View Poll Results: Type rating?
Bought Type rating - got the job
4
66.67%
Bought Type rating - told "need time on type"
1
16.67%
You were told buy the type and get the job - but did not get a job offer anyway
1
16.67%
Voters: 6. This poll is closed
Type Rating - which type, where, why pay etc?
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Type Rating Advice
Be aware that some type rating courses being sold on the market at present time do not include in the contract the actual take offs and landings on the real aircraft, these courses do not grant that you will actually do those required circuits and the seller always says that it will be very easy to find an operator who will give you an aircraft for that 1 hour of real flying in the circuit. Believe me : no operator will do this, unless you are already hired.
AFTER 6 MONTHES YOUR SIMULATOR TRAINING WILL EXPIRE AND YOU WILL NOT HAVE THE TYPE RATING.
WHEN YOU BUY A TYPE RATING COURSE YOU WANT TO HAVE IN WRITTEN IN THE CONTRACT THAT YOU WILL DO THAT REAL FLIGHT, YOU WANT TO KNOW WHICH OPERATOR WILL BE AND WHEN.
Some friends of mine bought type rating courses which did not have in the contract the real flight and now they are desperate trying to find where to do the real flight, few months from now they will have wasted big monies if they do not succed in buying and performing this real flight.
I have been looking around to shop TR and in many contracts there is no mention about the real flight, in very few there is, but not all of them say WHO and WHEN.
AFTER 6 MONTHES YOUR SIMULATOR TRAINING WILL EXPIRE AND YOU WILL NOT HAVE THE TYPE RATING.
WHEN YOU BUY A TYPE RATING COURSE YOU WANT TO HAVE IN WRITTEN IN THE CONTRACT THAT YOU WILL DO THAT REAL FLIGHT, YOU WANT TO KNOW WHICH OPERATOR WILL BE AND WHEN.
Some friends of mine bought type rating courses which did not have in the contract the real flight and now they are desperate trying to find where to do the real flight, few months from now they will have wasted big monies if they do not succed in buying and performing this real flight.
I have been looking around to shop TR and in many contracts there is no mention about the real flight, in very few there is, but not all of them say WHO and WHEN.
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A320 or B737
one of my friend is asking me what is the best for someone who want pay his own type rating?.
the B737 or the A320. He is European.
In Asia, more and more companies are buying the A320, but it seems to me that the immigration is asking for 500h on type to give the authorisation to fly for a foreign pilot.
The B737 is used worldwide, but how many 737 pilots are waiting for a job?
China, will not have enough pilots in the futur. but when?
I have heared there is a waiting list of 6 months for students waiting to make their line training, I am simply scandalized.
then in 6 months, there will be a waiting list of 3 years for pilots waiting to work for 10 euro per hour.
there is already a waiting list of pilots paying to work!!!(eaglejet???)
Back to my question: A320 or B737???
I really need a job
the B737 or the A320. He is European.
In Asia, more and more companies are buying the A320, but it seems to me that the immigration is asking for 500h on type to give the authorisation to fly for a foreign pilot.
The B737 is used worldwide, but how many 737 pilots are waiting for a job?
China, will not have enough pilots in the futur. but when?
I have heared there is a waiting list of 6 months for students waiting to make their line training, I am simply scandalized.
then in 6 months, there will be a waiting list of 3 years for pilots waiting to work for 10 euro per hour.
there is already a waiting list of pilots paying to work!!!(eaglejet???)
Back to my question: A320 or B737???
I really need a job
Last edited by needajob01; 14th Sep 2005 at 21:54.
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Type Rating Advice
Be aware that some type rating courses being sold on the market at present time do not include in the contract the actual take offs and landings on the real aircraft, these courses do not grant that you will actually do those required circuits and the seller always says that it will be very easy to find an operator who will give you an aircraft for that 1 hour of real flying in the circuit. Believe me : no operator will do this, unless you are already hired.
AFTER 6 MONTHES YOUR SIMULATOR TRAINING WILL EXPIRE AND YOU WILL NOT HAVE THE TYPE RATING.
WHEN YOU BUY A TYPE RATING COURSE YOU WANT TO HAVE IN WRITTEN IN THE CONTRACT THAT YOU WILL DO THAT REAL FLIGHT, YOU WANT TO KNOW WHICH OPERATOR WILL BE AND WHEN.
Some friends of mine bought type rating courses which did not have in the contract the real flight and now they are desperate trying to find where to do the real flight, few months from now they will have wasted big monies if they do not succed in buying and performing this real flight.
I have been looking around to shop TR and in many contracts there is no mention about the real flight, in very few there is, but not all of them say WHO and WHEN.
