Thezk77. What's stopping you from going interstate? Not sure where you're living in Vic but you'll be the luckiest person alive that will never have to leave their hometown for this industry... Righto, if you have deep pockets, you can get lucky if you get an instructor rating and get work with a company that has access to multi engine charter.

Degrees are nice but not essential in Australia. As many Virgin and Qantas pilots are finding out now, a big fat log book is worth nothing when no one is employing. A degree that's 10 years old and no relevent experience isn't particularly useful either. However, this is the future. Right now, you're better off keeping your costs down, and getting something that's useful in the short term.

mikeax

I had the Nordian books around 7-8 years ago, they are not very good.

The best that time was Bristol and Oxford, the rest did not make me very impressed.

Cilla1989

I’m in a similar position to you, in that I’m in the RAF, but with 5 years until my EDP point (I’m 35 in a few months). Too late to leave now and I enjoy my current job so I’ll ride it out until I’m 40. The aim is to be qualified around a year to six months befor I leave. PPL is almost finished (you’ll love it!) so now I’m considering what to do ref hour building. I’m open minded, however I do think that we (military) are fairly versatile and can draw on a lot of experience dealing with people, problems, technology, crises, etc. Regarding the age issue, pretty much every instructor I’ve come across has been positive and until Covid came along they were talking about getting a job not being an issue. A few days ago I was chatting with a BA recruiter and A380 pilot; he said In his opinion, that things will pick up in a few years and the demand for pilots will be there, which was encouraging.

I used all of my ELCs towards the PPL and if you are down south, I can recommend a decent military affiliated club which has very competitive rates for aircraft hire/instruction. Drop me a pm.

Did not think I would like it as much as I did. Just a quick question: In your opinion, is it a good time to get into aviation, what with the new plague? Do you think it will pay off within, say, two years time?

I'm open to any and all advice as a newcomer, so general advice is appreciated as well. Also, I'm not familiar with a lot of abbreviated terms, so if possible, put what they mean in parentheses.

Thanks!

Do your PPL and see how it goes. Don’t give up the day job.
As for professional employment as a pilot, plan on not before 2024

Hello there,

I am a Russian citizen currently in year 10 of school (I graduate in 2022 and turn 18 in 2023). I have excellent English knowledge and am good in maths and physics, am physically fit too.

Due to my eyesight (astigmatism) I am unable to obtain a Russian medical certificate, so the only option of pilot training I'm looking at right now is integrated ATPL courses (cadet programs endorsed by airlines) Europe. Now the problem is, obviously, that I am a Russian citizen. Most flight schools require EU/EEA citizenship.

The only one I found that might work for me is Wizz Air Academy, because they only require you to be a citizen of one of their base countries (thankfully, Wizz is opening a base in my city this year). It is also attractive to me because the upfront cost is only 15000 euros.

My question is: Is there a real chance of me getting into the Wizz Air program vs say, a EU citizen? If not, are there any other schools that do not require EU citizenship to enroll?

Thanks in advance.

Since when do you have to be an EU citizen to study in the EU? With the correct visa you should be able to go to flight school anywhere. As for €15,000 - that's probably just the upfront cost, the total will be 4-5 times that amount. There is a huge pilot surplus at the moment, so you won't find an airline to sponsor you unfortunately.

Most airline endorsed integrated ATPL programs that I've seen (Air Baltic, for example) require that you hold an EU/EEA/CH passport to apply. In any case, I doubt they'd be likely to pick me over any EU citizen, considering the pilot surplus.

The €15,000 is indeed just the upfront cost - however- the rest is paid off via increments off your salary after you've been released from line training as an Airbus FO - which I think is a very good thing.

I think you've been misinformed, that's about as believable as seeing a unicorn.

That's quite unfortunate, thanks for the information though.

I still have the reserve option of going to a Russian aviation university, but there's a hiccup with obtaining a medical (could possibly get eye surgery to circumvent that).

The main reason I wanted to try EU is because I believe that the Russian aviation philosophy is incorrect and unsafe, starting from the way pilots are taught to fly and going all the way up to how management treats safety-related issues.

I guess there's no easy way, haha! Either way, I'll give it a try. "Make them tell you no", as C. W. Lemoine says...

