Oxford Advice Please!
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Oxford Advice Please!
I recently attended Oxford’s skills assessment process. I failed the group exercise section of day 2 
. However, I passed all other elements with respectable scores. I have been invited to retake the said failed section within 3 months.
My psychological profile came out as ‘some concerns’ around the aspect of team leadership. I was advised it was the team leadership aspect of the group exercise that I could improve on, so these match up quite accurately.
In my opinion, I know I have team leadership in me, and could make a good shot of it when I return. However, this maybe didn’t show on the day and only have myself to blame
.
My question (finally!) is…looking to the future, will airline employers look at a failed first skills assessment negatively? Would this affect employability at the end of an APPFO course? Also I have read an article from someone who was required to waiver the skills guarantee Oxford offer due to major concerns over his psychological profile. I wouldn’t say mine were highlighted as major, but there were ‘some concerns’ which they were willing to overlook. Would I be asked to waiver the skills guarantee?
Finally, in all honesty, am I cut out for this career? I am only 22 years of age, so believe I can develop my team leadership skills which were the only thing missing at the assessment.
This is a question based around the fact that (God forbid) I pass the retake.
Thanks in advance
. However, I passed all other elements with respectable scores. I have been invited to retake the said failed section within 3 months.My psychological profile came out as ‘some concerns’ around the aspect of team leadership. I was advised it was the team leadership aspect of the group exercise that I could improve on, so these match up quite accurately.
In my opinion, I know I have team leadership in me, and could make a good shot of it when I return. However, this maybe didn’t show on the day and only have myself to blame
.My question (finally!) is…looking to the future, will airline employers look at a failed first skills assessment negatively? Would this affect employability at the end of an APPFO course? Also I have read an article from someone who was required to waiver the skills guarantee Oxford offer due to major concerns over his psychological profile. I wouldn’t say mine were highlighted as major, but there were ‘some concerns’ which they were willing to overlook. Would I be asked to waiver the skills guarantee?
Finally, in all honesty, am I cut out for this career? I am only 22 years of age, so believe I can develop my team leadership skills which were the only thing missing at the assessment.
This is a question based around the fact that (God forbid) I pass the retake.
Thanks in advance
Hovering AND talking
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Please do not take their assessment seriously; secondly please consider other training alternatives, please do not fall for marketing hype and lies and lastly, please do a lot more research before you embark on training.
To give you an idea .. I had the opportunity to take the assessment at OAA. I passed every section with flying colours except the hand-eye co-ordination and was told I did not have the aptitude to fly a helicopter. I had a CPL(H) at the time!!
There are many training schools other than OAA and I would suggest you look at modular training.
To answer your specific question, I doubt an airline would even know about your failed assessment, much less care about it.
Cheers
Whirls
To give you an idea .. I had the opportunity to take the assessment at OAA. I passed every section with flying colours except the hand-eye co-ordination and was told I did not have the aptitude to fly a helicopter. I had a CPL(H) at the time!!
There are many training schools other than OAA and I would suggest you look at modular training.
To answer your specific question, I doubt an airline would even know about your failed assessment, much less care about it.
Cheers
Whirls
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The tests are only a guide. Like the weather man can only make an "educated guess" the tests are also fallible. Nobody's perfect (even me!)
I doubt any prospective employers would see the report from those tests. However they are likely to see the final report from the FTO when you've completed the training and (particularly in a school like Oxford) it will have a bearing on whether you get a recommendation.
Too many people on this forum have a huge "integrated schools are con-shops" chip on their shoulder. I've heard that many of these people also only buy Netto's baked beans and think that Lambrini's just as good as Moet (they're both sparkling white wines aren't they?)
Are you cut out for this career? If you want it badly enough and you have the aptitude, then you only need the attitude to change your approach to leadership / teamwork situations. It comes naturally to some people, others have to work on it. Emphasis on the work part.
Good luck.
I doubt any prospective employers would see the report from those tests. However they are likely to see the final report from the FTO when you've completed the training and (particularly in a school like Oxford) it will have a bearing on whether you get a recommendation.
Too many people on this forum have a huge "integrated schools are con-shops" chip on their shoulder. I've heard that many of these people also only buy Netto's baked beans and think that Lambrini's just as good as Moet (they're both sparkling white wines aren't they?)
Are you cut out for this career? If you want it badly enough and you have the aptitude, then you only need the attitude to change your approach to leadership / teamwork situations. It comes naturally to some people, others have to work on it. Emphasis on the work part.