AFTER 6 MONTHES YOUR SIMULATOR TRAINING WILL EXPIRE AND YOU WILL NOT HAVE THE TYPE RATING.
WHEN YOU BUY A TYPE RATING COURSE YOU WANT TO HAVE IN WRITTEN IN THE CONTRACT THAT YOU WILL DO THAT REAL FLIGHT, YOU WANT TO KNOW WHICH OPERATOR WILL BE AND WHEN.
Some friends of mine bought type rating courses which did not have in the contract the real flight and now they are desperate trying to find where to do the real flight, few months from now they will have wasted big monies if they do not succed in buying and performing this real flight.
I have been looking around to shop TR and in many contracts there is no mention about the real flight, in very few there is, but not all of them say WHO and WHEN.
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B737NG A320 Type Ratings
Any one looking to do FAA Type Ratings or recurrent in the B737NG or A320 check out www.bondaviationservices.com prices are competitive
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The best, yes
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Buying type ratings - A necessary evil?
Firstly, I can hear the hornets next this thread will stir up buzzing away already, I don't apologise for it and I also would appreciate it if all the axe grinders out there refrain from posting derogatory comments unless they add to the discussion.
I am Scottish, therefore to fulfill national stereotypes in the UK I am consequently tight. That's why the concept of paying £20k ish to make me more employable kinda stinks, however I think we can all agree that after a bunch of 'flip-flops' decide to fly into perfectly working skyscrapers then the aviation world has changed for ever, a definite negative for us newbies.
Yes, in an ideal world, we'd get sponsorship from the airlines, join them as cadets, work our way up through them gaining experience and mastering our piloting skill, God forbid even get paid for flying (I know it seems a bit 'out there' but apparently it used to happen), a regular Xanadu. However like the fabled city it can only be considered fiction in the current climate.
I have weighed up the situation and if required I could potentially pay out the wonga to get my own type rating based on the following:
I'm not bonded to any airline for a set amount of years
I can get to exactly where I want to be quicker rather than building up over time on smaller aircraft i.e. King Air -> BAe 146, etc. (Before I get abuse - I'm not denigrating this method, its just I want to get onto the big boys as soon as possible)
I could put myself above a lot of my contemporaries for the same experience and hours.
I am that little more attractive to an employer as I already have a type rating.
QUESTION IS:
If I am to go for a TR based on me having 300 hours, a FAA and JAA CPL/ME/IR and ATPL(f) which manufacturer should I go for and which model? I've had an extensive look through PPJN.COM to see whats on order, who's hiring, etc. I just want to hear it from the horses mouth so to speak if my ambitions are feasible. I would look to finish the TR by around May next year.
So options are as I see them Boeing 737(a 767-200 opens up Air Scotland based in Glasgow) or Airbus A319/320 because of Easyjet's mass order plus Airbus ratings cover almost the whole 320 family, I must admit I'm leaning towards this.
I mean if I was to go out and get an A330/340 rating would this be folly as generally this is what most pilots work up to? As a result I have a potentially useless TR in my pocket because nobody will hire me with my total hours to fly an A340 despite having the TR?
Stephen
I am Scottish, therefore to fulfill national stereotypes in the UK I am consequently tight. That's why the concept of paying £20k ish to make me more employable kinda stinks, however I think we can all agree that after a bunch of 'flip-flops' decide to fly into perfectly working skyscrapers then the aviation world has changed for ever, a definite negative for us newbies.
Yes, in an ideal world, we'd get sponsorship from the airlines, join them as cadets, work our way up through them gaining experience and mastering our piloting skill, God forbid even get paid for flying (I know it seems a bit 'out there' but apparently it used to happen), a regular Xanadu. However like the fabled city it can only be considered fiction in the current climate.
I have weighed up the situation and if required I could potentially pay out the wonga to get my own type rating based on the following:
I'm not bonded to any airline for a set amount of years
I can get to exactly where I want to be quicker rather than building up over time on smaller aircraft i.e. King Air -> BAe 146, etc. (Before I get abuse - I'm not denigrating this method, its just I want to get onto the big boys as soon as possible)
I could put myself above a lot of my contemporaries for the same experience and hours.
I am that little more attractive to an employer as I already have a type rating.
QUESTION IS:
If I am to go for a TR based on me having 300 hours, a FAA and JAA CPL/ME/IR and ATPL(f) which manufacturer should I go for and which model? I've had an extensive look through PPJN.COM to see whats on order, who's hiring, etc. I just want to hear it from the horses mouth so to speak if my ambitions are feasible. I would look to finish the TR by around May next year.
