Dear Dream, I am a Doctor.

My next door neighbor used to fly a Piper Aztec for a medical research company in the early 1970s.
He was offered a job as BAC 1-11 first officer with Court Line out of Luton.
He did the job for about 18 months, until they went bust.
He was well and truly sick and tired of it at that point.
So he went back to his true passion, which was medical research.
He said “If he ever misses it, he’ll sit in a dark closet with a 15 watt light bulb all night”

No job is a ‘dream job’.
A dream is just that, - a nighttime fantasy.
And we all know what trouble that can lead to, if we live them out.

Dear JamesPEM

I’m going to assume you are British?
You use the term ‘airline cadet’, which apart from Jet Blue, isn’t used much over there.

The way my daughter is going to do it is.
CTI professional flight training in Millington Tennessee. (Not Ft Lauderdale Florida).
You get 200 hours of DA20 for private, Cherokee Arrow for Commercial, and DA42 for I/R - Multi for $50,000.
Housing is $500 a month.
Then ATPL writtens from home with BGS.
Then any DA42 school like FTA at Shoreham or Diamond in Sweden.
It’s not the cheapest way, but currently I think it is the best for us.
I’m planning on it costing me £70,000 in all.

If your American, then just go spend the 50 Grand and get a job across the river at West Memphis, Arkansas with McNeeley Air Charter on Shorts 330’s. They fly baby chickens from Mexico to Canada. Phew! It stinks, but it’s a great starter job.

Dear Heimdal.

Being Danish/German leads to an obvious first choice of Mersek (Star Air).
You would fly Cargo Boeing 767s from Koln.
I do not know what experience level they would require.
But you won’t get anywhere by not asking and getting to know the company and it’s people.


As a way to get there from where you are.
It, like most things comes down to money.
What I would recommend you do is ‘hour build’ to 150+ hours in the United States.
An American instrument rating would be time we’ll spent.
Then pass the 14 exams thru on-line schooling.
Then go to FTE Jerez for their ‘flight deck plus’ program for experienced PPL holders if you didn’t get the US I/R.
If you get a US Comm/Inst/Multi you can do a conversion at Fly in Spain also at Jerez.

Good luck.

Dear lee1321
Take me to the sky.

What I would recommend you do is go to the United States.
All you need is a US PPL and 150+ hours.
You don’t need a fancy school.
There are thousands of airports, and nearly everyone has an aircraft for rent and an instructor.
Then do your EASA ATPL written exams.
Followed by a course at any number of fine schools.
You mentioned Scandinavia and Ireland.
Diamond in Sweden is very good, as is Atlantic in Ireland.

Forget all the nonsense of MPLs, and schools with airline affiliation.
You know if you have what it takes and the determination to make it happen.
You do not want to spend your life in the Middle East.

^^^ what he said.
Definitely get an FAA IR. Then you can do a CBIR in 10 hours instead of 45/55.
Consider getting some multi time as well. It'll cost a bit more, but it's a really good insurance policy: just in case you don't get straight onto a jet there are still piston twin jobs in the UK, and if you've got 30 hours pic you can become an MEP CRI.

Naturally 'Rudestuff' is absolutely correct.
But the reason I do not recommend a US Instrument Rating for everybody is 'money'.
I am strongly opposed to borrowing money for anything other than the ‘big final push’.
If you have 'loads of dosh' then by all means go get a US PPL and an I/R.
If you want some Multi time too, then you may as well go get ‘The Full Monty’, of a US Comm/Inst/Multi, and then do a conversion to EASA.

But I know that many people and their families are not made of money.
So whilst I absolutely disagree with borrowing any money up to the point you have a US PPL and 150+ hours and ATPL writtens passed.
I realize that for some, going cap in hand to the bank, is a matter of fact to finish off.
I think it would be easier to show the bank manager the brochure for a CPL - IR - ME course, and your US PPL, and log book with 150+ hours in it, and your ATPL written exams passed.

