Pilot Training College - Florida Ops closure
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Lies, lies, more lies and ONLY LIES !!!!
“PTC recognises and deeply regrets that a number of students will incur additional costs in having their training completed as a result of the ongoing dispute between FIT and PTC”
Those people are the worst liars ever seen : first they say THEY terminated the contract with FIT because FIT didn't meet their standards and didn't manage to train enough students per month ; then they recognize it's over a financial dispute that they got KICKED OUT of here.
The worst part is they say the WHOLE SCHOOL shuts its doors permanently due to a financial dispute with their partner in Florida. Hmmm couldn't they just find another one ? Just because your partner doesn't want you in their place doesn't mean you can't find a solution...
It's obvious that the heads of the company just put the whole money coming in in a bank account or real estate somewhere where the skies are blue and the sea transparent, and that the termination of the contract with FIT was the trigger to launch the final phase of the plan : shutting every door and leaving everyone with a wallet as full as Mike Edgeworth's sense of honnor.
They say they're trying to find ways of completing their students' training, but what is basically said there is "oh, look another school that might accept you if you pay another 40K€". Pathetic.
Those people are the worst liars ever seen : first they say THEY terminated the contract with FIT because FIT didn't meet their standards and didn't manage to train enough students per month ; then they recognize it's over a financial dispute that they got KICKED OUT of here.
The worst part is they say the WHOLE SCHOOL shuts its doors permanently due to a financial dispute with their partner in Florida. Hmmm couldn't they just find another one ? Just because your partner doesn't want you in their place doesn't mean you can't find a solution...
It's obvious that the heads of the company just put the whole money coming in in a bank account or real estate somewhere where the skies are blue and the sea transparent, and that the termination of the contract with FIT was the trigger to launch the final phase of the plan : shutting every door and leaving everyone with a wallet as full as Mike Edgeworth's sense of honnor.
They say they're trying to find ways of completing their students' training, but what is basically said there is "oh, look another school that might accept you if you pay another 40K€". Pathetic.
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He said the issue raised “serious questions” for the Government and the Irish Aviation Authority and it was clear that some bonding or insurance situation was needed for this type of situation.
“This is the type of issue that arises from time to time where swift Government action is necessary. Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar must clearly set out what exactly the Government is prepared to do to ensure the welfare of the students in Florida is taken care of and, if necessary, the Government should be prepared to put in place the funds needed to allow the students complete their training and reach their final qualification.”
“This is the type of issue that arises from time to time where swift Government action is necessary. Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar must clearly set out what exactly the Government is prepared to do to ensure the welfare of the students in Florida is taken care of and, if necessary, the Government should be prepared to put in place the funds needed to allow the students complete their training and reach their final qualification.”
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Probably increase the scheme of charges, giving the UK government more income to pay to the EU more cash in order that the Irish government could be bailed-out, again, as they hadn't completed enough due diligence and regulatory oversight in the first place.
I'm so proud to be a Bog Hopper.
I'm so proud to be a Bog Hopper.
Last edited by Cows getting bigger; 10th Jul 2012 at 11:03.
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Whats the betting that it sorts out the Irish students only, with any from the UK way behind !
Moral of the story: Do some
research and actually take in what you're actually hearing and seeing! A read of the contract should have been enough to put you off.
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Trainee pilots offered cost of flight home · TheJournal.ie
IAA paying for flights home.
I don't think residents of Priory Hall got so much.
IAA paying for flights home.
I don't think residents of Priory Hall got so much.
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Yeah priory hall get nothing yet rich kids get jetted home free. Let's face it thebcostnof a flight home is lessor probably less than a CPL licence issue fee or a 170A. Surely the parents could have flown their children home? I hope the flew coach!
Disagree as much as you like but feel sorry for the individual
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I feel sorry for the individuals. But there is no way the government should be helping them with tax payers money.
They made a bad investment due to lack of due diligence on their part. You make a bad investment you should carry the can. If they had looked into PTC's record, their relationship with the ASA or even took a cursory look on here they would now be in a much better position.
What's even worse these candidates decided to pay the majority of the course up front. They have my sympathy but I don't believe at a time when there are genuinely needy people in Ireland that these cadets deserve to be bailed out.
They made a bad investment due to lack of due diligence on their part. You make a bad investment you should carry the can. If they had looked into PTC's record, their relationship with the ASA or even took a cursory look on here they would now be in a much better position.
