Pilot magazine and the OAT chap
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Cheers Boogey,
It doesn't surprise me at all I did it so quickly, I flew virtually every evening for CPL and IR, did distance learning in 6 months (did hours building during this period) and PPL in a couple of months. Hours building mostly on a longish holiday in the States and most weekends doing 4-8 hours a weekend! I know I explain everything back to front but that's how my brain works this evening.
1.5 years that is all, in that time I even got promoted at work, I'm now totally fooked and I'm sure I've shortened my life by a few years, I turn 30 this year and hopefully a job will wing it's way to me soon (excuse the pun!)!!
New FO, I have a thick skin, see you on the flight deck one day!
It doesn't surprise me at all I did it so quickly, I flew virtually every evening for CPL and IR, did distance learning in 6 months (did hours building during this period) and PPL in a couple of months. Hours building mostly on a longish holiday in the States and most weekends doing 4-8 hours a weekend! I know I explain everything back to front but that's how my brain works this evening.
1.5 years that is all, in that time I even got promoted at work, I'm now totally fooked and I'm sure I've shortened my life by a few years, I turn 30 this year and hopefully a job will wing it's way to me soon (excuse the pun!)!!
New FO, I have a thick skin, see you on the flight deck one day!
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Hey that's great. But I honestly did wonder how. Now I know! It may be fairly obvious that I've come through the integrated route and it was bloody hard work! (All be it every one seems to think we're spoon fed blah blah blah.) It's interesting to see the different way our mutual goal is achieved. Sin Bin...best of luck with finding a job. Whoever it was questioning the whole time scale thing... From someone who's done the integrated course, through a big school...1.5 yrs is how long it takes, granted, that includes a bit of job hunting and a type rating at then end.
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Back to this guy in Pilot, well done to him, I just hope for his sake, in 5 years when his job has lost its novelty factor, he thinks the £100K is worth it when he can't afford the house he wants!
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Very true, the practicality of life and it's responsibilities will always come through and though he's employed he'll quickly realise that the employment is simply to repay his debt. Lets hope he doesn't disregard his debt and then find himself in a compromised position in terms of emplyment during a downturn.
£100k is a fantastic amount of unsecured debt and it's need to be looked at away from the patronage of 'aviation' and seen simply as the banks would .... your name and the amount. What OAT are doing is somewhat irresponsible when they charge what they do and then the course ends up being even more expensive. In such situations you're eventually going to come across the chap who never got employed. Now think what that would do to his/her family, the kids future, your future. FTOs are cutting as many corners as possible to market and spin their service but at the rate they're going they are practically turning themselves into a casino, either win big or loose big, that's not the way it should be.
£100k is a fantastic amount of unsecured debt and it's need to be looked at away from the patronage of 'aviation' and seen simply as the banks would .... your name and the amount. What OAT are doing is somewhat irresponsible when they charge what they do and then the course ends up being even more expensive. In such situations you're eventually going to come across the chap who never got employed. Now think what that would do to his/her family, the kids future, your future. FTOs are cutting as many corners as possible to market and spin their service but at the rate they're going they are practically turning themselves into a casino, either win big or loose big, that's not the way it should be.
I REALLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE
Originally Posted by boogie-nicey
What OAT are doing is somewhat irresponsible when they charge what they do and then the course ends up being even more expensive. In such situations you're eventually going to come across the chap who never got employed. Now think what that would do to his/her family, the kids future, your future.
SR
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Precisely it's YOUR responsibility and therefore I feel you need to take that into account when making decisions about flight training. Too many FTOs are able to lead people by their noses away from the practical aspects of everyday life and that's where the problem lies. The individual has to keep his/her wits about them like in any sales environment. You have the money and they want it and will attempt to get it from you with their sales pitch. That's just the nature of the beast I'm afraid ......
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On this note. There was something Will (the chap in Pilot) mentioned in a previous article, about 9 months ago. Ask the schools exactly how many graduates have gone to which airlines off which courses. More importantly ask the exact numbers that aren't emplyed and why. If its a good FTO, they should tell you shouldn't they? Seems like a sound peice of advice and good screening question. It'd be a shame to see someone up the stream with no paddle, £100k of debt and bank sharks after them. I guess it must happen every now and then.