What I recommend people do is go to the Stapleford Flight Center web site and copy down the requirements for their courses. Make sure your hour building experience matches up with their requirements, with so many hours of night flying and cross country time. Remember you will have to comply with EASA requirements not FAA as they differ. Make all your hour building count double, by doing your cross country’s at night. Many places charge less if you do your flying at ‘off peak’ times.

Why am I not getting any replies from the above people I tried to help?

@button push, sorry for not replying, not checking here daily. Thank you for your contribution.

You mention Maersk/Star because it is a Danish company operating from Cologne. This is a good starting point for discussion, for is it really THAT simple? Me being affiliated to those two countries and speaking the languages, plus being a "just good enough" pilot earns you a seat? Pardon me for finding that thought connection a bit simplistic - I stand to be corrected.

On the other hand, IF it is really true that non-flying factors like languages will really seriously help, then that would be good to know. Aptitude and effort is for me to come up with. Other considerations, especially those that will help overcome the age problem in my case, are more on the employers side. What are those considerations?

Heimdal: I tried to send you a private message, as I’d much rather keep this off-line.
I am in no way associated with Star Air, so I can not speak for them.
I have however spoken with several Maersk/Star pilots during their B720 and B727 days.

But from my obersvations of this business, it’s not what you know, but who you know.
You get anywhere and everywhere in this world be putting your best foot forward, and trying harder than anybody else.
It involves making contacts and communicating with people within the targeted organization.
Pushy people soon get shot down as fake.
It’s a subtle line between aggressive and a pain.
First decide what business you’d like to be in.
If night freight isn’t your thing, then don’t look there, other than as a stepping stone.
With Star, you have two point of contact to try.
Being dual citizen puts you at a good advantage, as does being female.
But it’s not golden, nothing is.
Head office in Denmark, and the flight operations in Germany, both should receive equal attention.

Now I don’t know you, or what your people skills are like.
But I know ‘men of a certain age’, who would be highly attracted to a female pilot in her early 40s.
Now if you look like an East German Olympic shot putter or hammer thrower, maybe not so much.
But if you are attractive and have an amicable personality people will talk to you.

I am certainly not saying you can go from PPL to B767.
Although the son of a friend did go from (f)ATPL to German night cargo B757.
But I am absolutly sure you can go from CPL to any number of the other smaller regional feeder cargo operators that operate from Cologne nightly.
It’s been many, many years since I have been there, so I don’t know who operates what today.
But I seem to remember seeing many German F27s, Croatian ATR 42s, Swedish ATPs, Islandic B737s, Turkish A300s, British Heralds, A300s, Electras, and B737s.
And once your on ‘that side’ of the fence, it’s easy to waltz into their flight operations and start talking.
Seek out their fellow females, and make them your new best friend.
Join women’s professional pilot organizations.

You target an industry, and you network within that industry.
The same strategy is applicable to any other market and industry.
Don’t let anything stop you, or stand in your way from achieving what you want out of this life.
Your time is now.

Hi,
There are pros and cons of both really. If you opt for the MPL route you have more security of obtaining a job at the end compared to the standard White Tail Route as its sometimes referred to. But, have in mind that you are usually bonded to the airline (Qatar) for x many years and also you will have to do UK ATPL exams if you wanted to come back. If you do the standard ATPL route you have more freedom on who you want to work for, but you will then have to find a job after you have spent a lot of money for your training.

A bit of advice from me would be that you are choosing a career and there are many ways to get there. However, there are some options or routes you take which the career will also dramatically affect your lifestyle. For example if you chose the quatar MPL you would have to live there and would your views and lifestyle fit in with theirs?

Feel free to pm me if you have any other questions.

Curious to know if anyone has any advice on schools, that teach ATPL theory based in Europe that accept non- EU students.

I'm on the verge of completing my PPL training and would like to continue and get my ATPL theory exams done so then I can move on to securing a CPL/IR/ME but that's not offered where I am. Basically looking for a school that will assist in obtaining a student visa so I can study + sit my exams.

