Modular Students Employment Success
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Modular Students Employment Success
I'm sorry if this question has been raised before, I've looked at the sticky above and couldnt find it. I went to SFC the other day and they told me airlines dont care if you did intergrated or modular. However, last year I went to OAT and OAT said modular schools say that to sell the modular route, in other words its all marketing BS.
So who's telling the truth, intergrated or modular schools. I know this has been discussed before in great length but all I want to know are some people here on PPRUNE who have gained employment relativly quickley via the modular route.
Whenever I see a pilot and they are discussing how they trained they always seem to say I went through the intergrated route. hmmm...... I want to do the modular route but i'm worried that airlines will slightley prefer intergrated students. Just look at how many connections these big intergrated FTO's have, that must show you something right?
Does anyone know how many airline pilots currently in employment went through the modular route and how many went through the intergrated route. Does the CAA have statistics on this?
According to SFC about 54 students have gained employment, does anyone know how many students they have on average each year. Because if they have lets say a 100 students that only means they have a 54% success rate. Now, that doesnt look impressive!
So who's telling the truth, intergrated or modular schools. I know this has been discussed before in great length but all I want to know are some people here on PPRUNE who have gained employment relativly quickley via the modular route.
Whenever I see a pilot and they are discussing how they trained they always seem to say I went through the intergrated route. hmmm...... I want to do the modular route but i'm worried that airlines will slightley prefer intergrated students. Just look at how many connections these big intergrated FTO's have, that must show you something right?
Does anyone know how many airline pilots currently in employment went through the modular route and how many went through the intergrated route. Does the CAA have statistics on this?
According to SFC about 54 students have gained employment, does anyone know how many students they have on average each year. Because if they have lets say a 100 students that only means they have a 54% success rate. Now, that doesnt look impressive!
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Yes, the question's been asked once or twice! There is also a search function on pprune or you can use google to search pprune. I would also recommend that you just rowse the threads on this forum, just go back a couple of pages and you'll find a wealth of answers.
Oxford say this, Stapleford say that - basic psychology should tell you that there's an element of truth in each and an element of BS!
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Whirls
Oxford say this, Stapleford say that - basic psychology should tell you that there's an element of truth in each and an element of BS!
Cheers
Whirls
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Statistics are meaningless because the polling may have been done in an economic climate that is no longer relevant.
If X flying school says 50 percent of their grads found work, that may be true at one point in time. But it doesn't mean it will be true today or tomorrow.
If X flying school says 50 percent of their grads found work, that may be true at one point in time. But it doesn't mean it will be true today or tomorrow.
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Bottom Line: It's not so much about where you train as "who you are".
There are some students who are just so competent and dedicated that they will find employment regardless of how they trained, there are some who will get through but don't really have 'it' and they will struggle.
This is independant of style of training.
FWIW, In my opinion possibly the difference is that integrated normally requires aptitude testing, which whilst definitely not a definitive statement of your ability to work hard and get a job is at least A filter to ensure there's some talent there.
There are some students who are just so competent and dedicated that they will find employment regardless of how they trained, there are some who will get through but don't really have 'it' and they will struggle.
This is independant of style of training.
FWIW, In my opinion possibly the difference is that integrated normally requires aptitude testing, which whilst definitely not a definitive statement of your ability to work hard and get a job is at least A filter to ensure there's some talent there.
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You get the same licence from both routes, so go figure, I went modular all the way with a small school with 5 aeroplanes and it never hindered me.
I got on to an Airbus at a major airline with 250 hrs and I didn't even have to pay for a type rating.
Cabair/OAA's line of 'you can only get a job from integrated' is running so tired, so don't listen to it. Fact is, no-one is recruiting at the moment. Low hour people won't be looked at for a good while yet regardless of the old mod v int argument. The market is flooded with experienced guys, and will be as more and more airlines go bust. I'd say at least 4 years.
Good luck
I got on to an Airbus at a major airline with 250 hrs and I didn't even have to pay for a type rating.
Cabair/OAA's line of 'you can only get a job from integrated' is running so tired, so don't listen to it. Fact is, no-one is recruiting at the moment. Low hour people won't be looked at for a good while yet regardless of the old mod v int argument. The market is flooded with experienced guys, and will be as more and more airlines go bust. I'd say at least 4 years.
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I know lots of people who got employment relatively quickly via the modular route. I've seen people from integrated courses be passed over again and again and vice versa. Do not believe the marketing hype.
It is true that some airlines prefer integrated pilots, indeed integrated pilots from certain schools. But as it happens they cherry pick the best out of each class. But even then they still take modular pilots.
Really at the end of day it doesn't matter. There are few jobs at the moment. But when there are, it still won't matter. As clanger says it not about where you train but who you are.
I know one guy, modular trained in the USA. Applied on Monday, was called on Tuesday for an interview and assessment the following week. Passed and told on the day, he was in. Similarly, I know another from an integrated course, sent in the application and heard no more.
It really doesn't matter, get the best training you can for the finance you have. You'll need the spare cash anyway for the long wait for the job.
