Training for tests!
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fabbe
you are only 16 years of age,,, why are you getting so uptight about these tests. You will pass them when required to, you will be a more mature person in years to come, so just concentrate on the main area of acedemics in school.
this thread is pointless!!!!!
you are only 16 years of age,,, why are you getting so uptight about these tests. You will pass them when required to, you will be a more mature person in years to come, so just concentrate on the main area of acedemics in school.
this thread is pointless!!!!!
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One thing that you guys need to understand (if you do understand this you will stop saying that I am only 16 years old) is this,
Oxford is still 3-4 years away. But this free school I am talking about. The only intake is in the 2nd year of the upper secondary school. Which means that my shot is in august this year (2009). If I decide not to go there, then the only option left are the ab inito programs like OAA (because modular is the last way out for me). So it would be nice to know now if I can enter OAA, CTC etc in 4 years because if I decide not to begin at the free school in agust, that chance is gone. So if I donīt enter OAA, CTC etc then I will probably regret not taking this shot.
So you get it now? I canīt make the choice of how I am going to start my career and life, in 3 years. I have to decide right now.
Oxford is still 3-4 years away. But this free school I am talking about. The only intake is in the 2nd year of the upper secondary school. Which means that my shot is in august this year (2009). If I decide not to go there, then the only option left are the ab inito programs like OAA (because modular is the last way out for me). So it would be nice to know now if I can enter OAA, CTC etc in 4 years because if I decide not to begin at the free school in agust, that chance is gone. So if I donīt enter OAA, CTC etc then I will probably regret not taking this shot.
So you get it now? I canīt make the choice of how I am going to start my career and life, in 3 years. I have to decide right now.
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What fabbe92 is talking about is that in Sweden we have two public schools which have an combined natural science/commercial pilot programme.
The programme is state sponsored an you will get CPL/SE/NQ and 150h (more if you need it.), all for free. The schools accepts applications from the whole country and anyone who has finished the first (aged 16) of three years at the natural science programme or the technical programme (the two most accademic demanding upper secondary programmes in Sweden) can apply.
The first phase of the selection is based on your previous grades, and if you make the first cut you are called to and assessment in Stockholm. This include psychometric tests, interviews and a medical class 1. Things the assessment people look at specialy is maturity, because if you make it throu selection you are expected not only to cope with regular school, flight school, but also to move away from home at the age of 16,17 years to your own appartment with every things that comes with that. The final phase is an ranking and 70-80 highest ranked students are offered to start training.
As you can guess it's highly competitive to get in. I don't have an exact number of how many that apply every year, but I have heard anything from 400 up to 900.
/Ex student
The programme is state sponsored an you will get CPL/SE/NQ and 150h (more if you need it.), all for free. The schools accepts applications from the whole country and anyone who has finished the first (aged 16) of three years at the natural science programme or the technical programme (the two most accademic demanding upper secondary programmes in Sweden) can apply.
The first phase of the selection is based on your previous grades, and if you make the first cut you are called to and assessment in Stockholm. This include psychometric tests, interviews and a medical class 1. Things the assessment people look at specialy is maturity, because if you make it throu selection you are expected not only to cope with regular school, flight school, but also to move away from home at the age of 16,17 years to your own appartment with every things that comes with that. The final phase is an ranking and 70-80 highest ranked students are offered to start training.
As you can guess it's highly competitive to get in. I don't have an exact number of how many that apply every year, but I have heard anything from 400 up to 900.
/Ex student
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Please decide right now and stop spamming up this forum with your constant and tedious drivel. You clearly have no capacity to make any kind of decision yourself, which is a shame, because that is EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE REQUIRED TO DO AS A PILOT.
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So it would be nice to know now if I can enter OAA, CTC etc in 4 years
But this free school I am talking about
If the above is true, why wouldn't you go for it? I mean, I read an earlier post of yours that states you would only plump for the free school if you had no chance of making the grade for e.g. OAA.
I don't understand why you'd pass up the opportunity to get all that training for free in exchange for spending Ģ100k at in integrated FTO.