If I do get in somehow, be it in EASA or Russia, I'll check in here with my experience in a couple of years.

Thanks everyone for the advice!

William Pitt the Younger, gave some accurate advice (1806) which is probably apposite for those thinking about embarking on a flying career. “Roll up the map of Europe.......”

He quoted 10 years. Plan on somewhere in the region of five years.

i am currently in air arabia with the temporary contract and i wish i didnt spent all those money for such.
First of all, you need to know 1500HRS ARE NOT GAURANTTED. Knowing this must be the most important before you make a decision. many of cadets have been terminated without completing 1500hrs nor ATPLl.
You can be terminated during alpha training as well as line training. even after line release, you can be fired any time.

This is a fact. as a second officer or first officer trainee(this is the designation till you get a permanent contract, if you ever get it) you can be fired any time without completing your hours and i have seen those a lot.

When I registered alpha aviation academy, I was told that the course takes 2years and 98% of people get the contract. it took 4years for me and my batchmates. 16 of us started at the beginning but they terminated 2 after ground school(already paid 2 installment) and continuously fired ppl till the end of the course. I know those who completed entire course got terminated and people who were under line training as well.

Probably only a little more than half of us survived till now and no one received the permanent contract. Some got terminated due to attitude problem (don't you think this attitude problem can be very personal? Sometimes you say something right and can be considered as a person with attitude problem) and others got terminated due to performance matter.


You never know if you are going to be outstanding, average or below standard in terms of flying skill. Some are gifted others are not. Ive seen people who got fired even after line training as well.
I understand you all want to see the bright side of the school because you want to become a pilot so badly and i was the same. but reality is different from what they say or what you think.

You really have to have a plan B if you are going to step into this program. with this pandemic i know guys who got terminated without completing 1500hrs and some without ATPL as well. Anyone tell me what these guys going to do, after spending 5-6years and AED 700,000.

This MPL license without 1500hrs is nothing. If you are serious about this program at least you can call or visit school and ask them if this is true or not. if you end up without ATPL after all, you just wasted your time and money and i have absolutely seen them and i am not talking about just 1 or 2 persons.

Now what options do they have? I guess they will go to USA and do CPL and build the flying hours till they make 1500hours, which means they will most probably need minimum of 100,000 dollars and another 2years more.

They used to pay AED5000 per month but now they reduced it till 3500 prorated. if you fly for 10days a month, your salary will be AED1170 only. I think they can eventually remove this as well because no one will brave enough to complain when you need your hours to get your ATPL.

Once you enter this MPL cadet course, you become their slave. what I mean is you cannot be against whatever they do whichever they change regardless of whatever was said in the beginning. You won't be able to say anything to them because they are the one who evaluates you, decides your sequence for the training.

Now I heard even the batch number is not considered for the training sequence. they made the list and now everything depends on it. Now the important things are when you made a payment and what marks you got on the exams only. this is ridiculous. at least it was fair before when I was in alpha. right now it is absolutely unfair and you never know when your turn to be for your next training.

I heard students complain but now sure if they are going to change this any time soon. imagine even for your graduation certificate and any letters you request for cost AED100 from some day. this is really shocking. after taking AED700,000, they cant even offer the certificates. they were free previously. they decided to make money using every single stuff. visa renew is 2000 every year and medical is 1500 every year.

if you already entered school i'm sure you already figured out what kinda world you stepped in.. But if you still have a chance not to enter this academy, you better look for something else. or you get all the information about how it goes there and see if what i mentioned is true or not. after all, if you still want to join alpha. I respect your opinion by all means. but don't just step in without knowing what is waiting for you. I have to say it used to be a lot nicer but right now it isn't clearly the best choice, till they change many things.

can this be legal? One of my friends in this MPL course is suffering a lot from the delay. planned for 2 years but Already been more than 3years and not done with the coarse spent all the money he prepared and has to start returning the loan Now if they don’t provide salary he will be really in deep Already looks so bad though

rudestuff

Well actually Wizz Air is sponsoring training program... is not just the upfront cost as you say

Eventually the market will pick up and return to the pre Covid 19 rhythm. A brief background about me, I have been through the modular route from 2013-2016, September 2016 was my last session if I remember correctly on my MCC course, in November I was called for an interview by 3 airlines, one major low cost airline the other a flag carrier of a Southern EU country and a small ACMI operator in the Balkans.

