flight school show / fair at Heathrow ?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toulouse, France
Age: 44
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well I figure the best way to make ones mind is to attend the show, being cautious with the schools with too many supersexy models as representatives.
Anyway it will be the perfect place to train my academic English, and I will combine the trip with class 1 medical exam, sight seeing (guess schools are closed on Sunday ?), and a road trip in the countryside to visit schools.
If anyone s interested we could share the drive,
Seb
Anyway it will be the perfect place to train my academic English, and I will combine the trip with class 1 medical exam, sight seeing (guess schools are closed on Sunday ?), and a road trip in the countryside to visit schools.
If anyone s interested we could share the drive,
Seb
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
if its 145 he will be working for Regional BMI which is a completley different kettle of Fish to mainline BMI.
Mainline BMI one of the senior Captains involved in recruiting wife used to work at OAT as a ground instructor and it was all stitched up in thier favour. But with the Lufty buyout and other changes it won't be long until they suss out that training low hour pilots is a revenue stream like all the others.
They haven't recruited a single graduate from OAT this year.
By far the greatest employer of oxford grads is Ryan Air which as we know will take anyone with a pulse a license and money for a type rating.
BA is next which is the only company they can honestly say Intergrated has sole access to for intial jobs. But its only 36 jobs.
Then Flybe who are only recruiting direct entry Captains at the moment. And will take modular with no probs at all.
Mainline BMI one of the senior Captains involved in recruiting wife used to work at OAT as a ground instructor and it was all stitched up in thier favour. But with the Lufty buyout and other changes it won't be long until they suss out that training low hour pilots is a revenue stream like all the others.
They haven't recruited a single graduate from OAT this year.
By far the greatest employer of oxford grads is Ryan Air which as we know will take anyone with a pulse a license and money for a type rating.
BA is next which is the only company they can honestly say Intergrated has sole access to for intial jobs. But its only 36 jobs.
Then Flybe who are only recruiting direct entry Captains at the moment. And will take modular with no probs at all.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Biggleswade
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They should not be allowed to be irresponsible in using forecasts and predictions to encourage people to spend vast sums of money, simply because they cannot forsee credit crunches, 9/11, vast fuel price fluctuations.
New poster here....but I am getting more than frustrated at those individuals who are criticising the FTOs for not being able to predict fuel price fluctuations, credit crunches, etc. I wonder how many of these critics are able to forecast next weekend's lottery numbers with the same accuracy??
New poster here....but I am getting more than frustrated at those individuals who are criticising the FTOs for not being able to predict fuel price fluctuations, credit crunches, etc. I wonder how many of these critics are able to forecast next weekend's lottery numbers with the same accuracy??
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: UK
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with many here. Nothing has really changed in the last 10 years. An integrated course is a 'higher' qualification than modular in the eyes of most airlines. It is still by far the best way if your ambition is to walk out of flight school and straight into a jet job. I know that isn't happening right now but in 2 years time I think it will start happening again. I appreciate that many can't afford integrated, and there are many equally able pilots coming through the modular route, but my advice is if you can afford it and want a conventional airline career, integrated is still best IF you can afford it and won't bankrupt your family if you can't get a job for a couple of years.
Don't forget that in 2 1/2 years time the age legislation will be 5 years old ie) many pilots will be reaching 60 and how many are really going to carry on past 60? Nobody really knows but hopefully many will retire or at least go part time. There will hopefully be a retirement bulge just as the economy picks up and that should mean lots of recruitment. I know it seems a long way off in the current climate but Willie Walsh as publicly said he expects the downturn to last 2 years. Perhaps I wouldn't start training right now but maybe give it a year and aim to graduate in Autumn 2011 and that should be about right I think. In a year's time we should have a better outlook.
Of course if we see more redundancies in the UK between now and then that may slow things down a bit, but fingers crossed we will be able to ride this out.
Also if you look at the number of people who post the same questions over and over again on this forum it shows that the flyer exhibition is a great way for some one considering an airline career to get these questions answered directly by the airlines and FTOs. It's a good place to start your research. So I would advise people to go. And those complaining about spending £8.50 well for %**&%s sake how much are you planning to spend on a course? £50-100k? I think the cost is irrelevant.
