What it's like to spend £65,000 and not get a job
then ultimately the industry will 'clean up' its sharp practices.
Am I missing something? Are the likes of CTC renaging on a legal contract? Is a job part of the contract?
What are the sharp practices? Deliberately taking £65k in training and declaring bankruptcy when you don't like the deal. That's sharp practice in my book.
If I place an order for £65K worth of stock, pay in full and the seller declares himself bankrupt- where's MY sharp practice?
OK, lying down now.
CG
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Hernado - I feel for you, it takes some honesty to write what you have. How many others out there are in the same boat?
If I was you declare yourself out the game (if the loan is unsecured) and have that weight off your sholders, thats what bankruptcy is there for.
To the wanabee army - read his post carefully, take it slow, dont jump into integrated with a monster loan. Whats the rush? where do you think the job is going to come from? Supply and demand, if you wait, and others wait, then these FTOs will have to drop their prices, saving you even more money in the long term.
If any wannabe parents read this - DON'T FUND YOUR LOVED ONES!! MAKE THEM WAIT!!!
I am dragging out my ATPL theory course to use up all 18 months of allowed time frame. Then I am not even considering going near a CPL course for at least 6-12 months. Keep saving, keep working there is no rush to spend this money, spending 70k to join the dole queue? Must be mental, actually mental.
DONT LISTEN TO FTO'S!!! They want your/parent/bank money!
If I was you declare yourself out the game (if the loan is unsecured) and have that weight off your sholders, thats what bankruptcy is there for.
To the wanabee army - read his post carefully, take it slow, dont jump into integrated with a monster loan. Whats the rush? where do you think the job is going to come from? Supply and demand, if you wait, and others wait, then these FTOs will have to drop their prices, saving you even more money in the long term.
If any wannabe parents read this - DON'T FUND YOUR LOVED ONES!! MAKE THEM WAIT!!!
I am dragging out my ATPL theory course to use up all 18 months of allowed time frame. Then I am not even considering going near a CPL course for at least 6-12 months. Keep saving, keep working there is no rush to spend this money, spending 70k to join the dole queue? Must be mental, actually mental.
DONT LISTEN TO FTO'S!!! They want your/parent/bank money!
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Just to add to UAV here are what I believe are hard cold facts:
Airlines are not going to start employing Pilots again until late 2010 (at the earliest)
When they do start employing the first they're going to employ are all the people with thousands of hours made redundant by the likes of Zoom.
Late 2011 they may get round to employing Pilots who are lower down the scale (in terms of flight hours experience) such as the charter pilots and experienced instructors.
Then in 2012 they will get onto the thousands of people with CPL/IR.
Realistically it is going to be 2013 before the newbie CPL/IR has a decent chance of getting a job.
Do Not start training before 2011 - it will be a complete waste of time and money until then.
Airlines are not going to start employing Pilots again until late 2010 (at the earliest)
When they do start employing the first they're going to employ are all the people with thousands of hours made redundant by the likes of Zoom.
Late 2011 they may get round to employing Pilots who are lower down the scale (in terms of flight hours experience) such as the charter pilots and experienced instructors.
Then in 2012 they will get onto the thousands of people with CPL/IR.
Realistically it is going to be 2013 before the newbie CPL/IR has a decent chance of getting a job.
Do Not start training before 2011 - it will be a complete waste of time and money until then.
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Pace
Do you actually have any idea of the complexity of this industry? That is such an over-simplification that is effectively meaningless.
OK so this is really not a good time at all for the industry. However you basically seem to be assuming that there are only three segments for pilots to work in, 'charter' (I assume you mean GA, rather than the holiday charters like Monarch, who have been known to take pilots from BA), instructing and 'airlines', and that movement is always one way, and the most experienced pilot always gets preference for the job.
