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My dream - advice please (collective thread)

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My dream - advice please (collective thread)

Old 15th Nov 2023, 15:11
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Impartial advice needed

Hi everyone,

So, I want to become a pilot and work for the airlines. I do have the means of funding through a mixture of parents and then financing the rest. I am looking at integrated vs modular and even the generation EasyJet programme (I know itís not very popular on here but I am still considering it as an option due to the conditional employment)

However my wider issue- I am a law graduate and have a training contract secured at a big London firm (so that will be one year of law school (funded) followed by 2 years of training on a nice salary which would help me save up more of my own money). Now while I worked hard for this I donít want to fall into the sunk cost fallacy.

I am wondering what others would do because I have always wanted to become an airline pilot which also offers a better work life balance than presumably 60hr weeks in London. But Iím also aware that this opportunity in London is a very good one and gives the fall back option. But I will be commiting myself to 3 years for something I donít really want to do long term. In addition the SQE is also going to be quite intense study so to know Iím doing that for the sake of 2 years is a factor especially when the atpls are also very intense.

Would it be worth being patient? (I am also in the process of applying for Irish citizenship so In 2 years I will have the right to live and work in the EU)
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Old 15th Nov 2023, 18:28
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Originally Posted by Pilot30
Hi everyone,

So, I want to become a pilot and work for the airlines. I do have the means of funding through a mixture of parents and then financing the rest. I am looking at integrated vs modular and even the generation EasyJet programme (I know itís not very popular on here but I am still considering it as an option due to the conditional employment)

However my wider issue- I am a law graduate and have a training contract secured at a big London firm (so that will be one year of law school (funded) followed by 2 years of training on a nice salary which would help me save up more of my own money). Now while I worked hard for this I donít want to fall into the sunk cost fallacy.

I am wondering what others would do because I have always wanted to become an airline pilot which also offers a better work life balance than presumably 60hr weeks in London. But Iím also aware that this opportunity in London is a very good one and gives the fall back option. But I will be commiting myself to 3 years for something I donít really want to do long term. In addition the SQE is also going to be quite intense study so to know Iím doing that for the sake of 2 years is a factor especially when the atpls are also very intense.

Would it be worth being patient? (I am also in the process of applying for Irish citizenship so In 2 years I will have the right to live and work in the EU)
Become a pilot. Law looks horrific in the city - 60 hour weeks? Try 80. And how many people actually get to sit there on £150K for very little work by 30 for a company that wonít work them outside their contact when practicing law?..

Youíll kick yourself forever if you donít. Backup? Pfft, if you need a backup job because you canít land one flying then thatís the time to get one. Itís unlikely youíll need one. Spend three years doing law but get a flying job straight away and youíve simply wasted three years staring at a computer screen researching articles that you care very little about. Thatís three years not on the top payscale as a training captain.
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Old 16th Nov 2023, 14:22
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Originally Posted by Pilot30
Hi everyone,
So, I want to become a pilot and work for the airlinesÖÖEU)
To all aspiring junior birdmenÖÖ.before you post here with your life history etc, obtain a CLASS ONE MEDICAL, then seek the advice.

8% of males will fail due to a colour deficiency.
Best to find out without undue delay, then think about plan B for those unfortunate individuals.
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Old 16th Nov 2023, 15:40
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for Pilot30

Originally Posted by VariablePitchP
Become a pilot. Law looks horrific in the city - 60 hour weeks? Try 80. And how many people actually get to sit there on £150K for very little work by 30 for a company that wonít work them outside their contact when practicing law?..

Youíll kick yourself forever if you donít. Backup? Pfft, if you need a backup job because you canít land one flying then thatís the time to get one. Itís unlikely youíll need one. Spend three years doing law but get a flying job straight away and youíve simply wasted three years staring at a computer screen researching articles that you care very little about. Thatís three years not on the top payscale as a training captain.
Yeah...lots of insane advice on this sub, really hope you don't make such a bold decision consulting internet strangers who could be anybody with intentions you don't know. Go talk to real people for advice.

