Where are all the OAA pilots?
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Where are all the OAA pilots?
I was wondering where all the OAA grad pilots are today. There are hundreds leaving that place every year.
Why are they not active on PPrune?
Are they all employed?
Annoyed they paid over the odds?
I dont want to start a inte v mod debate. I am just curious as they are very vocal on the training forum before training and then they seem to disappear after than into thin air.
Why are they not active on PPrune?
Are they all employed?
Annoyed they paid over the odds?
I dont want to start a inte v mod debate. I am just curious as they are very vocal on the training forum before training and then they seem to disappear after than into thin air.
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Personally I think the most of the most vocal sellers of integrated never actually start training be it either method. Either generating the cash required stops them or other events preclude them starting eg failing the class 1. Or they are too thick to pass the very basic maths and science tests that OAA make them sit.
And the ones that do continue find a much more pleasant atmosphere on the OAA forums where there are no airline pilots for a start who were modular trained. And I am pretty certain that all internet on site is monitored and its not exactly hard to work out who is who if you have access to the proxy server.
And it takes pretty big balls to come back after completing the course and tell everyone that your 70-80k in debt and about to pay 35k for a RYR type rating and you regret your choice in training.
Nobody has ever said that the training isn't of a high standard so its up to the individual if that amount of cash was worth it to them and their circumstances. Some people couldn't manage the self discipline involved in doing modular training some need the structured learning that OAA provides.
I wouldn't think things are too pleasant for those half way through just now. All the usual suspect who they would have normally had an advantage with arn't hiring. Previous "sponsorship" deals have all fallen through with the guys not securing a job.
And edited to add there have been no OAA graduates or in fact any pilots taken on by either BA or flybe in the last 6 months. And the Netjets guys are being put on unpaid hold. RYR have started kicking FO's out after 500 hours on line so out of that list of 62 pilots employed this year so far only 13 of them have any job with stability. And no doudt there is 20-30 graduates per month getting released to the market.
And the ones that do continue find a much more pleasant atmosphere on the OAA forums where there are no airline pilots for a start who were modular trained. And I am pretty certain that all internet on site is monitored and its not exactly hard to work out who is who if you have access to the proxy server.
And it takes pretty big balls to come back after completing the course and tell everyone that your 70-80k in debt and about to pay 35k for a RYR type rating and you regret your choice in training.
Nobody has ever said that the training isn't of a high standard so its up to the individual if that amount of cash was worth it to them and their circumstances. Some people couldn't manage the self discipline involved in doing modular training some need the structured learning that OAA provides.
I wouldn't think things are too pleasant for those half way through just now. All the usual suspect who they would have normally had an advantage with arn't hiring. Previous "sponsorship" deals have all fallen through with the guys not securing a job.
And edited to add there have been no OAA graduates or in fact any pilots taken on by either BA or flybe in the last 6 months. And the Netjets guys are being put on unpaid hold. RYR have started kicking FO's out after 500 hours on line so out of that list of 62 pilots employed this year so far only 13 of them have any job with stability. And no doudt there is 20-30 graduates per month getting released to the market.
Last edited by mad_jock; 8th Jun 2009 at 20:52.
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It is nearly seven years since I left Oxford after my doing my integrated course. Obviously the training system now is somewhat different to what it was then. However one is ultimately paying for the issue of a commercial licence that will allow them to be employed. Anything else that is achieved (i.e. employment assistance) is better viewed as being an added bonus.
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It is often true that those who complain the loudest about particular FTOs and airlines are those who have no involvement with organizations in question. Those who were rejected by Oxford and Ryanair are some of the most bitter. With that in mind, I'm curious, Dara, as to why you care so much how many OAA grads choose to post on prune.
Maybe they're all too busy flying for major airlines. Maybe they're all too busy at the Jobcentre / McD's. Maybe they have better things to do with their time. They don't have to post on here (but many do) and they probably have fewer questions to ask on this side of the course than the other.