There are actually far more distinct sectors than that (GA can be split into at least four distinct markets, depending on how you split, and the airlines can also be split into at least four markets, each of which has different recruitment needs, and each airline in which will have a different recruitment strategy), recruitment is not so simple and the priority does not always go to experience. There is a lot more to consider, but the point is that it is really not as simple (or 'fair' in some cases) as you suggest. A classic example is that I had a CV from a guy with 6000 hours. However he did not even get an interview as I had more suitable candidates who had sufficient if far fewer hours.
There will be recruitment of inexperienced pilots to some jobs well before 2012, probably some next year. It is unlikely to be widespread, and your conclusion that it is unwise to invest in training now might well be supportable (and on balance I would suggest most people wait). However it is not supported by that assessment.
Do you actually have any idea of the complexity of this industry? That is such an over-simplification that is effectively meaningless.
OK so this is really not a good time at all for the industry. However you basically seem to be assuming that there are only three segments for pilots to work in, 'charter' (I assume you mean GA, rather than the holiday charters like Monarch, who have been known to take pilots from BA), instructing and 'airlines', and that movement is always one way, and the most experienced pilot always gets preference for the job.
There are actually far more distinct sectors than that (GA can be split into at least four distinct markets, depending on how you split, and the airlines can also be split into at least four markets, each of which has different recruitment needs, and each airline in which will have a different recruitment strategy), recruitment is not so simple and the priority does not always go to experience. There is a lot more to consider, but the point is that it is really not as simple (or 'fair' in some cases) as you suggest. A classic example is that I had a CV from a guy with 6000 hours. However he did not even get an interview as I had more suitable candidates who had sufficient if far fewer hours.
There will be recruitment of inexperienced pilots to some jobs well before 2012, probably some next year. It is unlikely to be widespread, and your conclusion that it is unwise to invest in training now might well be supportable (and on balance I would suggest most people wait). However it is not supported by that assessment.
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The question of moral hazard went out the window back in March.
Bear that in mind when dealing with debt options/obligations.
47 to 53 pence in the pound is the current claw back rate.
Bear that in mind when dealing with debt options/obligations.
47 to 53 pence in the pound is the current claw back rate.
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Just take it as a given when you're shopping for flight training, that anybody in this business who "guarantees" anything whatsoever in their dealings with student pilots and prospective jobs / interviews / hours post graduation, is a thieving, grasping, moral bankrupt who is blatantly lying through their teeth. Coming up 20 years in the business now and I have yet to see any evidence whatsoever to the contrary, and that's in the good hiring times let alone the bad.
In fact if my kids ever wish to follow in dad's footsteps, one of my main criteria for exclusion of flying schools will be anyone who uses the word "guarantee" in any of their sales literature, especially if it is associated with large glossy brochures and pictures of sparkly eyed happy young top guns sitting in flight decks of big airliners. And I will be doubly suspicious, if said sales pitch is being presented by some slick talking posh
in a suit, via a powerpoint presentation. And I will turn and run a country mile, if that individual works for an organization that has "aptitude tests" for admission, makes their PPLs wear uniforms and epaulettes and charges twice the going rate of traditional aero club training for the privilege.
Honestly guys - it's a lottery at the best of times getting into this business but going integrated at the moment is an even bigger gamble simply because you appeal to a much smaller employer pool and virtually all of them are not hiring. Anyone who's dumb enough to spend 65 grand in the current employment environment was going to lose their money one way or the other, because they were STUPID, and didnt do their research properly before they bet the house.
Don't be dazzled by the bright lights and bullsh!t of the big training organizations, and all the bogus work-for-free and buy-a-type-rating frills and schemes and cons that every single one of them seems to perpetrate these days. There's no need to spend even half that kind of money on flight training, and a million ways to minimize the risk of being unemployed at the end, provided you're realistic about your first job and prepared to go anywhere and fly anything.