So options are as I see them Boeing 737(a 767-200 opens up Air Scotland based in Glasgow) or Airbus A319/320 because of Easyjet's mass order plus Airbus ratings cover almost the whole 320 family, I must admit I'm leaning towards this.
I mean if I was to go out and get an A330/340 rating would this be folly as generally this is what most pilots work up to? As a result I have a potentially useless TR in my pocket because nobody will hire me with my total hours to fly an A340 despite having the TR?
Stephen
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No, resist at all costs. If nobody pays, nobody will pay! Airlines need pilots, they should pay! OK, so they bond you for that, but there is no such thing as free lunch. Yes, I know I have a job but I don't want munchkins throwing rocks in my pond. The thin end of the wedge is paying for your rating. The thick end is when you are the customer, paying to sit in the front bit with the windows and knobs and buttons etc.
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If you are fortunate enough to be able to afford to pay for your own type rating, it put's you at a huge advantage when applying for jobs.
The company doesn't have to worry about losing money if they put you through the rating and you don't make it, either initially or at a later date.
You don't have to worry about being bonded for years, and/or having to wait for promotion when rated pilots join as direct entry employees ahead of you.
In any sector of this industry, it puts you streets ahead if you demonstrate that you have put in the effort and taken the risk.
It's a big outlay, a big risk and a huge personal effort, but a far quicker way to greater riches than Mr Piltdown and his clan will ever experience.
The company doesn't have to worry about losing money if they put you through the rating and you don't make it, either initially or at a later date.
You don't have to worry about being bonded for years, and/or having to wait for promotion when rated pilots join as direct entry employees ahead of you.
In any sector of this industry, it puts you streets ahead if you demonstrate that you have put in the effort and taken the risk.
It's a big outlay, a big risk and a huge personal effort, but a far quicker way to greater riches than Mr Piltdown and his clan will ever experience.
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The only other option I see open to me at this stage in my career is to pay for turbine time with a company such as Ameriflight or Eagle Jet or one of their contemporaries.
I have looked into a scheme where I pay $44,000 to get FAA Part 135 training then a type rating on either a Lear or a Citation and then fly until I get a job elsewhere. Multi Engine, Jet time = Good on CV, $44k for the priviledge, both citation and lear less than what majors consider 'relevant hours' = Not so good.
Believe me I would prefer not to be in the position of forking out more dinaro but its the nature of the beast. Air Operators now know they never have to set up their own schemes again in the time since 9/11 if they don't want to. There is an eager and willing pool of us willing to fork out the hard cash and get ourselves the licences and TR's. Why should they bother with the extra admin, cost and hassle.
Question is . . . Airbus or Boeing? Then its A320 family, A330 or alternatively 737 or 767?
That's what I need to know from you lot at this stage.
I have looked into a scheme where I pay $44,000 to get FAA Part 135 training then a type rating on either a Lear or a Citation and then fly until I get a job elsewhere. Multi Engine, Jet time = Good on CV, $44k for the priviledge, both citation and lear less than what majors consider 'relevant hours' = Not so good.
Believe me I would prefer not to be in the position of forking out more dinaro but its the nature of the beast. Air Operators now know they never have to set up their own schemes again in the time since 9/11 if they don't want to. There is an eager and willing pool of us willing to fork out the hard cash and get ourselves the licences and TR's. Why should they bother with the extra admin, cost and hassle.
Question is . . . Airbus or Boeing? Then its A320 family, A330 or alternatively 737 or 767?
That's what I need to know from you lot at this stage.
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it put's you at a huge advantage when applying for jobs.
Ok, so I am a member of the "Clan" (if that is those of us who never paid for a job) so perhaps I have a different perspective on things. But, this whole idea of trying to "get ahead" of everyone else by selling yourself cheaper is just not a good idea - not for you, us "clanmembers" or any other pilot!
Where does it end?
You buy the rating. Next guy buy rating+Line Training - now all of a sudden you are not "ahead" anymore. The next one then TR-LT and works the first year for free...etc. etc.
Just don't do it. Don't!
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9/11?
scameron, stop blaming 9/11 for this farcical situation, it is being created soley by people like you, buying a type rating. Be a man and own up to it, it is your ilk ruining this industry. As has been said, if you don't do it, the airlines will have to pay for your training, and pay you. "Xanadu" has been fecked over by all you wannabes with stars in your eyes about flying jets. 
You don't want to "build up time" on a 146 or a Kingair? Why, is it beneath you? Don't underestimate the difficulty of doing a type rating on a jet with your hours. If you and niknak think this is the way to fame, fortune and personal glory, you are very sadly mistaken. Where do you actually think this will lead?
Don't pay for it, and don't make the mistake of thinking the career path to the jets is no fun, its the most fun flying you will do, and you will meet and make great freinds along the way. Thats the way it worked for me, and I have no regrets.