An internet forum can cloud your decision since you risk overvaluing internet opinions, not wise when a training contract at a London law firm is at stake. Lots of older folks here, or people who've never worked in high skilled roles, that are out of touch. Nobody here will be accountable for your decisions. It's your parents money, they will be in this risk with you and nobody here will.
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Old 16th Nov 2023, 17:21
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If you want to be a pilot and get trained without paying for it then join whichever air force your nationality allows you to! I too was a 15 year old wanabee pilot once. At 18 I joined the RAF, flew single seat supersonic aircraft when I was 20, was a 4 jet captain at 23, and have just completed my 50th year in military aviation(only in the sim these days though)! Of course if you want to just fly airliners from A to B then you'll need fork out a large sum of money unless you can get on an airline sponsored training program. Trust me, air to air combat or low level bombing is much more fun.
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Old 16th Nov 2023, 18:54
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Originally Posted by Specaircrew
If you want to be a pilot and get trained without paying for it then join whichever air force your nationality allows you to! I too was a 15 year old wanabee pilot once. At 18 I joined the RAF, flew single seat supersonic aircraft when I was 20, was a 4 jet captain at 23, and have just completed my 50th year in military aviation(only in the sim these days though)! Of course if you want to just fly airliners from A to B then you'll need fork out a large sum of money unless you can get on an airline sponsored training program. Trust me, air to air combat or low level bombing is much more fun.
If you want to be a military pilot then do the above.

Sadly the above is as relevant as a BOAC 707 captain from Hamble extolling their cadet path. Itís really cool what you were able to do, but good luck being front line before 30 in todayís RAFÖ Get 1500 hours before 35 and youíre doing well. Again, if you want to be a military pilot thatís still fab. But the whole join the military then crossover thing to save some training cost just doesnít hold water any more.
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Old 17th Nov 2023, 13:41
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One thing you should figure out is if your potential law job will adjust for inflation or not, or if you are competent enough to put your savings into a reasonable investment that protects you against this. You don't want to end up wasting many years saving only to realize that training cost has increased by 50-100%.
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Old 18th Nov 2023, 11:02
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Originally Posted by Pilot30
Hi everyone,

So, I want to become a pilot and work for the airlines. I do have the means of funding through a mixture of parents and then financing the rest. I am looking at integrated vs modular and even the generation EasyJet programme (I know it’s not very popular on here but I am still considering it as an option due to the conditional employment)

However my wider issue- I am a law graduate and have a training contract secured at a big London firm (so that will be one year of law school (funded) followed by 2 years of training on a nice salary which would help me save up more of my own money). Now while I worked hard for this I don’t want to fall into the sunk cost fallacy.

I am wondering what others would do because I have always wanted to become an airline pilot which also offers a better work life balance than presumably 60hr weeks in London. But I’m also aware that this opportunity in London is a very good one and gives the fall back option. But I will be commiting myself to 3 years for something I don’t really want to do long term. In addition the SQE is also going to be quite intense study so to know I’m doing that for the sake of 2 years is a factor especially when the atpls are also very intense.

Would it be worth being patient? (I am also in the process of applying for Irish citizenship so In 2 years I will have the right to live and work in the EU)
Hi Pilot30
Well done on securing the law job first of all.
I'm on a similar track as to what you describe - but about 2 years ahead (I have 2 years of work experience done out of 3 year training contract). I work in finance (insurance/risk management). So far I've really enjoyed it - most importantly I've made friends for life (I am going to one of their weddings' next year!), I'm studying towards a professional qualification, and am getting lots of experience in an extremely challenging role.

Graduate roles like this in finance/law teach you a lot of things which fresh-faced cadets leaving secondary school and going to a flight school won't have or experience. Learning how to work in a team, work under stressful conditions, deal with commercial pressures and how to stand up for yourself are all extremely desirable characteristics for a pilot in today's CRM-focused world.

If you couldn't tell already - my view is that it would not be a waste for you to do the training contract and save money. I'm going modular and about halfway through my PPL, timing finishing my PPL with my professional exams so that I can hour build and take a loan out to accelerate the CPL/ME/IR/APS-MCC portion all in one go.
Whilst people (rightly) say you will miss out on 2/3 years of "training captain salary" - you will have enough years under your belt of flying by the time you retire, even if you are in your late 20s by the time you're in the flight deck.

