Jerez V Oxford: Again!
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Chris,
your original post was nothing if not a statement that the only schools worth considering are OAT and FTE. In your second post, you state that:
That, together with the tenor of your posts, suggested to me that you have been entirely convinced by the sales claims of these schools - and, in particular, OAT - that they have some kind of massive advantage over any other route.
In fact, had your research been somewhat more thorough, you would have discovered that the CTC Wings (modular) route statistically gives by far the best chance of airline employment for its students, and it costs rather less than OAT. Not only that, but you showed a willingness to be seduced by the Oxford halo that we have seen many, many, many times before here. Unfortunately, we have also seen many, many stories that give a somewhat different picture. You might care to look a few of them up. If they give you cause to look a little more carefully into your choices, then Pprune has done its job.
I have no problem with anyone who makes a careful study of all the options open to them and chooses an Oxford course in full knowledge of the reservations expressed by some who have been there, and with a healthy scepticism for OAT's occasionally creative attitude to claiming a hand in ex-students' subsequent employment. There are many good things about the school, but it is far from being head and shoulders above everyone else. The one area where it appears to have excelled is in its depiction of itself as the first choice of most airlines, and in convincing wannabes that OAT on the CV actually means anything.
As for your sensitivity about private schooling, beware of who you accuse of being ill-informed. As I said - far from ignoring you - come on, little fishy, the net is closing...!
Me a modular student? No, I'm afraid you're again well out. There's no secret about my history - it's covered briefly on my Profile, and in more detail in easily-found threads in this forum. Again, research is key - as I'm sure your financial coaches have been trying to convince you since you started in that field.
Scroggs
your original post was nothing if not a statement that the only schools worth considering are OAT and FTE. In your second post, you state that:
I have spoken to many, many people in the industry, pilots as well as educational and recruitment staff and i would argue that their [OAT's] boasts are justified
In fact, had your research been somewhat more thorough, you would have discovered that the CTC Wings (modular) route statistically gives by far the best chance of airline employment for its students, and it costs rather less than OAT. Not only that, but you showed a willingness to be seduced by the Oxford halo that we have seen many, many, many times before here. Unfortunately, we have also seen many, many stories that give a somewhat different picture. You might care to look a few of them up. If they give you cause to look a little more carefully into your choices, then Pprune has done its job.
I have no problem with anyone who makes a careful study of all the options open to them and chooses an Oxford course in full knowledge of the reservations expressed by some who have been there, and with a healthy scepticism for OAT's occasionally creative attitude to claiming a hand in ex-students' subsequent employment. There are many good things about the school, but it is far from being head and shoulders above everyone else. The one area where it appears to have excelled is in its depiction of itself as the first choice of most airlines, and in convincing wannabes that OAT on the CV actually means anything.
As for your sensitivity about private schooling, beware of who you accuse of being ill-informed. As I said - far from ignoring you - come on, little fishy, the net is closing...!
Me a modular student? No, I'm afraid you're again well out. There's no secret about my history - it's covered briefly on my Profile, and in more detail in easily-found threads in this forum. Again, research is key - as I'm sure your financial coaches have been trying to convince you since you started in that field.
Scroggs
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"80 grand loan that i'm having to scrape together to fund my flying training! i hadn't thought that i'm going to be paying it back for over 5 years assuming i get a job"
Is 80k over 5 years for real!!?? Including interest, I make that roughly £1500 a month!! Is this seriously the deal that HSBC are offering?? I'd be needing at least 50k, probably nearer 60k a year to even remotely stand a chance of paying that back, let alone put food on the table!
Is 80k over 5 years for real!!?? Including interest, I make that roughly £1500 a month!! Is this seriously the deal that HSBC are offering?? I'd be needing at least 50k, probably nearer 60k a year to even remotely stand a chance of paying that back, let alone put food on the table!