Good luck.
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Too many people on this forum have a huge "integrated schools are con-shops" chip on their shoulder
. And before anyone asks, not condoning the Ryanair situation - in fact, quite the opposite - wouldn't of wasted my own money on them myself given the choice, especially now they are dying a death on the recruitment front (crap offerings) and seeing the increasing rate of attrition of senior captains to better airlines - no future there guys, leave the irish carrier to slowly fail because of its relatively short-sighted treatment of people.
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Finally, in all honesty, am I cut out for this career?
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I couldn't agree more with WhirlyGig.
I failed god knows how many 'assessments' back in the 1990's, and to be honest, a lot of that stuff is nonsense.
Just out of interest, do you have to pay for that assessment, or is that a silly question?
I failed god knows how many 'assessments' back in the 1990's, and to be honest, a lot of that stuff is nonsense.
Just out of interest, do you have to pay for that assessment, or is that a silly question?
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Thanks for your replies so far ladies and gents...
Whirlygig - I've done a lot (and I mean a lot!) of research into every possible training alternative. Oxford, for reasons other than 'marketing hype and lies', are my first choice. Maybe stupidly in some people's opinion - however, if I'm going to be spending all that money, I'm going to be doing it with the FTO I personally feel has the most to offer. I respect your comment, as it is a valid one from an individual who sounds like they have been in the business a long time. However, the question was centred around their skills assessment, rather than which FTO.
welliewanger - as you can see it's my first post on this forum, but through years of trawling info on here, I can see why you think 'too many people on this forum have a huge "integrated schools are con-shops" chip on their shoulder. Thanks for the advice re teamwork/leadership, and an employers view on the skills assessment. Teamwork/leadership isn't one of my greatest strengths but I'll sure be working hard on it so I can hopefully pull it out on the day.
OutsideCAS - I wouldn't say Oxford have an overly biased opinion on what they can and cannot do regarding employment, would you? I've certainly been given no promises from them, and felt everyone has been relatively honest with me so far, considering the people I've been speaking to are paid to put bums on seats.
MIKECR - yeah, a few here and there. By that I mean a few trial lessons (2.5hrs total) covering the basics, and a bit of time in a glider which I suppose doesn't really count, but helped confirm to me that I want a bird's eye view of the world on a daily basis. It's a long standing dream which I've only recently been in a position to get the wheels moving to try and help make it reality. Unfortunately there is no bank of Mum and Dad - just a well formed plan that will only have a bearing on me should things go Pete Tong.
CAT3C AUTOLAND - there normally is a fee. I've got it for nothing (and rightly so in my opinion) for attending an open day last year.
Whirlygig - I've done a lot (and I mean a lot!) of research into every possible training alternative. Oxford, for reasons other than 'marketing hype and lies', are my first choice. Maybe stupidly in some people's opinion - however, if I'm going to be spending all that money, I'm going to be doing it with the FTO I personally feel has the most to offer. I respect your comment, as it is a valid one from an individual who sounds like they have been in the business a long time. However, the question was centred around their skills assessment, rather than which FTO.
welliewanger - as you can see it's my first post on this forum, but through years of trawling info on here, I can see why you think 'too many people on this forum have a huge "integrated schools are con-shops" chip on their shoulder. Thanks for the advice re teamwork/leadership, and an employers view on the skills assessment. Teamwork/leadership isn't one of my greatest strengths but I'll sure be working hard on it so I can hopefully pull it out on the day.
OutsideCAS - I wouldn't say Oxford have an overly biased opinion on what they can and cannot do regarding employment, would you? I've certainly been given no promises from them, and felt everyone has been relatively honest with me so far, considering the people I've been speaking to are paid to put bums on seats.
MIKECR - yeah, a few here and there. By that I mean a few trial lessons (2.5hrs total) covering the basics, and a bit of time in a glider which I suppose doesn't really count, but helped confirm to me that I want a bird's eye view of the world on a daily basis. It's a long standing dream which I've only recently been in a position to get the wheels moving to try and help make it reality. Unfortunately there is no bank of Mum and Dad - just a well formed plan that will only have a bearing on me should things go Pete Tong.
CAT3C AUTOLAND - there normally is a fee. I've got it for nothing (and rightly so in my opinion) for attending an open day last year.
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Hi ANW1988,
I also failed that assessment for the same reason with repeat test offer.