In fact if my kids ever wish to follow in dad's footsteps, one of my main criteria for exclusion of flying schools will be anyone who uses the word "guarantee" in any of their sales literature, especially if it is associated with large glossy brochures and pictures of sparkly eyed happy young top guns sitting in flight decks of big airliners. And I will be doubly suspicious, if said sales pitch is being presented by some slick talking posh
in a suit, via a powerpoint presentation. And I will turn and run a country mile, if that individual works for an organization that has "aptitude tests" for admission, makes their PPLs wear uniforms and epaulettes and charges twice the going rate of traditional aero club training for the privilege.Honestly guys - it's a lottery at the best of times getting into this business but going integrated at the moment is an even bigger gamble simply because you appeal to a much smaller employer pool and virtually all of them are not hiring. Anyone who's dumb enough to spend 65 grand in the current employment environment was going to lose their money one way or the other, because they were STUPID, and didnt do their research properly before they bet the house.
Don't be dazzled by the bright lights and bullsh!t of the big training organizations, and all the bogus work-for-free and buy-a-type-rating frills and schemes and cons that every single one of them seems to perpetrate these days. There's no need to spend even half that kind of money on flight training, and a million ways to minimize the risk of being unemployed at the end, provided you're realistic about your first job and prepared to go anywhere and fly anything.
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numerus clausus
I really feel bad for all those who spend a lot of money for their training, having debts and having no prospects at all.
I'm also ashamed that these FTO's are still selling a dream but as you all know they are still companies. Even if there is no oil left in the world they still would sell it and some people are still naive enough to believe them.
As an authority you can not prevent companies from doing their business. As a authority you can not prevent youngsters taking the decision to go to these 'crooks'. But what you can do as an authority is put a numerus clausus. Not on national but on european scale.
Every country writes 50 (or other number) atpl theoretical exams a year. And every year the authorities can review this number BUT (and this is very important) Ab initios have to be informed that their chance to participate their theoretical exam is very slim. Even then, after being informed) they can still choose to go for it or to drop the idea. I can assure you the number of applicants will drop, FTO's can't blame that can't do business and the market will regulate.
I can't see another (drastic???) way to solve it.
I'm also ashamed that these FTO's are still selling a dream but as you all know they are still companies. Even if there is no oil left in the world they still would sell it and some people are still naive enough to believe them.
As an authority you can not prevent companies from doing their business. As a authority you can not prevent youngsters taking the decision to go to these 'crooks'. But what you can do as an authority is put a numerus clausus. Not on national but on european scale.
Every country writes 50 (or other number) atpl theoretical exams a year. And every year the authorities can review this number BUT (and this is very important) Ab initios have to be informed that their chance to participate their theoretical exam is very slim. Even then, after being informed) they can still choose to go for it or to drop the idea. I can assure you the number of applicants will drop, FTO's can't blame that can't do business and the market will regulate.
I can't see another (drastic???) way to solve it.
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The almost complete abrogation of any sort of self responsibility on these forums is truly breathtaking. It is not the fault of flying schools or sales literature, or pictures or promotions. It is your fault as an individual. Purely and simply your fault!
Flying schools have as much right as car salesrooms or supermarkets to exist. They can dress up their products, and package and promote them how ever they like to make them as enticing and appealing as possible to the customers who might walk through their doors.
If you believe that parting with tens of thousands of pounds will not only provide you with a hundred hours or so of flight and ground training, but will also have commercial airlines swooning at your feet, then enjoy the dream, because clearly that is what you are paying for.
It has always been, is now, and always will be a case of caveat emptor or let the buyer beware. Research what you are buying, before you part with the cash, particularly where large sums of cash are involved. Despite protestations to the contrary, very few people who contribute to these forums appear to do anything like that. They only want to hear what they already choose to believe. Any cautionary advice is labelled as "negativity" or some other buzz word. These people want to be seduced and are ripe for it.
Flying schools are busineses just like many others. They sell a product. You want to buy it, good! They are happy to dress up their marketing with pretty pictures of what that product may do for your life, but that isn't what they are actually contracting to sell you in most cases. So do your research, pay your money and take your choice if that is what you decide. If your own particular dreams and fantasies don't turn out like the ones in the brochures, too bad.
