flight school show / fair at Heathrow ?
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flight school show / fair at Heathrow ?
Hello,
I heard about a "fair" at Heathrow on the 25th of April where it is possible to meet flight schools, airlines etc.
Can anyone tell more about this ?
Thank you,
Seb
I heard about a "fair" at Heathrow on the 25th of April where it is possible to meet flight schools, airlines etc.
Can anyone tell more about this ?
Thank you,
Seb
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All you need to know here...
FLYER Exhibition - 25th April 2009 - Sofitel LHR T5
FLYER Exhibition - 25th April 2009 - Sofitel LHR T5
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If anyone goes please report back how many people tell you....
1. that there will be a pilot shortage soon.
2. Its never been better to start training
3. In this time of woe its better to go Intergrated than modular.
And to pay Ģ8.50 to listen to a bunch of marketing spin is a bit cheeky
1. that there will be a pilot shortage soon.
2. Its never been better to start training
3. In this time of woe its better to go Intergrated than modular.
And to pay Ģ8.50 to listen to a bunch of marketing spin is a bit cheeky
I work at Heathrow and am currently in the middle of doing my modular training. I have a free car park space and a free bus that takes me from the staff car park to the place where the 'Flight Training Show' is being held. I also live about 15 minutes away.
I have been here 2 years and have yet to get enough enthusiasm together to attend one of these. The way i see it the airlines do not need to advertise jobs as there are so many pilots looking for work. The FTO's however do need to advertise and will be there in force.
Im not going to be going integrated. I know when/where im doing my modular training based on going to the places and looking around. I dont see any point talking to any airlines about job vacancies or at least 18 months.
If you have the cash and can't decide where to go for integrated training then i could see it would be interesting but other than that i dont really see the point.
I have been here 2 years and have yet to get enough enthusiasm together to attend one of these. The way i see it the airlines do not need to advertise jobs as there are so many pilots looking for work. The FTO's however do need to advertise and will be there in force.
Im not going to be going integrated. I know when/where im doing my modular training based on going to the places and looking around. I dont see any point talking to any airlines about job vacancies or at least 18 months.
If you have the cash and can't decide where to go for integrated training then i could see it would be interesting but other than that i dont really see the point.
What a load of toss these fairs are. Don't get sucked in folks.
If you have the cash and can't decide where to go for integrated training
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The last one I went to, I made my entrance fee back by buying a discounted CRP-5 and oxford Met CD-ROM from the transair stand.
I'd say it's worth going, but you have to bear in mind that the FTOs really want your money, so will be saying things about how many vacancies there are.
If you're about to start training, it's really quite useful.
I'd say it's worth going, but you have to bear in mind that the FTOs really want your money, so will be saying things about how many vacancies there are.
If you're about to start training, it's really quite useful.
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As I will never darken the door of a FTO again or one of these shows.
I only went to one and didn't pay to get in and it was bollocks.
The amount of crap that was being talked could have de-iced a runway.
We have a 100% pass rate. eh I saw old Partial up in Leeds fail one of yours 2 weeks ago. Yes well 100% in the first series you do realise this show is for students who haven't started training yet?
BA only take Integrated Graduates eh how come 6 FO's from Eastern have just started with BA with under 1000 hours all modular trained. 35k for there training and 6k paying off thier bond. Err thats for low hour cadets h'mmm experienced multi crew pilots are different.
There is going to be a shortage of pilots soon.
We have links to industry
We run as an unofficial first line recruitment screening for xxxx airline.
We have the best pass rate in the UK. Well do you want to go and have a word with 3 schools along there because they reckon they have the highest as well.
We have a state of the art simulator. No you don't you have a FNPT II and I bet its ****e like all the rest.
And the reason why you are visiting the schools is because
There ultra modern fleet turns out to be 2 shagged dutchess one of which is a spares queen. By the way nothing wrong with a shagged dutchess if the price is right.
All our planes are de-iced. Little did they tell you if you want this option it will cost you an extra 80quid an hour in fluid.
The general feel of the school.
The instructors are they pissed off with the managment.
The students who are training just now what are they saying.
Are they happy for you to talk to current students. Or do you have to grab one when they outside having a fag.
Is there lots of people sitting around waiting for training slots or aircraft.
Instructor Student ratio.
One of the biggest selling points for the show is the schools who arn't there. They are the ones who get more than enough punters through the door through word of mouth from happy customers. When you phone up they won't be able to give you a start date for a couple of months if not more.