Nosey
You don't want to "build up time" on a 146 or a Kingair? Why, is it beneath you? Don't underestimate the difficulty of doing a type rating on a jet with your hours. If you and niknak think this is the way to fame, fortune and personal glory, you are very sadly mistaken. Where do you actually think this will lead?
Don't pay for it, and don't make the mistake of thinking the career path to the jets is no fun, its the most fun flying you will do, and you will meet and make great freinds along the way. Thats the way it worked for me, and I have no regrets.
Nosey
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PPRuNe thread formula = 5 decent posts then namecalling
Hi Folks,
I also wrote something about 'hornets nests' and 'axe grinding' and of course, my personal favourite 'refrain from posting derogatory comments unless they add to the discussion'.
This is meant to be an informed debate.
I am going ahead with paying for my own type rating, whither some of you other there like it or not, on 250 hours with a measly FAA CPL/ME/IR doesn't really cut much mustard out there, some of you may have forgotten that.
As for 9/11, anyone in this industry who things the events on that day haven't changed aviation for ever have sadly been living in Xanadu for the past 5 years. Why not tell the guys on the BA sponsorship scheme due to start in October 2001 that 9/11 didn't affect them. I had a friend get a phone call on the 12th telling him it was cancelled indefinitely and surprisingly no recommencement since.
To be honest I don't look at working an apprenticeship on smaller aircraft as a bad thing, its just I want to get to a specific place and I want to get there as quickly as possible. I bet there is not one of you out there that took an exit off a choc-a-block motorway to use backstreets to get to your final destination.
Nosegear I trust you read the bit in brackets that I typed after the King Air BAe146 bit? 'Before I get abuse - I'm not denigrating this method'. Possibly not based on your response.
Now as normal on here this has went to base name calling, misinterpretation and tit for tat b/s we are used to. So far nobody has answered any of my questions, which are:
What manufacturer?
What model?
and Where?
All I've got is 'don't do it' and 'sellout' from people who already appear to be in a nice situation.
I also wrote something about 'hornets nests' and 'axe grinding' and of course, my personal favourite 'refrain from posting derogatory comments unless they add to the discussion'.
This is meant to be an informed debate.
I am going ahead with paying for my own type rating, whither some of you other there like it or not, on 250 hours with a measly FAA CPL/ME/IR doesn't really cut much mustard out there, some of you may have forgotten that.
As for 9/11, anyone in this industry who things the events on that day haven't changed aviation for ever have sadly been living in Xanadu for the past 5 years. Why not tell the guys on the BA sponsorship scheme due to start in October 2001 that 9/11 didn't affect them. I had a friend get a phone call on the 12th telling him it was cancelled indefinitely and surprisingly no recommencement since.
To be honest I don't look at working an apprenticeship on smaller aircraft as a bad thing, its just I want to get to a specific place and I want to get there as quickly as possible. I bet there is not one of you out there that took an exit off a choc-a-block motorway to use backstreets to get to your final destination.
Nosegear I trust you read the bit in brackets that I typed after the King Air BAe146 bit? 'Before I get abuse - I'm not denigrating this method'. Possibly not based on your response.
Now as normal on here this has went to base name calling, misinterpretation and tit for tat b/s we are used to. So far nobody has answered any of my questions, which are:
What manufacturer?
What model?
and Where?
All I've got is 'don't do it' and 'sellout' from people who already appear to be in a nice situation.
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Scameron 777
Nosegear is correct.Later on in your career you will understand why its the airline responsibility to train you.I must say you sound a bit harsh on your last post.....dont take that into the cockpit....please.All i can say is 'dont pay for the type rating'.
Nosegear is correct.Later on in your career you will understand why its the airline responsibility to train you.I must say you sound a bit harsh on your last post.....dont take that into the cockpit....please.All i can say is 'dont pay for the type rating'.
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again
scameron, you don't want advice, you want endorsement of your actions. You trot out some pretty weak arguments, but it boils down to the fact that your just bloody lazy. So you thought you would jump on here and appeal to the "long in the tooth" ppruners to get approval. Wrong move boy. You and all the pay for a TR children who just want to get there quickly just don't seem to realise the damage you ARE doing to the industry. You talk about Xanadu, well we had it, until you fools decided that paying for your training was the way "to get there quickly". It can't be that hard to understand, surely?
"I am going ahead with paying for my own type rating, whither some of you other there like it or not, on 250 hours with a measly FAA CPL/ME/IR doesn't really cut much mustard out there, some of you may have forgotten that."
And just where do you think all the rest of us came from? Born with 5000 hours? No, its called hard work and persistance.