Flying schools are in business to sell you a range of products. As a buyer you have a right to expect them to deliver that product. They cannot sell you a dream, because that only exists in your head. Marketing is a facilitation tool that uses pretty pictures, soft lights, nice smells and the exploitation of irrationality to place an often mundane product in an attractive wrapper. If you are over 18 and are unable to recognise this concept, then you are not yet ready for this career and many others besides.
Flying schools have as much right as car salesrooms or supermarkets to exist. They can dress up their products, and package and promote them how ever they like to make them as enticing and appealing as possible to the customers who might walk through their doors.
If you believe that parting with tens of thousands of pounds will not only provide you with a hundred hours or so of flight and ground training, but will also have commercial airlines swooning at your feet, then enjoy the dream, because clearly that is what you are paying for.
It has always been, is now, and always will be a case of caveat emptor or let the buyer beware. Research what you are buying, before you part with the cash, particularly where large sums of cash are involved. Despite protestations to the contrary, very few people who contribute to these forums appear to do anything like that. They only want to hear what they already choose to believe. Any cautionary advice is labelled as "negativity" or some other buzz word. These people want to be seduced and are ripe for it.
Flying schools are busineses just like many others. They sell a product. You want to buy it, good! They are happy to dress up their marketing with pretty pictures of what that product may do for your life, but that isn't what they are actually contracting to sell you in most cases. So do your research, pay your money and take your choice if that is what you decide. If your own particular dreams and fantasies don't turn out like the ones in the brochures, too bad.
Flying schools are in business to sell you a range of products. As a buyer you have a right to expect them to deliver that product. They cannot sell you a dream, because that only exists in your head. Marketing is a facilitation tool that uses pretty pictures, soft lights, nice smells and the exploitation of irrationality to place an often mundane product in an attractive wrapper. If you are over 18 and are unable to recognise this concept, then you are not yet ready for this career and many others besides.
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... to a very large extent you're talking good sense bealzebub but certain flying training establishments have perfected the art of the hard sell to an extent that puts time-share sales tactics to shame. And a large number of their customers are extremely young and naive.
- Standing up in front of a room full of punters and talking with a straight face about the huge "impending pilot shortage" ...
- Filling your marketing literature with claims and implications that your company has specific links to a certain airline, when the truth is that you last sent cadets to that airline over a decade ago ...
- Having a mysterious and wonderful "hold pool" for graduates that never seems to get any smaller - which also has the benefit of stopping people from complaining they were ripped off, for years after they've finished training, because they are still terrified of getting removed from the "hold pool" if they rock the boat ...
The list is as long as your arm, and it gets longer with every new school and every new scam that comes along.
Yes of course the buyer should beware and it's their own stupid fault if they get burned at the end of the day. But, I will also never stop posting things like this on pprune, because this is one of the first stops smart people make when they're actually trying to do some research into the minefield of modern day pilot training and trying to separate the fact from the fiction.
- Standing up in front of a room full of punters and talking with a straight face about the huge "impending pilot shortage" ...
- Filling your marketing literature with claims and implications that your company has specific links to a certain airline, when the truth is that you last sent cadets to that airline over a decade ago ...
- Having a mysterious and wonderful "hold pool" for graduates that never seems to get any smaller - which also has the benefit of stopping people from complaining they were ripped off, for years after they've finished training, because they are still terrified of getting removed from the "hold pool" if they rock the boat ...
The list is as long as your arm, and it gets longer with every new school and every new scam that comes along.
Yes of course the buyer should beware and it's their own stupid fault if they get burned at the end of the day. But, I will also never stop posting things like this on pprune, because this is one of the first stops smart people make when they're actually trying to do some research into the minefield of modern day pilot training and trying to separate the fact from the fiction.
Converstation with a wanabe yesterday:
Wanabe - 'shall I do modular or integrated?'