It is true that some airlines prefer integrated pilots, indeed integrated pilots from certain schools. But as it happens they cherry pick the best out of each class. But even then they still take modular pilots.
Really at the end of day it doesn't matter. There are few jobs at the moment. But when there are, it still won't matter. As clanger says it not about where you train but who you are.
I know one guy, modular trained in the USA. Applied on Monday, was called on Tuesday for an interview and assessment the following week. Passed and told on the day, he was in. Similarly, I know another from an integrated course, sent in the application and heard no more.
It really doesn't matter, get the best training you can for the finance you have. You'll need the spare cash anyway for the long wait for the job.
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Bottom Line: It's not so much about where you train as "who you are".
You can be the world greatest 200 pilot, but if no vacancies are available no vacancies are available.
PosClimb - I don't think that was clanger32's point - I think he was going for the other side of the spectrum i.e "one could go to OAT and get 100% in all exams but one is a right d*ck head so one wont get a job"
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To be fair its more about the person than the school, unless the old boy network has been used. Of course the interview is looking for a good pilot but there is limited difference between intergrated and mod, 200hrs is 200hrs! When it gets to intervew stage its all about if could they sit next to you on a night TFS or across the pond, not what school you went to. I can see now that people thinking that its the intergrated route that opens doors and yes it does but persistence can do the same. There are stories of a guy who sent to the FCA, or A2000 as they were know then, every week with a CV attached to a bunch of flowers for the chief pilots secretary, after a LONG time it paid off. Equally the guy who hired a bill board van and painted 'I want to fly for Easyjet' and sat in their carpark in an orange jump suit.
As I am sure most guys do, driving around the airports in the country dropping CV's off on top of writing regular letters, prefferably since hour 1 of flying, to every airline updating them on a regular basis will open doors!!
I was a MOD guy from a good UK school and my first job was on the 320 for a uk charter airline all due to regular letters. I also have friends that went to Oxford and are now flying for RYR. So there is not really much difference at the moment at all. However, modular often means that you dont have to ponce around in eppalettes before ever flying an a/c, this may be controversial I know but I am sure with hindsight everone agrees a trip around a certain school is nothing less than comedy value!
As I am sure most guys do, driving around the airports in the country dropping CV's off on top of writing regular letters, prefferably since hour 1 of flying, to every airline updating them on a regular basis will open doors!!
I was a MOD guy from a good UK school and my first job was on the 320 for a uk charter airline all due to regular letters. I also have friends that went to Oxford and are now flying for RYR. So there is not really much difference at the moment at all. However, modular often means that you dont have to ponce around in eppalettes before ever flying an a/c, this may be controversial I know but I am sure with hindsight everone agrees a trip around a certain school is nothing less than comedy value!
If you wanted an answer, Afraz, you've got some good ones in this thread. The truth behind the marketing BS is that the integrated route suits certain people and the modular route appeals to others. If you have the aptitude to become an Airline pilot and enough dedication, energy and financial backing, you will get a job regardless of which route you take.
Remember training schools are in business to make money - so anything to get someone to part with their hard earned or borrowed cash will help their bottom line.
To be absolutely frank most operators don't care where you did your training. When I worked in the fixed wing world, regional jet operator, the majority of pilots employed gained their licences through the 'modular' route, despite the rubbish being spouted from a certain training school.
The biggest problem for those with freshly printed licences, is keeping it current. A fair number of people have failed to make it pass the interview stage, because of this - even graduates from integrated schools.
To be absolutely frank most operators don't care where you did your training. When I worked in the fixed wing world, regional jet operator, the majority of pilots employed gained their licences through the 'modular' route, despite the rubbish being spouted from a certain training school.
The biggest problem for those with freshly printed licences, is keeping it current. A fair number of people have failed to make it pass the interview stage, because of this - even graduates from integrated schools.
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Afraz, pull up a comfy chair and read this:
http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...d-nauseam.html
Again, you have had some good advice on this thread. Does it really surprise you that a modular school recommends the modular route, while integrated schools recommend the integrated route? They are all after your money.
For what it's worth, I went modular and had an airline job within three months of finishing the IR. Combination of right place at the right time (my school had a relationship with the airline, who started recruiting FOs a few days after I passed the IR) and a modicum of aptitude. Five of us were interviewed, four got jobs. When we started the type rating course, it was pretty much a 50/50 split between integrated and modular graduates. Make a note of that - the airline had no preference one way or the other.
All of which is good stuff, but pretty academic. We're not recruiting at the moment, so it doesn't matter where you trained - there aren't any jobs. I say again - TIMING IS MUCH MORE IMPORTANT THAN CHOICE OF SCHOOL.
http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...d-nauseam.html
Again, you have had some good advice on this thread. Does it really surprise you that a modular school recommends the modular route, while integrated schools recommend the integrated route? They are all after your money.
For what it's worth, I went modular and had an airline job within three months of finishing the IR. Combination of right place at the right time (my school had a relationship with the airline, who started recruiting FOs a few days after I passed the IR) and a modicum of aptitude. Five of us were interviewed, four got jobs. When we started the type rating course, it was pretty much a 50/50 split between integrated and modular graduates. Make a note of that - the airline had no preference one way or the other.