But then again if your a dreamer and like being fluffed by these marketing gimps, fill your boots. Ģ8.50 for 3 hours of being pandered to and being told everything is sunny in your never never world which you think is aviation must be money well spent.
And no I don't think its worth you coming over. You must be getting on for 300euros from Denmark, a night in a hotel in Heathrow 50 quid in the holiday Inn if your lucky. Ģ8.50 for the "show" which is a bloody good term for it. That's 3 hours into your PPL wasted.
I only went to one and didn't pay to get in and it was bollocks.
The amount of crap that was being talked could have de-iced a runway.
We have a 100% pass rate. eh I saw old Partial up in Leeds fail one of yours 2 weeks ago. Yes well 100% in the first series you do realise this show is for students who haven't started training yet?
BA only take Integrated Graduates eh how come 6 FO's from Eastern have just started with BA with under 1000 hours all modular trained. 35k for there training and 6k paying off thier bond. Err thats for low hour cadets h'mmm experienced multi crew pilots are different.
There is going to be a shortage of pilots soon.
We have links to industry
We run as an unofficial first line recruitment screening for xxxx airline.
We have the best pass rate in the UK. Well do you want to go and have a word with 3 schools along there because they reckon they have the highest as well.
We have a state of the art simulator. No you don't you have a FNPT II and I bet its ****e like all the rest.
And the reason why you are visiting the schools is because
There ultra modern fleet turns out to be 2 shagged dutchess one of which is a spares queen. By the way nothing wrong with a shagged dutchess if the price is right.
All our planes are de-iced. Little did they tell you if you want this option it will cost you an extra 80quid an hour in fluid.
The general feel of the school.
The instructors are they pissed off with the managment.
The students who are training just now what are they saying.
Are they happy for you to talk to current students. Or do you have to grab one when they outside having a fag.
Is there lots of people sitting around waiting for training slots or aircraft.
Instructor Student ratio.
One of the biggest selling points for the show is the schools who arn't there. They are the ones who get more than enough punters through the door through word of mouth from happy customers. When you phone up they won't be able to give you a start date for a couple of months if not more.
But then again if your a dreamer and like being fluffed by these marketing gimps, fill your boots. Ģ8.50 for 3 hours of being pandered to and being told everything is sunny in your never never world which you think is aviation must be money well spent.
And no I don't think its worth you coming over. You must be getting on for 300euros from Denmark, a night in a hotel in Heathrow 50 quid in the holiday Inn if your lucky. Ģ8.50 for the "show" which is a bloody good term for it. That's 3 hours into your PPL wasted.
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Nicely put mad_jock!
I was at an FTE one speaking to them about their partnership with FlyBE and when my father questioned them on the low amount of money left after the training costs were taking from my wages the only thing they could reply was "Eh... I get past ok"
I was at an FTE one speaking to them about their partnership with FlyBE and when my father questioned them on the low amount of money left after the training costs were taking from my wages the only thing they could reply was "Eh... I get past ok"
Madjock & preduk, your logic is baffling.
Here is the ONLY show dedicated to professional flight training in the UK, offering the opportunity for individuals to meet representatives from all of the major FTOs; speak with airline representatives and industry observers, who give up their spare time, free of charge, and you both have the temerity to declare the event a waste of time?
Yes, the FTOs will probably spin you a tale that makes their FTO look the be-all and end-all. What else would you expect from them? A pinch of salt and application of common sense should help one see through their sales pitch.
Rubbish. You've got the three largest and most successful FTOs in Europe at the show, alongside a high percentage of the remainder.
Aside from the schools, what about the likes of the Guild of Air Pilots and Air Navigators (GAPAN), who give up their spare time to offer impartial advice and take you through an aptitude test, free of charge?
What about the airline reps who are there to offer impartial advice? Yes, their presentations may be a little dry and in some cases misleading when they state that they don't take ab-initio cadets and then do just that a couple of weeks later, but you need to understand that airlines tend to operate around a two-week time frame when it comes to recruitment, so they can only sing from the company hymn sheet at the time of the presentation. However, there is nothing to stop individuals talking to them after their presentations in order to get a more personal, off-the-record point of view.
Nothing beats research and it is vital that prospective students visit schools and talk to instructors and students before making any sort of commitment, but before going down that route the Flyer show offers a unique opportunity to meet most of the larger FTOs under one roof. Seems a no brainer to me.