Me - 'best do modular because it'll give you more time for the job situation to improve'
Wanabe - 'OK, but everyone coming out of Oxford at the moment is getting placed with an airline'
Me - 'there are no jobs to be had'
Wanabe - 'I know everyone comming out of Oxford is getting work - I was only talking to them a few days ago'
Wanabe - 'shall I do modular or integrated?'
Me - 'best do modular because it'll give you more time for the job situation to improve'
Wanabe - 'OK, but everyone coming out of Oxford at the moment is getting placed with an airline'
Me - 'there are no jobs to be had'
Wanabe - 'I know everyone comming out of Oxford is getting work - I was only talking to them a few days ago'
Try being me.
I've just about finally learned that the Wannabe Zombie Army is now so big, so vast, that even using the enormous brass trumpet that is PPRuNe Wannabes forum is but a feeble fart in a gale to them.
I sense that this was not the case in the years following Sept 11. My theory is that the vast, chasm spanning size of the credit bubble 2005 - 2007 'created' an enormous amount of 'wealth'. The enormous pool of money is what continues to power the army long after it should have grown weary and fallen from the battlefield. Until it all dries up the schools will continue to churn out more zombies at a relentless pace.
Argument, reason, advice, history - nothing works. The only force that can stop them is the bouncing of the cheque.
Keeps my old pals still in the instructing world in employment so there is a silver lining of sorts.
WWW
I've just about finally learned that the Wannabe Zombie Army is now so big, so vast, that even using the enormous brass trumpet that is PPRuNe Wannabes forum is but a feeble fart in a gale to them.
I sense that this was not the case in the years following Sept 11. My theory is that the vast, chasm spanning size of the credit bubble 2005 - 2007 'created' an enormous amount of 'wealth'. The enormous pool of money is what continues to power the army long after it should have grown weary and fallen from the battlefield. Until it all dries up the schools will continue to churn out more zombies at a relentless pace.
Argument, reason, advice, history - nothing works. The only force that can stop them is the bouncing of the cheque.
Keeps my old pals still in the instructing world in employment so there is a silver lining of sorts.
WWW
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ZeBedie
That's right - everyone. A quick look at the published employment statistics on the OAA website shows that in 2009 a total of 106 graduates have found employment flying within an airline environment. Of that 106 note that 26 were 'sponsored' (NJE, FlyBe & TCX) and of that 26, 6 are currently on gardening leave for the winter season and 16 were invited to participate in a form of voluntary redundancy whilst still training.
61% of the total paid an additional 30K for a 737NG type rating to an organisation who have cleverly converted their TRTO into a profit centre during an economic downturn.
Importantly for the consumer the schools don't publish their student loads for the year, however it's not difficult to estimate the numbers: I believe OAA runs a course a month and works to an average class size of 24 students per course although I am lead to believe the numbers have been higher for each class in 2008/9, but ignoring that it works out at a total of 288 students (conservatively) of which a small number may not complete the course for a variety of reasons. You can manipulate statistics more or less how you want but the basic maths shows that for this year something in the order of 40% of graduates have managed to find employment of which 10% enjoyed 'sponsorship' in one form or another (meaning they were pre-selected and effectively had the promise of a job at the end of it). Don't neglect the fact that to graduate in 2009 you would have commenced training during '08 or earlier.
Based on what I've seen of the industry this year 40% sounds extremely good going but if the marketing department is suggesting to potential customers that everyone is getting work I would advise to exercise caution as that statement seems a little wide of the mark
.
Wanabe - 'I know everyone comming out of Oxford is getting work - I was only talking to them a few days ago'
61% of the total paid an additional 30K for a 737NG type rating to an organisation who have cleverly converted their TRTO into a profit centre during an economic downturn.