Almost all are employed but not all of them as pilots (yet).
Haven't met any who have said that. Have you? If your potential future earnings hinge on your employability in a difficult market, then would you get a qualification on the cheap from a backstreet FTO or would you pay a bit more for training that is highly respected and recognised worldwide? Even the detractors have to admit that the Oxford name is a strong one. If you can stretch yourself to afford a big name FTO it could be a false economy not to.
So tell me, what's your agenda here?
Why are they not active on PPrune?
Are they all employed?
Annoyed they paid over the odds?
So tell me, what's your agenda here?
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Why are they not active on PPRuNe?
I would keep it down if I had spend 50k on a cpl license, and another 20-25k on a rating, without counting food, time lost ...just for 200h of flight or if lucky 500hours in a monkeys company like Ryanair.
be real, airlines will loose 9 billiards this year...do you really think they will hire a wanabe pilot coming out of oxford unless they find someone to pay more and more for some hours to write in a nice empty log book?
Most pilots come back to earth after their training, and discover the dream is over.
this is what I call "the hardest landing" in a pilot's career
!
if you want a job as a pilot in the long run, you need 2 things: Hours and Experience, so best to keep your money, rent a plane and fly!.
or get an IT job, this is where the money is!
I would keep it down if I had spend 50k on a cpl license, and another 20-25k on a rating, without counting food, time lost ...just for 200h of flight or if lucky 500hours in a monkeys company like Ryanair.
be real, airlines will loose 9 billiards this year...do you really think they will hire a wanabe pilot coming out of oxford unless they find someone to pay more and more for some hours to write in a nice empty log book?
Most pilots come back to earth after their training, and discover the dream is over.
this is what I call "the hardest landing" in a pilot's career
!if you want a job as a pilot in the long run, you need 2 things: Hours and Experience, so best to keep your money, rent a plane and fly!.
or get an IT job, this is where the money is!
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Those who were rejected by Oxford and Ryanair are some of the most bitter
It really is sad that its gone from everyone aspiring to graduating to work for BMI and BA to the goal of working for RYR. I say working but all it is really is a revenue stream for RYR and you don't actually work for them you prostitute yourself a contract agency with no employment rights. 500 hours and they have to start paying you money and your out on your backside looking for a job again.
Just ignore dart I agree he is a very likely candidate for failing the 2+2 maths test.
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Most of them have gone to Ryanair.
Quite a few of them to BA and Flybe and so on...
There is a detailed list on the OAA website.
Quite a few of them to BA and Flybe and so on...
There is a detailed list on the OAA website.
But none of the Netjets cadets will be going to Netjets and OAA have refuse to help them find a job. OAA say that the cadets are not they problem.
Funny how OAA say as far as they concern the cadets will leave them as employed and I bet they count them so when trying to convinse new students to part with money. "Look. These guys train with us and go straight in to jobs"
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airlines will loose 9 billiards this year
mad_jock is bang on the money.
And as for:
Almost all are employed but not all of them as pilots (yet).
As for Ryanair, I certainly do NOT consider that to be employment. In that I am not saying the people flying for them are not good pilots or that they have not had to play the cards they've been dealt the best they can but that is NOT employment.
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Most of them have gone to Ryanair.
Quite a few of them to BA and Flybe and so on...
There is a detailed list on the OAA website.
cheers
Quite a few of them to BA and Flybe and so on...
There is a detailed list on the OAA website.
cheers
OAA is a fine establishment and if one was inclined to take a punt in the hopes of a BA job then OAA is the place (although BA are in a mess right now
) but if the goal is flybe, RA then i personally wouldn't go there.I totally agree with Mister Geezers post.