I'm not sure about this bit (corrections gratefully received) but if you commercially trained for free, then went off and "had a life" for a bit, while paying to keep licenses and ratings current, would it not be quite a few years before you spent the equivalent of what the training might have cost in the first place, especially somewhere like OAA?
Regards
JR
Last edited by JohnRayner; 7th Feb 2009 at 23:48. Reason: Gratefully. I meant gratefully. Long shift and booze no mixee!
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Making a decision!
that is EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE REQUIRED TO DO AS A PILOT.
The alternative theory is that a decision has been made, and our young friend is casting around hoping for someone to tell him he's doing the right thing.
Like, I get the impression he might seriously be considering passing up free training (if such does indeed exist), in exchange for training at the shiny schools, based on his subsequent likelihood of flying for BA et al.
JR
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Fabbe92,
Let me see if I have this right. In August 2009, you can take a Class 1 Medical and a Psychometric test to hopefully get onto a state run school for free. The course will get you a PPL, night rating and 150 hours total time and it won't cost you anything. Is this correct?
Now to help you hear what people have been saying. You will probably grow up enough in four years to pass OAA or CTC's assessment, at least for self-sponsoring students. Quite a few people here think you have little chance of passing them now because of immaturity. By the way, you can't take them until you are 17 or 18.
Have you ever called or written to OAA or CTC? What sort of advice did they give you? How do you plan to pay for either of their courses, since their banks only lend to UK residents? The free option gets you about 1/3 of the way down the modular route. The remaining parts will cost you about 1/3 of what OAA or CTC will want.
To get back to your question on psychometric tests, have you tried Googling the word? How about looking on Amazon.com: Online Shopping for Electronics, Apparel, Computers, Books, DVDs & more for books on psychometric testing for pilots? There are dozens of them.
They should not be called tests though, because there aren't any right and wrong answers. All they are trying to do is get insight into your personality.
Here's an online one you can take, but it is not aviation related. It will give you an idea what they are like. Just taking one should help you unwind a bit, as you will realize they are nothing to worry about.
Personality Test - Keirsey Temperament Website - Look for the free Temperament Sorter.
Let me see if I have this right. In August 2009, you can take a Class 1 Medical and a Psychometric test to hopefully get onto a state run school for free. The course will get you a PPL, night rating and 150 hours total time and it won't cost you anything. Is this correct?
Now to help you hear what people have been saying. You will probably grow up enough in four years to pass OAA or CTC's assessment, at least for self-sponsoring students. Quite a few people here think you have little chance of passing them now because of immaturity. By the way, you can't take them until you are 17 or 18.
Have you ever called or written to OAA or CTC? What sort of advice did they give you? How do you plan to pay for either of their courses, since their banks only lend to UK residents? The free option gets you about 1/3 of the way down the modular route. The remaining parts will cost you about 1/3 of what OAA or CTC will want.
To get back to your question on psychometric tests, have you tried Googling the word? How about looking on Amazon.com: Online Shopping for Electronics, Apparel, Computers, Books, DVDs & more for books on psychometric testing for pilots? There are dozens of them.
They should not be called tests though, because there aren't any right and wrong answers. All they are trying to do is get insight into your personality.
Here's an online one you can take, but it is not aviation related. It will give you an idea what they are like. Just taking one should help you unwind a bit, as you will realize they are nothing to worry about.
Personality Test - Keirsey Temperament Website - Look for the free Temperament Sorter.
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all of the above comments are excellent, so FABBE read them carefully, understand them and make your own decision, no-one has the right to tell you what to do in life so make up you own mind which is best for you.
This whole '''free'' thing im not too sure i believe or there would be hundreds applying. Go to a local flying club where there will be pilots and ask them face-to-face '''what their advice would be??'''
if this is a representation of the way your personanlity is in the group assessments or interviews (which you will find much tougher than these so called tests) then i believe that the FTO will see right through you.
A key comment made above regarding the decision making is VERY important. If you show an FTO any reason that you are unable to make a decision yourself quickly then I dont hold much hope for you at all. Hesitation is the last thing you want to show an FTO in selection, its all about confidence in yourself and your ability.
so hopefully to end this painstaking thread, read all of the above comments by John Rayner, badjaj, and adios, all very well constructed posts for your question.
