Euro american school of aviation suspended
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I am currently in Florida, with my M1 Visa, and have already paid a few thousands towards my PPL. Havent started my training yet. Since I do not trust they can train me towards a EASA license, I think I'm going to cut my losses and fly FAA PPL with them, and then hour build and convert. I do not believe I will see a penny of my money if I request a refund.
I think this way I would lose the least, hour building the required hours for EASA conversion is not a massive problem for me.
I think this way I would lose the least, hour building the required hours for EASA conversion is not a massive problem for me.
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Im here until end of August, so I hope I have atleast time to come out with a FAA PPL. I was dumb and paid a bit too much in advance before finding out about the suspension (they only told about it after directly asking about it).
mjustiniano, are you in Ormond area now?
mjustiniano, are you in Ormond area now?
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Originally Posted by dera
Im here until end of August, so I hope I have atleast time to come out with a FAA PPL. I was dumb and paid a bit too much in advance before finding out about the suspension (they only told about it after directly asking about it).
This applies to any School in the US.
You are the customer and have that right. It is your money at the end of the day.
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I'd have thought they'd have been on here to say something. They used to have an account under the user name of "OBA". In my opinion this situation is terrible.
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HELP!!!
Can someone please help me, I booked my slot in May and I've just been told that the training licence has been revoked at Fly EASA, I've already booked the flights and got my visa, can someone advise me on what to do, can I transfer to another flight school e.g. Pan Am or EFT or can I do my training in FAA and then covert to JAA/EASA at a later date?
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Surely you can't be seriously considering training there for the FAA.
You can convert but it requires CAA authority as it is an Article 8 conversion under EASA - so you can't just pitch up at a school and convert anymore under the new laws.
The bigger problem will be the low quality of training they are known for and the conversion will become expensive.
I think Pan Am has the grand total of one EASA Instructor if that helps and they do all their training FAA then convert people so I'm thinking Pan Am won't be able to help you with your original plan.
EFT - you'll be praying for a cancellation at such short notice.
You can convert but it requires CAA authority as it is an Article 8 conversion under EASA - so you can't just pitch up at a school and convert anymore under the new laws.
The bigger problem will be the low quality of training they are known for and the conversion will become expensive.
I think Pan Am has the grand total of one EASA Instructor if that helps and they do all their training FAA then convert people so I'm thinking Pan Am won't be able to help you with your original plan.
EFT - you'll be praying for a cancellation at such short notice.
Last edited by BigGrecian; 12th Jul 2013 at 18:56.
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I disagree about the quality of training. So far the level of training I have received has been very good. I have been flying with KR and CD, and have nothing but good to say about them.
There is generally a very bad mood amongst the students in the school at the moment with the EASA issue, but nobody has said anything negative about the level of training or most people who work here.
If you come over, the level of training will be good, the availability of planes is excellent, but only expect to come out with a FAA PPL.
Pay a bit more and do it on the PA28s, the Cessnas are godawful.
For conversion, some people who came for JAA and only got FAA, are going to Naples who apparently are doing the conversion after resitting all written exams, doing a few hours, and a skill test. I do not know the exact ins and outs of this though. Apparently the cost is somewhere between 1-2kUSD. I decided to "downgrade" to FAA, I decided that is the option that gives me the least stress about things.
There is generally a very bad mood amongst the students in the school at the moment with the EASA issue, but nobody has said anything negative about the level of training or most people who work here.
If you come over, the level of training will be good, the availability of planes is excellent, but only expect to come out with a FAA PPL.
Pay a bit more and do it on the PA28s, the Cessnas are godawful.
For conversion, some people who came for JAA and only got FAA, are going to Naples who apparently are doing the conversion after resitting all written exams, doing a few hours, and a skill test. I do not know the exact ins and outs of this though. Apparently the cost is somewhere between 1-2kUSD. I decided to "downgrade" to FAA, I decided that is the option that gives me the least stress about things.
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Your not in any position to judge the standard - as you have nothing to compare it too. Ask around in your home country about the reputation and read PPrune and you'll then have something to compare it to - the general comments are not positive - think about this why do the majority of their students not return for the CPL - other than not being approved?
Here in lies the next problem - did Naples get the written authority from the UK CAA under Article 8 of part FCL?
You can't just walk into a school and do a conversion anymore you must have written permission from a national aviation authority. Without this your training is worthless.
They may have just jumped from one school which is suspended - to one which is not equipped and upto date on the EASA regulations to provide the type of training required and then get their licence application rejected at a later date.