"All I've got is 'don't do it' and 'sellout' from people who already appear to be in a nice situation."
How the hell do you think we got to be in a "nice situation"? See above re: hardwork, persistance etc
"This is meant to be an informed debate" No its not, its a plea for sympathy and sanction.
The BA cadets are completely different from you, the airline is paying for their training. Of course 9/11 changed the face of the industry, just not the way your trying to use it as an excuse for your actions.
Nosey
"I am going ahead with paying for my own type rating, whither some of you other there like it or not, on 250 hours with a measly FAA CPL/ME/IR doesn't really cut much mustard out there, some of you may have forgotten that."
And just where do you think all the rest of us came from? Born with 5000 hours? No, its called hard work and persistance.
"All I've got is 'don't do it' and 'sellout' from people who already appear to be in a nice situation."
How the hell do you think we got to be in a "nice situation"? See above re: hardwork, persistance etc
"This is meant to be an informed debate" No its not, its a plea for sympathy and sanction.
The BA cadets are completely different from you, the airline is paying for their training. Of course 9/11 changed the face of the industry, just not the way your trying to use it as an excuse for your actions.
Nosey
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Buying a Type Rating
That's a tough one!!!!
Or maybe not......
Speaking from experience not so long ago I only had 273hrs!!!! No one wanted to look at me, I spent many months looking for employment, I spent countless hours over the phone and the internet getting knock backs!!! To be quite honest with you in the beggining It was rather embarrasing calling one of these companys up telling them I had a Grand Total of 273hrs and that I was happy to be of service!!!! Boy by the end of all the Knock backs and the No's and the "Sorry No Vacancies at the moment" or " It's hard to get you a work Permit" etc I was actually getting a kick out of all of it!!! I know it sounds a bit warped but knowing that I was gonna be told " Sorry no positions" (meaning there are no pilot positions going for someone like me with my grand total of 273hrs of mainly piston single flying) was kind of fun because it definately made me feel more relaxed over the phone or in person even cracking a joke with the interviewer to calm the mood!!!!
To cut a long story short ( I hope) after about 8 months of knock backs and feeling very guilty about the large some of money that I had just spent on getting my FAA COM/IR and getting nowhere, can you imagine I was even told I didn't have enough Experience to fly a C206!!!!! I was livid!!!!
I Finally decided that I was going to go and fork out even more money to do my instructor ratings and build time that way.
Then one very Hungover sunday at the pool just by chance I met up with the Chief Pilot of the company I ended up working for, we had a chat he decided that he'd give me a go, as they were desperate for F/O's, now because I was a forigner they had problems with bonding me so they made me pay for my rating but as it happend the Rating happend to be less than what I would pay for my CFI,MEI,CFII, and I was going to get Multi Crew, Multi Turbine you know all the good stuff and I was going to get payed!!!!!!! So thats what I did and 6 months later I was able to pay off my rating, I was off the ground and Life was good!!!
I know It's hard for you, I think all of us have been where you are I believe I was given a pretty good opportunity, and I know that most guy's or girls straight out of school would have done the same.
Now with my 2500 odd hours with all that pretty good stuff behind me. If you were to ask me to pay for a Rating, my answer to you would be Sorry but I don't pay to work, infact I left a company because they wanted me to fork out some unrealistic amount of money to continue to fly for them on their bigger fleet!!!!
My opinion is what you need to do is to get a job that gets you off the ground and up and running so to speak!!!! Now there are definately much cheaper way's of doing this than going of to American Eagle or who ever it might be and just handing them 44,000USD!!!!!
Did you ever consider going to Africa? There is tonnes of work going in Southern Africa, East Africa, you don't get payed much but you get that all important experience and foot in the door!!! And more importantly you will probably end up Saving 44,000 USD and having the adventures of a life time!!!!! I can definately say I did!!!!!!
At the end of the day mate it's up to you. I definately have to agree with the rest of the guys Persistance in the name of the game here!!!! Don't take no for an answer and explore all of your options before going out and handing someone or some organisation some vast some of money!!!!
Happy Landings,
Pete
Or maybe not......
Speaking from experience not so long ago I only had 273hrs!!!! No one wanted to look at me, I spent many months looking for employment, I spent countless hours over the phone and the internet getting knock backs!!! To be quite honest with you in the beggining It was rather embarrasing calling one of these companys up telling them I had a Grand Total of 273hrs and that I was happy to be of service!!!! Boy by the end of all the Knock backs and the No's and the "Sorry No Vacancies at the moment" or " It's hard to get you a work Permit" etc I was actually getting a kick out of all of it!!! I know it sounds a bit warped but knowing that I was gonna be told " Sorry no positions" (meaning there are no pilot positions going for someone like me with my grand total of 273hrs of mainly piston single flying) was kind of fun because it definately made me feel more relaxed over the phone or in person even cracking a joke with the interviewer to calm the mood!!!!
