
Yeah, I was very much aware of the relative lack of jobs in Aus for aviation-adjacent aero eng, and honestly wouldn't have had an awful problem with leaving. Of course, this was before covid... Currently looking at second year. I think the past year or so has probably wizened me up to the fact that I'm not super likely to get a job designing anything, and I've realised that instead I really wouldn't mind doing the actual flying itself though. Although I very much appreciate in the coming years its all about a diverse skillset and all those buzzwords. They're buzzwords for a reason!
As for qantas: I appreciate they (like most airlines) require a fair amount of experience. I know for this kind of thing dad did a lot of flying around Exmouth as a low-time pilot, and i think he quite enjoyed that. I wouldn't mind either staying in Melbourne or leaving honestly, I'm very open to chasing it. If its not a hassle to ask, what would be the pros and cons of each decision?
5 years until I have a chance doesn't sound awful to be honest, thats definitely something I can stomach. I understand that currently its about the recency of a lot of pilots after covid, with operations opening back up, and maybe not so much on people fresh into the system.
Anyway, thanks! Already things have been cleared up a lot.
Yeah, I was very much aware of the relative lack of jobs in Aus for aviation-adjacent aero eng, and honestly wouldn't have had an awful problem with leaving. Of course, this was before covid... Currently looking at second year. I think the past year or so has probably wizened me up to the fact that I'm not super likely to get a job designing anything, and I've realised that instead I really wouldn't mind doing the actual flying itself though. Although I very much appreciate in the coming years its all about a diverse skillset and all those buzzwords. They're buzzwords for a reason!
As for qantas: I appreciate they (like most airlines) require a fair amount of experience. I know for this kind of thing dad did a lot of flying around Exmouth as a low-time pilot, and i think he quite enjoyed that. I wouldn't mind either staying in Melbourne or leaving honestly, I'm very open to chasing it. If its not a hassle to ask, what would be the pros and cons of each decision?
5 years until I have a chance doesn't sound awful to be honest, thats definitely something I can stomach. I understand that currently its about the recency of a lot of pilots after covid, with operations opening back up, and maybe not so much on people fresh into the system.
Anyway, thanks! Already things have been cleared up a lot.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Ha! There's a good chance I may have crossed paths with your dad then. I wasn't in Exmouth, I was in Kununurra and Broome in the early 90's.
Staying in Melbourne, Pros. It's with your friends and family and all that a big city has to offer. Cons. You can get "stuck" with instructing and whilst it's not a bad career path, there's fierce competition for what little twin flying there is. Also, you have to find your own students etc and the Instructor rating is not cheap. You will not earn a lot of money. (Come to think of it, you won't until you make it to the bigger regionals/mainline)
Heading up north. Check out the Dununda forum for more info. Cons. You're away from home and you need to be able to cope with that. If you're used to a pretty comfortable life, then sharing a house with a bunch of blokes may be a bit of an eye opener. Competition is very fierce for any job. You'll need to do any work to survive. Pros. If you're persistent, flexible and not an idiot, someone should take you on. You'll be doing charters/scenics etc in some of the most remote and beautiful places in the world. Twin progression should happen quicker. You'll make contacts and friends who'll really help for the next steps in getting turbine jobs etc.
About that 5 years. It's a guess. No one really knows. And if for some reason you miss out on QF, what then? It's great to have a goal but you do need to be pragmatic and flexible.
Staying in Melbourne, Pros. It's with your friends and family and all that a big city has to offer. Cons. You can get "stuck" with instructing and whilst it's not a bad career path, there's fierce competition for what little twin flying there is. Also, you have to find your own students etc and the Instructor rating is not cheap. You will not earn a lot of money. (Come to think of it, you won't until you make it to the bigger regionals/mainline)
Heading up north. Check out the Dununda forum for more info. Cons. You're away from home and you need to be able to cope with that. If you're used to a pretty comfortable life, then sharing a house with a bunch of blokes may be a bit of an eye opener. Competition is very fierce for any job. You'll need to do any work to survive. Pros. If you're persistent, flexible and not an idiot, someone should take you on. You'll be doing charters/scenics etc in some of the most remote and beautiful places in the world. Twin progression should happen quicker. You'll make contacts and friends who'll really help for the next steps in getting turbine jobs etc.
About that 5 years. It's a guess. No one really knows. And if for some reason you miss out on QF, what then? It's great to have a goal but you do need to be pragmatic and flexible.
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When To Start
Hello everyone,
I was wondering if people could give their opinions/advice on the situation I am in regarding when to start training.
I am currently in the middle of the second year of a three-year undergraduate course (non-aviation) which I started in 2020 instead of starting my integrated ATPL at a large ATO in the UK due to COVID-19 and wanting to see what the future held for the industry before committing.
I personally feel that since then the global outlook for aviation has improved significantly, especially the last few weeks with a number of countries that have had very strict border controls deciding to loosen them significantly, I also have seen that the recovery is following the eurocontrol most optimistic scenario with 2019 levels being reached in 2023 or 2024 and finally I know that all of the British Airways new hire cabin crew hold pool have been offered start dates in spring 2022 which again is a very good sign.
