Do you really want to be a pilot!

[Bla Bla Bla]

I can't help feeling that allot and of the younger guys and girls in training just don't have a passion for the actual flying anymore and don't seem to know anything about aviation before they start. All they want is a right hand seat and some gold bars and most of them don't even know what an airline pilot actually does or have even looked in the cockpit.

I have seen them looking with confusion at a DC3 and asking what that a/c is and why is it's undercarriage broken!

I flew a guy ages ago in a C206 who was just starting his training and asked me how many engines we had!

I know this is not all of you but times are tough and I think if you really want it its times like this that your passion and knowledge shines through. Some one who really really wants to fly will be happy in any aeroplane at the start, its not what you fly its how you fly it.

[2 Whites 2 Reds]

The thing is being a Pilot isn't as uncommon as it once was. The route to being a pilot has arguably become easier ever since the death of traditional sponsorship.

I love aviation and pretty am pretty fascinated with everything about it....but compared to some of the guys I trained with who always had this months edition of Fly Past in their bags, you could say I'm not that interested either. A said above, I love aviation, flying and what I do but I think its actually healthy for the industry to have people with other interests. Honestly would you want to spend all day behind that locked flight deck door with someone that has no real interests other than aviation??? I wouldn't.

Conversely, neither would I want to be sat on the flight deck with someone who has absolutely no interest in aviation generally because they're probably there for the wrong reasons. As with everything, theres a balance to be struck.

2W2R

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Bla, I know exactly what you mean!

[AQVILA]

Im glad to see theres people that agree with me! I think in an ideal world you shouldn't even be allowed to be a commercial pilot if you're just doing it for the money or glory. I hate those people. You should only get into flying because you love flying!! Not that theres anything wrong with having other interests aswell! We want people who shout clear prop before they start their cars then call for taxi before leaving the driveway!

[powerstall]

I know the feeling! Some would like to fly just because of the pay, others for the glamour. .... and for some... heck, just for the love of flying!

[RingwaySam]

Like 2 Whites 2 Reds, im also fascinated with aviation, love everything about it. My dream is to become a pilot but I have to be realistic about things. I'm not the brightest person around, I don't live in a nice area and one of my parents thinks im being unrealistic and that's hard to take. Does that mean im not going to try my hardest to get where I want to be? Course not. It's going to take alot of hard work but im willing to do it.

Ideally I'd like to be flying around Africa Bush flying in a few years time. I know most people think it's ridiculous but 9-5 office jobs just aren't for me.

[Bla Bla Bla]

I don't even want to get into the lack of hand flying skills and decision making argument, for these type of chaps. But I just think ignoring those other points, they will be sat up the front of the big tube one day thinking do you know I never flew a Piper cub or flew through a mountain pass or had to get from A to B in marginal weather or took heavy loads out of a bush strip etc etc. Some might say that's a good thing but I don't, a real aviator has a rounded knowledge and you can't buy or rush that.

[B200Drvr]

Thats why I support the initiative to change the ruling regarding airline pilots. IMHO all pilots should have 1500 hrs and an unfrozen ATPL before being allowed to sit as a 1st officer, in an airline. It will encourage pilots to be pilots and see some real flying before the hum drum life of airlines. Furthermore, it will prevent operators from butchering young pilots into £ 30 000 type ratings and making them work for low pay. But most of all, it will prevent people who don't have an interest in the job from getting there. Please don't misunderstand me, you don't have to be an aviation nut to be able to fly an aeroplane, but a healthy interest in what you do will make you better at it. I was fortunate to have worked for the UN, ICRC and various other NGO's on my way to my ATPL, it gave me the chance to fly some great machines and get some very valuable "stick time."
These opportunities are out there, you just have to look past the shiny Boeing or Airbus

[Katamarino]

I joined for glory and the girls, but all I got is ropey old clubhouses and elderly men

[Ian the Aviator]

something about nails and hitting heads ??

B200Drvr

I think you've identified one of the major problems with our industry today... and I couldn't agree more.

There are far too many people (note: people, not pilots) sat in the RHS of 737 / 320 / whatever that just have no experience of aviation.

Lets face it, if you have a fat cheque book it's not difficult to get a froz ATPL and a type rating (plus 300 hrs) and still have no idea how to fly.