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i really hadn't even begun to consider the 80 grand loan that i'm having to scrape together to fund my flying training! i hadn't thought that i'm going to be paying it back for over 5 years assuming i get a job, and i certainly hadn't considered, like pretty much every other student that undertakes this major financial commitment, the very very severe effects of not finding employment within, say, six months such as having to declare bankruptcy and all of the future restrictions that that would place upon me in terms of buying property and securing all other finances
By the way, it will have to be a very good job to pay off 80k+interest in 5 years!
especially as i work in the finance industry
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Chris take to be told.
Scroggs has a lot more experience in aviation than you and has moderated/corrected/advised many people on schools/courses. You asked for advise and he's cut the long story short for you.
Employers don't really care much for the name on your CV, They will look at time on your log book with more detail. I will be going modular route thanks to many many hours of researching on here and google and the advise from the people here. That is not to say modular is the better option for everybody - but it'll suit my needs better.
I know a guy that finished Uni applied for a £50k loan with HSBC and his parents funded the rest and off he went to Jerez within 6 months of coming home he work for GB Airways and he thinks his £80k was worth it. Unfortunatly I can't take that route and will not have an £80k debt around my neck with no guarentee of a Job. I'll work my way up the ladder as a FI / Crop Sprayer / Tug or whatever else.
If you have £80k burning a hole in your pocket then good luck and I wish you all the best (even though I am jealous). I am not much older than you and I don't have a quarter of that £80k toward my training yet.
Andrew
Scroggs has a lot more experience in aviation than you and has moderated/corrected/advised many people on schools/courses. You asked for advise and he's cut the long story short for you.
Employers don't really care much for the name on your CV, They will look at time on your log book with more detail. I will be going modular route thanks to many many hours of researching on here and google and the advise from the people here. That is not to say modular is the better option for everybody - but it'll suit my needs better.
I know a guy that finished Uni applied for a £50k loan with HSBC and his parents funded the rest and off he went to Jerez within 6 months of coming home he work for GB Airways and he thinks his £80k was worth it. Unfortunatly I can't take that route and will not have an £80k debt around my neck with no guarentee of a Job. I'll work my way up the ladder as a FI / Crop Sprayer / Tug or whatever else.
If you have £80k burning a hole in your pocket then good luck and I wish you all the best (even though I am jealous). I am not much older than you and I don't have a quarter of that £80k toward my training yet.
Andrew
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I just cant believe this 80k figure, lets put things in perspective here!
My route(Modular):-
1.PPL cost - £3000
2.Hour build - cost me pretty much diddly squat thanks to getting tuggy position with local gliding club. Paid for the odd hour's rental here and there from a couple of places but not much more than £2000 tops.
3.ATPL's + exam fee's - £3500
4. I start my ME/IR followed by CPL in 2 weeks time. Im budgeting for 20k, including test fee's etc and might even manage to squeeze the MCC out of it aswell(I could probably do it cheaper than the 20k if I went overseas)
I make that a gand total of around £28500!!
I could probably treat myself to 2 or 3 of the finest all singing all dancing Boeing and Airbus type ratings and STILL not have spent 80k!!
My route(Modular):-
1.PPL cost - £3000
2.Hour build - cost me pretty much diddly squat thanks to getting tuggy position with local gliding club. Paid for the odd hour's rental here and there from a couple of places but not much more than £2000 tops.
3.ATPL's + exam fee's - £3500
4. I start my ME/IR followed by CPL in 2 weeks time. Im budgeting for 20k, including test fee's etc and might even manage to squeeze the MCC out of it aswell(I could probably do it cheaper than the 20k if I went overseas)
I make that a gand total of around £28500!!
I could probably treat myself to 2 or 3 of the finest all singing all dancing Boeing and Airbus type ratings and STILL not have spent 80k!!
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Thx Mikecr!
Add 7k for the ctc atp and wallaahh... near enough 40k, 50% cheaper than oat...25k less than FTE...