I have been thinking a lot about all of this and obviously I would rather be at the front end of a hiring wave than the back so was considering deferring my final year of university to start training, then finish my degree at a later date when I am done, this way I can take advantage of any potential hiring boom and still have completed university, is this a good idea or am I being overly optimistic?
Looking forward to reading your responses.
I was wondering if people could give their opinions/advice on the situation I am in regarding when to start training.
I am currently in the middle of the second year of a three-year undergraduate course (non-aviation) which I started in 2020 instead of starting my integrated ATPL at a large ATO in the UK due to COVID-19 and wanting to see what the future held for the industry before committing.
I personally feel that since then the global outlook for aviation has improved significantly, especially the last few weeks with a number of countries that have had very strict border controls deciding to loosen them significantly, I also have seen that the recovery is following the eurocontrol most optimistic scenario with 2019 levels being reached in 2023 or 2024 and finally I know that all of the British Airways new hire cabin crew hold pool have been offered start dates in spring 2022 which again is a very good sign.
I have been thinking a lot about all of this and obviously I would rather be at the front end of a hiring wave than the back so was considering deferring my final year of university to start training, then finish my degree at a later date when I am done, this way I can take advantage of any potential hiring boom and still have completed university, is this a good idea or am I being overly optimistic?
Looking forward to reading your responses.
de minimus non curat lex
I shall keep this short & sweet. Complete your degree, and then proceed Modular. Get the timings right, you can achieve CPL/IR nearly as quick as Integrated, who have been known to have delays for various reasons.
There are still large numbers of pilots (note 1) of known quality to return. If there are shortages due to airline rapid expansion, they are far easier to return to the line.
Note 1: those laid off/made redundant might have taken ‘early retirement’; others have found more secure employment (train driver?) & decide not to risk it again due financial/family commitments.
There are still large numbers of pilots (note 1) of known quality to return. If there are shortages due to airline rapid expansion, they are far easier to return to the line.
Note 1: those laid off/made redundant might have taken ‘early retirement’; others have found more secure employment (train driver?) & decide not to risk it again due financial/family commitments.
Last edited by parkfell; 13th Oct 2021 at 19:55.
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Fast forward 2 years since COVID started. Is it still worth to drop everything and spend over 100k to pursue the dream? With no job guarantee and only optimism and motivation.
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Should I go for it? Please advise and help
Hi everyone,
I am new in this great forum, and would like to know your opinions about my situation and intentions.
I am 35 years old, PPL holder, and wondering if I should study ATPL and go for the remaining licenses to become a professional commercial pilot. My concerns come mainly from my age, current jobmarket situation , real chances of getting a job when I finish (I have no big contacts at the airlines), and whether that future life would suit me (I know it has loads of sacrifices, but I honestly think trade-off is still positive when considering all the perks and specially, my motivation and vocation).
I am currently working in a non-aviation related company, with a medium level and salary position. It is quite a stable job but I feel burnout, bored, and have always dreamt of being a pilot. I honestly feel the moment is now or never, mainly due to age reasons and because I need to decide in order to focus my professional/personal life.
Would love to know your advise, comments or any other tip you can have.
Thanks a lot in advance.
Best,
Europeancitizen
I am new in this great forum, and would like to know your opinions about my situation and intentions.
I am 35 years old, PPL holder, and wondering if I should study ATPL and go for the remaining licenses to become a professional commercial pilot. My concerns come mainly from my age, current jobmarket situation , real chances of getting a job when I finish (I have no big contacts at the airlines), and whether that future life would suit me (I know it has loads of sacrifices, but I honestly think trade-off is still positive when considering all the perks and specially, my motivation and vocation).
I am currently working in a non-aviation related company, with a medium level and salary position. It is quite a stable job but I feel burnout, bored, and have always dreamt of being a pilot. I honestly feel the moment is now or never, mainly due to age reasons and because I need to decide in order to focus my professional/personal life.
Would love to know your advise, comments or any other tip you can have.
Thanks a lot in advance.
Best,
Europeancitizen
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Hi Europeancitizen,
Here's the thing. Can you afford to throw away €60K+ on your dream and living on €25K for a few years after the training? If you can, great.
If you cannot, then think long and hard about spending that kind of money.
I see you have a Class 2, make sure you can get a class 1 with no issues otherwise, there's no point in continuing.
The cheapest way is modular, the best way is to get onto a tagged scheme whereby an airline will pick you up after training - assuming no issues. BTW - you'll still pay for every thing, just a lot more outlay from you.
Just curious, what "perks" are there?
Here's the thing. Can you afford to throw away €60K+ on your dream and living on €25K for a few years after the training? If you can, great.
If you cannot, then think long and hard about spending that kind of money.
I see you have a Class 2, make sure you can get a class 1 with no issues otherwise, there's no point in continuing.
The cheapest way is modular, the best way is to get onto a tagged scheme whereby an airline will pick you up after training - assuming no issues. BTW - you'll still pay for every thing, just a lot more outlay from you.
Just curious, what "perks" are there?
35 too old? 🤣🤣
So a 28 year career is not enough?
Have you never heard the expression 'buy the dip' - when exactly do you think the best time to get into the industry is? Hint: it's not when they're hiring like crazy.
So a 28 year career is not enough?
Have you never heard the expression 'buy the dip' - when exactly do you think the best time to get into the industry is? Hint: it's not when they're hiring like crazy.