To cut a long story short ( I hope) after about 8 months of knock backs and feeling very guilty about the large some of money that I had just spent on getting my FAA COM/IR and getting nowhere, can you imagine I was even told I didn't have enough Experience to fly a C206!!!!! I was livid!!!!
I Finally decided that I was going to go and fork out even more money to do my instructor ratings and build time that way.
Then one very Hungover sunday at the pool just by chance I met up with the Chief Pilot of the company I ended up working for, we had a chat he decided that he'd give me a go, as they were desperate for F/O's, now because I was a forigner they had problems with bonding me so they made me pay for my rating but as it happend the Rating happend to be less than what I would pay for my CFI,MEI,CFII, and I was going to get Multi Crew, Multi Turbine you know all the good stuff and I was going to get payed!!!!!!! So thats what I did and 6 months later I was able to pay off my rating, I was off the ground and Life was good!!!
I know It's hard for you, I think all of us have been where you are I believe I was given a pretty good opportunity, and I know that most guy's or girls straight out of school would have done the same.
Now with my 2500 odd hours with all that pretty good stuff behind me. If you were to ask me to pay for a Rating, my answer to you would be Sorry but I don't pay to work, infact I left a company because they wanted me to fork out some unrealistic amount of money to continue to fly for them on their bigger fleet!!!!
My opinion is what you need to do is to get a job that gets you off the ground and up and running so to speak!!!! Now there are definately much cheaper way's of doing this than going of to American Eagle or who ever it might be and just handing them 44,000USD!!!!!
Did you ever consider going to Africa? There is tonnes of work going in Southern Africa, East Africa, you don't get payed much but you get that all important experience and foot in the door!!! And more importantly you will probably end up Saving 44,000 USD and having the adventures of a life time!!!!! I can definately say I did!!!!!!
At the end of the day mate it's up to you. I definately have to agree with the rest of the guys Persistance in the name of the game here!!!! Don't take no for an answer and explore all of your options before going out and handing someone or some organisation some vast some of money!!!!
Happy Landings,
Pete
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First real piece of useful advice I've been given, thanks Pete, just had to wade through the bile.
Lets just clear up a few things:
Would I have preferred to have a future employer take up the strain of my 0-250 training costs? YES
Would I like to get a job that has a type rating attached? YES
I'm NOT advocating paying for a type rating, I'm SUGGESTING that its something that newly qualified pilots should research and give ample thought to.
When I look at everything from a distance and with my 'business' spectacles on I can see SOME sense in maybe shelling out £20k for a A320 family type rating based on a FO job at £18-20k, using Pete's own experience 8 months on the dole equates to around £14k salary for a net loss of £6k but you would expect around 500 hours on type in that time into the log book. I would say in the current climate that MAYBE could be considered break-even. That is if you are able to get that elusive job as soon as.
The above is based on the only model I have open to me so far, some bits may be generous, some conservative and some optimistic, also the market seems to change day by day at the moment.
With respect to me, nothing is definite at the moment, its just with examining the cold hard facts paying for my own type rating does APPEAR to have quite a few positives countered by 20,000 negatives, and don't get me wrong those 20,000 (if I opt for it) will hurt tremendously.
As for persistence and hard work, I've done plenty of spreadsheets and background research to help find a job when I get the final exam out the way.
Tropical Wave - Could you explain what you mean by 'later in your career you'll understand'. Can you please give me the advice so I can make an informed decision now? As for being harsh, you have seen the bashing I've taken?
There does seem to be a definite 'anti-DIY' movement from current line pilots, I just need to understand why this is. Would it be the fear that airlines may demand it in future from all currently employed pilots? Or comparable to a FAA pilot on 3,000 hours sitting 2 exams and getting his JAA ATPL opposed to the 14 toughies that everyone else has had to sit?
For some reason I can't but help remembering when I was in the reserve forces back home, we did some really bone, banal, pointless, in-efficient stuff to pass training courses and sat at night moaning constantly how we would change it. When it came time for the next batch of guys to come through, did we change anything? Did we give them an easier time? Hell no, because we had to do it the hard way.
Nosegear I do want advice, I'm crying out for it, unfortunately only a couple of people have offered it, maybe in between patronising me and the sound of you sharpening those knives drowned out my pitiful cries. I'm not looking for your endorsement, I'll do what I think is right for me based on what I learn.