What's even worse these candidates decided to pay the majority of the course up front. They have my sympathy but I don't believe at a time when there are genuinely needy people in Ireland that these cadets deserve to be bailed out.
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They made a bad investment due to lack of due diligence on their part. You make a bad investment you should carry the can. If they had looked into PTC's record, their relationship with the ASA or even took a cursory look on here they would now be in a much better position.
Nobody warns A-level students to investigate their first choice universities to make sure there are no rumours of them going bust, nor is there any danger of it happening. If the first experience of aviation for a wannabe pilot and their parents is the open day of an organisation like Cabair or PTC, then I don't think they'll have any reason to feel suspicious. Lots of big, neatly furnished buildings, people in smart suits and more than likely at least one video involving someone in a pilot uniform walking across an apron in slow motion.
The impression of a big company, shiny expensive equipment and let's not forget that Boeing report/prophecy of enormous forecast pilot requirements. I know that my family and I were sold on the whole thing and didn't once feel any reason to question the financial affairs of the FTO. I could see why a member of the public wouldn't hand £80,000 over to the local flying club, but these integrated schools do a damn good job of making themselves look too professional and large to disappear overnight when you've no previous experience of the aviation industry. Suppose the applicant does do some research and reads bout the school on PPRuNe, who's going to trust anonymous forum contributions against the word of the real people they met at the open day? I suspect people didn't research PTC further because they felt they had all the information they needed from the open days and their website.
The real blame I suppose is the lack of transparency about these companies and the fact that aviation is just so insular. You can read on here about the mad and bad things happening in aviation- pilots paying to work, people losing thousands to dodgy schools, etc and yet how often does this stuff make an appearance in the mainstream media? The general public don't hear much at all from aviation apart from big airline profit announcements, whilst every time a banker sneezes we're all calling for resignations and payouts. I personally can't blame the wannabe who wakes up one day and decides to be a pilot for having the public perception that aviation is booming and all pilots everywhere are loaded, and thus flying schools are a safe bet as well.
My sympathies go out to those students who might be reading this having been failed by PTC, as someone who very nearly ended up taking the same risk. I can't accuse anyone of a lack of 'due diligence' when the schools are so good at making their target market think that diligence is not due in the first place.
ADC
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None of this sticking the knife in is going to help matters.
Everyone would be better putting there energy into applying pressure for a regulation change that would protect the future students investment.
Ie either a bond stumped up by the training organisation or a method of secure accounting which meant that funds could only be accessed at the point of training being given.
But then again I would suspect that would kill off a fair few schools as soon as it came in.
Everyone would be better putting there energy into applying pressure for a regulation change that would protect the future students investment.
Ie either a bond stumped up by the training organisation or a method of secure accounting which meant that funds could only be accessed at the point of training being given.
But then again I would suspect that would kill off a fair few schools as soon as it came in.
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Well in one sense it is a bad thing because in the short term we will have monumental amounts of pilots under training loosing money along with hundreds of instructors being unemployed and also loosing wages.
Long term it would be a good thing.
I wouldn't say PPL schools should all have to do it. It would be size related and linked to the amount of money the students were required to deposite. IE if a school only got you to pay as you go there would be no need for them to either submit a bond or have esquire accounts or what ever they are called.
Long term it would be a good thing.
I wouldn't say PPL schools should all have to do it. It would be size related and linked to the amount of money the students were required to deposite. IE if a school only got you to pay as you go there would be no need for them to either submit a bond or have esquire accounts or what ever they are called.
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You would hope that market forces would make that happen.
But there are sufficent people who are will to pay for the training with little chance of getting a job.
Its in the airline industrys interest to have the current oversupply to allow them to react quickly to growth and keep thier own training costs down.
In the perfect world all commercial pilots would be trained in house by an airline.
But there are sufficent people who are will to pay for the training with little chance of getting a job.
Its in the airline industrys interest to have the current oversupply to allow them to react quickly to growth and keep thier own training costs down.
In the perfect world all commercial pilots would be trained in house by an airline.
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At our school we will only accept £1000 up front for SEP type work and £2000 for ME (limiting to £1000 is a bit tight when you could blow that amount in a day). We simply do not let people pay huge amounts up front. Funnily enough, it doesn't appear to adversely affect our business.
Frankly, bonds, escrew etc is still not the long-term solution. PAYG (or thereabouts) is the only sensible way to do business.
