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How do ab-initio graduates afford SSTR programmes e.g. with Ryanair?

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How do ab-initio graduates afford SSTR programmes e.g. with Ryanair?

Old 30th Jul 2008, 18:30
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: London
Posts: 163
TWW, That's the truth and most of us agree with it, but some wannabe's are just pi$$in people off because they want to fly just for an airline. But what's the point going straight to airlines? For some it works out. I was on holidays in Poland not that long ago. I went to visit a flying school near my old house, every week there's a group meeting of the pilot student club, I decided to go to one of the meetings and to be honest I was shocked after what I heard there. I am a wannabe as lot of us and the whole group. The meeting went quite well, at the end of it I got to talk to few Polish wannabe's and a hell lot of British wannabe's. Most of them came over to Poland for the air races and joined the club for a while as it's in the building next to airport at which the race was taking place. I spoke to them about training the modular and integrated way, nearly all of them didn't even enjoy their PPL from what they've said and they want to fly Boeings/Airbuses! Most of them thinks that they will get a job with 250 hours in their logbook, when I said that I was going to instruct for a while they said that I wont be a pilot but an instructor and that PPL still doesn't make me a pilot. I was shocked! Private Pilot License, it says Pilot License and even though they said it still doesn't make me a pilot if I don't fly for big airlines. That's mad! You're a pilot from the moment you have your PPL don't you think? They said I'm totally stupid going the modular way because for them it's pointless because if I went integrated I would have got a job straight away, and we have to agree, that's still not the truth.. . I just don't get how irrotating and stupid are some wannabe's. They don't know a damn thing about the industry but they still go for it and I bet that some of them won't like their jobs after a year or so, they didn't even have the flying bug, the motivation.. don't get them
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Old 30th Jul 2008, 19:30
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 433
daria,

There are a lot of misinformed people out there, unfortunately they are usually the ones who have it all on a plate. If they had to make an effort they wouldn't bother. They may well be bored of the job within a few years (if they get a job!), but I suspect that doesn't matter to them much aslong as they can pull birds with their uniform. Don't let it get to you, just get on with what you're doing and be happy. I'd still say the majority of people are motivated by a love of flying and aviation and that's what gets them by. Most people are happy to fly whatever, some only want to fly jets but you have to appreciate that this isn't always due to an 'I only want to fly for airlines' attitude, but often because they would be unable to service their loan on any pay other than airline pay.
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Old 30th Jul 2008, 19:45
  #23 (permalink)  
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Training

but some wannabe's are just pi$$in people off because they want to fly just for an airline
Your a pilot the minute you earn a pilots licence irregardless of the privileges. That's like saying your not qualified/licenced driver because you don't drive an articulated lorry and get paid for it!

There is nothing wrong with going down the modular route. It's been the established route for donkeys of years and it certainly works! 80% of low hour pilots that join the airlines are newbies that have gone down the modular route. The Guild of Air Pilots and Navigators (GAPAN) will happily back this up for you.

It'll be hard for you to get an objective view if you specifically ask 'wannabes' that have already started training. Most trainee pilots are quite defensive of their decisions and the routes they have followed. Training & education are areas that sit quite deeply with people alongside such things as religion and money!
 
Old 30th Jul 2008, 19:59
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: London
Posts: 163
I always thought and been told that everyone is meant to do what they love, appreciate and something they won't get bored of in a few years time. I don't understand how some wannabe's are just so foolish. I wonder what they would do if they had to go the modular way..
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Old 30th Jul 2008, 20:19
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
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I started when I was 18, used my full time job to fund my PPL and hour building, stock piled some cash then done my ATPL's CPL and IR. It took me 4 years to get my IR with only a career developement loan (8k). The banks then financed my RYR TR. Not everyone takes out massive loans and completes the training in 16 months. Get a job and take your time. 4 years is the same time period as a respected university course.
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Old 30th Jul 2008, 20:33
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
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Wbryce - I totally agree.
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Old 30th Jul 2008, 20:37
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Daria,

I don't believe you have the experience or knowledge to slag those pilots who decide to do it the integrated route or those that wish to jump straight into the airlines.