I'm with B200Drvr - ALL pilots wanting that RHS should spend an apprenticeship doing the real learning - that means a lot of the 1500 hrs requirement doing work as FIs, para-dropping, taxi work, etc.

The now shrinking status of drivers of the shiney jets can only be recovered when they are 'real pilots', not just trained monkeys with big loans or wealthy parents.

Right - rant over - back to work !!

[speedrestriction]

Money, glory, glamour? What year is this?

I couldn't care less how much the person in the other seat loves flying. Are they safe, are they competent and can we have a laugh during the day? Don't need anything more than that.

sr

[M14_P]

Yep it is only in the last 4 years or so, that I have met and become friends with other aviators that share the PASSION that I have always had. Easy to get to know the older guys who have done it all their lives and great to meet them and hear all their stories, but it is sometimes even more fun to get to know others your age.
There is a loose networked group of us in this region (ranging from 21-28yrs) all with experience on Tigers/Nanchangs/Yak 52/Pitts etc etc, all with clear goals, and ambitions to become display pilots at one stage down the track or another. It's differcult, possibly highly unlikely, but hugely great fun and exactly what I dreamt of being involved with when I was 10.

I have always tried to encourage younger people coming through to TAKE THEIR TIME but no one listens to that, as others have said, its a pure obsession to have the RHS in an airliner. Things have changed so much....
Feel sorry for them.....

[dbriglee]

Hey guys.
New to this forum, but heard about it for years!
I agree totally with all the points you all make but being a young guy myself, thought i'd give my opinion.

Did my PPL with the help from funds from a family member, which was great fun and went to do an integrated course.
Just before you judge, the 60 grand loan is all on my head and in my name.

Now working on the dash in the right hand seat. I love the job! Don't get me wrong.
But, i have very little experience of planes other than the commercial world. I mean, yes you are interested in planes when you are growing up etc etc. I went to air shows etc etc.
But I know nothing about military planes and I have only flown the warrior/piper/seneca in the training.

Like 'speed restriction' says, the world has totally changed now in my opinion. Much more to the MPL focus (which i think is ridiculous-- and if you guys are judgemental about people with little experience, the MPL is going to make your blood boil isnt it??!
I meet people in the job and sim checks who have flown every amazing plane going! Vulcan/Red arrow pilots/Aerobatic Instructors/CAA certified pilots for signing off new builds etcetc.

And i'm there just in awe of them, thinking how on earth do i compare to these guys with my experience??! What do i say to them to make conversation about flying/

But, even though I dont have this experience, and not a lot of young guys ever will, it doesnt mean i have lost the drive to fly more varied a/c.
I'm looking into doing and aerobatics course just for fun, and to redo my lapsed single engine

The way of the world has changed, you guys must be able to see that. To a more commercial focus. I would love to do it in modular for a few years actually FLYING, as opposed to being in chage at the front of the plane. But we do hand flying all the time, and still have fun in the job.

I dont want to start a debate about flying instructors vs intergrated course, but i think young guys (including me), were scared of going down the flight instruction route due to the availability of jobs and the money required to get to that position.

Now ive got a brilliant job (yes not much experience), and i love going to work. I know the dash inside out, and feel confident i can handle any emergency under pressure to save the day.

My comparison is....
You dont have to be a racing driver to like cars
You dont have to be an experienced pilot to like flying for a career

Peace out

[speedrestriction]

I know the dash inside out

Not a good attitude, some day she'll bite

[Bla Bla Bla]

" You don't have to be an experienced pilot to like a flying career"

No you don't but I bet your passengers would like you to be an experienced pilot whilst enjoying your flying career.

Fair one you got offered a great job early on and I'm sure we would have all taken it if we had that opportunity. But I think you would agree that if push came to shove and you had to fly by the seat of your pants and and really get hold of the aircraft it maybe your first time of doing so.

I agree totally that things have changed and the MPL will probably be the way the airlines go in the future. I hope when the captain and the fo both ex mpl have a situation like the Hudson that some one has taught them and given them the reactions and experience that captain had built up over years and years of flying.

Thread creep sorry, anyway what ever route you take it does not change the fact that allot of the new guys/girls don't no a DC3 from a F16 for example. And no I don't think it makes you a safer pilot but it does show an interest in the industry and actually allow you to get more from your job in terms of interest.