Cfwake i was like you in thinking that integrated was bling bling but after advice from people such as scroggs, pilot pete, mikecr etc and 8 years (after leaving uni) of slaving away in 2 jobs saving up the money for a integrated course i am not sure i wanna throw it all away without a gurantee of a job so if the flybe maps scheme does not work out for me i am going modular..no more thinking about it...
Best of luck with whatever you decide
Add 7k for the ctc atp and wallaahh... near enough 40k, 50% cheaper than oat...25k less than FTE...
Cfwake i was like you in thinking that integrated was bling bling but after advice from people such as scroggs, pilot pete, mikecr etc and 8 years (after leaving uni) of slaving away in 2 jobs saving up the money for a integrated course i am not sure i wanna throw it all away without a gurantee of a job so if the flybe maps scheme does not work out for me i am going modular..no more thinking about it...
Best of luck with whatever you decide
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hi everyone!
i admit, yeah 80 grand in 5 years is a hell of a lot of money, i did mean over 5 years as in more than, but more like 7 years, reading back now i realise that it sounded exactly like 80 grand in 60 months, don't know why i said that!
scroggs, i apologise if i came over sounding like i had been completely taken in by OAT - i am pretty impressed, but i am still keeping a very open mind and i have been careful not to be taken in, even if it may have sounded like it! i have, just for reason of completeness, considered the CTC wings scheme, and i am fully aware that it is probably the best school going (again i may be wrong about that), but heading over to new zealand for such an extended period of time (9 months) is not something that i am willing to undertake for my circumstances.
i also realise that OAT is no better than a lot of other flying schools, in fact much of the advice that i have had is that FTE has it beaten for training quality, hence why i'm heading over there in january to do the tests! i have seen your profile and i realise how much flying experience you had, but the replies that you gave seemed to be rather blunt and unhelpful - again i'll state that while i do think OAT graduates have a very good chance of being employed, perhaps i didn't make clear that i in no way think that they have a better chance than any other graduate, to think that OAT grads are more employable than any other would be foolish, which i suppose you could take as an argument against my needing 80 grand to go there!!! i also fully understand that the piece of paper at the end is the same as that that you can get from a modular route, it just costs a lot more, again it is something that i have realised - i realise that the most similar financial commitment that i will undertake in future will be a mortgage.
i have considered other schools, however now that i'm choosing which to go to, two of the schools that i want to go to are OAT or FTE, be that sensible or unwise (please no replies to that part as i know the opinions of many people will be the latter), but it is my choice, and again i apologise if that sounds ignorant, i assure you it isn't intended to be. everyone has to choose at some point and while there are bad sides to both schools, there are to any other school and i'm sure everyone has good and bad experiences.
DE - my profile has not been changed for a very long time hence seeing as i have been on a bit in the last few weeks i got round to updating it finally! i finished school 4 years ago!
AM - i don't think anyone has 80k burning any holes apart from a few very lucky people, but i have to say that it is very clear that there are two sides to the debate over integrated and the extra costs are either seen as ridiculous and not worth a penny,or as a worthwhile cost - there isn't going to be much give from either side on that one and i think it's very difficult to change one's opinion, yours and mine. the GBA pilot sounds to be in the same camp as myself.
so hopefully, if i can get back to my original question, with apologies to scroggs for taking exception to his (perhaps percieved) tone of his original reply, and moving away from the modular vs integrated route argument, which is not an argument that i wanted to think about in this post, can someone please tell me:
"is the technical and tutoring advantage of Oxford outweighed by just how good Jerez is? Is Jerez so much better than any other flying school or is the real-world difference minimal? I get the impression that any line looking for pilots tends to see Oxford and Jerez at a similar if not identical level."
that is NOT to say the OAT and FTE are at a level above all other flying schools around!!!! again, i am not wanting replied to the effect of 'why the hell go there then', which while valid for some people, is not of much use when i want to know if FTE has a clear advantage over OAT, leaving aside the financial aspect, which i wouldlike to assure everyone, something that i have considered very carefully. for me, i will be doing an integrated course and as i have already said, people fall into two very clearly defined camps and i am quite clearly in one. many of you guys are in another. i don't think there's much point in arguing because neither of us are going to budge! there are one or two other options that i am looking at, but for this argument all i was interested in was OAt or FTE!