Nowadays people our age want instant gratification etc. - I've satisfied my "craving" and FOMO by doing my PPL on the side every other weekend... It's very doable.
I don't think you'd regret doing your training contract - you might regret rushing into aviation so soon though. If you know you're going to get into it eventually, doing something else for a while will only make you a more attractive candidate (IMO).
My only piece of advice is to appreciate how difficult it can be to actually save money working in an expensive city like London/Dublin when you're young and enjoying yourself. But it sounds like all in all you've given the journey a good bit of thought.
Hope this helps a little
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Old 18th Nov 2023, 15:07
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Training Captain salary FOMO

Originally Posted by ShrannyToon
Hi Pilot30
Well done on securing the law job first of all.
I'm on a similar track as to what you describe - but about 2 years ahead (I have 2 years of work experience done out of 3 year training contract). I work in finance (insurance/risk management). So far I've really enjoyed it - most importantly I've made friends for life (I am going to one of their weddings' next year!), I'm studying towards a professional qualification, and am getting lots of experience in an extremely challenging role.

Graduate roles like this in finance/law teach you a lot of things which fresh-faced cadets leaving secondary school and going to a flight school won't have or experience. Learning how to work in a team, work under stressful conditions, deal with commercial pressures and how to stand up for yourself are all extremely desirable characteristics for a pilot in today's CRM-focused world.

If you couldn't tell already - my view is that it would not be a waste for you to do the training contract and save money. I'm going modular and about halfway through my PPL, timing finishing my PPL with my professional exams so that I can hour build and take a loan out to accelerate the CPL/ME/IR/APS-MCC portion all in one go.
Whilst people (rightly) say you will miss out on 2/3 years of "training captain salary" - you will have enough years under your belt of flying by the time you retire, even if you are in your late 20s by the time you're in the flight deck.

Nowadays people our age want instant gratification etc. - I've satisfied my "craving" and FOMO by doing my PPL on the side every other weekend... It's very doable.
I don't think you'd regret doing your training contract - you might regret rushing into aviation so soon though. If you know you're going to get into it eventually, doing something else for a while will only make you a more attractive candidate (IMO).
My only piece of advice is to appreciate how difficult it can be to actually save money working in an expensive city like London/Dublin when you're young and enjoying yourself. But it sounds like all in all you've given the journey a good bit of thought.
Hope this helps a little
Impressive, the people I know who've secured training contracts are cut from a different cloth. To do that on top of flight training sounds incredibly tough.

I don't think it's bad having a few years experience in a high skilled role either.

How many pilots actually end up as training captains commanding salaries of £200k+ in reality though? Trying to jump ship quickly as possible to maximise career earnings when it's so far into the future that other things could bring to a stop is another thing to consider. You're not guaranteed anything.
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Old 18th Nov 2023, 21:45
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Originally Posted by PolomDrastiz
Impressive, the people I know who've secured training contracts are cut from a different cloth. To do that on top of flight training sounds incredibly tough.

I don't think it's bad having a few years experience in a high skilled role either.

How many pilots actually end up as training captains commanding salaries of £200k+ in reality though? Trying to jump ship quickly as possible to maximise career earnings when it's so far into the future that other things could bring to a stop is another thing to consider. You're not guaranteed anything.
But if the end goal, which is the important bit, is to be a pilot. Why bother?

Why not spend 20 years becoming a qualified surgeon. Why not 35 years, then get a licence and first flying job at 58?

Once you establish that what you genuinely want to do is fly aircraft for a living, I just donít see why you would want to throw away years getting a bit of paper to put up in the hallway, which is likely all itíll ever be used for.

As to your question about cash, training captains at most carriers will get close to that, itís a well paid profession. Get that position at a BA/Virgin and youíll be well North of £200K. Unless you spent 15 years building up a knowledge of litigating planning permission infractions, then you wonít have the time to get there.
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Old 20th Nov 2023, 11:52
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Originally Posted by VariablePitchP
But if the end goal, which is the important bit, is to be a pilot. Why bother?

Why not spend 20 years becoming a qualified surgeon. Why not 35 years, then get a licence and first flying job at 58?

Once you establish that what you genuinely want to do is fly aircraft for a living, I just don’t see why you would want to throw away years getting a bit of paper to put up in the hallway, which is likely all it’ll ever be used for.