This whole '''free'' thing im not too sure i believe or there would be hundreds applying. Go to a local flying club where there will be pilots and ask them face-to-face '''what their advice would be??'''
if this is a representation of the way your personanlity is in the group assessments or interviews (which you will find much tougher than these so called tests) then i believe that the FTO will see right through you.
A key comment made above regarding the decision making is VERY important. If you show an FTO any reason that you are unable to make a decision yourself quickly then I dont hold much hope for you at all. Hesitation is the last thing you want to show an FTO in selection, its all about confidence in yourself and your ability.
so hopefully to end this painstaking thread, read all of the above comments by John Rayner, badjaj, and adios, all very well constructed posts for your question.
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I didnīt want to bring this up again. I just said why I want to train now for the tests!
For you guys that donīt know.
It is a school where everything is paid by the swedish government. You go to a normal school and learn normal subjects but 2 days a week (monday, tuesday) tou study aviation. So the normal education is paid by the state. The flight training is payd by the state and the ones ho operate the training are Scandinavian Aviation Academy. www.bfsaa.se . So you get the same teachers and training as the ones att SAA.
What you get at this school is, CPL, 150 hours, NQ and you learn to fly with glass instruments and you learn to fly with gear raiesd up.
So this is what you get if you go to this school.
After the 2 years, 30% of the students will be selected to come and train with SAA and gain ME/IR, ATPL, MCC and everything you need to be a airliner pilot, FOR FREE!!!. So these guys get from 0 hours to type rating for free. (not the tr tough!) For the other 70% there is the same training. But they have to pay 2300 euro for the ME/IR etc.
So its free. This is good. But you have grades in the CPL subjects and since I will have so many subjects to learn, the grades will not be as good as if i do my cpl after upper secondary education.
The fact is that some of these graduates gets a job with Ryanair. But the majority of the graduates are working as flight instructors now (2-3 years after graduation).
I donīt want to work as a flight instructor for 2-3 years I want the best chance to get a job on an airline. And 90% of OAAs graduates, gets a job on an airline. All the people who have gone to this school, lives and works in Sweden or Scandinavia. I donīt want that. I want to live and fly in the UK, Germany, Belgium whatever. And the fact is that many of the graduates from OAA now works for big airlines. They may not work for them at the start but after 10 years or something. I canīt find any graduate from the free school who works for a big airline. Not even SAS.
So I have pretty much decided that I am so passionate about flying that I am willing to pay a large amount and sacrifice in order to get the best of the best. Maybe you guys donīt think like me but I am I and this is how I see it.
Lets stop this thread now
For you guys that donīt know.
It is a school where everything is paid by the swedish government. You go to a normal school and learn normal subjects but 2 days a week (monday, tuesday) tou study aviation. So the normal education is paid by the state. The flight training is payd by the state and the ones ho operate the training are Scandinavian Aviation Academy. www.bfsaa.se . So you get the same teachers and training as the ones att SAA.
What you get at this school is, CPL, 150 hours, NQ and you learn to fly with glass instruments and you learn to fly with gear raiesd up.
So this is what you get if you go to this school.
After the 2 years, 30% of the students will be selected to come and train with SAA and gain ME/IR, ATPL, MCC and everything you need to be a airliner pilot, FOR FREE!!!. So these guys get from 0 hours to type rating for free. (not the tr tough!) For the other 70% there is the same training. But they have to pay 2300 euro for the ME/IR etc.
So its free. This is good. But you have grades in the CPL subjects and since I will have so many subjects to learn, the grades will not be as good as if i do my cpl after upper secondary education.
The fact is that some of these graduates gets a job with Ryanair. But the majority of the graduates are working as flight instructors now (2-3 years after graduation).
I donīt want to work as a flight instructor for 2-3 years I want the best chance to get a job on an airline. And 90% of OAAs graduates, gets a job on an airline. All the people who have gone to this school, lives and works in Sweden or Scandinavia. I donīt want that. I want to live and fly in the UK, Germany, Belgium whatever. And the fact is that many of the graduates from OAA now works for big airlines. They may not work for them at the start but after 10 years or something. I canīt find any graduate from the free school who works for a big airline. Not even SAS.