scroggs, once again apologies if i came over ignorant and biased, i try not to be, but your original reply seemed to be rather less helpful to my question than i had hoped and the second reply seemed to be suggesting that i am naive and poorly informed. while i don't have anything like the experience that you have, i would argue very strongly (clearly!) against being accused of it.
i admit, yeah 80 grand in 5 years is a hell of a lot of money, i did mean over 5 years as in more than, but more like 7 years, reading back now i realise that it sounded exactly like 80 grand in 60 months, don't know why i said that!
scroggs, i apologise if i came over sounding like i had been completely taken in by OAT - i am pretty impressed, but i am still keeping a very open mind and i have been careful not to be taken in, even if it may have sounded like it! i have, just for reason of completeness, considered the CTC wings scheme, and i am fully aware that it is probably the best school going (again i may be wrong about that), but heading over to new zealand for such an extended period of time (9 months) is not something that i am willing to undertake for my circumstances.
i also realise that OAT is no better than a lot of other flying schools, in fact much of the advice that i have had is that FTE has it beaten for training quality, hence why i'm heading over there in january to do the tests! i have seen your profile and i realise how much flying experience you had, but the replies that you gave seemed to be rather blunt and unhelpful - again i'll state that while i do think OAT graduates have a very good chance of being employed, perhaps i didn't make clear that i in no way think that they have a better chance than any other graduate, to think that OAT grads are more employable than any other would be foolish, which i suppose you could take as an argument against my needing 80 grand to go there!!! i also fully understand that the piece of paper at the end is the same as that that you can get from a modular route, it just costs a lot more, again it is something that i have realised - i realise that the most similar financial commitment that i will undertake in future will be a mortgage.
i have considered other schools, however now that i'm choosing which to go to, two of the schools that i want to go to are OAT or FTE, be that sensible or unwise (please no replies to that part as i know the opinions of many people will be the latter), but it is my choice, and again i apologise if that sounds ignorant, i assure you it isn't intended to be. everyone has to choose at some point and while there are bad sides to both schools, there are to any other school and i'm sure everyone has good and bad experiences.
DE - my profile has not been changed for a very long time hence seeing as i have been on a bit in the last few weeks i got round to updating it finally! i finished school 4 years ago!
AM - i don't think anyone has 80k burning any holes apart from a few very lucky people, but i have to say that it is very clear that there are two sides to the debate over integrated and the extra costs are either seen as ridiculous and not worth a penny,or as a worthwhile cost - there isn't going to be much give from either side on that one and i think it's very difficult to change one's opinion, yours and mine. the GBA pilot sounds to be in the same camp as myself.
so hopefully, if i can get back to my original question, with apologies to scroggs for taking exception to his (perhaps percieved) tone of his original reply, and moving away from the modular vs integrated route argument, which is not an argument that i wanted to think about in this post, can someone please tell me:
"is the technical and tutoring advantage of Oxford outweighed by just how good Jerez is? Is Jerez so much better than any other flying school or is the real-world difference minimal? I get the impression that any line looking for pilots tends to see Oxford and Jerez at a similar if not identical level."
that is NOT to say the OAT and FTE are at a level above all other flying schools around!!!! again, i am not wanting replied to the effect of 'why the hell go there then', which while valid for some people, is not of much use when i want to know if FTE has a clear advantage over OAT, leaving aside the financial aspect, which i wouldlike to assure everyone, something that i have considered very carefully. for me, i will be doing an integrated course and as i have already said, people fall into two very clearly defined camps and i am quite clearly in one. many of you guys are in another. i don't think there's much point in arguing because neither of us are going to budge! there are one or two other options that i am looking at, but for this argument all i was interested in was OAt or FTE!
scroggs, once again apologies if i came over ignorant and biased, i try not to be, but your original reply seemed to be rather less helpful to my question than i had hoped and the second reply seemed to be suggesting that i am naive and poorly informed. while i don't have anything like the experience that you have, i would argue very strongly (clearly!) against being accused of it.