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As always pprune throws up a bunch of comments that range from pure ****e to absolut unadulterated ****e. So, an educated way of presenting a case is to look at both sides. Leave us then to consider the plight of ANYONE who has just finished flight training. Oh look, its not just OAA grads that are struggling to find jobs, it's everyone. Is it significantly better to have 'only' spent £50k? I don't think so, but hey - that wouldn't give you the opportunity to spout I'll founded bile, would it?
So lets clarify a couple of things. How many of those who are spouting 'facts' about Oxford actually went there? How many of you have actually BEENthere in the last, let's say six, months? What's that you say? You HAVENT been there? Your opinion is made up of what you heard? Probably on here, at that? Or perhaps from your mate dave, down the pub?
Do grow up.
Fwiw, what would you have oaa do with the nje cadets that aren't required? I
know how nje have handled this and I have to say they havebeen exemplary.
And my post isn't simlpy conjecture based on whatever personal grievance I
have. Oaa has not 'deserted' any of it's grads, least of all those on mentored schemes. To state they have, when you clearly don't know the facts is only to advertise your own ignorance.
Oxford is like any other training school, it has significant plus points and significant down points, but the thing with oaa is that unlike most other schools 90% of the established 'facts' are actually bull**** that are established only on this site, by people with no first Hand knowledge of the place who don't possess the intellectual. Capacity to analyse both sides and make up their own minds. Or even recognize there IS two sides.
So lets clarify a couple of things. How many of those who are spouting 'facts' about Oxford actually went there? How many of you have actually BEENthere in the last, let's say six, months? What's that you say? You HAVENT been there? Your opinion is made up of what you heard? Probably on here, at that? Or perhaps from your mate dave, down the pub?
Do grow up.
Fwiw, what would you have oaa do with the nje cadets that aren't required? I
know how nje have handled this and I have to say they havebeen exemplary.
And my post isn't simlpy conjecture based on whatever personal grievance I
have. Oaa has not 'deserted' any of it's grads, least of all those on mentored schemes. To state they have, when you clearly don't know the facts is only to advertise your own ignorance.
Oxford is like any other training school, it has significant plus points and significant down points, but the thing with oaa is that unlike most other schools 90% of the established 'facts' are actually bull**** that are established only on this site, by people with no first Hand knowledge of the place who don't possess the intellectual. Capacity to analyse both sides and make up their own minds. Or even recognize there IS two sides.
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Clanger32 I hope you feel better now you have that off your chest.
Are you kidding me? £50K is far more manageable than £80K of debt. That's 38% more loan. There is the straw breaking the camels back and then there is that. That's a steel I bar breaking the camels back. That works out at maybe £400 a month extra. That could be your living costs.
That's your opinion and if you don't like it don't read it. To brand everyones opinion as complet ****e is absurd. Because it doesn't fit your mental model?
You must have alot of time to have worked out that statistic and you haven't been to any other FTO so you couldn't possibly comment on them like you have with 'but the thing with oaa is that unlike most other schools' comment - so you are just as guilty of 'spout I'll founded bile' or should that be ill founded bile?
Settle down and YOU grow up, everyone is entitled to give their opinion and then it is any persons choice to assimilate and take on board what they read.
Is it significantly better to have 'only' spent £50k? I don't think so, but hey
As always pprune throws up a bunch of comments that range from pure ****e to absolut unadulterated ****e
Oxford is like any other training school, it has significant plus points and significant down points, but the thing with oaa is that unlike most other schools 90% of the established 'facts' are actually bull**** that are established only on this site
Settle down and YOU grow up, everyone is entitled to give their opinion and then it is any persons choice to assimilate and take on board what they read.
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1. But none of the Netjets cadets will be going to Netjets and
2. OAA have refuse to help them find a job.
3. OAA say that the cadets are not they problem.
2. OAA have refuse to help them find a job.
3. OAA say that the cadets are not they problem.
2: Only a handful of the remaining cadets have actually graduated so what 'help' do you think OAA can magic up out of thin-air for the non-existent jobs out there?