Whats your beef? Surely by your reasoning if everyone out there paying for their own 0 to CPL training were to stop then the airlines would take up the cost? Or is it OK to pay to get to that stage then get employers to pay for the the additional training. Students of Naples, Rainbow, Riddle, Jerez, Oxford, we're on strike as from tomorrow until the big boys get their act together.
Unfortunately, it seems that so many people out there want to do this job and are prepared to go into serious debt to facilitate it, consequently I'd personally be surprised if anything to what was in place prior to 9-11 is rekindled. From my research before I started it appears that the best anyone starting out can hope for now is something like the Britannia £15,000 part sponsorship scheme with a long bond (remember no guarantees of employment with this). It may be the case that there are better offers out there but I haven't checked the sponsorship forum since I shelled out my cash, for fear of seeing something better or endorsing my decision, both options don't make pretty reading for me.
Training captains who hire CPL/IR's on 250 from Jerez and Oxford watch out, don't walk down dark alleys at night in Hong Kong.
Lets just clear up a few things:
Would I have preferred to have a future employer take up the strain of my 0-250 training costs? YES
Would I like to get a job that has a type rating attached? YES
I'm NOT advocating paying for a type rating, I'm SUGGESTING that its something that newly qualified pilots should research and give ample thought to.
When I look at everything from a distance and with my 'business' spectacles on I can see SOME sense in maybe shelling out £20k for a A320 family type rating based on a FO job at £18-20k, using Pete's own experience 8 months on the dole equates to around £14k salary for a net loss of £6k but you would expect around 500 hours on type in that time into the log book. I would say in the current climate that MAYBE could be considered break-even. That is if you are able to get that elusive job as soon as.
The above is based on the only model I have open to me so far, some bits may be generous, some conservative and some optimistic, also the market seems to change day by day at the moment.
With respect to me, nothing is definite at the moment, its just with examining the cold hard facts paying for my own type rating does APPEAR to have quite a few positives countered by 20,000 negatives, and don't get me wrong those 20,000 (if I opt for it) will hurt tremendously.
As for persistence and hard work, I've done plenty of spreadsheets and background research to help find a job when I get the final exam out the way.
Tropical Wave - Could you explain what you mean by 'later in your career you'll understand'. Can you please give me the advice so I can make an informed decision now? As for being harsh, you have seen the bashing I've taken?
There does seem to be a definite 'anti-DIY' movement from current line pilots, I just need to understand why this is. Would it be the fear that airlines may demand it in future from all currently employed pilots? Or comparable to a FAA pilot on 3,000 hours sitting 2 exams and getting his JAA ATPL opposed to the 14 toughies that everyone else has had to sit?
For some reason I can't but help remembering when I was in the reserve forces back home, we did some really bone, banal, pointless, in-efficient stuff to pass training courses and sat at night moaning constantly how we would change it. When it came time for the next batch of guys to come through, did we change anything? Did we give them an easier time? Hell no, because we had to do it the hard way.
Nosegear I do want advice, I'm crying out for it, unfortunately only a couple of people have offered it, maybe in between patronising me and the sound of you sharpening those knives drowned out my pitiful cries. I'm not looking for your endorsement, I'll do what I think is right for me based on what I learn.
Whats your beef? Surely by your reasoning if everyone out there paying for their own 0 to CPL training were to stop then the airlines would take up the cost? Or is it OK to pay to get to that stage then get employers to pay for the the additional training. Students of Naples, Rainbow, Riddle, Jerez, Oxford, we're on strike as from tomorrow until the big boys get their act together.
Unfortunately, it seems that so many people out there want to do this job and are prepared to go into serious debt to facilitate it, consequently I'd personally be surprised if anything to what was in place prior to 9-11 is rekindled. From my research before I started it appears that the best anyone starting out can hope for now is something like the Britannia £15,000 part sponsorship scheme with a long bond (remember no guarantees of employment with this). It may be the case that there are better offers out there but I haven't checked the sponsorship forum since I shelled out my cash, for fear of seeing something better or endorsing my decision, both options don't make pretty reading for me.
Training captains who hire CPL/IR's on 250 from Jerez and Oxford watch out, don't walk down dark alleys at night in Hong Kong.
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Go on then, pay for your rating. You clearly want us to say it is a good idea - it's not.
BUT when you have a rating on your Airbus or Boeing who do you think will touch you with 250 hours TT and no experience on line? Nobody. Ezy won't entertain the thought. Guys from CTC are struggling with the transition, and they have come through a training scheme which EZY has audited and approved. And we are assuming you will actually pass the TR. The TR course doesn't teach you to fly so if your handling isn't up to scratch you'll fail. As for 767/A330, my sides are still hurting from reading that one!