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so, my question, to put it more clearly:
which, FTE or OAT (speaking ideally to people who have experience of both) seems to have it more licked, FTE claim that their grads have an average 8% higher marks than other schools - is this true? Are OAT facilities better and (cost aside for this time) if they are, are they going to be of any benefit to me over FTE's teaching? is FTE teaching better than OAT's?
i'll state, to make it perfectly clear, that ultimately if it is a1 facilities or a1 teaching, i'd prefer to go for teaching but obviosuly until i'm taught, i will not know whose seems to be successful for more people.
thank you guys
which, FTE or OAT (speaking ideally to people who have experience of both) seems to have it more licked, FTE claim that their grads have an average 8% higher marks than other schools - is this true? Are OAT facilities better and (cost aside for this time) if they are, are they going to be of any benefit to me over FTE's teaching? is FTE teaching better than OAT's?
i'll state, to make it perfectly clear, that ultimately if it is a1 facilities or a1 teaching, i'd prefer to go for teaching but obviosuly until i'm taught, i will not know whose seems to be successful for more people.
thank you guys
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One thing that I will say about either school Chris, I believe that when you go integrated, you are expected to sit all 14 of your ATPL ground exams in a 6month period. Now that, by anyones book, is a hard old slogg. I have my last lot of exams next week and I started a full time course in mid-April. To put it bluntly, the course was no bed of rosses - the majority of the notes were crap, some tutors were not the greatest - but heh, I'm on the final stage and fingers crossed, next Thursday, it will all be a distant memory! Now, I don't know how either FTE or OAT's groundschool fairs and I don't really know how they do it, but the idea of doing a fantastic deal of 'learning' over 6 months may be a misconception. You might do a great deal of 'learning to recognise what the answer is!' That said, people get through and get good pass rates - however they probably do it the same way as the majority - you will learn to love and respect the online question bank!
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Not sure too many people will have experience of both, one integrated course is expensive enough let alone two!
Perhaps it will be a lifestyle choice for you as you mentioned before that 9 months in NZ was too long in any circumstance, have you considered that 15 months in southern Spain may also be a problem?
Perhaps it will be a lifestyle choice for you as you mentioned before that 9 months in NZ was too long in any circumstance, have you considered that 15 months in southern Spain may also be a problem?
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thanks CK! i thought 6 months would be pretty hard going which is why i like the thought of doing it all in one go with no flying to dilute it, i tend to find that for myself, a long, hard slog with no distractions tends to work better! but interested to know, ad this may be lazy on my part for not looking, which notes did you use?
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TTA, oh yes!!!! but it ain't a day's long flight to get there! i know the problem with asking this question but am hoping that someone'll have enough useful experience of either school, be they students or other!
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Thx Mikecr!
Add 7k for the ctc atp and wallaahh... near enough 40k, 50% cheaper than oat...25k less than FTE...
Cfwake i was like you in thinking that integrated was bling bling but after advice from people such as scroggs, pilot pete, mikecr etc and 8 years (after leaving uni) of slaving away in 2 jobs saving up the money for a integrated course i am not sure i wanna throw it all away without a gurantee of a job so if the flybe maps scheme does not work out for me i am going modular..no more thinking about it...
Best of luck with whatever you decide
Add 7k for the ctc atp and wallaahh... near enough 40k, 50% cheaper than oat...25k less than FTE...
Cfwake i was like you in thinking that integrated was bling bling but after advice from people such as scroggs, pilot pete, mikecr etc and 8 years (after leaving uni) of slaving away in 2 jobs saving up the money for a integrated course i am not sure i wanna throw it all away without a gurantee of a job so if the flybe maps scheme does not work out for me i am going modular..no more thinking about it...