Everyone seems to recommend Bristol Ground School but they don't qualify for a student visa according to their site.

-------------

First of all I sincerely hope I am posting in the right place. I have looked around and this seems to be the most fitting place. Apologies if I am mistaken. This is going to be a lengthy post so I will TL;DR main points on the end of it. I understand that there may have been many other people asking the same question of 'how does one become a pilot' but I feel like I could find some comfort if I was to ask it personally.

About me
I am 19 years of age (turning 20 on the 17th), have zero experience in flying and have never done any training courses or even touched on flying. I have wanted to fly for the longest I can remember and it's truly the only career that the thought of excites me.I had searched for information but the more I searched to more I felt like I became tangled in the information I read so at the age of 14 my mom agreed to take me to an open day that Virgin Atlantic (If I remember correctly. It was a long time ago) had. I don't remember much of what went on if I'm completely honest. The only thing that stuck was when the person ,who took the lecture, announced the cost of training. This is the point where I turned to look at my mother who had the 'Just forget it' look on her face. I looked for ins and outs to get around finance but was clueless. On top of that my mom, her bf and my sister didn't seem to be too supportive mainly due to my academic history. I had obtained C's and B's in GCSE's (without any revision) failed A level due to lack of interest and have only obtained a level 2 qualification in electrical engineering, chef cookery and have a life guarding certificate (What a discrepancy, I know). Essentially I have wasted my years of free education. I've always been the kind of person to really have to want something to work for it. Further more I am a very hands on kind of guy meaning sitting with a pen and piece of paper with study books was literal torture for me.

I am now at a point where I really want to start my career and independent life but I'm sat here asking what I'm going to do with my life and quite frankly feel like a bit of a failure. Searching for job after job I just can't help but think about getting my hands on Pilot training. Am I completely hopeless at this stage? Is it worth trying or should I just accept I would be out of my depth in even wishing to become a Commercial Airline Pilot?

TLDR Is it possible to do Airline Pilot Training and to become an Airline Pilot with no (or a tiny/irrelevant)academic history and if so how would I go about it?
-Finance is an issue. My family will be hesitant to support me financially as I have lost their trust
-What routes are there to take in order to get training
-What can I expect during training and within the industry? I have heard people say that the industry is 'drying up' I don't entirely see how that is accurate but regardless, they say it's not worth the pressure as a new Pilot as it will be a lot of stress especially so when starting out.
- I have shoddy eyesight. I have read wearing glasses is fine but Pilots must have multiple spare's at all time. Is laser eye surgery an option and how would it fare with an aeromedical examination?

Any help on the matter would be much appreciated. Sorry if I come across very naive. It's what I'm here for and will take on board any help I am given.

Dude, you've got your whole life ahead of you. You can make anything happen. Of course you won't realise that until much later. Make a plan and write it down, then stick to it. You don't need any qualifications apart from those required for licencing, but if you want A levels - then go and get them.

Your biggest hurdle is going to be money. Beg, borrow, steal - then use it wisely, go modular. For many it means getting a job or two or three, then working for years to make it happen. (Obviously it won't happen because you'll want to go out and spend it all like every other 20 year old.) Prove me wrong. Stay living at home as long as possible and get the best paying job you can, then go to your local flying school and work weekends for flight time. After a year you'll have your PPL. Get some credit cards for day to day purchases and pay them off every month (to build your credit history) - I would suggest work and save to get your first hundred hours, and only consider borrowing anything after you've passed your ATPL exams.
Everything you want is perfectly achieveable from nothing in 5 years. If you're lucky, you'll get hired straight away. If not, you might have to wait for the next wave to come along. It's not easy, but if you WANT to be a pilot you will be one.

Listen to rudestuff.

Firstly, you are what you say you are. So if you say you are a failure, then you are a failure. If you say you are a success, then you are a success. We can’t help you validate your self worth, only you can do that.