They should have learnt their lesson and had some personal responsibility but I'm prepared to bet otherwise....I'm prepared to bet they'll be able to add a second school to the list of those that took their money for providing a service they can't legally provide.
For conversion, some people who came for JAA and only got FAA, are going to Naples who apparently are doing the conversion after resitting all written exams, doing a few hours, and a skill test. I do not know the exact ins and outs of this though. Apparently the cost is somewhere between 1-2kUSD. I decided to "downgrade" to FAA, I decided that is the option that gives me the least stress about things.
You can't just walk into a school and do a conversion anymore you must have written permission from a national aviation authority. Without this your training is worthless.
They may have just jumped from one school which is suspended - to one which is not equipped and upto date on the EASA regulations to provide the type of training required and then get their licence application rejected at a later date.
They should have learnt their lesson and had some personal responsibility but I'm prepared to bet otherwise....I'm prepared to bet they'll be able to add a second school to the list of those that took their money for providing a service they can't legally provide.
Last edited by BigGrecian; 12th Jul 2013 at 23:11.
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People are seriously considering travelling despite what has been said. People need to have a serious think. Is it more cost effective to forfeit the cancellation fee. Or is it better to go over pay all your money, sit an intensive course for a potentially worthless piece of paper. Honestly I do worry.
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Your not in any position to judge the standard - as you have nothing to compare it too. Ask around in your home country about the reputation and read PPrune and you'll then have something to compare it to - the general comments are not positive - think about this why do the majority of their students not return for the CPL - other than not being approved?
I'm far from an apologist here, I do not agree at all with the way they have handled this, and I am a victim of this myself as well. But so far anyone who actually is here at the moment whom I've talked with has been happy with the instructors and other ground staff.
As I said, I made the decision to do the FAA PPL, it was not what I came here for, and its pretty darn far from ideal. But after weighing pros and cons, I ended up in a conclusion that it is the best way to get out of this sh*t mess I ended up in.
Anyone considering traveling should do the same consideration, and act accordingly. I was already knee deep in non-refundable travel plans (I rented a beach condo for this project) when this poop hit the fan, and after getting over the initial disappointment(disappointment being a mild word here), I cannot fault the actual product, which is flight training.
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Is it more cost effective to forfeit the cancellation fee
I've heard their contract is 20+ pages but does it really say - "If we are unable to provide the course you booked on you will still forefeit the deposit and any costs paid" - I hope not!
Take it up with your credit card, or get a lawyer - this is an easy win - there is no reason for anyone to lose any money at the school and a good lawyer should be able to get any deposits on housing etc back for you.
Last edited by BigGrecian; 12th Jul 2013 at 23:18. Reason: Can't spell this late at night.
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I've heard their contract is 20+ pages but does it really say - "If we are unable to provide the course you booked on you will still forefeit the deposit and any costs paid" - I hope not!
I had to sue them to try to get my money back (there is no court order yet). Of course, I'm not the only one it such situation. I'm afraid the same will happen to those who trusted Euro American School of Aviation with their money. You'll have to sue them to get your money back
Hope you decide to do so, even though you would have to do it in another country. Best of luck!
From the UK CAA press office:
EASA SUSPENDS FLIGHT TRAINING SCHOOL
The UK Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) has been informed by the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) that it suspended the pilot training approval of Euro American School of Aviation, based in Florida, (UK/FTO-226) on the 19 April 2013. The suspension of the approval means that the school cannot provide theoretical knowledge instruction or flight training towards the issue of any European pilots licence, rating or certificate from that date forward.
Student pilots receiving theoretical knowledge and/or flight training from Euro American School of Aviation for the issue of an EU Part-FCL licence, rating or certificate are advised that:
·if the student intends to apply to the UK for a pilot licence, rating or certificate the UK CAA is unable to accept any theoretical knowledge training or flight training provided to them by Euro American School of Aviation after the 19 April 2013;
·if the student intends to apply to any other country for a Part-FCL licence, rating or certificate they should contact that State for advice.
Student pilots whose state of licence issue is to be the UK CAA and who wish to continue their training towards gaining an EU licence, rating or certificate, must continue their training at another school that is permitted to provide that training. To retain credit for the training received at Euro American School of Aviation on or before 19 April 2013 the students must request the transfer of their training records from Euro American School of Aviation inc to their chosen alternative school. For more information on transferring training records please see CAP 804, Section 4, Part L, Appendix 3, Page 1 (p.365)www.caa.co.uk/cap804
As well as needing to change their training provider, applicants for an EU licence, rating or certificate must also ensure that all required theoretical knowledge examinations, training and testing are valid, and undertaken within the relevant time limits.