Best of luck with whatever you decide
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Notes
Chirs, I'd rather not say about the notes on a public forum. The good thing for you is that the chance of you getting your hands on them are very slim - they are not for sale on the open market as they are part of a course.
I did however use some Oxford Texts and their Met CDROM, and found them to be excellent. I could also recommend Campbell & Bagshaw's 'Human Performance and Limitations in Aviation' as a reference text for HPL.
I did however use some Oxford Texts and their Met CDROM, and found them to be excellent. I could also recommend Campbell & Bagshaw's 'Human Performance and Limitations in Aviation' as a reference text for HPL.
Last edited by Callsign Kilo; 29th Nov 2006 at 08:29. Reason: spelling
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fair enough thanks for the info, i've been using AC Kermode's "Mechanics of Flight" for my introduction to it all asi want to be pretty read up when i start, and while i'm finding it pretty hard going at times, it's a very good book - trying to get my hands on flying without formulae at the mo!!!
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cfwake,
You seem like an intelligent/ articulate guy (or girl) who just needs to take a more closer look at the market around. There are quite a few other options a part from the Oxford integrated route. It took me along while to get an understanding for the exact course content of all modules and exams to get the licences and then employment. This includes almost every flight school, every palce where you can get a type rating, all the prices, who's hiring, what qualification etc, basic syllabi and all this as every ppruner knows is ever changing.
What you will find in the process is a particular route will really appeal to you and others will make you wonder how the hell others can follow their own path.
I think there is something about Oxford where most wannabees are first attracted. There is certainly a sense of security in their marketing, however real that sense of security is left for conclusion for those who have gone right through the school and their bank accounts. All in all, you will find lot's of guys from Oxford who are really pleased and have the BA job and alike and then you'll also find some who have had to fork out for the Ryanair route or another expensive scheme where they could have spent a hell of a lot less and done it on a modular course.
As for Scroggs having a go at integrated courses and public school. I have to becareful because when you meet people you only meet a sample of a course etc, but he has a point - FROM MY PERSPECTIVE - I get the impression that lots have gone to very good schools and I imagine doesn't do them any harm in getting there job with the right airs and graces. Flying is (for some) and has been and 'old boys' club to an extent for some, especially at some establishments but this doesn't mean its exclcsive in anyway to anyone! There is nothing wrong with going to public school and I don't think that's what anyone is trying to suggest.
Anyway, I went to public school I couldn't give a sh*t if someone had ago don't be too sensitive.
As with this whole Jerz V Oxford. From my perspective both offer the same intensity academically and very similar formal approach. So I wold would shy from debating aircraft type etc and take into account questions like,
environment?
Will I like living in sunny spain, however away from home, what if something goes wrong?
or
The interest on the BBA bank is so much metter than HSBC.
Do more Oxford/ Jerez graduates end up paying for their type rating?
I think you'll find that no one can tell you one is better than the other. It's just up to your sutiablity and gutt.
hope this helps and good luck to everyone especially,
cfwake - you'll get there!
cheers
You seem like an intelligent/ articulate guy (or girl) who just needs to take a more closer look at the market around. There are quite a few other options a part from the Oxford integrated route. It took me along while to get an understanding for the exact course content of all modules and exams to get the licences and then employment. This includes almost every flight school, every palce where you can get a type rating, all the prices, who's hiring, what qualification etc, basic syllabi and all this as every ppruner knows is ever changing.
What you will find in the process is a particular route will really appeal to you and others will make you wonder how the hell others can follow their own path.
I think there is something about Oxford where most wannabees are first attracted. There is certainly a sense of security in their marketing, however real that sense of security is left for conclusion for those who have gone right through the school and their bank accounts. All in all, you will find lot's of guys from Oxford who are really pleased and have the BA job and alike and then you'll also find some who have had to fork out for the Ryanair route or another expensive scheme where they could have spent a hell of a lot less and done it on a modular course.