As to your question about cash, training captains at most carriers will get close to that, it’s a well paid profession. Get that position at a BA/Virgin and you’ll be well North of £200K. Unless you spent 15 years building up a knowledge of litigating planning permission infractions, then you won’t have the time to get there.
I understand your view - but the "why bother" part for me isn't an option. I need a high-paying job to accelerate my earnings. If I could work in Tesco or work in a large insurance company in a corporate setting, I wouldn't ask why bother but instead, why not. My post centered around those for whom financing (loans, equity release etc.) aren't an option - ie. if you need to save yourself, you might as well make it a useful experience for you.
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Old 18th Dec 2023, 15:37
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Originally Posted by Pilot30
Hi everyone,

So, I want to become a pilot and work for the airlines. I do have the means of funding through a mixture of parents and then financing the rest. I am looking at integrated vs modular and even the generation EasyJet programme (I know itís not very popular on here but I am still considering it as an option due to the conditional employment)

However my wider issue- I am a law graduate and have a training contract secured at a big London firm (so that will be one year of law school (funded) followed by 2 years of training on a nice salary which would help me save up more of my own money). Now while I worked hard for this I donít want to fall into the sunk cost fallacy.

I am wondering what others would do because I have always wanted to become an airline pilot which also offers a better work life balance than presumably 60hr weeks in London. But Iím also aware that this opportunity in London is a very good one and gives the fall back option. But I will be commiting myself to 3 years for something I donít really want to do long term. In addition the SQE is also going to be quite intense study so to know Iím doing that for the sake of 2 years is a factor especially when the atpls are also very intense.

Would it be worth being patient? (I am also in the process of applying for Irish citizenship so In 2 years I will have the right to live and work in the EU)
Easy answer. Take the training contract. Those are HARD to come by so well done. Complete your training via the modular route while training. Time modular training with training contract and only quit your high paying law job when you secure your first job. Yes itís your dream to fly but also donít be stupid. No guarantee on how long itíll take you to find a job after training. As someone whoís missus just completed their training context, do the smart thing. Also aviation is very cyclical. You may get made redundant at some point. You have the backup profession to do contract work until you get another flying job. Take the training contract
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Old 21st Dec 2023, 19:41
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Career change risk

I am considering a career change from my current profession working at a bank. Due to the cost of the training we were told about at school, becoming a pilot was never an option. I am 30 now, and have sufficient cash to pay for modular training. It seems it will be max £70k, but there could be a number of ways to save if careful.

How much risk is there involved for a career changer in terms of not being able to get a job at the end of the training (up to 24 months after starting)?

I have a degree from a top uni, have had decent reviews all the way through my career, so no competency or personality issues that could prevent me getting a job. How difficult is it out there to land your first role?

I would always be able to get a contract role, but could look very stupid if i have spent all the money and time retraining and there being no jobs. This is the only thing holding me back currently.
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Old 22nd Dec 2023, 04:24
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Originally Posted by Careerchanger3
I am considering a career change from my current profession working at a bank. Due to the cost of the training we were told about at school, becoming a pilot was never an option. I am 30 now, and have sufficient cash to pay for modular training. It seems it will be max £70k, but there could be a number of ways to save if careful.

How much risk is there involved for a career changer in terms of not being able to get a job at the end of the training (up to 24 months after starting)?

I have a degree from a top uni, have had decent reviews all the way through my career, so no competency or personality issues that could prevent me getting a job. How difficult is it out there to land your first role?

I would always be able to get a contract role, but could look very stupid if i have spent all the money and time retraining and there being no jobs. This is the only thing holding me back currently.
There is always a risk, ultimately. But looking at your background itís lower.

Genuine life experience, presumable a pretty solid work ethic to have done at least relatively well in banking, good academic foundations etc. Youíre not just another 18 year old that daddy has sent through a pilot factory.

If you had a licence today youíd be able to join one of quite a few airlines. Youíd have Jet2, Ryanair, Wizz, BA, Loganair all open to you. If nothing cataclysmic changes in the world within the next two years it looks like the picture will only get better. But there is a non-zero chance of something cataclysmic happening. But even those who graduated in April 2020 are more or less all employed now.

The real risk to me would be not doing it. Could you get through the next 30 years starting at P/L spreadsheets in an office without trying the flying gig, and still be truly happy. Or will you get to 55, the point at which it does become too late, and be furious with yourself for not following the path?
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Old 23rd Dec 2023, 09:09
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Originally Posted by VariablePitchP

If you had a licence today youíd be able to join one of quite a few airlines. Youíd have Jet2, Ryanair, Wizz, BA, Loganair all open to you.
I thought Jet2 and Loganair wanted some commercial experience and wonít just hire someone with ME-IR-CPL-UPRT-APS-MCC (at least officially)?
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Old 23rd Dec 2023, 22:36
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Originally Posted by Terrence Trent Derby
I thought Jet2 and Loganair wanted some commercial experience and wonít just hire someone with ME-IR-CPL-UPRT-APS-MCC (at least officially)?
J2 pilot apprenticeship. Loganair seems to be as and when but definitely a first airline job for a good number of people.
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Old 1st Jan 2024, 04:06
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Need some advice on different pathways to become a commercial pilot (AUS)