3: Based on the previous two statements being rubbish, I can only conjecture that you are actually making this up entirely as it is clearly not first-hand information.
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As always PPRuNe throws up a bunch of comments that range from pure ****e to absolut unadulterated ****e. So, an educated way of presenting a case is to look at both sides.
Anyhow i'm not going to post on this thread anymore as it's dangerously close to becoming the dreaded mod v integrated debate.
You pays your money and takes your choice.
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Or even recognize there IS two sides.
side 1: unemployed low time pilot with some money in his pocket (modular).
side 2: unemployed pilot with very low time and lot of debts.(integrated "rip off" school like Oxford)
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I don't know clanger does have some valid points even though they are expressed from maybe a naive loyalty to their own training choices.
Currently their are very few jobs and the couple of people who I know who have got jobs recently have got them through networking.
OAA are at least keeping the graduates IR's current although with the sheer numbers that will be required over the next 2 years this might prove to be an issue.
How NJE is looking after their cadets is purely down to NJE and thankfully they are getting taken care of.
The opinion that OAA has a world wide reputation that is unquestionable is sadly naive. You will get different opinions from current pilots from historical personal opinions very similar to the views on the MPL. It works on which sector of the industry you are in and when the pilot was trained. In my turboprop world which was never the job of choice for a graduate you never really got to see an Integrated graduate. In the last 3 years I have had 2 FO's who were intergrated trained out of about 40. Alot of small TP CP's won't touch a Integrated bod with a like for like CV. The first choice will be a type rating and then instructor's get the first call.
Views on their flying ability compared to the modular trained guys. None really they did the same daft things as each other. Learning curves are very steep on a manual TP, speed control is always an issue, as well as the lack of SA in the terminal environment. The kids who have been gliding from the age of 15 have a good hand feet coordination and the ex instructors have way more capacity when the wx gets pants. After 300 hours and 800 approaches you wouldn't be able to tell who is who.
In this market is paying the undefined "extra" for the school name on your CV going to help you get that first job. Sorry no it isn't. For the guys coming out of the mill now both modular and integrated, life is going to have to be damage limitation of trying to stay current and working out a method that will make you shine compared to the 1500 other cpl/ir's in the next 3 years until things start moving again.
Currently their are very few jobs and the couple of people who I know who have got jobs recently have got them through networking.
OAA are at least keeping the graduates IR's current although with the sheer numbers that will be required over the next 2 years this might prove to be an issue.
How NJE is looking after their cadets is purely down to NJE and thankfully they are getting taken care of.
The opinion that OAA has a world wide reputation that is unquestionable is sadly naive. You will get different opinions from current pilots from historical personal opinions very similar to the views on the MPL. It works on which sector of the industry you are in and when the pilot was trained. In my turboprop world which was never the job of choice for a graduate you never really got to see an Integrated graduate. In the last 3 years I have had 2 FO's who were intergrated trained out of about 40. Alot of small TP CP's won't touch a Integrated bod with a like for like CV. The first choice will be a type rating and then instructor's get the first call.
Views on their flying ability compared to the modular trained guys. None really they did the same daft things as each other. Learning curves are very steep on a manual TP, speed control is always an issue, as well as the lack of SA in the terminal environment. The kids who have been gliding from the age of 15 have a good hand feet coordination and the ex instructors have way more capacity when the wx gets pants. After 300 hours and 800 approaches you wouldn't be able to tell who is who.
In this market is paying the undefined "extra" for the school name on your CV going to help you get that first job. Sorry no it isn't. For the guys coming out of the mill now both modular and integrated, life is going to have to be damage limitation of trying to stay current and working out a method that will make you shine compared to the 1500 other cpl/ir's in the next 3 years until things start moving again.
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Side 3: Employed low hours OAA grad with debts but an income to service those debts. (There are many in this category).
Dear God this thread is a right load of old b-----ks.