Importantly for the consumer the schools don't publish their student loads for the year, however it's not difficult to estimate the numbers: I believe OAA runs a course a month and works to an average class size of 24 students per course although I am lead to believe the numbers have been higher for each class in 2008/9, but ignoring that it works out at a total of 288 students (conservatively) of which a small number may not complete the course for a variety of reasons. You can manipulate statistics more or less how you want but the basic maths shows that for this year something in the order of 40% of graduates have managed to find employment of which 10% enjoyed 'sponsorship' in one form or another (meaning they were pre-selected and effectively had the promise of a job at the end of it). Don't neglect the fact that to graduate in 2009 you would have commenced training during '08 or earlier.
Based on what I've seen of the industry this year 40% sounds extremely good going but if the marketing department is suggesting to potential customers that everyone is getting work I would advise to exercise caution as that statement seems a little wide of the mark
.
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quite some good responses here...
.....I don't really blame it on CTC though.
Seriously, the first guy started his training two years ago, back then times were looking good, and surely they all aren't involved in the business world that much to predict a downturn coming?!
I couldn't have told until the downturn actually started. Back in 2007 a lot of wannabes were still getting jobs at airlines more or less quickly, so I don't blame the new starters for thinking it's gonna keep up until 2009.
Luck is tough.
Seriously, the first guy started his training two years ago, back then times were looking good, and surely they all aren't involved in the business world that much to predict a downturn coming?!
I couldn't have told until the downturn actually started. Back in 2007 a lot of wannabes were still getting jobs at airlines more or less quickly, so I don't blame the new starters for thinking it's gonna keep up until 2009.
Luck is tough.
Heard the other day that CTC have approached former students (now experienced F/Os) to join their "recruiting" campaign at University open days.
They must be getting desperate.
Also interesting that they chose former students who are lucky enough to be in full-time employment, and not the flexiwing cadets layed off at the end of October!
The F/O I was flying with and his friends who were called declined their offer.
They must be getting desperate.
Also interesting that they chose former students who are lucky enough to be in full-time employment, and not the flexiwing cadets layed off at the end of October!
The F/O I was flying with and his friends who were called declined their offer.
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Its interesting how students blame FTOs for overcharging them to get a position with low hour ryan air scheme or other like outfits(thats if they get lucky)and on the other hand fos with about 2-3000 hours on jet blaming the same students to block their possibility of a position with these airlines.
I know many well qualified fos with no interviews lined up since the last 3 months and it doesnt look good for the next future either...
I suggest to wannabes to wait before spending your money/family money for the industry to get back on its feet.
Hopefully their pool of students will dry out,the prices of type ratings will go down,the qualified fos will get the jobs and then when the time comes you will get a higher chance to land your dream job with less $$$$.
Whichever route you go for i wish you good luck
I know many well qualified fos with no interviews lined up since the last 3 months and it doesnt look good for the next future either...
I suggest to wannabes to wait before spending your money/family money for the industry to get back on its feet.
Hopefully their pool of students will dry out,the prices of type ratings will go down,the qualified fos will get the jobs and then when the time comes you will get a higher chance to land your dream job with less $$$$.
Whichever route you go for i wish you good luck
Someone said:
Absolutely correct, support that 100%.
But don't whinge about it if you feel you were misled.
But we cannot, hand on heart, be critical of anyone who wishes to give it a go.
But don't whinge about it if you feel you were misled.
Last edited by charliegolf; 12th Nov 2009 at 13:58.
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The truth is, IMO, the Zombie Army march will only stop when the money is no longer available.
Sadly, this thread only serves to demonstrate that the loans are being serviced. ( Probably to be encouraged as they are guaranteed by Dads house in the Home Counties. )
Objectively, Student Pilots are a very good loan.
Whilst there is credit the FTO's tills will continue to ring loud and often.
Sadly, this thread only serves to demonstrate that the loans are being serviced. ( Probably to be encouraged as they are guaranteed by Dads house in the Home Counties. )
Objectively, Student Pilots are a very good loan.
Whilst there is credit the FTO's tills will continue to ring loud and often.
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I graduated from OAA in March 2008 with 140 hours total. Type rating with Gecat/OAA April/May and base trained 10 June 2008. OAA cost £64'0000 Type rating 737ng cost £16'500. Living costs whilst on course I have never had the guts to calculate.