[Vanpilot]

How many people " the paying public" would still fly on the low cost airlines if they knew that should the captain be not up to speed, they can have full faith in the 300hrs guy/girl that had the largest check book at the time.

I'm sure most of them are very capable pilots but Like F1's Mr Lewis Hamilton even when sponsored by a big named team had to work his way up.......not just yes he can drive well lets putting him in the fastest thing we can find straight away.

The hardest thing I find is that some of them think they belong there and its their right to just fly for an airline in a 737/320. Maybe its just the way it was sold to them by the great schools of the UK. Who are probably still saying its a great time to get your CPL/IR so you can be ready for the next Boom

There are still some coming up the hard way in our ops room learning the trade and teaching in there days off....so there will still be the odd pilot knocking about that has flown something other than a seneca and a 737.

Like to think I would not have gone right seat straight away in a 737. If I'd had the chance when I started flying but ...who knows.....the dark side is strong

[M14_P]

Vanpilot

I'd agree that the concept seems to have been sold to those that didn't know any better when getting involved.
I was bagged by instructors when I was at school working towards my PPL when I said that I didn't think that doing the fulltime air academy type course was the answer for me. looking back, I am so glad I made that decision and knew that doing the fulltime loan course wasn't for me.

Working for a living, and now running a business that I am quite happy with and personally get alot of satisfaction out of, while instructing in various types part time and flying other cool vintage machines is just my cup of tea and I couldn't personally ask for more!

Just listen to all that is said by these highly experienced posters on here and I think new people considering these courses may have a better understanding and better preparation to make a decision.

[AQVILA]

ring way sam

same here mate. bush flying is where its at! have you looked into mission aviation fellowship or something similar?

[dbriglee]

I see where you are coming from, but correct me if i'm wrong (well i'm sure I will be)

But.....
In the days before this, the only real major way to become an airline pilot was to do it the modular way, PPL and become an instructor to get the hours up to a few thousand. ONLY THEN would you still only even be LOOKED at by an airline??! It was a struggle wasn't it??! There was no way of going to the airlines after a few hundred hours in a warrior/seneca and say, 'YES please give me a job'


Well, now, yes it has changed!!
I didnt start life of wanting to have aspirations to be a pilot to becoming an instructor and taking my time.
I wanted to aim for the top (ie a pilot of a big plane with responsibility), not working a life of an instructor.
When i had the opportunity of getting a career i took it. With both hands!.
I didnt turn it down thinking 'hmmm i need some more experience, i think i should instruct for a while'

If there were no airline jobs available when i were to finish training, i was considering an instructor course and doing that for a few years, no problem! Income to pay off the loan, and flying experience -invaluable1
I think anyone finishing courses, integrated or modular, are thinking this!


And quoting VANPILOT:
How many people " the paying public" would still fly on the low cost airlines if they knew that should the captain be not up to speed, they can have full faith in the 300hrs guy/girl that had the largest check book at the time.


well, in my experience, the more experienced captains i fly with, (a selected few i am saying) are so caught up in previous aircraft that they are unwilling to learn another type in completeness. They know the basics of course! New F/Os on fleets are more involved in knowing how to do things correctly, the up to date SOPs, the procedures at certain airfields, because they take time to learn them. More to do with reading things i suppose....

Captains are more experienced in the aviation world, with expected holding conditions, predicting certain situations before they happen, taking more fuel etc etc.

And we go together well. I will learn all those things whilst i am in the job!
(just like a new driver on the roads)

And talking about emergencies, with engine failure after take off, for example.
Would you prefer to have a guy who did his IR last year, and knows the THEORY behind what he is doing, and has a feel for the aircraft preventing overcontrol, and correct inputs for a balanced flight.

or maybe a captain who hasn't had a REAL engine failure drill (apart from the sim twice a year), since his IR about 20 years ago??!
I'm not slagging off captains AT ALL! Just giving an example of what 'experience' means to you.

Ironically!!! There is no desire for a selected few experienced guys to learn all you can about the aircraft, like i thrive for.
They have 'done it all before' . Which is the wrong attitude to have.

Yes, captains (NOT ALL THOUGH), would have better flying 'skills' than me i suppose, more 'feel' for certain situations.. HUDSON i suppose


BUT.... experience doesnt necessarily make you 'better' or 'safer'

[dbriglee]

RAF?? coluld be an option