Pilot Training College - Florida Ops closure
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Restart in 3-2-1.........
Give it one month, and PTC will be up and running again in Cambridge. A new company with the best standards yet has training so many pilots who are flying for XYZ airlines. (this is sarcasm if you didn't realise)
Statement by the CEO will read "we are totally separate from the PTC in Ireland. We have an agreement with ABC university in Florida to provide the blah blah blah....." (ABC will not be FIT or Flight Saftey, but will be another big outfit) (this is not sarcasm - this will happen)
Watch how many people fall for it. My guess is that the UK CAA will not suspend that approval, so they will go on trading but at a different airport.
Come on people - never fall for this! And never pay upfront!
P.s. (I forgot to add): They will get a Flybe contract because flybe keep picking these training providers under the pretence of integrated training, how good it is etc..... (boring) when nobody really offers true integrated anymore. (They all have these variations which are really just modular without the flight tests.). As a result of an airline contract, many people will go there and pay up front.
Definition of stupidity - repeating the same exercise with the same method and expecting a different outcome!
Rant over!
Statement by the CEO will read "we are totally separate from the PTC in Ireland. We have an agreement with ABC university in Florida to provide the blah blah blah....." (ABC will not be FIT or Flight Saftey, but will be another big outfit) (this is not sarcasm - this will happen)
Watch how many people fall for it. My guess is that the UK CAA will not suspend that approval, so they will go on trading but at a different airport.
Come on people - never fall for this! And never pay upfront!
P.s. (I forgot to add): They will get a Flybe contract because flybe keep picking these training providers under the pretence of integrated training, how good it is etc..... (boring) when nobody really offers true integrated anymore. (They all have these variations which are really just modular without the flight tests.). As a result of an airline contract, many people will go there and pay up front.
Definition of stupidity - repeating the same exercise with the same method and expecting a different outcome!
Rant over!
Last edited by I'll Be Realistic; 5th Jul 2012 at 15:51.
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Not one bit surprised by this saga, but I do feel sorry for the trainees and their families as it looks like some will loose out, albeit as stated many times before, paying upfront is a no no.
I agree with the fact that if you're going to spend this amount of money in one transaction, you must must do your homework to whom provides the service, and even at that, there's always a risk involved.
I'd like to see PTC's breakdown as to how they can justify e85,000k on a fATPL with the majority of training in the US; a rough guess would be about e25-30,000k for the ATPL stage (if undertaken at FIT), including hour building, and the CPL course/skills test. The multi engine instrument rating might eat about e15,000k in Waterford, add in delays, more training, the unexpected, and you might, or should, have a grand total of about e50-55,000k; now here's a simple test, what's 85 minus 55, they should throw that onto the end of their compass test for interests sake!
Seems like Celtic Tiger boom Irish prices are used here, including many other companies that jumped on the band wagon, it's time to wake up folks...
I do believe, what goes around comes around, and let this be a clear and unambiguous lesson for anyone considering training with PTC in the future, do your homework and check companies like this one out before departing with hard earned, or even worse, borrowed cash.
Remember, as I read before on here, some FTO's will sell you the dream through their angelic marketing dept, be cautious with this plug.
I do hope that the trainees get some resolve and that there is minimal financial loss to them and their families.
I agree with the fact that if you're going to spend this amount of money in one transaction, you must must do your homework to whom provides the service, and even at that, there's always a risk involved.
I'd like to see PTC's breakdown as to how they can justify e85,000k on a fATPL with the majority of training in the US; a rough guess would be about e25-30,000k for the ATPL stage (if undertaken at FIT), including hour building, and the CPL course/skills test. The multi engine instrument rating might eat about e15,000k in Waterford, add in delays, more training, the unexpected, and you might, or should, have a grand total of about e50-55,000k; now here's a simple test, what's 85 minus 55, they should throw that onto the end of their compass test for interests sake!
Seems like Celtic Tiger boom Irish prices are used here, including many other companies that jumped on the band wagon, it's time to wake up folks...
I do believe, what goes around comes around, and let this be a clear and unambiguous lesson for anyone considering training with PTC in the future, do your homework and check companies like this one out before departing with hard earned, or even worse, borrowed cash.
Remember, as I read before on here, some FTO's will sell you the dream through their angelic marketing dept, be cautious with this plug.
I do hope that the trainees get some resolve and that there is minimal financial loss to them and their families.