If the opening poster asks dumbass open ended questions such as "Are they all employed?" then he can expect answers like the one I gave. Of course not every single OAA grad is employed as a pilot. This is the worst pilot recruiting market for decades and no school can guarantee jobs. Spending a bit more to go to a place lik OAA may improve your employability but if anyone thinks that any amount of money should guarantee a job then they need their head examined.
As for the OAA bashing, if you didn't go then you don't get a vote. Don't go dripping about how bad OAA is and how much it costs on behalf of those who actually did. No-one likes the current recession, but it's not OAA's fault and I don't know any OAA grads who actually have any reasonable complaints about the quality of training provided.
I really shouldn't get sucked in to threads like this, but sometimes the unadulterated axe-grinding bulls--t needs a bit of a counter opinion.
Perhaps if Dartagnan, The Beak, DaraIreland et al would post where they did their training and their post training employment, then we could judge exactly how much credibility their opinions have.
Dear God this thread is a right load of old b-----ks.
And as for:
If they are not employed as pilots then the answer to the question is: NO
Almost all are employed but not all of them as pilots (yet).
As for the OAA bashing, if you didn't go then you don't get a vote. Don't go dripping about how bad OAA is and how much it costs on behalf of those who actually did. No-one likes the current recession, but it's not OAA's fault and I don't know any OAA grads who actually have any reasonable complaints about the quality of training provided.
I really shouldn't get sucked in to threads like this, but sometimes the unadulterated axe-grinding bulls--t needs a bit of a counter opinion.
Perhaps if Dartagnan, The Beak, DaraIreland et al would post where they did their training and their post training employment, then we could judge exactly how much credibility their opinions have.
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I am an ex Oxford person who left around 4 years ago. I am working as an FO with an airline and, last I heard, so are all my old classmates. Interestingly, all 16 of us got our interviews via the "recommendation" system, with the last job coming about 6 months after leaving the place. At least one person in my class got 3 interviews out of Oxford.
Of course, that was 4 years ago, just as the last downturn in low hour jobs was coming to an end, and airlines were desperate.
Why don't most ex-Oxford people post on this forum? Not really that difficult to work out seeing the reaction we usually get if we dare to cite a positive experience.
Dartagnan - are you the same Dartagnan who "spunked money up the wall" on an A320 SSTR and spent loads of time on pprune bleating that no one would employ you?
Of course, that was 4 years ago, just as the last downturn in low hour jobs was coming to an end, and airlines were desperate.
Why don't most ex-Oxford people post on this forum? Not really that difficult to work out seeing the reaction we usually get if we dare to cite a positive experience.
Dartagnan - are you the same Dartagnan who "spunked money up the wall" on an A320 SSTR and spent loads of time on pprune bleating that no one would employ you?
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OK,
So let's start with the basics. Nice pedantry on the picking up of "i'll" where it should have been ill. Did it not even occur to you that even the least erudite person would be unlikely to mistake "I will will" as the correct phrasing for ill will? I doubt it....just something to assert how very clever you are. Well done. Except that I wrote the previous reply on my iphone - which autocorrects "ill" to "I'll". Still, I'll go sit in a corner and consider myself told. Interesting to see if you even have the grace to apologise for that....
Anyhoo, that is a minor point.
I will accept that perhaps the implied labelling all comments as ****e is a touch strong, but perhaps not so much when considered in context of the subject of OAA. Either way, my intention was to not to imply all comments on PPRuNe were ****e, more that OAA illicits more clearly unfounded comment than almost any other topic, with the possible exception of Ryanair.
However, my original statement is nothing to do with it fitting "my mental model" - or more succinctly, perhaps it is...but my mental model is based on facts as I see them. Based on knowing the NJE cadets. Based on having gone there and spent a hell of a lot of time at Kidlington. What is YOUR mental model based on? I note you conveniently fail to answer the more salient point as to what your opinion is based on. As always with these type debates, they devolve to an intellectual arm wrestle. Lets stop that and deal in facts and opinion based on fact, NOT personal opinion, based on what you've read from other people who don't "know". You want to silence me, pick on any of the number of failings OAA has based on fact...not on crap conjecture.