BUT when you have a rating on your Airbus or Boeing who do you think will touch you with 250 hours TT and no experience on line? Nobody. Ezy won't entertain the thought. Guys from CTC are struggling with the transition, and they have come through a training scheme which EZY has audited and approved. And we are assuming you will actually pass the TR. The TR course doesn't teach you to fly so if your handling isn't up to scratch you'll fail. As for 767/A330, my sides are still hurting from reading that one!
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So what I can take from your post is:
a) You think there is no gain in paying for your own TR
b) If line training is offered along with a TR course then that would be most benefitial.
c) TR's centre on flight operations and proceedures in the specific aircraft rather than on teaching flying, it is assumed that you should be able to handle a heavy aircraft with adequate skill without additional instruction.
d) Job prospects aren't too good with minimums even with a valid TR.
e) You think it is folly to consider A330/B767
f) You need to visit the A&E at Bristol Royal Infirmary
As I said before, so often I'll be here for a while copy and pasting examples, I'm not dead set, I am doing research to see if its viable and would aid the career at this point. However I don't feel the hearty distain for suggesting such a path that has been levelled against me is wholly justified.
a) You think there is no gain in paying for your own TR
b) If line training is offered along with a TR course then that would be most benefitial.
c) TR's centre on flight operations and proceedures in the specific aircraft rather than on teaching flying, it is assumed that you should be able to handle a heavy aircraft with adequate skill without additional instruction.
d) Job prospects aren't too good with minimums even with a valid TR.
e) You think it is folly to consider A330/B767
f) You need to visit the A&E at Bristol Royal Infirmary
As I said before, so often I'll be here for a while copy and pasting examples, I'm not dead set, I am doing research to see if its viable and would aid the career at this point. However I don't feel the hearty distain for suggesting such a path that has been levelled against me is wholly justified.
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Stephen – Hello!
I’m a wee bit confused as to where you are going with the TR thing.
Your last thread was looking for info on converting from FAA to JAR. Have you completely canned that idea?
If you choose to stay in the US I can’t help you and will make no further comment on this aspect of your situation.
However what I will say and it is my own opinion, that you should most definitely not buy a type rating purely on a speculative basis. For a start, I think you would find it nigh on impossible to find a job on a heavy category aircraft such as the A330 or B767 with a experience of less than 1500hrs, if not more. Have a look at the websites of the airlines which operate these types for clarification.
Furthermore, I believe that by buying a type rating, your are showing to your prospective employer that you're prepared to buy almost anything to get a job. Look at Ryanair, hell at one point you even had to pay them to open your CV… Where does it stop - line training, uniforms, sim checks, fleet changes, toilet paper, your P45 when you leave……..?
Yes, there is movement in the UK employment market. Reading PPrune and Flight International will confirm this. If people continue to purchase TR’s, they only assist to degrade the T&C’s for everyone else that follows – just don’t do it mate.
Don’t you think your aiming a bit high? So many people aim to be in the RHS of a B737 or A319/320 after graduating, which I think is incredibly naive…. What’s wrong with starting at the bottom, getting the experience on a TP and then making a move!
As with your CPL/IR training, you did what you felt best suited your circumstances. If you feel buying a TR will boost your CV go for it. Personally, I think it would do more harm than good.
Good luck
Funkie
I’m a wee bit confused as to where you are going with the TR thing.
Your last thread was looking for info on converting from FAA to JAR. Have you completely canned that idea?
If you choose to stay in the US I can’t help you and will make no further comment on this aspect of your situation.
However what I will say and it is my own opinion, that you should most definitely not buy a type rating purely on a speculative basis. For a start, I think you would find it nigh on impossible to find a job on a heavy category aircraft such as the A330 or B767 with a experience of less than 1500hrs, if not more. Have a look at the websites of the airlines which operate these types for clarification.
Furthermore, I believe that by buying a type rating, your are showing to your prospective employer that you're prepared to buy almost anything to get a job. Look at Ryanair, hell at one point you even had to pay them to open your CV… Where does it stop - line training, uniforms, sim checks, fleet changes, toilet paper, your P45 when you leave……..?
Yes, there is movement in the UK employment market. Reading PPrune and Flight International will confirm this. If people continue to purchase TR’s, they only assist to degrade the T&C’s for everyone else that follows – just don’t do it mate.
Don’t you think your aiming a bit high? So many people aim to be in the RHS of a B737 or A319/320 after graduating, which I think is incredibly naive…. What’s wrong with starting at the bottom, getting the experience on a TP and then making a move!
As with your CPL/IR training, you did what you felt best suited your circumstances. If you feel buying a TR will boost your CV go for it. Personally, I think it would do more harm than good.
Good luck
Funkie