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Thats exactly what will happen IBR! Shades of the Cabair fiasco but with a different base. I wonder whether the students will be asked to pay an additional £15K to continue!!!!!!! I am led to believe there is another school in the North West that has liquidity problems. No names no pack drill.
Last edited by PPRuNeUser0173; 6th Jul 2012 at 06:44.
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Went for an assessment day earlier on this year..Wasn't very impressed at all if I'm honest. After the assessment I was told I would hear within 3 days when my results had been ratified...didn't hear anything. Phoned them 4 times and on each occasion, i was told that I needed to speak to a certain guy, (who was never at his desk)and that he would call me back, which he didn't. Eventually got an email saying that my results were correct and i had scored high enough on the COMPASS test to be put forward to Flybe. What they failed to mention before the assessment was that i was going to have to fork out 650 euros for a medical (plus travelling expenses, so probably nearer the 1000 mark) just for them to forward my file on to Flybe and that didn't necessarily mean I'd get an interview.
Did a bit of research on the company and found that they had a few problems in the past, and a number of people certainly didn't recommend them.
They also sent me an enrolement form and on it was
"In the event of termination of training, for whatever reason, the balance of all outstanding training fees for the whole course shall become due and owing."
After reading the views of a large number of people I had already decided it was a no go, but that condition on the enrolement form was the icing on the cake. How can they charge for training you wont do and won't get the chance to do!?
I'm pleased that it worked out the way it did for me (apart from the fact i wasted money on the assessment day) for obvious reasons, but I sincerely hope those students who are unfortunate enough to be under these circumstances, find some light at the end of the tunnel and go on to become successful pilots
Did a bit of research on the company and found that they had a few problems in the past, and a number of people certainly didn't recommend them.
They also sent me an enrolement form and on it was
"In the event of termination of training, for whatever reason, the balance of all outstanding training fees for the whole course shall become due and owing."
After reading the views of a large number of people I had already decided it was a no go, but that condition on the enrolement form was the icing on the cake. How can they charge for training you wont do and won't get the chance to do!?
I'm pleased that it worked out the way it did for me (apart from the fact i wasted money on the assessment day) for obvious reasons, but I sincerely hope those students who are unfortunate enough to be under these circumstances, find some light at the end of the tunnel and go on to become successful pilots
Last edited by Jonny4988; 5th Jul 2012 at 20:26.
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Great piece posted from the link on the first page about the troubles from a student point of view.
Life as a Pilot: Pilot Training College comes to an end
Life as a Pilot: Pilot Training College comes to an end
Last edited by MUFC_fan; 5th Jul 2012 at 23:22.
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Just heard on the Irish News here that PTC received over half a million euros in Government funding over the previous 2-3 years so where has all the money gone?? They wont like that!!
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Telstar, for an airline Captain you have a rather large tendency to exaggerate! Calm down Captain.
If some of those students push on and continue the training elsewhere and then go on to pay for a type rating with an airline, they will have close to a quarter of a million euro worth of debt by the time the juice is factored in. That's a mortgage, a lifes work to pay off for most people. Unless you know something I don't?
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Originally Posted by Mad Jock
Thats not alot to be honest. Almost not enough to be even bothered to try and find out where its gone.
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Half a million not worth talking about but 85,000 is??
looks like the students are buying the PTC story
http://www.floridatoday.com/article/...-flight-school
looks like the students are buying the PTC story
http://www.floridatoday.com/article/...-flight-school
Last edited by rankace; 6th Jul 2012 at 16:09.
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Hi everyone,
This is just a terrible thing that has happened to these young people trying to become pilots and my sincere thoughts are with you.
All that i can say on this matter is that if someone owed me 100.000 euro or drachma, that owned 20 houses in carriganard in waterford which was paid for by students renting them from the "owner" .
Also the houses in dunmore east that are bought and paid for, and also the other properties around the country that are Paid for,
I would certainly go after him in the courts to secure a judgement against the person who owed me the money.
And to go on top of that the government should get a high court order on property so the students could get something back.......
I would also like to see the IAA take a good look at a certain persons logbook especially back to the point that it was rewritten and check for errors or should i say omissions,
This is just a terrible thing that has happened to these young people trying to become pilots and my sincere thoughts are with you.
All that i can say on this matter is that if someone owed me 100.000 euro or drachma, that owned 20 houses in carriganard in waterford which was paid for by students renting them from the "owner" .