I understand you have an interest in local flying but at the same time you need to understand that different people want different things. I would much rather fly an Airbus or a Boeing than Twin Otter, not because I don't appreciate the skill and knowledge required to fly a twin, but my ultimate goal in life is to fly these aircraft and so it would be common sense for me to try and get onboard of these aircraft as quickly as possible using the quickest route.

I'm not trying to suggest integrated flying is the best route, but many people get stuck in the integrated routes because of the shiney new aircraft, the fancy name and fantastic marketing. It doesn't make them fools.

I personally am doing the Modular training route, with the ambition to fly large aircraft as quickly as possible with a large airline. Not that I would turn down a job with the likes of Loganair though
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Old 30th Jul 2008, 20:43
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
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Posts: 163
Im not slagging pilots off, I'm mainly talking about daft wannabe's.. I know that some people would want to get to airlines as quick as they can. but what about those who doesn't have a damn idea about aviation and go for integrated school because it seems 'cool'?
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Old 30th Jul 2008, 20:59
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Angel

Big planes - Little planes
Props - Jets
Modular - Integrated
Lifestyle - Money (or both )

Different strokes for different folks, there is far too much jealousy in this game and it's mostly from those who have little knowledge, ability or aptitude.

It's a long road to the top, best not to cultivate that chip early.

Regards

MP
Mercenary Pilot is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2008, 21:18
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Just a bit lower than the point where the falling angel meets the rising ape
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Awwwww yeah....

Different strokes for different folks, there is far too much jealousy in this game and it's mostly from those who have little knowledge, ability or aptitude.

It's a long road to the top, best not to cultivate that chip early.
Life is indeed too short to get annoyed with other people. Do what you're going to do. Do it the way you want to do it. Accept that opinions are like ars£hol£s (i.e. everyone's got one and no-one really wants anyone else's), and that there are often many solutions to a given problem.

Saves on stomach linings and tooth enamel IMHO

JohnRayner is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2008, 21:31
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Merc,

Couldn't have put it better myself, far too much moaning on here. Keep your eyes on were your heading and let the others take their own path.
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Old 30th Jul 2008, 21:57
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Daria,

Sorry. I haven't met anyone in my life who wants to do an integrated course because it's "cool" maybe its perhaps because your talking to daft wee 15 year olds that don't understand the meaning of money.

Stop worrying about what others are doing and aim for what you want in life.
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Old 30th Jul 2008, 22:52
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
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I met an 18 year old who said 'it's cool'. I'm not worrying about others, just lately I've been thinking how stupid some wannabe's are, they don't have a clue what they do but they do it.
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Old 30th Jul 2008, 23:30
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: BHX-MAN-EMA
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daria-ox

Is it sour grapes I detect, might you have failed the selection to get onto an integrated course ?

If you have not tried then maybe you should as you will learn a lot about yourself, and if you really have what it takes to get to the top in this career.

The selection procedure to get into the likes of OAA is not rocket science, but one thing it does is separate the men from the boys, and the find those that are motivated to succeed whatever their age.

Stop talking (typing) and listen, for when you know that life is 2/3rds listening and 1/3rd talking you will achieve your goals.

While this downturn is here SSTR's and probably the integrated route will be the quickest and best path to an airline job over the next 18 to 24 months.
If you cant afford this route yet, wait and save that cash until you can.
Day_Dreamer is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2008, 23:42
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK.
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Day_Dreamer,

How long do you think it would take most people to save over 80k?? A number of years, by which time you could easily get a job by doing the modular course AND do it for half the price.

If you have 80k sitting about, go for the integrated course you will most likely get a job as soon as you leave. If not, then the modular course will suit you, having an 80K loan isn't a good start in life especially when your in your early twenties.

Daria,

You get many immature 18 year olds still sadly, when you hear a mature wannabe say they are joining it because the course is "cool" I give you permission to hit them with the nearest object (joking of course)
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Old 30th Jul 2008, 23:52
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 433
Is it sour grapes I detect, might you have failed the selection to get onto an integrated course ?
Are you serious in thinking that people only ever don't go to integrated schools because they fail the selection?