I rather suspect that best case here is that you (The beak) are a serving pilot who chose NOT to go to OAA through any combination of factors pertinent to your own circumstance, perhaps relating on how they conduct their training, the costs, pure personal choice etc. This would at least partly validate your opinion, but it would hardly be unbiased, would it - you are projecting your decisions on to everyone else, regardless of supporting fact.
The worst case is that you are a modular student who has yet to complete (or start); who also chose not to go to OAA. Either way, justify pontificating on OAA if you haven't been there, or been involved with the schemes you are commenting on. THIS is the point. Opinions are offered as fact on the subject of OAA on an alarmingly regular basis, by people who CLEARLY don't know - who are choosing to propagate their own personal view and declare it as fact - perhaps in the thought that if it's repeated oft' enough, it will become fact. To provide some context, the tone and content of the normal OAA "opinion" is as monotonous and unsubstantiated as the 16 year olds who think OAA is a guaranteed passport to BA. Yet, you'd [rightly] rip strips off a 16 year old who said that on these forums.
Those that do know some of the facts (in particular on the NJE comments - witness ILPAS reply) know full well the opinions offered here are often wildly inaccurate. Yet still the bile comes...."OAA do nothing to support their students" "OAA and NJE have dumped all their cadets". Even your mythical figure of £80k - it isn't. It's £70k (which granted, could hardly be considered "cheap"), but it's another great example of how "the facts" don't make for nearly such a sensational story. All of which brings us nicely to the money comments. You are of course right, that it's far worse to be more in debt than less. I fully accept that perhaps my intention of the comment didn't really come across....my point was more that having spent £50k and not having a job is not really a great position either. The bailiffs will come for your home regardless of what that level of debt is and I doubt there's significantly many more that go any other route [than OAA] without taking debt.
You can have whatever opinion you like, but if you choose to post your opinion as fact (and absolute statements such as Baristas are exactly that) then I reserve the right to put forward a more illuminated opinion - i.e. one which has experienced the place in question.
FWIW - OAA has a number of negative points, all of which were illustrated to Anthony Petteford, a number of which he has acted upon, so it is not that I see the place as infallible. Far from it....but the point is that I would seriously suggest that most other FTO's have their crosses to bear also.
edited to say:
glad to see that so many are incapable of seeing my point that posting opinion and calling it fact is indeed ****e. Perhaps I'll start posting that airbii are made of cheese. It's a fact you know. someone who doesn't know anything about them told me so.
Mad Jock - No, I have no particuar blind faith in OAA - I am very aware of their limitations - however, my personal gripe is unbalanced arguments. And that's a speciality of this place. Flower it up with some reasonable English and you don't have to JUSTIFY (god forbid!) your comments, or provide a balancing argument...you just have to slate hard enough. For example - why is this thread about "where are the OAA grads". This implies that OAA grads are hit far worse by this crises than anyone from Cabair, FTE, CTC, Aeros, Atlantic, PTC, BFC and so on. This is not the truth...anyone that's just recently got their licence is ****ting it right now and as you correctly state, the objective is damage limitation.
So let's start with the basics. Nice pedantry on the picking up of "i'll" where it should have been ill. Did it not even occur to you that even the least erudite person would be unlikely to mistake "I will will" as the correct phrasing for ill will? I doubt it....just something to assert how very clever you are. Well done. Except that I wrote the previous reply on my iphone - which autocorrects "ill" to "I'll". Still, I'll go sit in a corner and consider myself told. Interesting to see if you even have the grace to apologise for that....
Anyhoo, that is a minor point.