Before, you do anything, save yourself a lot of time, money and effort and go see if you can get a Class 1 medical. You won’t be a comercial pilot without it.

Contrary to popular believe, pilots aren’t supermen. You don’t need to be Einstein to fly a plane. You just need to be dedicated and determined to do the study and get through the training. Generally, GCSE level education with a good understanding of mathematics should be enough to get you through training.

The industry isn’t winding up, nor is it ‘not what it used to be’. There are a lot of old farts who look back to their youth with rose tinted glasses and reminisce about what it was like to be a pilot in their day, often leaving out all the downsides. You will come across a lot of negativity in this industry and people who will tell you to not bother being a pilot. However, if you really want it you will stay focused and cut through the negativity.

As for how, when or where to train. Well that is up to you to decide. You need to research, research, research and pick the best route for YOU. All I can say is you don’t need anywhere near £100k to get your fATPL.

Good luck!

Hello all.
A 15 year old from Kuwait (yes that part of the world) aspiring to be a pilot (military fighter, transport/commercial airline transport pilot). Due to the whole "We don't have enough planes fiasco" going on in my Air Force, I'm currently looking into going into one of 3 airlines, Kuwait, Qatar, or Emirates. Currently, education-wise, have a steady 3.0 GPA average, finished Algebra iI, biology, taking pre-calc, chemistry, calculus, and physics in the coming years.

I speak both Arabic and English fluently, and have been playing flight sims for around 2 years now. Now my question is, what should I do? Apparently, the only way Kuwait Airways accept anyone is if they go through their own program for CPL/ATP/MOC, however I've been given an opportunity to start my PPL now, and not sure whether to take it or not. Also will be looking for a bachelor's degree in college/uni, and unsure whether to go a "normal" Uni, or a Uni with a flight degree/program, again this conflicting with possibly going into Kuwait airways. Lastly, going to see if I can be an airline pilot in the first place by going for a EASA Class 1, but any tips from now would still be appreciated.
Thanks all!

Tips in general on the best way to enter the aviation industry would be great as I get so lost from all the different approaches you can take into the industry.

Hi guys!

EASA license is one of the most respectful licenses in the world. For European guys here's no question-you have money, find a school, go and later with lots of problems find a job. Looks not easy however for not EU resident it looks impossible. So here we go. Where is this place in the world where EASA license with approx 250 hours will be enough to be hired at least on Cessna Caravan?

So I know one company in Indonesia it's Susi Air, everybody knows it. They're still hiring, the company is great and reviews as well. I think there's a possibility to find probably other two or three. It's only Indonesia. In my opinion, it's the only country where I'm with EASA license will fit the requirements and with huge "maybe" find a job on Caravan.

Latin America and Caribians they're hiring with some hours(min 500) and they prefer FAA. So no jobs there.

Africa? Who knows something about Africa? Bush pilot? You know I think it's a great experience for low hours pilot. If you know something about this continent feel free to respond.

The Middle East? They're full of Captains who have hours on 777 rather than Cessna

Let's return to Europe... And to be exactly correct to Eastern Europe. I read some topics about SmartLynx and Avion Express, not good reviews. But still, I'm asking about Africa as a great place to start, that's why Baltic states like paradise in the world SmartLynx has an opportunity to join them without EU residency. I will have to pay for TR and MAYBE they will hire me. The question is - is this only one company which has this requirement about citizenship or they're many of them, at least I know only one.

Price-60K for fATPL is max and max 20K for possible TR. What do think about it? Try luck or shut up?

Grateful for answers! Have a nice day!

Glad to meet someone who is also looking for a trustworthy flight school with FAA CPL program. I've done a little work about this by reading on PPRuNe. It looks like Flightsafety Academy on Florida is a good choice, because several users in this forum both says this school is one of the best in US. What I have not know is the cost compare.
Maybe we could find friends to go to the same school together.

Hi all,

Forgive me if some/all of this information has already been discussed before.