Seb, it's a long way to come, but could save you some money in the long run. If you're thinking of undertaking your training with a UK-based FTO then perhaps you could use the show as a starting point of a tour round the UK? The show, at least, should help in figuring out who to visit.
jez
P.S. I have no affliation with the Flyer Show, or any FTO.
Here is the ONLY show dedicated to professional flight training in the UK, offering the opportunity for individuals to meet representatives from all of the major FTOs; speak with airline representatives and industry observers, who give up their spare time, free of charge, and you both have the temerity to declare the event a waste of time?
Yes, the FTOs will probably spin you a tale that makes their FTO look the be-all and end-all. What else would you expect from them? A pinch of salt and application of common sense should help one see through their sales pitch.
One of the biggest selling points for the show is the schools who arn't there. They are the ones who get more than enough punters through the door through word of mouth from happy customers. When you phone up they won't be able to give you a start date for a couple of months if not more.
Aside from the schools, what about the likes of the Guild of Air Pilots and Air Navigators (GAPAN), who give up their spare time to offer impartial advice and take you through an aptitude test, free of charge?
What about the airline reps who are there to offer impartial advice? Yes, their presentations may be a little dry and in some cases misleading when they state that they don't take ab-initio cadets and then do just that a couple of weeks later, but you need to understand that airlines tend to operate around a two-week time frame when it comes to recruitment, so they can only sing from the company hymn sheet at the time of the presentation. However, there is nothing to stop individuals talking to them after their presentations in order to get a more personal, off-the-record point of view.
Nothing beats research and it is vital that prospective students visit schools and talk to instructors and students before making any sort of commitment, but before going down that route the Flyer show offers a unique opportunity to meet most of the larger FTOs under one roof. Seems a no brainer to me.
Seb, it's a long way to come, but could save you some money in the long run. If you're thinking of undertaking your training with a UK-based FTO then perhaps you could use the show as a starting point of a tour round the UK? The show, at least, should help in figuring out who to visit.
jez
P.S. I have no affliation with the Flyer Show, or any FTO.
mad_jock, you will get all those comments if you visit ANY FTO individually.
At least at the Flyer exhibition you get them all at once and, because you here them all say it, you should then be able to recognise what is b*ll and what is genuine
At least at the Flyer exhibition you get them all at once and, because you here them all say it, you should then be able to recognise what is b*ll and what is genuine
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Personally I fear for the significant number of individuals who get sucked in by the hype, and for whom the horrible reality of the potential jobs market is just an uncomfortable truth.
The FTO's (and most are the same I hasten to add) have all had pieces in various flying magazines over the last 6 months saying there has never been a better time to train blah, blah, blah.
They should not be allowed to be irresponsible in using forecasts and predictions to encourage people to spend vast sums of money, simply because they cannot forsee credit crunches, 9/11, vast fuel price fluctuations.
I have never been to one of these fairs as I have never seen the need, but I would encourage anyone who does go to concentrate on facts not spin.
Facilities, pass rates, exam results, accomodation, training costs, fine fill your boots asking as much as you can think of (most of which I would argue could be obtained from the internet or a few phone calls).
Predictions for the most turbulent aviation jobs market in years with the fastest unemployment rise in years, global credit crunch, significant numbers of unemployed qualified pilots need to be taken with a pinch of salt.
Would I travel from abroad for it, in my opinion, the cost of the ticket could be far better spent.
Obs
The FTO's (and most are the same I hasten to add) have all had pieces in various flying magazines over the last 6 months saying there has never been a better time to train blah, blah, blah.
They should not be allowed to be irresponsible in using forecasts and predictions to encourage people to spend vast sums of money, simply because they cannot forsee credit crunches, 9/11, vast fuel price fluctuations.
I have never been to one of these fairs as I have never seen the need, but I would encourage anyone who does go to concentrate on facts not spin.
Facilities, pass rates, exam results, accomodation, training costs, fine fill your boots asking as much as you can think of (most of which I would argue could be obtained from the internet or a few phone calls).
Predictions for the most turbulent aviation jobs market in years with the fastest unemployment rise in years, global credit crunch, significant numbers of unemployed qualified pilots need to be taken with a pinch of salt.
Would I travel from abroad for it, in my opinion, the cost of the ticket could be far better spent.
Obs
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The three largest and what you think the most successful which I would disagree with are the worst for telling outright fibs through marketing spin to wannabies.