Read the thread about ‘Modular is cheaper’;
Get a few lessons – my instructor mate took a guy up once who was well keen to go – did a few steep turns and he freaked and wanted to get down;
IMHO now is the time to train. Also despite the fact I failed in OAA, I think they do mould and groom people to be airline ready in addition to the licence. Whether the extra mountain of money is worth it for the likes of FR and EZ I *VERY* seriously doubt;
Have you considered the armed forces? Yes I know there has been a cull recently, but there will still be new entrants each year;
How are you with people in general – can you communicate easier on a one-to-one? Cause that’s what counts;
If you go back to OAA to repeat it, you need to make your presence felt by contributing. I was too quiet and acknowledged that in the debrief – but I just thought what we were doing was cobblers and was more amazed by how certain peoples ego’s just took off – in my opinion they’re the ones you don’t want ;
Consider a PPL in sunny Florida. Do all the exams before you go out though so you can enjoy the flying. Don’t buy the PPL books from the shop they tell you to ‘buy the package’ from – ebay the lot, and do the exams at home. No airline will give a rats about your PPL, BUT a good score is a good score. (You'll get a shock when you come home though, all ATC HATE GA and the rt terminology, ATC procedures and airspace is quite different. The rt really threw me - but it's so much more pleasant to fly there!)
So what do you think of everyones comments?!
All the best…
I also failed that assessment for the same reason with repeat test offer.
Read the thread about ‘Modular is cheaper’;
Get a few lessons – my instructor mate took a guy up once who was well keen to go – did a few steep turns and he freaked and wanted to get down;
IMHO now is the time to train. Also despite the fact I failed in OAA, I think they do mould and groom people to be airline ready in addition to the licence. Whether the extra mountain of money is worth it for the likes of FR and EZ I *VERY* seriously doubt;
Have you considered the armed forces? Yes I know there has been a cull recently, but there will still be new entrants each year;
How are you with people in general – can you communicate easier on a one-to-one? Cause that’s what counts;
If you go back to OAA to repeat it, you need to make your presence felt by contributing. I was too quiet and acknowledged that in the debrief – but I just thought what we were doing was cobblers and was more amazed by how certain peoples ego’s just took off – in my opinion they’re the ones you don’t want ;
Consider a PPL in sunny Florida. Do all the exams before you go out though so you can enjoy the flying. Don’t buy the PPL books from the shop they tell you to ‘buy the package’ from – ebay the lot, and do the exams at home. No airline will give a rats about your PPL, BUT a good score is a good score. (You'll get a shock when you come home though, all ATC HATE GA and the rt terminology, ATC procedures and airspace is quite different. The rt really threw me - but it's so much more pleasant to fly there!)
So what do you think of everyones comments?!
All the best…
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Hi NewKid
Thanks for your reply. Interesting to hear from you, as you're the only other I've come across that failed in the same way!
What's your thoughts behind 'now is the time to train'? I'm no expert myself, but from what I'm reading/hearing, if I were to start the course in 12 months time in Oxford and come out mid-2013, it seems as good a time as any.
Personally the armed forces would be an honour and a privilege - those guys do a great job out there. However, family reasons mean it would never be possible and isn't an option.
With people in general, I'd say (without being big-headed) I'm ok. I'm a friendly kind of guy that likes meeting new people etc. However, I don't think the leadership came out on the day for a few reasons; one being there were some very big characters in my group, and it started to feel more like a competition which obviously it is not. I'm better with people on a one-to-one basis, as showed in my interview score.
A PPL in sunny Florida sounds very appealing! Would it be of any benefit at this stage though, considering the cost? The modular option is the back-up plan should Oxford not materialise...
Thanks
Thanks for your reply. Interesting to hear from you, as you're the only other I've come across that failed in the same way!
What's your thoughts behind 'now is the time to train'? I'm no expert myself, but from what I'm reading/hearing, if I were to start the course in 12 months time in Oxford and come out mid-2013, it seems as good a time as any.
Personally the armed forces would be an honour and a privilege - those guys do a great job out there. However, family reasons mean it would never be possible and isn't an option.
With people in general, I'd say (without being big-headed) I'm ok. I'm a friendly kind of guy that likes meeting new people etc. However, I don't think the leadership came out on the day for a few reasons; one being there were some very big characters in my group, and it started to feel more like a competition which obviously it is not. I'm better with people on a one-to-one basis, as showed in my interview score.