Frankly, bonds, escrew etc is still not the long-term solution. PAYG (or thereabouts) is the only sensible way to do business.
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Judging by this excerpt from 'Waterford Today' I don't think much info will be forthcoming from PTC,either to failed students or Govn't Depts. (or indeed the irish taxpayer) Was a time you couldn't log onto an aviation based website without an advert for this company appearing,now awkward questions are being asked by various concerned parties their PR/Marketing machine has come to a grinding halt.Funny that really.
[URL="http://www.waterford-today.ie/waterford-today-news/17209-waterford-pilot-school-labour-query-17209.html"] Waterford Pilot School - Labour Query Wednesday, 11th July 2012 Labour deputies query 'drip drip'information about Waterford Pilot School
Concern about the 'drip-drip' way informationemerging from the suspended Waterford-based Pilot Training College (PTC) was expressed in a joint statement by Kilkenny and Waterford Labour Party TD's AnnPhelan and Ciara Conway.
[URL="http://www.waterford-today.ie/waterford-today-news/17209-waterford-pilot-school-labour-query-17209.html"] Waterford Pilot School - Labour Query Wednesday, 11th July 2012 Labour deputies query 'drip drip'information about Waterford Pilot School
Concern about the 'drip-drip' way informationemerging from the suspended Waterford-based Pilot Training College (PTC) was expressed in a joint statement by Kilkenny and Waterford Labour Party TD's AnnPhelan and Ciara Conway.
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It's really sad to see this happening to PTC and I feel for all those involved. I went through the same thing with Cabair last year.
The one bit of advice I can offer is to make sure before staff leave, doors shut for good is that you have a copy of your training records. Exam certificates, a completed and signed logbook, the head of training can usually help you with this.
You can take this to a school of your choosing to continue. You don't need to anywhere you don't want, even if PTC are arranging transfer there. Visit schools, make an informed choice.. and the school you choose to continue with has the ability to transfer your training over in conjunction with the IAA/CAA.
The one bit of advice I can offer is to make sure before staff leave, doors shut for good is that you have a copy of your training records. Exam certificates, a completed and signed logbook, the head of training can usually help you with this.
You can take this to a school of your choosing to continue. You don't need to anywhere you don't want, even if PTC are arranging transfer there. Visit schools, make an informed choice.. and the school you choose to continue with has the ability to transfer your training over in conjunction with the IAA/CAA.
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Firstly,
I do believe that way back in 2003/4 when PTC was born and yes I was there, that Mike Edgeworth had the belief, vision and intention to create the best Pilot Training Facility in Ireland and hopefully the world. Instead of teaching from the garden shed at the corner of the airfield as was the norm in ireland then.
This would have happened had he let the people, (some of whom were very talented) do the job he paid them for and not personally micro managed everything to the point of destruction. Ego and money then took over with the usual predictable result.
Right now it is a sad state of affairs for all the students, families and honest staff members who all worked hard to help make the promised dreams come true. At one time PTC were the best, for a few months in 2009 under the wisdom and leadership of Nick Clarke and Ciaran Doyle the team cared about the students and the training they received. Everyone involved worked hard to develop safe and professional pilots whilst still providing an unforgettable once in a lifetime experience. Any student from that time will confirm this.
….
What happened? Edgeworthless happened and again snatched defeat from the jaws of victory....
chapter 2 to follow
I do believe that way back in 2003/4 when PTC was born and yes I was there, that Mike Edgeworth had the belief, vision and intention to create the best Pilot Training Facility in Ireland and hopefully the world. Instead of teaching from the garden shed at the corner of the airfield as was the norm in ireland then.
This would have happened had he let the people, (some of whom were very talented) do the job he paid them for and not personally micro managed everything to the point of destruction. Ego and money then took over with the usual predictable result.
Right now it is a sad state of affairs for all the students, families and honest staff members who all worked hard to help make the promised dreams come true. At one time PTC were the best, for a few months in 2009 under the wisdom and leadership of Nick Clarke and Ciaran Doyle the team cared about the students and the training they received. Everyone involved worked hard to develop safe and professional pilots whilst still providing an unforgettable once in a lifetime experience. Any student from that time will confirm this.
….
What happened? Edgeworthless happened and again snatched defeat from the jaws of victory....
chapter 2 to follow
Last edited by pilotbear; 15th Jul 2012 at 19:50.
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Irish Times Monday 16th July 2012