Hello,
I am almost 18 and i am set on becoming a pilot. I have spoken to many people and i have been told to take so many different routes its overwhelming.
Right now i need to decide whether i should go for my RPL because i have heard that you cant get a Cadetship if you have previous flying training. I am looking at applying for the REX and Qantas cadetships mid next year. (Virgin and Jetstar are not offering at the moment)
These are the pathways im looking at:
  1. get a cadetship
  2. if i don't get a cadetship get my CPL and then get a job in Alice springs or darwin doing charter OR become a flight instructor and get the hours up until i can apply for a commercial aviation job.
  3. if i don't get a cadetship apply for an apprenticeship in aircraft maintenance and while i am doing the apprenticeship get my CPL and once i finish then get a job flying
Also i spoke to someone who recommended the Bush Pilot pathway then once you hit 1500 hours apply for the cargo airlines in the U.S. Wondering if this is a good route?
Also is the Griffith Uni aviation degree worth it? Does it help me get a job?
I am really stuck deciding and i with option 3 i dont really want to spend 2 years doing a diploma, spending $50k in training then spend another 2 years on the apprenticeship then on top of that its another $130k for my CPL. I definitely want a backup in case the industry falls like it did in COVID
Also my long term goal is to do long haul flights for an overseas airline such as emirates
any advice is appreciated and thanks
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Old 1st Jan 2024, 22:46
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Originally Posted by 4lek5
Hello,
I am almost 18 and i am set on becoming a pilot. I have spoken to many people and i have been told to take so many different routes its overwhelming.
Right now i need to decide whether i should go for my RPL because i have heard that you cant get a Cadetship if you have previous flying training. I am looking at applying for the REX and Qantas cadetships mid next year. (Virgin and Jetstar are not offering at the moment)
These are the pathways im looking at:
  1. get a cadetship
  2. if i don't get a cadetship get my CPL and then get a job in Alice springs or darwin doing charter OR become a flight instructor and get the hours up until i can apply for a commercial aviation job.
  3. if i don't get a cadetship apply for an apprenticeship in aircraft maintenance and while i am doing the apprenticeship get my CPL and once i finish then get a job flying
Also i spoke to someone who recommended the Bush Pilot pathway then once you hit 1500 hours apply for the cargo airlines in the U.S. Wondering if this is a good route?
Also is the Griffith Uni aviation degree worth it? Does it help me get a job?
I am really stuck deciding and i with option 3 i dont really want to spend 2 years doing a diploma, spending $50k in training then spend another 2 years on the apprenticeship then on top of that its another $130k for my CPL. I definitely want a backup in case the industry falls like it did in COVID
Also my long term goal is to do long haul flights for an overseas airline such as emirates
any advice is appreciated and thanks
Hi there,

You answered a few questions yourself already.

Go for a Professional Diploma and or a USEFUL degree.
Many of us who did not have a proper pre education ended up doing unskilled labour during Covid as a Pilots License is not recognized as a Skilled worker diploma.

If you wanna work in the US, you need a Permit to live and work in the US, but Aussies such as yourself have a kind of way to get the E3 Visa relatively easy as there is a certain agreement about that between Australia and the US.

Once again, have a backup plan. That doesnt need to be Uni, but can be professional bachalor as well.

I dont know if in Australia there is a scene of Glider Flying. That could be a great option to do in the meanwhile 😄.

Good look and Happy New Year 😄✈️
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 11:55
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EU citizenship

Hey , this is my first time posting here and have a question
i wanted to be a pilot my whole life and i live in italy .
I can apply for EU citizenship in 5years and right now i only have EU permanent residence ( unlimited residence right ) and i was wondering if can work for let's say Ryanair wizz air or any regional airline without citizenship when i graduate flight school.
I would love to know before i embark on this aviation journey or go to university instead.
Thanks for reading
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 13:42
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You're in an enviable position. As an Australian you can do all your training in the US and in 2 years be flying a Jet. The cheapest and controversial option is don't bother with CASA training - get an F1 visa and get all your FAA certificates, work in the US as an flight instructor then stay on an E3.
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