All of which is good stuff, but pretty academic. We're not recruiting at the moment, so it doesn't matter where you trained - there aren't any jobs. I say again - TIMING IS MUCH MORE IMPORTANT THAN CHOICE OF SCHOOL.
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Afraz, I went modular and was working as cabin crew from start to end ,3 and a bit years.(I was cabin crew before I decided I wanted to be a pilot)
It allowed me to keep earning I started pre sept 11th, so there were'nt a great deal of jobs and by the time i finished the market had picked up and everybody expanding. I got a job with an airline with 250 hours.
Before I made my decision I asked a lot of flight deck how they trained and a fair few of them were modular , However the market at the time helped make my mind up. Mass shortage of jobs.
Looks like the job market and economy is in a pretty poor position and probably will be for some time?
Good advice from the other guys is that it really does depend on your individual circumstance and long term ,I dont think it matters intergrated or modular its the person that counts.
I met a number of people during my IR that had done the intergrated route and had to wait quite a while before getting a job.
My advice to you is with,the present lack of movement in the airline industry against you and your age (18 ?) for you. Time appears to be on you side and that may help you make your mind up?
You could go modular and end up in employment at the same time as the guy who goes intergrated course and ends up waiting for the market to pick up. Thats what happened to me.
Good luck
It allowed me to keep earning I started pre sept 11th, so there were'nt a great deal of jobs and by the time i finished the market had picked up and everybody expanding. I got a job with an airline with 250 hours.
Before I made my decision I asked a lot of flight deck how they trained and a fair few of them were modular , However the market at the time helped make my mind up. Mass shortage of jobs.
Looks like the job market and economy is in a pretty poor position and probably will be for some time?
Good advice from the other guys is that it really does depend on your individual circumstance and long term ,I dont think it matters intergrated or modular its the person that counts.
I met a number of people during my IR that had done the intergrated route and had to wait quite a while before getting a job.
My advice to you is with,the present lack of movement in the airline industry against you and your age (18 ?) for you. Time appears to be on you side and that may help you make your mind up?
You could go modular and end up in employment at the same time as the guy who goes intergrated course and ends up waiting for the market to pick up. Thats what happened to me.
Good luck
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Afraz,
According to the Guild of Air Pilots and Air Navigators (GAPAN), around 80% of civil trainee pilots go down the modular route, and not surprisingly, modular pilots make up the majority of those gaining employment post-training.
I would recommend you download a good publication produced by GAPAN called 'So You Want to be Pilot' [pdf here - warning: 26 MB so right click and Save As]
It's got a good run down of options, integrated routes vs modular and useful information too.
According to the Guild of Air Pilots and Air Navigators (GAPAN), around 80% of civil trainee pilots go down the modular route, and not surprisingly, modular pilots make up the majority of those gaining employment post-training.
I would recommend you download a good publication produced by GAPAN called 'So You Want to be Pilot' [pdf here - warning: 26 MB so right click and Save As]
It's got a good run down of options, integrated routes vs modular and useful information too.
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I've been trying to find that statistic Aero, I cant find it anywhere. And 'So you want to become a pilot' states something along the lines of 'integrated students have a better chance of employment'. Go figure!
Let me try to ask my original question another way. How much do you agree with the statement:
INTEGRATED STUDENTS HAVE A SLIGHTLEY BETTER CHANCE OF EMPLOYMENT WITH THE AIRLINES
1 = Agree completly
2 = Agree somewhat
3 = Dont agree, dont disagree
4 = Disagree somewhat
5 = Disagree completly
Thanks for your help guys!!!!
Let me try to ask my original question another way. How much do you agree with the statement:
INTEGRATED STUDENTS HAVE A SLIGHTLEY BETTER CHANCE OF EMPLOYMENT WITH THE AIRLINES
1 = Agree completly
2 = Agree somewhat
3 = Dont agree, dont disagree
4 = Disagree somewhat
5 = Disagree completly
Thanks for your help guys!!!!
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I'll bite. I'll take option (1) but with two caveats
a) only when the airlines are hiring in volume
b) but for that slightly better chance of a job or faster time to market you pay, maybe, £25K to £30K more.
a) only when the airlines are hiring in volume
b) but for that slightly better chance of a job or faster time to market you pay, maybe, £25K to £30K more.
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Thanks AW!
How longer does it take the average modular student to gain employment with an airline. Can anyone quantify this?
Thanks for all your help!
How longer does it take the average modular student to gain employment with an airline. Can anyone quantify this?
Thanks for all your help!
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No, no-one has those statistics.
You're going to have to shoot from the hip here, Afraz. Integrated is quicker, more expensive and, in boom times, gets you a job a bit quicker. Modular is cheaper and you can stay in employment while you train.
Two years ago you should have gone integrated, a year ago you should either have gone modular or delayed starting, today, take your pick.....
You're going to have to shoot from the hip here, Afraz. Integrated is quicker, more expensive and, in boom times, gets you a job a bit quicker. Modular is cheaper and you can stay in employment while you train.
Two years ago you should have gone integrated, a year ago you should either have gone modular or delayed starting, today, take your pick.....