So I have pretty much decided that I am so passionate about flying that I am willing to pay a large amount and sacrifice in order to get the best of the best. Maybe you guys donīt think like me but I am I and this is how I see it.
Lets stop this thread now
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Fabbe, let's not stop this thread. Please, please listen and HEED what other people are saying. They are more experienced and qualified than you and have been through the system. Instead of getting shirty and irritable with everyone on here, a little humility and gratitude for the advice and pointers you have been given might not go amiss. I'd be very interested to know what your parents advise?
If you have an opportunity to be trained to CPL level for free, then you must be nuts not to take it.
Have you thought where you're going to get the money for OAA? If you have the money anyway, then you can use it for a type rating after SAA which will make you much more employable with an airline.
And where did you get your statistics from about OAA's employment rates? From them?
Cheers
Whirls
If you have an opportunity to be trained to CPL level for free, then you must be nuts not to take it.
Have you thought where you're going to get the money for OAA? If you have the money anyway, then you can use it for a type rating after SAA which will make you much more employable with an airline.
And where did you get your statistics from about OAA's employment rates? From them?
Cheers
Whirls
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I donīt want to work as a flight instructor for 2-3 years I want the best chance to get a job on an airline. And 90% of OAAs graduates, gets a job on an airline.
Beat me to it Whirlygig!
Last edited by akindofmagic; 8th Feb 2009 at 14:22. Reason: Whirlygig beat me to it...
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Yes I got it from them. My parents think I should go to the free school but they allso say that I should do what I think is best for myself.
And I have seen that people who train in Sweden, works in Sweden as 50 year olds. I donīt want that! I want to work for foreign airlines when I am 50. I want to be on the big airlines at the age 0f 50 but shouldnīt I be that, I can work for a smaller airline but just as it is in another european country because I would like to live and work abroad.
I think that if you want to work for BA for example. Then the best way is to train in the UK. If you want to fly for Brussels airlines, then train in Belgium. Isnīt this correct?
And I donīt want to work as a flight instructor for 5 years. People are captains on 747 at the age of 26 I want to be a airliner pilot at that age.
And since airlines choose their low hour pilots from OAA since they make less misstakes, then I take this as a proof that the training si better there.
I do appreciate your ideas tough and since everyone seems to have a different oppinon, I will have to rethink.
I know a SAS captain that is retaired now. He thinks that I should go to Oxford since this free little school is not known among the airlines. And he probably has the greatest experience of us all.
And I have seen that people who train in Sweden, works in Sweden as 50 year olds. I donīt want that! I want to work for foreign airlines when I am 50. I want to be on the big airlines at the age 0f 50 but shouldnīt I be that, I can work for a smaller airline but just as it is in another european country because I would like to live and work abroad.
I think that if you want to work for BA for example. Then the best way is to train in the UK. If you want to fly for Brussels airlines, then train in Belgium. Isnīt this correct?
And I donīt want to work as a flight instructor for 5 years. People are captains on 747 at the age of 26 I want to be a airliner pilot at that age.
And since airlines choose their low hour pilots from OAA since they make less misstakes, then I take this as a proof that the training si better there.
I do appreciate your ideas tough and since everyone seems to have a different oppinon, I will have to rethink.
I know a SAS captain that is retaired now. He thinks that I should go to Oxford since this free little school is not known among the airlines. And he probably has the greatest experience of us all.
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How do you know that all pilots who train with SAA stay in Sweden? How are you in a position to know any Swedish pilots who've left the country and work abroad. There are some believe me 
You're talking about 50 year old pilots who would have qualified nearly 30 years ago. The aviation world was a very different place 30 years ago; no JAA, only national licences which may not have been recognised abroad.
Up until recently, Sweden was not part of the EU and therefore there was no automatic right to work in other countries. Therefore, these older pilots may not have been able to work elsewhere in the world and they didn't have the appropriate visas.
Also bear in mind that many people actually want to stay in their own country, they have family there, maybe married and have children and no wish to uproot to move elsewhere.
You seem to have this idea that the major airlines simply to to OAA at graduation time and just take all the recruits; they don't. Also bear in mind, that OAA has a lot of foreign sponsored students who are pretty much guaranteed jobs in their own country - they use these students in their statistics as well which will skew the percentages.