And you don't get that spin at some FTO's when I choose Leeds it was because when I asked about there students job success they were very truthful about it. I think the words were "the market is a bit w
k just now (it was just after Sept 11th)" said in a macum accent. But your plans a good one about doing the FIC. Talk to the boys over there they have just completed thier CPL's. Have you been told about the crap wx at Leeds yet?
Went up the road to multiflight and got handed a rubbish photo copy of a pricelist everything minus vat. Got made to wait for 20mins to speak to someone. Never was allowed into the inner sanctum were the real students were all sitting around. But you could start in a weeks time.
Back up the road to LFS 3 month waiting list a quick go in the the FNPT I, booked my start date.
But you boys crack on I have learnt over the years that common sense and wannabies don't mix with those special shades you wear. I have been told before I am talking bollocks when it comes to flight training but then again there are still people posting on this forum who were wannabies when I started training. Now I am in the LHS flying the line with the only debt being my morgage and have never been unemployed as a pilot, I did my first trial flight as an Instructor the day my license got delivered.
Fabbe92 if your interested my plan just now would be.
1. Class one medical
2. PPL at Highland Flying school. Or have a look at NewZealand or South Africa.
3. Ground school with Bristol Ground school or Oxford distance
4. Hour building in South Africa or if the exchange rate stays as it is at Highland and take the tomahawk away on a round UK trip visiting all the CPL,IR schools.
5. CPL/IR at which ever suits: Exeter,Tayflight,Tayside, the other lot in Bournemouth not Cabair.
6. MCC with who ever is the cheapest unfortunatley WWW never started his MCC course using 2 beer crates and a couple of broom handels for the sim. But I am sure you get the drift of the the level of hardware required. Its a tick in the box course which most operators don't care what you have done it in.
In 2000-2001 I did all my training including FIC for 35K Now I reckon it will be in the region of 40K if you are canny.
The first lesson to learn in aviation is that you get **** all for free. Those cadet FO's will have been blackmailed into going either by the promise of free food and booze or the slightly naive idea that they will get brownie points with the Ops director. They will learn though that brownie points equal 0.00001p when push comes to shove.
And you don't get that spin at some FTO's when I choose Leeds it was because when I asked about there students job success they were very truthful about it. I think the words were "the market is a bit w
k just now (it was just after Sept 11th)" said in a macum accent. But your plans a good one about doing the FIC. Talk to the boys over there they have just completed thier CPL's. Have you been told about the crap wx at Leeds yet?Went up the road to multiflight and got handed a rubbish photo copy of a pricelist everything minus vat. Got made to wait for 20mins to speak to someone. Never was allowed into the inner sanctum were the real students were all sitting around. But you could start in a weeks time.
Back up the road to LFS 3 month waiting list a quick go in the the FNPT I, booked my start date.
But you boys crack on I have learnt over the years that common sense and wannabies don't mix with those special shades you wear. I have been told before I am talking bollocks when it comes to flight training but then again there are still people posting on this forum who were wannabies when I started training. Now I am in the LHS flying the line with the only debt being my morgage and have never been unemployed as a pilot, I did my first trial flight as an Instructor the day my license got delivered.
Fabbe92 if your interested my plan just now would be.
1. Class one medical
2. PPL at Highland Flying school. Or have a look at NewZealand or South Africa.
3. Ground school with Bristol Ground school or Oxford distance
4. Hour building in South Africa or if the exchange rate stays as it is at Highland and take the tomahawk away on a round UK trip visiting all the CPL,IR schools.
5. CPL/IR at which ever suits: Exeter,Tayflight,Tayside, the other lot in Bournemouth not Cabair.
6. MCC with who ever is the cheapest unfortunatley WWW never started his MCC course using 2 beer crates and a couple of broom handels for the sim. But I am sure you get the drift of the the level of hardware required. Its a tick in the box course which most operators don't care what you have done it in.
In 2000-2001 I did all my training including FIC for 35K Now I reckon it will be in the region of 40K if you are canny.
The first lesson to learn in aviation is that you get **** all for free. Those cadet FO's will have been blackmailed into going either by the promise of free food and booze or the slightly naive idea that they will get brownie points with the Ops director. They will learn though that brownie points equal 0.00001p when push comes to shove.
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I have applyed for BFSAA which will give me the CPL for free if I get in so end of story. I have come to the conclusion that this is the only way since I donīt have the money needed for Oxford. And I want to have money for my TR after training.