Don't forget that in 2 1/2 years time the age legislation will be 5 years old ie) many pilots will be reaching 60 and how many are really going to carry on past 60? Nobody really knows but hopefully many will retire or at least go part time. There will hopefully be a retirement bulge just as the economy picks up and that should mean lots of recruitment. I know it seems a long way off in the current climate but Willie Walsh as publicly said he expects the downturn to last 2 years. Perhaps I wouldn't start training right now but maybe give it a year and aim to graduate in Autumn 2011 and that should be about right I think. In a year's time we should have a better outlook.
Of course if we see more redundancies in the UK between now and then that may slow things down a bit, but fingers crossed we will be able to ride this out.
Also if you look at the number of people who post the same questions over and over again on this forum it shows that the flyer exhibition is a great way for some one considering an airline career to get these questions answered directly by the airlines and FTOs. It's a good place to start your research. So I would advise people to go. And those complaining about spending £8.50 well for %**&%s sake how much are you planning to spend on a course? £50-100k? I think the cost is irrelevant.
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can you please list the "most airlines"
The hiring playing field is way more level than you think. And for some surprising company's the playing field has been reversed. Due to the fact that the ex instructors who are usually modular trained have migrated towards the training department. They get roped into the interviews and its human nature when there is no other deciding factors to choose someone with a similar back ground to yourself.
To be honest I would do it myself and not feel guilty afterwards.
I wouldn't go as far as some and filter the CV pile before the CP gets to look at it but it does go on.
The hiring playing field is way more level than you think. And for some surprising company's the playing field has been reversed. Due to the fact that the ex instructors who are usually modular trained have migrated towards the training department. They get roped into the interviews and its human nature when there is no other deciding factors to choose someone with a similar back ground to yourself.
To be honest I would do it myself and not feel guilty afterwards.
I wouldn't go as far as some and filter the CV pile before the CP gets to look at it but it does go on.
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,091
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I went to the Flyer show to see schools for my flying training, and I must say I found it a rather good few hours to spend. Sure, there are those schools who clearly polish their stories, and in my experience they were targeting the parents more than the potential students. I recall sitting with one of the senior Oxford chaps who spotted a well-heeled father, mother and son, and stopped talking to me so he could get his hands on the family. We then re-convened as a group, with me the late 20's guy with the 18 year old who was about to leave school. No doubt he's working for BA today! Make sure you check the ring is still on your finger, the watch is on your wrist, and keep your wallet in your inside pocket after shaking their hands.
It was a great opportunity to meet the majority of schools in a single hall. After meeting them all, I made a short-list and then went to visit the schools in person. I instantly had a rapport with the CFI of PAT, and I did eventually train with the school - no nonesense, no fluff, just straight to the point. It was an opportunity to sort the good from bad, and see the styles employed and figure out if I could get on with their culture. I saw that I wouldn't really get along in OATS as the style and culture would take some adaption - mind you, that's good training for being an FO, as adapting to others is a crucial part of the job! I guess I didn't want to pay for it.
So, it is a good show if you need to see the whole gambit of available training providers, and make your choice.
It was a great opportunity to meet the majority of schools in a single hall. After meeting them all, I made a short-list and then went to visit the schools in person. I instantly had a rapport with the CFI of PAT, and I did eventually train with the school - no nonesense, no fluff, just straight to the point. It was an opportunity to sort the good from bad, and see the styles employed and figure out if I could get on with their culture. I saw that I wouldn't really get along in OATS as the style and culture would take some adaption - mind you, that's good training for being an FO, as adapting to others is a crucial part of the job! I guess I didn't want to pay for it.
So, it is a good show if you need to see the whole gambit of available training providers, and make your choice.
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just seen on another thread that BMI are taking paying pilots to sit in the RHS as cadets as part of a type rating and line training deal.
Wonder when BA will start doing the same thing? 100 wannabies a year at 25k each thats a nice little turn over of 2.5 million a year. Virtually all of that would be profit as well. Sad thing is most of you are daft enough to go for it if you could get the cash together.
Wonder when BA will start doing the same thing? 100 wannabies a year at 25k each thats a nice little turn over of 2.5 million a year. Virtually all of that would be profit as well. Sad thing is most of you are daft enough to go for it if you could get the cash together.
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Manchester
Posts: 319
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What the FTOs don't want you to read
"The Hard Sell
Despite what the schools will often tell you, there is not a shortage of pilots in the industry, nor are there signs of one occurring soon. There may, however, be a shortage of experienced pilots, those who have several thousand hours flying commercial jet aircraft. There is a stark difference between the two, and unfortunately most people who finish their flight training, even from the mainstream schools who claim to have good connections with airlines, often find themselves unable to even apply for the vast majority of jobs because they lack the experience required. This is something which the training schools will never admit to, but you will need to be prepared for.