I will accept that perhaps the implied labelling all comments as ****e is a touch strong, but perhaps not so much when considered in context of the subject of OAA. Either way, my intention was to not to imply all comments on PPRuNe were ****e, more that OAA illicits more clearly unfounded comment than almost any other topic, with the possible exception of Ryanair.
However, my original statement is nothing to do with it fitting "my mental model" - or more succinctly, perhaps it is...but my mental model is based on facts as I see them. Based on knowing the NJE cadets. Based on having gone there and spent a hell of a lot of time at Kidlington. What is YOUR mental model based on? I note you conveniently fail to answer the more salient point as to what your opinion is based on. As always with these type debates, they devolve to an intellectual arm wrestle. Lets stop that and deal in facts and opinion based on fact, NOT personal opinion, based on what you've read from other people who don't "know". You want to silence me, pick on any of the number of failings OAA has based on fact...not on crap conjecture.
I rather suspect that best case here is that you (The beak) are a serving pilot who chose NOT to go to OAA through any combination of factors pertinent to your own circumstance, perhaps relating on how they conduct their training, the costs, pure personal choice etc. This would at least partly validate your opinion, but it would hardly be unbiased, would it - you are projecting your decisions on to everyone else, regardless of supporting fact.
The worst case is that you are a modular student who has yet to complete (or start); who also chose not to go to OAA. Either way, justify pontificating on OAA if you haven't been there, or been involved with the schemes you are commenting on. THIS is the point. Opinions are offered as fact on the subject of OAA on an alarmingly regular basis, by people who CLEARLY don't know - who are choosing to propagate their own personal view and declare it as fact - perhaps in the thought that if it's repeated oft' enough, it will become fact. To provide some context, the tone and content of the normal OAA "opinion" is as monotonous and unsubstantiated as the 16 year olds who think OAA is a guaranteed passport to BA. Yet, you'd [rightly] rip strips off a 16 year old who said that on these forums.
Those that do know some of the facts (in particular on the NJE comments - witness ILPAS reply) know full well the opinions offered here are often wildly inaccurate. Yet still the bile comes...."OAA do nothing to support their students" "OAA and NJE have dumped all their cadets". Even your mythical figure of £80k - it isn't. It's £70k (which granted, could hardly be considered "cheap"), but it's another great example of how "the facts" don't make for nearly such a sensational story. All of which brings us nicely to the money comments. You are of course right, that it's far worse to be more in debt than less. I fully accept that perhaps my intention of the comment didn't really come across....my point was more that having spent £50k and not having a job is not really a great position either. The bailiffs will come for your home regardless of what that level of debt is and I doubt there's significantly many more that go any other route [than OAA] without taking debt.
You can have whatever opinion you like, but if you choose to post your opinion as fact (and absolute statements such as Baristas are exactly that) then I reserve the right to put forward a more illuminated opinion - i.e. one which has experienced the place in question.
FWIW - OAA has a number of negative points, all of which were illustrated to Anthony Petteford, a number of which he has acted upon, so it is not that I see the place as infallible. Far from it....but the point is that I would seriously suggest that most other FTO's have their crosses to bear also.
edited to say:
glad to see that so many are incapable of seeing my point that posting opinion and calling it fact is indeed ****e. Perhaps I'll start posting that airbii are made of cheese. It's a fact you know. someone who doesn't know anything about them told me so.
Mad Jock - No, I have no particuar blind faith in OAA - I am very aware of their limitations - however, my personal gripe is unbalanced arguments. And that's a speciality of this place. Flower it up with some reasonable English and you don't have to JUSTIFY (god forbid!) your comments, or provide a balancing argument...you just have to slate hard enough. For example - why is this thread about "where are the OAA grads". This implies that OAA grads are hit far worse by this crises than anyone from Cabair, FTE, CTC, Aeros, Atlantic, PTC, BFC and so on. This is not the truth...anyone that's just recently got their licence is ****ting it right now and as you correctly state, the objective is damage limitation.