But since you think that it is a misstake to go to Oxford integrated etc. What do you have to say to a guy I know who went to Oxford and now work for BMI? Did he do a misstake?
Cheers
But since you think that it is a misstake to go to Oxford integrated etc. What do you have to say to a guy I know who went to Oxford and now work for BMI? Did he do a misstake?
Cheers
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Well personally I wouldn't do it. BMI and BA never featured in my plans.
But its up to the individual it depends on how much debt he is still in and how much disposable income he has.
If he managed to jump through the hoops of a BMI assessment I suspect that he would have had no probs with any other operators recruitment process and it wouldn't matter how he did his training. Only difference is he is looking at 70k-100k's worth of money to repay, 10-15 years to command and if unlucky the additional hit of paying the cost of living in London. But if he is happy it was the right choice for him.
But its up to the individual it depends on how much debt he is still in and how much disposable income he has.
If he managed to jump through the hoops of a BMI assessment I suspect that he would have had no probs with any other operators recruitment process and it wouldn't matter how he did his training. Only difference is he is looking at 70k-100k's worth of money to repay, 10-15 years to command and if unlucky the additional hit of paying the cost of living in London. But if he is happy it was the right choice for him.
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Just to give you a bit of history.
In the old days before JAR Intergrated was a defined product which did allow you to bypass the BCPL to go directly to the RHS of a multicrew commercial aircraft. It was marketed as that and provided what it said on the tin.
After JAR its role in the training industry became very less secure as the license that you gained by doing both routes was exactly the same. A few operators decided to stick with what they knew and continued to recruit from Intergrated graduates only. Over the years econmics have changed and the old boys have retired and the Intergrated schools have lost there old boy networks. Modular graduates have got jobs in expanding regional operators who's training departments were made up of a mish mash of nationalitys and had significantly higher percentage of self improver/modular trained trainers. The old legacy airlines bean counters have worked out its more economic to hire from the regionals from current trained pilots. Again the modular guys do ok if not better and it dilutes the arguments that Intergrated are the best.
The Intergrated schools have now lost the market for the only way to be employed as a sub 300 hour FO. The marketing is getting desperate and some would say unethical.
For about 2 third's of wannabies the choice of where they are going to go is made up by either their parents or their financial situation. There are alot of young kids who really do believe that they will walk straight into a job after leaving integrated and are quite willing to put the whole of the thier familys combined capital on the line.
To be honest the posts I make arn't for these kids. Its the mums and dads who read pprune and the more mature wannabies who have a bit of life experience who can think for themselves. I have met a family who had decided that thier kid wasn't getting their house as collateral for an Oxford loan due to a discussion on PPrune. They were in discussing modular route. The kid was of course throwing a tantrum, it did make me smile when they produce the print out of the thread and the posts which were highlighted were WWW's and mine.
In the old days before JAR Intergrated was a defined product which did allow you to bypass the BCPL to go directly to the RHS of a multicrew commercial aircraft. It was marketed as that and provided what it said on the tin.
After JAR its role in the training industry became very less secure as the license that you gained by doing both routes was exactly the same. A few operators decided to stick with what they knew and continued to recruit from Intergrated graduates only. Over the years econmics have changed and the old boys have retired and the Intergrated schools have lost there old boy networks. Modular graduates have got jobs in expanding regional operators who's training departments were made up of a mish mash of nationalitys and had significantly higher percentage of self improver/modular trained trainers. The old legacy airlines bean counters have worked out its more economic to hire from the regionals from current trained pilots. Again the modular guys do ok if not better and it dilutes the arguments that Intergrated are the best.
The Intergrated schools have now lost the market for the only way to be employed as a sub 300 hour FO. The marketing is getting desperate and some would say unethical.
For about 2 third's of wannabies the choice of where they are going to go is made up by either their parents or their financial situation. There are alot of young kids who really do believe that they will walk straight into a job after leaving integrated and are quite willing to put the whole of the thier familys combined capital on the line.
To be honest the posts I make arn't for these kids. Its the mums and dads who read pprune and the more mature wannabies who have a bit of life experience who can think for themselves. I have met a family who had decided that thier kid wasn't getting their house as collateral for an Oxford loan due to a discussion on PPrune. They were in discussing modular route. The kid was of course throwing a tantrum, it did make me smile when they produce the print out of the thread and the posts which were highlighted were WWW's and mine.