As for Scroggs having a go at integrated courses and public school. I have to becareful because when you meet people you only meet a sample of a course etc, but he has a point - FROM MY PERSPECTIVE - I get the impression that lots have gone to very good schools and I imagine doesn't do them any harm in getting there job with the right airs and graces. Flying is (for some) and has been and 'old boys' club to an extent for some, especially at some establishments but this doesn't mean its exclcsive in anyway to anyone! There is nothing wrong with going to public school and I don't think that's what anyone is trying to suggest.
Anyway, I went to public school I couldn't give a sh*t if someone had ago don't be too sensitive.
As with this whole Jerz V Oxford. From my perspective both offer the same intensity academically and very similar formal approach. So I wold would shy from debating aircraft type etc and take into account questions like,
environment?
Will I like living in sunny spain, however away from home, what if something goes wrong?
or
The interest on the BBA bank is so much metter than HSBC.
Do more Oxford/ Jerez graduates end up paying for their type rating?
I think you'll find that no one can tell you one is better than the other. It's just up to your sutiablity and gutt.
hope this helps and good luck to everyone especially,
cfwake - you'll get there!
cheers
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cfwake,
You seem like an intelligent/ articulate guy (or girl) who just needs to take a more closer look at the market around. There are quite a few other options a part from the Oxford integrated route. It took me along while to get an understanding for the exact course content of all modules and exams to get the licences and then employment. This includes almost every flight school, every palce where you can get a type rating, all the prices, who's hiring, what qualification etc, basic syllabi and all this as every ppruner knows is ever changing.
What you will find in the process is a particular route will really appeal to you and others will make you wonder how the hell others can follow their own path.
I think there is something about Oxford where most wannabees are first attracted. There is certainly a sense of security in their marketing, however real that sense of security is left for conclusion for those who have gone right through the school and their bank accounts. All in all, you will find lot's of guys from Oxford who are really pleased and have the BA job and alike and then you'll also find some who have had to fork out for the Ryanair route or another expensive scheme where they could have spent a hell of a lot less and done it on a modular course.
As for Scroggs having a go at integrated courses and public school. I have to becareful because when you meet people you only meet a sample of a course etc, but he has a point - FROM MY PERSPECTIVE - I get the impression that lots have gone to very good schools and I imagine doesn't do them any harm in getting there job with the right airs and graces. Flying is (for some) and has been and 'old boys' club to an extent for some, especially at some establishments but this doesn't mean its exclcsive in anyway to anyone! There is nothing wrong with going to public school and I don't think that's what anyone is trying to suggest.
Anyway, I went to public school I couldn't give a sh*t if someone had ago don't be too sensitive.
As with this whole Jerz V Oxford. From my perspective both offer the same intensity academically and very similar formal approach. So I wold would shy from debating aircraft type etc and take into account questions like,
environment?
Will I like living in sunny spain, however away from home, what if something goes wrong?
or
The interest on the BBA bank is so much metter than HSBC.
Do more Oxford/ Jerez graduates end up paying for their type rating?
I think you'll find that no one can tell you one is better than the other. It's just up to your sutiablity and gutt.
hope this helps and good luck to everyone especially,
cfwake - you'll get there!
cheers
You seem like an intelligent/ articulate guy (or girl) who just needs to take a more closer look at the market around. There are quite a few other options a part from the Oxford integrated route. It took me along while to get an understanding for the exact course content of all modules and exams to get the licences and then employment. This includes almost every flight school, every palce where you can get a type rating, all the prices, who's hiring, what qualification etc, basic syllabi and all this as every ppruner knows is ever changing.
What you will find in the process is a particular route will really appeal to you and others will make you wonder how the hell others can follow their own path.
I think there is something about Oxford where most wannabees are first attracted. There is certainly a sense of security in their marketing, however real that sense of security is left for conclusion for those who have gone right through the school and their bank accounts. All in all, you will find lot's of guys from Oxford who are really pleased and have the BA job and alike and then you'll also find some who have had to fork out for the Ryanair route or another expensive scheme where they could have spent a hell of a lot less and done it on a modular course.