I worked for 3 months for my first company before it went pop and gained 170 hours on the 738/9.
2 months later I started in Africa on the 737NG and worked there until April 2009 gaining 140 hours doing 40 minute sectors.
April 2009 I started at another UK company on the 738 and am still here and loving it.
At job 1 I took home after tax £3200, job 2 £2300, job 3 £3/4000.
I am now approaching 1000 total time with nearly all of it on type.
Before I started flying I was an engineer in the military for 12 years and doing my fair share of jobs in the sand pit where I left behind a few friends. For this I took home around £2300.
I get annoyed when I read posts on here by people who are pilots and condemn others for trying to be the same. The glory days may have gone for you guys but it is still a glamorous and exciting job. I have never once since I started not wanted to get up and go to work and when I am there it doesn't even feel like a job it feels as though someone is paying me to do my hobby and I love it. I admit that this is probably linked to the airline you fly for as I wouldn't want to be doing 5 earlie's 4 off etc but I don't have to as I am doing charter flying.
I don't have rich parents and of the 25+ that were in my class only a couple had there courses paid for by there parents. Mine did help me though by securing my loan on their house but I am the one who pays my loan repayments.
Now if you look at what I earned before I started to fly then add the loan repayment of £1100 on top you will see that I didn't take a paycut. Yes this job is more unstable but I now work 6/8 days a month instead of 5 days a week and I don't have to go live where people are shooting at me and mortaring me in my sleep.
My friends outside aviation think I have been unlucky but those who are inside know how lucky I have been.
It is a big undertaking doing these course's and I would never recommend that anyone who is thinking of undertaking one does so without:
1-A well paying job to fall back on if it doesn't work out.
2-A well paying job to fall back on if it doesn't work out.
3-A well paying job to fall back on if it doesn't work out.
4-Be prepared for a roller coaster ride that could end up in bankruptcy.
You need to get a trade before you start this unless you are pretty well off.
I worked for 3 months for my first company before it went pop and gained 170 hours on the 738/9.
2 months later I started in Africa on the 737NG and worked there until April 2009 gaining 140 hours doing 40 minute sectors.
April 2009 I started at another UK company on the 738 and am still here and loving it.
At job 1 I took home after tax £3200, job 2 £2300, job 3 £3/4000.
I am now approaching 1000 total time with nearly all of it on type.
Before I started flying I was an engineer in the military for 12 years and doing my fair share of jobs in the sand pit where I left behind a few friends. For this I took home around £2300.
I get annoyed when I read posts on here by people who are pilots and condemn others for trying to be the same. The glory days may have gone for you guys but it is still a glamorous and exciting job. I have never once since I started not wanted to get up and go to work and when I am there it doesn't even feel like a job it feels as though someone is paying me to do my hobby and I love it. I admit that this is probably linked to the airline you fly for as I wouldn't want to be doing 5 earlie's 4 off etc but I don't have to as I am doing charter flying.
I don't have rich parents and of the 25+ that were in my class only a couple had there courses paid for by there parents. Mine did help me though by securing my loan on their house but I am the one who pays my loan repayments.
Now if you look at what I earned before I started to fly then add the loan repayment of £1100 on top you will see that I didn't take a paycut. Yes this job is more unstable but I now work 6/8 days a month instead of 5 days a week and I don't have to go live where people are shooting at me and mortaring me in my sleep.
My friends outside aviation think I have been unlucky but those who are inside know how lucky I have been.
It is a big undertaking doing these course's and I would never recommend that anyone who is thinking of undertaking one does so without:
1-A well paying job to fall back on if it doesn't work out.
2-A well paying job to fall back on if it doesn't work out.
3-A well paying job to fall back on if it doesn't work out.
4-Be prepared for a roller coaster ride that could end up in bankruptcy.
You need to get a trade before you start this unless you are pretty well off.