Decided to go all in with the flag carrier, learned the profile, had covered my ATPLs already(this should be a continuous process after you are done with the course) and I was already fresh with my IR flying. While abroad going through the interview process of the Southern EU flag carrier I was called by the other 2 carriers for an assessment, I had to close the doors to the other 2 which was a foolish and risky move but I was very short of money, couldn't learn the profiles that they have sent in a week and did not even have the money to travel there and stay in a hotel for 2 nights just to go through the interview process which I knew I wasn't gonna pass as I was unprepared and needed at least 2 sim sessions just to get familiar with the scanning of that aircraft but also with the profiles(gone through a generic MCC course)

Needless to say the only reason it took me 3 years to get the CPL was because I did not have the money from the beginning, had to interrupt my training several times, but I though if I stick to one flight school then I could at least continue my training without delays when I had the funds to continue and to control the only variable which I could which was consistency.

Bear in mind that my school did not offer integrated training at all, and it only received the approval for the CPL and IR right when I finished my hour building there. So I was the first student pilot to have done all the training at that school and was the first to obtain a CPL/IR in that country from a local school.
So I have done my PPL Night Rating Hour Building MEP CPL IR and MCC at that school (outside the UK but within EU) no one knew the school apart from the locals and I only did my ATPLs in UK specifically at a school which has been bought over by CTC back in 2015.

In December 2016 I began my type rating on the A320 and I have been flying ever since( Although I am on unpaid leave now for almost a month...)

The reason I briefly discussed my training background is to make everyone both experienced and aspiring pilots understand that there is hope. It's not about how much money you have, nor at which school you did your flight training or how smart or stupid someone is.

Employment in aviation has never been easy and it might be at it's worst now, but for the aspiring pilots, if you got the aviation bug inside you, if you know that this is what you want to do for the rest of your life then go for it. Ignore what other people say, once someone makes it on the seat they start discouraging other people forgetting that before they managed to get their first job, they have been hearing the same BS from others.

Important points that you should keep in mind which I wish someone has told me before I even started my training.

1) Confirm with your self first of all that this is indeed what you want to do for most of your career.

2) Confirm that you or your family can finance the training, it's only gonna make it harder if you don't have the money from the start and will stress you and demotivate you.

3) Obtain a Class 1 Medical before you do anything else.

4) Preferably start your training after you have finished school, regarding going to Uni for a degree, I tend to believe that this is unnecessary, reason being that you will waste 3 years of your time and money for something that you are not planning to do for the rest of your life as your goal eventually is to sit to the right hand seat of an airliner. Having a degree with no experience it's the same as not having a degree. You always have the option to do a top up degree or even a masters after you start flying, plenty of Uni's out there who offer descend courses online, much cheaper for experienced professionals.

5) Stay on top of things, always study hard, read the books and manuals you paid for, never leave anything behind and if helpful always have a note book for each subject which will help you save time in revising for an exam or an interview for that matter. Question banks should be referred to after you have covered the syllabus for each subject, aim is to learn something along the way not memorize, pass the exams then forget.

6) Be punctual and act professionally from a young age, refrain from acting childish, or exhibiting a risky behavior, keep fit, eat well and chase girls.....

7) Do a research on what each school offers, number of sittings for the exams, experience of the instructors, type of aircraft they use weigh the pros and cons and compare them to what you thing it's best for you (everyone has different abilities and capacity, don't do what others do, do what's best for you), an integrated course might be good for someone who has a truck full of money, or isn't a punctual or disciplined enough, modular schools on the other hand offer this and this but not this.. it's up to you to decide, just do not get in the trap and choosing a school purely because they advertise that they will get you a job eventually once you finish your training, if it's one thing I hate about the aviation industry is that training organizations just want your money and they are masters in marketing, you need facts and guarantees which no one will give you unfortunately. Chase quality and consistency, find one school that offers all modules if you decide to go modular or at least most of them.