Also the houses in dunmore east that are bought and paid for, and also the other properties around the country that are Paid for,
I would certainly go after him in the courts to secure a judgement against the person who owed me the money.
And to go on top of that the government should get a high court order on property so the students could get something back.......
I would also like to see the IAA take a good look at a certain persons logbook especially back to the point that it was rewritten and check for errors or should i say omissions,
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Conax,
I'm sure you are trying to make a relevant point, however, your use of the English language in your last post is atrocious. Can you please rewrite so we can try to understand what you're getting at?
No offence intended.
I'm sure you are trying to make a relevant point, however, your use of the English language in your last post is atrocious. Can you please rewrite so we can try to understand what you're getting at?
No offence intended.
Last edited by AlexanderH; 7th Jul 2012 at 10:47.
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Alaxander he looks to be having a dig at a person who has used students at the school to fund a property captal investment program. This property will not be at risk whatever happens to the school. Its quite common to be honest.
He is also implying that someone has been forging a log book.
He is also implying that someone has been forging a log book.
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The Irish pilot-training firm at the centre of a financial row that has left trainee pilots stranded in Florida said this evening it was continuing to do everything it could to source alternative training courses for its students.
Some 80 students, 34 of them Irish, paid up to €86,000 to train with the Pilot Training College (PTC), a Waterford-based flight school.
They had been receiving training in the Florida Institute of Technology (FIT), which had a contract with the Waterford school, but, due to a financial dispute, the Florida centre has stopped their training.
In a statement this evening, PTC said of the 180 students in Florida, 70 already had their training taken care of by their respective airlines.
“In relation to the remaining 110 students PTC has been in dialogue with CAE Oxford Aviation Academy over the past several days in an effort to formulate an alternative training facility for most PTC students in light of the cancellation of the training contract between PTC and the FIT,” it said.
“A detailed analysis of all student training records has been undertaken by both PTC and CAE Oxford Aviation Academy and a formula has been arrived at on a student by student basis.”
PTC said the first group of 39 students had been informed of the details of this plan and that "they would not be financially impacted by the difficulties in PTC Florida due to a credit being offered by CAE on the initial deposit amount that the students have already paid."
“The remaining 71 students have been categorised in groups depending on their stage of training and performance to date. Before the end of this week, PTC will let students know individually whether CAE Oxford Aviation Academy intends to make them an offer to continue their training. The students who receive such an offer and who intend to avail themselves of it will be invited to contact CAE Oxford Aviation Academy directly and to enter into a new training contract. This process will take a few more days to run its course,” the statement continued.
PTC said it had furnished the Irish Aviation Authority with all documentation required to confirm all training records are in order.
It added that while CAE will offer a “moderate discount” to offset part of the amount already paid for the course, “PTC recognises and deeply regrets that a number of students will incur additional costs in having their training completed as a result of the ongoing dispute between FIT and PTC”
The firm said it was doing everything possible to “mitigate any losses”
Earlier, Fianna Fáil’s transport spokesman said the Government has a “moral obligation” to ensure the Irish trainee pilots stranded in Florida can complete their training at another flight school.
Timmy Dooley said students were “still stranded in the US unsure of what to do next, having paid thousands of euro for their training”.
“These students have been put under enormous financial stress and strain over the past three weeks and they are still in the dark about what happened to the training course they paid for in the first place and what options there are for them now.”
He said the issue raised “serious questions” for the Government and the Irish Aviation Authority and it was clear that some bonding or insurance situation was needed for this type of situation.
“This is the type of issue that arises from time to time where swift Government action is necessary. Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar must clearly set out what exactly the Government is prepared to do to ensure the welfare of the students in Florida is taken care of and, if necessary, the Government should be prepared to put in place the funds needed to allow the students complete their training and reach their final qualification.”
Mr Dooley said he had raised the issue in the Dáil last Thursday and had sought clarification from the Government on a number of issues but had yet to receive a response.
Fine Gael TD for Donegal North East, Joe McHugh, said the Pilot Training College in Waterford had accepted “substantial five-figure fees” from a Donegal student pilot studying at its partner college in Florida as recently as June 14th.
“Three weeks from that date the student was informed that training was to be suspended indefinitely,” he said.
“The Pilot Training College must disclose if it was aware on June 14th that the training programme was in jeopardy. Irish student pilots have now been told that they must pay figures averaging €48,000 for four training programmes in order to continue their training with another college, despite having already paid the Pilot Training College for these courses.”