Bridging the gap between qualifying and gaining employment is fraught with difficulties, and often requires buying expensive additional training in the hope of finding a job. You need to think very carefully before you enroll on a flight training course, and decide whether you can afford to finish the course and not find a job. Getting onto an airline sponsored scheme where a job is offered upon completion may be the safest way, but there will be fierce competition for places on such schemes."
Source: British Airline Pilots Association
"The Hard Sell
Despite what the schools will often tell you, there is not a shortage of pilots in the industry, nor are there signs of one occurring soon. There may, however, be a shortage of experienced pilots, those who have several thousand hours flying commercial jet aircraft. There is a stark difference between the two, and unfortunately most people who finish their flight training, even from the mainstream schools who claim to have good connections with airlines, often find themselves unable to even apply for the vast majority of jobs because they lack the experience required. This is something which the training schools will never admit to, but you will need to be prepared for.
Bridging the gap between qualifying and gaining employment is fraught with difficulties, and often requires buying expensive additional training in the hope of finding a job. You need to think very carefully before you enroll on a flight training course, and decide whether you can afford to finish the course and not find a job. Getting onto an airline sponsored scheme where a job is offered upon completion may be the safest way, but there will be fierce competition for places on such schemes."
Source: British Airline Pilots Association
The Flyer Show is okay for people who haven't the inclination to visit FTOs to see the training set up for themselves. It's a bit like window shopping or choosing an FTO based on the quality of their websites. It's a bit superficial, but some people make all their decisions based on marketing BS.
I don't remember there being more then a handful of Airlines present, if that. I think you'll find Flybe and BA present, which is odd because neither of them take 250 hr pilots except via their affiliated Integrated FTOs, so they're hardly touting for applicants.
The talks by the likes of Ryanair and Netjets are interesting provided you look past the marketing BS.
The RAF, various foreign Modular FTOs, a few Pilot Associations and people like Transair Pilot Shop are usual present.
I don't remember there being more then a handful of Airlines present, if that. I think you'll find Flybe and BA present, which is odd because neither of them take 250 hr pilots except via their affiliated Integrated FTOs, so they're hardly touting for applicants.
The talks by the likes of Ryanair and Netjets are interesting provided you look past the marketing BS.
The RAF, various foreign Modular FTOs, a few Pilot Associations and people like Transair Pilot Shop are usual present.
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: uk
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flyer Show
I for one am old enough and wise enough to make my own decisions about how, where and when I am going to undertake my flight training!
Frankly, some of the opinions on this thread just say to me that there are a lot of disgruntled people who spend far to much time on this site (500+ posts), stirring up negative cr*p all of the time - do you have nothing else better to do with your lives??
I for one will be attending the flyer show as someone else quite rightly put "its the ONLY dedicated flight training exhibition in the UK" and I also see it as an opportunity to meet a large number of FTO's without having to trek the length and breadth of the country to see them individually!
Granted, I will take the marketing hype with a pinch of salt but as I say, I can make my own decisions and at 8.50 thats just the price of a couple of pints these days.....hardly going to break the bank!
Frankly, some of the opinions on this thread just say to me that there are a lot of disgruntled people who spend far to much time on this site (500+ posts), stirring up negative cr*p all of the time - do you have nothing else better to do with your lives??
I for one will be attending the flyer show as someone else quite rightly put "its the ONLY dedicated flight training exhibition in the UK" and I also see it as an opportunity to meet a large number of FTO's without having to trek the length and breadth of the country to see them individually!
Granted, I will take the marketing hype with a pinch of salt but as I say, I can make my own decisions and at 8.50 thats just the price of a couple of pints these days.....hardly going to break the bank!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi
Is this show any good for people that have finished the training accept type ratings. i.e. Are the seminars any good for advise on getting a job or interviews etc?
If its a sales pitch of the training organisations, I would assume not but dont know the balance.
Thanks
Is this show any good for people that have finished the training accept type ratings. i.e. Are the seminars any good for advise on getting a job or interviews etc?
If its a sales pitch of the training organisations, I would assume not but dont know the balance.
Thanks
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: South
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
scallahan,
I think it is a VERY safe bet that no airline will be paying for an exhibition stand to recruit 250hr pilots!