8) If it takes you longer to complete your training as it happened to me, use this to your advantage, if it's one thing I believe has helped me during my training was the bad weather, and lack of funds to continues plus a few other things. These setbacks gave me the time to revise, stay at home read ahead of the syllabus, and keep my knowledge up to standard and fresh both for my skills tests, and interview in the long run, nothing goes wasted, the more effort you put the more the chances are to succeed. Success might not come immediately, but eventually will come, after you are done with your training, and it's time to to apply for an airlines for a job, keep revising, if you have the money invest into other books which will help you in passing the technical assessment of an airline. I recommend "Handling the big jets", "Get a Head for the sky" and "EASA Professional Pilot Studies"
Also some other books I found useful particularly for my IR training are "Air Pilot't Manual Radio Nav and Instrument flying" , " Never get Lost" and ICAO DOC 8168 Vol 1

9) Last but not least, do not expect any instructor whether in theory or actual flying to spoon feed you. You need to be prepare on your own, they will teach you the bear minimum, it's your job to revise at home before and be prepared for the next day, once you star training, it's always nice to know that until you get the first type rating on your cpl, you got no life...(It really helps if you start training with that mind set, these should clear the lamb from the sheep)... Also, one you get your CPL, consider saving money to keep all of your rating valid, and interview might come days, months or years after you obtained your CPL, and usually it comes in a very short notice with people panicking and going for an assessment totally unprepared, so plan your training wisely from the start and be prepared for the long run(validations) .

Now I know I keep repeating what other people have said in this forum, but I felt the need to contribute into this matter as now it's the worst time in history for someone to get involved in aviation and still no one should discourage others, this is my personal view, and I believe all the points I mentioned above plus my past experience will greatly help people who really want to fly some day.

I apologize if the order of my post is confusing, I did the best I could to make it as clear and as understandable as possible.

gpiper

An interesting read which demonstrated that you indeed have the ‘bug’ to succeed.

Your 4) Whilst there are some individuals who are quite mature aged 18, this is generally not the case.
Going into higher education prior to flying is all part of becoming a more rounded individual, and is probably not to be discouraged.
After all even with a degree, you have 40+ years of potential flying ahead.

Your 6) Time keeping is a critical aspect of professional flying. A small measure of OCD probably helps? Arriving in the crew room a minute before Report Time will not endear you to your Captain for the day. Word will spread.
Generally speaking arriving before the Captain gives the impression of being keen & eager. Apply common sense to this issue.

As for flight school, if you are not (at least) five minutes early,
YOU ARE LATE.

I shall refrain from making comment about ...”and chase girls”...
as this comes under the heading of ‘shark infested custard’.

parkfell

thank you for taking the time to read my post and reply,

indeed with (4) what I think is that it's not black or white, each individual should weigh the pros and cons of going into higher education, and be aware of what they are about to embark in.
I my self made years ago the decision to join higher education purely for obtaining a degree which would help me eventually to secure a job as a first officer faster, never though about the part of becoming a more rounded individual, but it is something that an 18 year old should consider.
It did not wok out, while it was a reputable university(again another reason why I decided to join uni), in the end I just didn't like the course and financially it was a dead end, it was either the one or the other.

Bottom line is that I agree with you, it's just down to each individual to decide what it is best for them, a distance learning course after getting a job is always available but I can tell you with
much certainty the university life years are irreplaceable, fun and they only come once...

As for the rest, you summed it pretty well!

Hello guys,
I have just turned 18 and I'm in last year of HS in my country which is Poland. That means I am just now in a position I have to make decicions regarding my future. I've been decided on going for it for a long time. I was about to go to the college that would make it possible for me to get ATPL frozen. However due to a situation with the global pandemic I am not sure anymore if I should keep going. What are your predictions regarding aviation overall? Is it going to be reborn like a phoenix and if yes when?

Or is it gonna fall to the very bottom and there will be no job even in like 5-6 years, especially for a possible newbies in the industry, freshly became pilots? Shall I look for something else facing those kind of doubts in future like no job after difficulties of aquiring license?

Thanks for any future answers

Haven't read this entire lengthy thread, but I'll throw in my experience. Finished my ratings at age 30, retired 10 years ago as captain on the 747-400. Flight instructed for a year and 600 hours, flew piston twin charter 3 years and 2500 hours, corporate jets for 10 years/4000 hours, then 121. Had the 4-year degree.