A PPL in sunny Florida sounds very appealing! Would it be of any benefit at this stage though, considering the cost? The modular option is the back-up plan should Oxford not materialise...
Thanks
Hovering AND talking
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ANW1988, if you have done a lot of research then you would know that a failed OAA assessment counts for diddly-squat as far as the airlines are concerned and you would also have an inkling whether you're cut out for the career.
I find it interesting that you say you love the bird's eye view of flying a glider. That is so far removed from being an airline pilot. I honestly think you need to do more research into different career paths and different piloting roles.
Cheers
Whirls
I find it interesting that you say you love the bird's eye view of flying a glider. That is so far removed from being an airline pilot. I honestly think you need to do more research into different career paths and different piloting roles.
Cheers
Whirls
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Whirlygig - To be honest, I've never heard the question asked and that's why I'm on here for the advice.
Secondly, I know I'm cut out for the career - but such a result creates an inkling of doubt, which I needed others (useful) opinion on.
I'm aware that there is a bit more to being an airline pilot than the 'birds eye view'. That's why I said my time spent in a glider didn't really count for anything other than confirming I'm comfortable with that perspective of the world.
And to say I need to do more research again - I've done more than you clearly think I have. Posting on here for others opinions is research in my eyes.
Secondly, I know I'm cut out for the career - but such a result creates an inkling of doubt, which I needed others (useful) opinion on.
I'm aware that there is a bit more to being an airline pilot than the 'birds eye view'. That's why I said my time spent in a glider didn't really count for anything other than confirming I'm comfortable with that perspective of the world.
And to say I need to do more research again - I've done more than you clearly think I have. Posting on here for others opinions is research in my eyes.
Hovering AND talking
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I think you missed my point but, never mind. You know about all the training alternatives and all the various career paths so, fill yer boots.
Cheers
Whirls
Cheers
Whirls
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Apologies if I missed your point - I just feel like you were shooting me down for lack of knowledge about the role and responsibilities of a pilot, like another senseless wannabe.
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Don't worry about the failed test. These games are only played in England, as far as I know. I went through this monkey test in Easyjet. Who knows, how I did. Because I was not interested in the job right at the interview. And I am still flying airplanes as a captain.
I think the english culture is loosing a touch of reality, what concerns interviews.
I think the english culture is loosing a touch of reality, what concerns interviews.
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The personality that these assessments is looking out for is an extrovert teamplayer ... I'm not quite sure whether leadership qualities are required. In a multi-crew environment, a co-pilot has to be able to have the confidence to alert a captain if they have done something wrong or made a possibly incorrect decision. The captain has to have the humility to accept that from a junior as well.
Leadership tends to imply an hierarchical situation of leader/follower and this is not desirable in a cockpit.
Obviously, the student has to learn to accept criticism. So when concerns were expressed over leadership qualities, it might be that there was too much leadership and not enough teamplying. I'm afraid ANW1988, that I am getting the impression that no-one can tell you anything because you already know it.
Cheers
Whirls
Leadership tends to imply an hierarchical situation of leader/follower and this is not desirable in a cockpit.
Obviously, the student has to learn to accept criticism. So when concerns were expressed over leadership qualities, it might be that there was too much leadership and not enough teamplying. I'm afraid ANW1988, that I am getting the impression that no-one can tell you anything because you already know it.
Cheers
Whirls
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Guide
Oxfords tests are better than not doing any tests, but like any test of leadership its down to the assessors individual interpretation of what is good or not. Granted the assessors have been selected for a reason and have assessed many candidates, but nobody is perfect.
Don't forget, some idiots get through (I know of quite a few during my time at OAA ) and some very good candidates don't. It's a guide not a rule.
If an airline looks at your initial assessment I'd be amazed. They just care what your final report says. In fact they don't even see your initial assessment.
Go back, do it again but have a look for some tips on leadership (even if its just lip service).
You passed the important bits, such as the aptitude and interview. Take inspiration from that and get onto an ATPL course while the going is getting good!
Don't forget, some idiots get through (I know of quite a few during my time at OAA ) and some very good candidates don't. It's a guide not a rule.
If an airline looks at your initial assessment I'd be amazed. They just care what your final report says. In fact they don't even see your initial assessment.
Go back, do it again but have a look for some tips on leadership (even if its just lip service).
You passed the important bits, such as the aptitude and interview. Take inspiration from that and get onto an ATPL course while the going is getting good!