He said the student pilots deserved strong support from the Department of Transport and the Irish Aviation Authority that would take into consideration their ability to pay for fees at alternative colleges, and the costs that had arisen from their stranding in Florida.
It must also be established “very quickly” if the college would be in a position next spring to complete planned training programmes for the students upon their return to Ireland.
Mr Varadkar said it would be “a very big change in policy and a very expensive change in policy” if the Government were to pick up the bill for the trainees.
Speaking on RTÉ radio, he said the Government was doing what it could for them “within our obligations and within what we can afford”.
Some 80 students, 34 of them Irish, paid up to €86,000 to train with the Pilot Training College (PTC), a Waterford-based flight school.
They had been receiving training in the Florida Institute of Technology (FIT), which had a contract with the Waterford school, but, due to a financial dispute, the Florida centre has stopped their training.
In a statement this evening, PTC said of the 180 students in Florida, 70 already had their training taken care of by their respective airlines.
“In relation to the remaining 110 students PTC has been in dialogue with CAE Oxford Aviation Academy over the past several days in an effort to formulate an alternative training facility for most PTC students in light of the cancellation of the training contract between PTC and the FIT,” it said.
“A detailed analysis of all student training records has been undertaken by both PTC and CAE Oxford Aviation Academy and a formula has been arrived at on a student by student basis.”
PTC said the first group of 39 students had been informed of the details of this plan and that "they would not be financially impacted by the difficulties in PTC Florida due to a credit being offered by CAE on the initial deposit amount that the students have already paid."
“The remaining 71 students have been categorised in groups depending on their stage of training and performance to date. Before the end of this week, PTC will let students know individually whether CAE Oxford Aviation Academy intends to make them an offer to continue their training. The students who receive such an offer and who intend to avail themselves of it will be invited to contact CAE Oxford Aviation Academy directly and to enter into a new training contract. This process will take a few more days to run its course,” the statement continued.
PTC said it had furnished the Irish Aviation Authority with all documentation required to confirm all training records are in order.
It added that while CAE will offer a “moderate discount” to offset part of the amount already paid for the course, “PTC recognises and deeply regrets that a number of students will incur additional costs in having their training completed as a result of the ongoing dispute between FIT and PTC”
The firm said it was doing everything possible to “mitigate any losses”
Earlier, Fianna Fáil’s transport spokesman said the Government has a “moral obligation” to ensure the Irish trainee pilots stranded in Florida can complete their training at another flight school.
Timmy Dooley said students were “still stranded in the US unsure of what to do next, having paid thousands of euro for their training”.
“These students have been put under enormous financial stress and strain over the past three weeks and they are still in the dark about what happened to the training course they paid for in the first place and what options there are for them now.”
He said the issue raised “serious questions” for the Government and the Irish Aviation Authority and it was clear that some bonding or insurance situation was needed for this type of situation.
“This is the type of issue that arises from time to time where swift Government action is necessary. Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar must clearly set out what exactly the Government is prepared to do to ensure the welfare of the students in Florida is taken care of and, if necessary, the Government should be prepared to put in place the funds needed to allow the students complete their training and reach their final qualification.”
Mr Dooley said he had raised the issue in the Dáil last Thursday and had sought clarification from the Government on a number of issues but had yet to receive a response.
Fine Gael TD for Donegal North East, Joe McHugh, said the Pilot Training College in Waterford had accepted “substantial five-figure fees” from a Donegal student pilot studying at its partner college in Florida as recently as June 14th.
“Three weeks from that date the student was informed that training was to be suspended indefinitely,” he said.
“The Pilot Training College must disclose if it was aware on June 14th that the training programme was in jeopardy. Irish student pilots have now been told that they must pay figures averaging €48,000 for four training programmes in order to continue their training with another college, despite having already paid the Pilot Training College for these courses.”
He said the student pilots deserved strong support from the Department of Transport and the Irish Aviation Authority that would take into consideration their ability to pay for fees at alternative colleges, and the costs that had arisen from their stranding in Florida.
It must also be established “very quickly” if the college would be in a position next spring to complete planned training programmes for the students upon their return to Ireland.
Mr Varadkar said it would be “a very big change in policy and a very expensive change in policy” if the Government were to pick up the bill for the trainees.
Speaking on RTÉ radio, he said the Government was doing what it could for them “within our obligations and within what we can afford”.