What's wrong with the GAPAN aptitude testing?

And another thing I'd consider with aptitude testing and modular students is that they all havea PPL before progressing onwards and so have already demonstrated they have the foundations. Integrated students on the other hand have to be tested due to the fact that most of them do not have any flying experience.
BerksFlyer is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2008, 09:38
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Auckland
Posts: 61
There are advantages to Integrated courses but can't think of many - PIC time 50hrs less than Modular route for CPL.

From experience and mine is from the Modular side, Integrated would I'm guessing suit someone with the money and who knows themselves well enough to know they couldn't motivate to study at home (but not everyone). Anyone working can pass the ATPL's with hard work put in during the evening - dedication & commitment!

By and large some good points raised by all previous and I tend to agree from what I hear on the inside regarding recruitment (not everyone), which is that airlines are tending to find Modular students have more drive and passion as they have proved they can motivate and are passionate, not just loaded (again, not everyone though).

One thing I would say to anyone about to splash out on training the Integrated route coming from an economist point of view, is research, research, research. We are going into a very difficult period and there are lots of Pilots both past and present with no jobs due to over borrowing and salaries not matching repayments.

The so called 'Doom & Gloom Merchant' phrase is misused and quoted often by the confused. Being a realist is the approach of the better prepared person. Have a dream like I have and work to it with a schedule but ultimately stay in touch with training organisations (plural) and get a general picture of what is happening around you. Speak to as many Pilots as you can who ARE employed and find as much information out as you can.

DO NOT read too much from PPRuNe as you will find most Pilots (working) avoid it like the plague.

Good Luck

Spit-Fire is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2008, 10:41
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: London
Posts: 163
I didn't want to go through the integrated way. I could have my parents mortgaging our house for 80K, but seriously, I rather do it myself and show that I can do it. I rather work for it than take this amount of money from my parents or work for it for the next 5 years, it's a fact that they do help me financially but I rather pay as I go. I have a job which gets me enough money to get through the modular way, and another thing, I don't want to go straight to airlines as you have probably read before, so going integrated for me isn't the way. I rather work a little bit harder knowing that in the future I worked hard for it instead getting everything on plate.

Sometimes really I hate my days, I work and study, work and study, at weekends I go out but most of time I have to work, but at the end of the day I know I do it because I want my dreams to come true and to be honest, that motivates me a lot. I had a choice of going the integrated and modular, I choosed modular because I had my reasons. The main one was the money, my parents could have taken a loan but I rather prove to them and make them proud that I've done it all by myself and that I worked for it.

It's a fact that it will take longer than integrated, but so what? I'm young and I have lot of time. I want to get some different expierences on flying before going to airlines too so I'll do few conversions after I gain my PPL, I'll definately go to fly few hours in Poland and Spain, then come back, do the CPL, and few different courses including FI and work as a instructor for a while maybe then with time, I will be ready to go to airlines, because for me if I had 250 hours flown I wouldn't want to go to airlines I rather get some real flying done before I do.

And as BerksFlyer said, what's wrong with GAPAN aptitude testing?
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Old 31st Jul 2008, 12:44
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
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Mercenary Pilot - i couldnt have put it better myself

What ever route people choose to take is their business only and is not for you all to slag off. You make assumptions based on little known facts. I chose the route based on years and years of thought, work, research and i chose what is best for me. I was 19 when i started and i went Integrated not because i thought it was "cool" but for many reasons which are my own. I have many many friends in the industry both from integrated, military and modular routes - at the end of the day we all end up at the same place at first, the right hand seat and therefore it doesnt actually matter how you get there.

In answer to the topic, i funded my TR from a mixture of an unsecured loan and money from a previous job. And all this about 30k for a RYR type rating....well its the rumour brigade again i can assure you its alot less.
Ollie268 is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2008, 13:58
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 58
And as BerksFlyer said, what's wrong with GAPAN aptitude testing?
Its more expensive than the FTO tests.
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