As for Scroggs having a go at integrated courses and public school. I have to becareful because when you meet people you only meet a sample of a course etc, but he has a point - FROM MY PERSPECTIVE - I get the impression that lots have gone to very good schools and I imagine doesn't do them any harm in getting there job with the right airs and graces. Flying is (for some) and has been and 'old boys' club to an extent for some, especially at some establishments but this doesn't mean its exclcsive in anyway to anyone! There is nothing wrong with going to public school and I don't think that's what anyone is trying to suggest.
Anyway, I went to public school I couldn't give a sh*t if someone had ago don't be too sensitive.
As with this whole Jerz V Oxford. From my perspective both offer the same intensity academically and very similar formal approach. So I wold would shy from debating aircraft type etc and take into account questions like,
environment?
Will I like living in sunny spain, however away from home, what if something goes wrong?
or
The interest on the BBA bank is so much metter than HSBC.
Do more Oxford/ Jerez graduates end up paying for their type rating?
I think you'll find that no one can tell you one is better than the other. It's just up to your sutiablity and gutt.
hope this helps and good luck to everyone especially,
cfwake - you'll get there!
cheers
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cheers PSC! this BA debate does get me because i have to admit honestly that i haven't got the impression that it comes ahead of any other job - although i haven't visited OAT on an actual open day, just ad-hoc off the cuff trips i arranged personally.
the tr argument for modular is attractive, and i must admit that 25 grand on top of my APP or FTE integ (or any other) course is a sting in the tail, but if my choice is to start flying sooner and finish repaying what i owe (which would admittedly be a lot more) at about the same age as i would if i have saved, and had less to repay later in life, then i would choose to pay more and fly sooner, probably not the ideal thing to do i'll admit, but i am very lucky to be in a position where i can afford to take that option and i apprectiate that stroke of luck, once again i'll emphasise that in no way is the figure i'll be spending, like many hundreds of others, is certainly not a small amount...
the tr argument for modular is attractive, and i must admit that 25 grand on top of my APP or FTE integ (or any other) course is a sting in the tail, but if my choice is to start flying sooner and finish repaying what i owe (which would admittedly be a lot more) at about the same age as i would if i have saved, and had less to repay later in life, then i would choose to pay more and fly sooner, probably not the ideal thing to do i'll admit, but i am very lucky to be in a position where i can afford to take that option and i apprectiate that stroke of luck, once again i'll emphasise that in no way is the figure i'll be spending, like many hundreds of others, is certainly not a small amount...
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Chris,
You mention that the 25K on top of the APP or FTE courses, is a "sting in the tail". On top of the 80K for the course(assuming you go on the course), plus interest, im curious as to how your going to pay back over 100K, in the 7 years that you've mentioned as the probable timescale?? Looking at example payscales for new FO's with the likes of Easy etc, I cant possible see how on earth the repayments are possible. You would have to be paying around £1500 per month, on a wage that pays you only £1300 per month! Assuming your also going to need a roof over your head, put food on the table, and have some kind of life, where does the money come from?? The figures just dont fit im afraid.You tell us however that your in the finance industry, is there a magic formula or something that i've missed??
You mention that the 25K on top of the APP or FTE courses, is a "sting in the tail". On top of the 80K for the course(assuming you go on the course), plus interest, im curious as to how your going to pay back over 100K, in the 7 years that you've mentioned as the probable timescale?? Looking at example payscales for new FO's with the likes of Easy etc, I cant possible see how on earth the repayments are possible. You would have to be paying around £1500 per month, on a wage that pays you only £1300 per month! Assuming your also going to need a roof over your head, put food on the table, and have some kind of life, where does the money come from?? The figures just dont fit im afraid.You tell us however that your in the finance industry, is there a magic formula or something that i've missed??