The UK Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) has been informed by the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) that it suspended the pilot training approval of Euro American School of Aviation, based in Florida, (UK/FTO-226) on the 19 April 2013. The suspension of the approval means that the school cannot provide theoretical knowledge instruction or flight training towards the issue of any European pilots licence, rating or certificate from that date forward.
Student pilots receiving theoretical knowledge and/or flight training from Euro American School of Aviation for the issue of an EU Part-FCL licence, rating or certificate are advised that:
·if the student intends to apply to the UK for a pilot licence, rating or certificate the UK CAA is unable to accept any theoretical knowledge training or flight training provided to them by Euro American School of Aviation after the 19 April 2013;
·if the student intends to apply to any other country for a Part-FCL licence, rating or certificate they should contact that State for advice.
Student pilots whose state of licence issue is to be the UK CAA and who wish to continue their training towards gaining an EU licence, rating or certificate, must continue their training at another school that is permitted to provide that training. To retain credit for the training received at Euro American School of Aviation on or before 19 April 2013 the students must request the transfer of their training records from Euro American School of Aviation inc to their chosen alternative school. For more information on transferring training records please see CAP 804, Section 4, Part L, Appendix 3, Page 1 (p.365)www.caa.co.uk/cap804
As well as needing to change their training provider, applicants for an EU licence, rating or certificate must also ensure that all required theoretical knowledge examinations, training and testing are valid, and undertaken within the relevant time limits.
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Does anyone know the actual reason for getting there approval removed?
I notice as well that it wasn't the CAA that pulled it either it was someone else from EASA.
I wonder what FOI request to the CAA would bring in relation to the number of complaints about the place without anything being done.
I notice as well that it wasn't the CAA that pulled it either it was someone else from EASA.
I wonder what FOI request to the CAA would bring in relation to the number of complaints about the place without anything being done.
I notice as well that it wasn't the CAA that pulled it either it was someone else from EASA.
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Anyone who wants to discuss transfer back to a EASA ATO crediting their pre-19 April training is most welcome to drop me a pm.
Last edited by Cows getting bigger; 15th Jul 2013 at 19:28.
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I do think that this is the start of many. Compliance with the new EASA regs is something that has been brought up many times, and as it stands at the moment many of the schools in the UK with either a RTF approval will find it hard to comply with the new regs. A survey posted in "the other place" showed that over 40% of UK TF schools were NOT planning to continue when the new regs come in. The FAA regs are far less demanding. This will have a real effect on the training scene.
In relation to students loosing money, whilst I have do feel their pain, the schools whether in the UK or USA are not having an easy time of it. Dropped into one school recently to renew my IR and was told that they had lost over £9000 recently with people flying and then not paying. They were thinking about starting a policy of you must have paid £250 upfront before you fly.
One guy had done 5 hours at one school- paid with a dodgy card, gone to another school and done the same, and then had done it a third time to him. Result was three schools out of pocket to tune of the best part of £3000!.
I am not defending EASA, but just saying that there are two sides to it all. Often when a school goes down the pan it is not just the students that lose, but the instructors, ground staff, maint shops etc etc.
In relation to students loosing money, whilst I have do feel their pain, the schools whether in the UK or USA are not having an easy time of it. Dropped into one school recently to renew my IR and was told that they had lost over £9000 recently with people flying and then not paying. They were thinking about starting a policy of you must have paid £250 upfront before you fly.
One guy had done 5 hours at one school- paid with a dodgy card, gone to another school and done the same, and then had done it a third time to him. Result was three schools out of pocket to tune of the best part of £3000!.
I am not defending EASA, but just saying that there are two sides to it all. Often when a school goes down the pan it is not just the students that lose, but the instructors, ground staff, maint shops etc etc.
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Although it's sad for everyone involved, I think Adrian must be the only person surprised by this.
He is right though, more schools will close, thing is I'm not at all surprised they were one of the first and neither will many people be give their checkered history which more than implies they weren't up to the task and the "cheap" schools like flyEASA / OBA had no chance in the first place - as that's not what the "future" is about.
He is right though, more schools will close, thing is I'm not at all surprised they were one of the first and neither will many people be give their checkered history which more than implies they weren't up to the task and the "cheap" schools like flyEASA / OBA had no chance in the first place - as that's not what the "future" is about.
Last edited by ConcernedIR; 20th Jul 2013 at 20:42.