I am 31 from London (UK), and have deiced I want to learn how to fly.

I'm aware it costs a fair amount to train, and that to be a commercial pilot is much more expensive than just the standard PPL.

So, what I wanted to ask is, if one had only the PPL, is it possible to earn an income with this level? If not, what is the minimum requirement to be able to earn from this skill? Do you have to have the full ATPL (which seems to cost a crazy amount of money, even through a modular route, with no guarantee of a job after).

My questions are based around being able to recover the costs of training, and actually being able to enjoy this without it draining a hole in my pocket continuously. So it appears the only way to do that, is to be employed as a pilot.

Does anyone know the most cost effective way to become a pilot and earn an income from it? Wether that be training in different countries etc.
And at what level can someone start to earn?

Sorry if these questions are quite broad, I'm new to this.

Thanks for reading.

To earn a salary from flying you need to have a minimum of a Commercial Pilot’s Licence (CPL). This can then be teamed with other ratings to be able to earn money. A good example of an ‘entry level’ job would be a Flight Instructor for which you just need the CPL and to meet hours requirements. Flight instructing can be done part time and indeed many do part time instructing as a hobby job.

I’m judging by your post is that you already have a career and are looking to do this as a hobby. My advice would be to get your PPL first and then worry about whether you want to earn a living from it. Aviation is something you need to love, and a quick scan around this forum will show that earning a living from flying aeroplanes comes with a great deal of work and personal sacrifice, so you need to know that it is definitely something you would give everything for.

Its spring now, so you should be able to get a good few hours under your belt before the weather turns bad again. You mentioned other countries; there are hundreds of flying schools in the US and the med that benefit from year round weather and cheaper hourly rates. Perhaps taking a month off work and doing an intensive PPL course would work for you. The more you fly, the better you will be able to answer your own question. Whichever way you cut it, flying is always going to burn a hole in your pockets so you need to be prepared for that reality. Only when you have a secure flying job will the tide of cash start to turn the other way.

Yes, on your way you need to clear your goals in your head... you want to be a hobby pilot, flying from A to B, for fun, or you want to do this for earning money?

As a Private Pilot, you can take passengers but do only cost share, not earning from it. During a CPL course you learn the aspects of commercial flying and taking responsibility as a "professional" pilot.
But if you love flying - you will see in your ppl course, after some experience you can think of becoming a pro, but starting with ATPL theory, not CPL.

Good evening, all!

I am a 15 year old student working towards my PPL and I would appreciate some advice to achieve my ultimate ambition of becoming a medium/long haul pilot for a large airline.

Currently, I am about to start flying a light aircraft(possibly a PA-28) and have started studying the 7 books. From here I would like to get an IFR rating, multi-engine rating and frozen ATPL.

Are these advisable ratings to carry out and are there any other recommended? Also, does anyone have a rough estimate as to what these ratings would cost, I am aware of the PPL costs?

I am also hoping to get a Class 1 medical at Gatwick before I "waste" any money.

With regards to current experience, I have been flying 7 times with the RAFAC in the Grob Tutor 115E and have four hours in the back of an R44.

This week, I also carried out work experience at Humberside Airport and was able to get a better picture of the industry which greatly enthused me, working with ATC, various aerospace companies and fire crews. Fortunately, I got to visit Eastern Airways which seems like a good airline to gain hours and experience, as they have employed pilots with hours as little as 200!

At school, I am currently doing well studying for my GCSEs which are: Higher Maths, Triple Science, English, Spanish, Computer Science, Electronics and Geography. For my A-Levels I am hoping to take: Maths, Physics and Geography.

Are these good options and will it be necessary to get a degree?

Could I please have some advice as to what to do next and a good path as to becoming a commercial pilot. Preferably at a lower cost than £100,000 but I appreciate that it doesn't come cheap!

Kind regards,
Ellis.

Go to Yorkshire Flight School at Breighton. They will look after you for the first part and save you some cash along the way.