Cheers
Whirls
You're talking about 50 year old pilots who would have qualified nearly 30 years ago. The aviation world was a very different place 30 years ago; no JAA, only national licences which may not have been recognised abroad.Up until recently, Sweden was not part of the EU and therefore there was no automatic right to work in other countries. Therefore, these older pilots may not have been able to work elsewhere in the world and they didn't have the appropriate visas.
Also bear in mind that many people actually want to stay in their own country, they have family there, maybe married and have children and no wish to uproot to move elsewhere.
You seem to have this idea that the major airlines simply to to OAA at graduation time and just take all the recruits; they don't. Also bear in mind, that OAA has a lot of foreign sponsored students who are pretty much guaranteed jobs in their own country - they use these students in their statistics as well which will skew the percentages.
Cheers
Whirls
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And since airlines choose their low hour pilots from OAA since they make less misstakes, then I take this as a proof that the training si better there.
Ooooooooh wait for it, wait for it...........
Ooooooooh wait for it, wait for it...........
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Firstly if 90% of OAA grads went to the airlines then we'd all be there with them. Remember what Benjamin Disraeli said ("Lies, damned lies, and statistics").
Also why don't you want to be an instructor? You should get into flying for the love of it not for the love of a 747, BA, nice uniform, whatever and instructing is flying and probably more fun than a 747 anyway (as you'll have more time actually flying rather than monitoring an autopilot). Personally I cannot wait to get my instructor rating and I'll be very happy to do that for quite a few years.
Also why don't you want to be an instructor? You should get into flying for the love of it not for the love of a 747, BA, nice uniform, whatever and instructing is flying and probably more fun than a 747 anyway (as you'll have more time actually flying rather than monitoring an autopilot). Personally I cannot wait to get my instructor rating and I'll be very happy to do that for quite a few years.
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Common! Instructing, yes
I will be glad to wake up in the morning and know that my job is to fly and thats what I get to do every day.
But if you can choose between being an instructor in the c172 and flying the 738, Iīd take the 738. Because flying is my dream but airliner is everything I ever wanted. And since I know that it is possible to go from school to f/o in an airliner jet or turboprop, I have that as my goal.
And guys I am not saying that I want BA and LH as my first job. That I wanted a few months ago but since then I have learned that it is not possible so I am not aiming for that. And since BA are retiiring their 737s now I will rather fly for JET2 or Ryanair at the begining then to fly those awfull a320s. No just kidding any plane I get to fly will be good for me.
I will be glad to wake up in the morning and know that my job is to fly and thats what I get to do every day.But if you can choose between being an instructor in the c172 and flying the 738, Iīd take the 738. Because flying is my dream but airliner is everything I ever wanted. And since I know that it is possible to go from school to f/o in an airliner jet or turboprop, I have that as my goal.
And guys I am not saying that I want BA and LH as my first job. That I wanted a few months ago but since then I have learned that it is not possible so I am not aiming for that. And since BA are retiiring their 737s now I will rather fly for JET2 or Ryanair at the begining then to fly those awfull a320s. No just kidding any plane I get to fly will be good for me.
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White Otter,
Instructing could get old very fast if there are very many impetuous, wet behind the ears, youngsters out there who refuse to listen to older, wiser, more experienced pilots (i.e. such as their instructors!).
Instructing could get old very fast if there are very many impetuous, wet behind the ears, youngsters out there who refuse to listen to older, wiser, more experienced pilots (i.e. such as their instructors!).
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My PPL instructor who is a atpl and works for a commercial school says that at the free school you get a lousy education and a lousy flight training so he wouldnīt recomend it.
I mean I seems to close out everything and just see that you get good flight training with OAA. You guys seems to close out everything and just see that its free. I do appreciate your posts and I understand you guys. But how can you say that you think its the best when you donīt even know the school. You have no information about the school whatsoever.
I mean I seems to close out everything and just see that you get good flight training with OAA. You guys seems to close out everything and just see that its free. I do appreciate your posts and I understand you guys. But how can you say that you think its the best when you donīt even know the school. You have no information about the school whatsoever.