I'm agreement with past posts that what you will find there are FTOs, TRTOs, a few financial stands. And unfortunately good looking blonde girls. So sexist..how about guys for us women!
I think it is a VERY safe bet that no airline will be paying for an exhibition stand to recruit 250hr pilots!
I'm agreement with past posts that what you will find there are FTOs, TRTOs, a few financial stands. And unfortunately good looking blonde girls. So sexist..how about guys for us women!
Full details of the show can be found here:-
FLYER Flight Training Exhibition - 25th April 2009 - Sofitel LHR T5
It might help to answer some of the questions being asked above.
FLYER Flight Training Exhibition - 25th April 2009 - Sofitel LHR T5
It might help to answer some of the questions being asked above.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: dublin
Age: 45
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Upcoming Flyer Professional Flight Training Exhibition
Upcoming Flyer Professional Flight Training Exhibition is on
15th May 2010 - Crowne Plaza, Dublin Santry
Doors open 10.00 - 17.00
The essential exhibition for anyone considering a career as a professional pilot.
Thanks.
________________
Techstore are specialists in a range of Exhibition Stands Services.
15th May 2010 - Crowne Plaza, Dublin Santry
Doors open 10.00 - 17.00
The essential exhibition for anyone considering a career as a professional pilot.
Thanks.
________________
Techstore are specialists in a range of Exhibition Stands Services.
aka Capt PPRuNe
Join Date: May 1995
Location: UK
Posts: 4,541
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'll be giving a talk at the show and I'm not beholden to anyone for any spin or marketing. I'll be telling it like it is and what you need to consider before taking the plunge.
Mind you, you can get all the info you need here on PPRuNe but for those of you planning to make a career as a professional pilot, you will at least have a chance to talk to a lot of training organizations in one place at one time. As to whether it is all hype and empty promises, that's for you to decide but you'd probably get the same information if you went to visit each one individually.
Over the many years that I've been running PPRuNe, I've had countless emails and messages of thanks for the information that has become available to assist those of you starting out on a career as a professional pilot. What we don't do here and I don't do when I give a talk, is hold back from giving you the information on how it really is and what to expect. You'll get it, warts and all.
I guess I'll see some of you there and others... not!
Mind you, you can get all the info you need here on PPRuNe but for those of you planning to make a career as a professional pilot, you will at least have a chance to talk to a lot of training organizations in one place at one time. As to whether it is all hype and empty promises, that's for you to decide but you'd probably get the same information if you went to visit each one individually.
Over the many years that I've been running PPRuNe, I've had countless emails and messages of thanks for the information that has become available to assist those of you starting out on a career as a professional pilot. What we don't do here and I don't do when I give a talk, is hold back from giving you the information on how it really is and what to expect. You'll get it, warts and all.
I guess I'll see some of you there and others... not!
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bulgaria
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Integrated or modular, BA isn' t hiring. For the moment they are firing.
Integrated is better than modular? I thought that the fair was on the 24th of April, not here today.
I' m sure the Pprune founder who posted here will do a great job at warning the people.
Despite that, he can' t go up there and say: please don' t train.
I don' t blame you for that, you just can' t if you want to stand there next year as well.
Naive wannabe' s looking up to the blue blue skies may need to see the skies covered with CB' s and tornadoes before they change their minds.
I think that it would be interesting to go up there with a peaceful group (no hooligans) of jobless pilots, experienced and unexperienced, and give wannabe' s the chance to be told things as they really really are from pilots who fail to secure a job.
Anyone interested to organise?
If you are, PM me. If we get more than 20 people together, I' ll go (even if it were to cost me a little fortune).
Integrated is better than modular? I thought that the fair was on the 24th of April, not here today.
I' m sure the Pprune founder who posted here will do a great job at warning the people.
Despite that, he can' t go up there and say: please don' t train.
I don' t blame you for that, you just can' t if you want to stand there next year as well.
Naive wannabe' s looking up to the blue blue skies may need to see the skies covered with CB' s and tornadoes before they change their minds.
I think that it would be interesting to go up there with a peaceful group (no hooligans) of jobless pilots, experienced and unexperienced, and give wannabe' s the chance to be told things as they really really are from pilots who fail to secure a job.
Anyone interested to organise?
If you are, PM me. If we get more than 20 people together, I' ll go (even if it were to cost me a little fortune).
Last edited by fly_antonov; 20th Feb 2010 at 17:37.