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Maybe people (this chap in Pilot's article included) should ask themselves do I have the ability to save £100K thenm what right have I got to spend £100K by whatever means? The interest charged on £100K is itself high and this fool has clearly not learnt anything other ATPL knowledge, how about a bit of common sense.
Lets have another article on the guy that sacrificed all at OAT and in the end .... didn't work out. Lets hear what he has to say with his head held in his hands and mumbling intermitently through his tears
Lets have another article on the guy that sacrificed all at OAT and in the end .... didn't work out. Lets hear what he has to say with his head held in his hands and mumbling intermitently through his tears
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Get a life!.. Or a job!
This will be my last post here as I feel very little can be learnt here and the only entertainment being provided is by Bogey - Nicey. I find myself laughing at his pessimistic personality every day!
Some advice from someone that actually doesn fly a jet, not sit on here all day talking about others that do...
SinBin... Matey, you seem like a good chap. Invest time in filling out those applications and not talking to people who wish they were in your shoes. Its obvious oyu will succeed and I sincerely hope I see you on a flight deck. Remember, this industry is all about making contacts, thats how I got my job as do most.
Bogey - Nicey... A pilot generally has his head screwed on. Generally doesnt thrive on rumors and idle gossip. I get the impression you envy the likes of us in jobs and probably wish you will one day be able to get yourself on a sponsored scheme or save enough money to fund a course that will get you that job.
WHy is this silly thread so full of poison? Who cares about talking about he lads in 100k of debt? I am, I'm very young and earn a huge flying salary. Actually, I can chop my salary in half, still pay my loan and still have a fun month! Thats the reality of it!
How we have the right to spend so much money at such a young age? It's because we're bloody clever and are able to pay it back! I run a business other than flying as do a lot of integrated chaps. (Mainly property related, as I believe Will (the mag) is envolved, I can also imagine most of his loan is paid by the mag.
Good luck to those serious about getting on the flight deck and providing a responsible service...
Good riddens to those who'd rather put no effort in but sit by there computers all day offering words of wisdom...that quite frankly...are not wise at all...
I'm done!
Some advice from someone that actually doesn fly a jet, not sit on here all day talking about others that do...
SinBin... Matey, you seem like a good chap. Invest time in filling out those applications and not talking to people who wish they were in your shoes. Its obvious oyu will succeed and I sincerely hope I see you on a flight deck. Remember, this industry is all about making contacts, thats how I got my job as do most.
Bogey - Nicey... A pilot generally has his head screwed on. Generally doesnt thrive on rumors and idle gossip. I get the impression you envy the likes of us in jobs and probably wish you will one day be able to get yourself on a sponsored scheme or save enough money to fund a course that will get you that job.
WHy is this silly thread so full of poison? Who cares about talking about he lads in 100k of debt? I am, I'm very young and earn a huge flying salary. Actually, I can chop my salary in half, still pay my loan and still have a fun month! Thats the reality of it!
How we have the right to spend so much money at such a young age? It's because we're bloody clever and are able to pay it back! I run a business other than flying as do a lot of integrated chaps. (Mainly property related, as I believe Will (the mag) is envolved, I can also imagine most of his loan is paid by the mag.
Good luck to those serious about getting on the flight deck and providing a responsible service...
Good riddens to those who'd rather put no effort in but sit by there computers all day offering words of wisdom...that quite frankly...are not wise at all...
I'm done!
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Hey Boogie-Nicey
Why do you have such an axe to grind with the FTOs? They provide the training that lots of Wannabies want. That's why they are oversubscribed.
It's not the FTO's fault that the airlines stopped sponsoring. It's just the economic reality of today. Perhaps the airlines will start sponsoring again, and there is a glimmer of it starting, but we just have to live with the reality of the current situation.
The airlines deal with the FTO's, as it's easiest route to get pilots and the FTO's provide a steady stream of them. So what's the big deal.
If Wannabies don't want to shell out the cash, then train another route. It's not compulsory to use a main FTO, they have a choice. The costs are known upfront and not exactly hidden. So why the downer on the FTO's?
It's not just pilot training that needs big cash. Training to be a vet, doctor, architect etc needs loads and 5-6 years. Lots of fees and accommadation to shell out and lower starting salaries than pilots.
Skintman
Why do you have such an axe to grind with the FTOs? They provide the training that lots of Wannabies want. That's why they are oversubscribed.
It's not the FTO's fault that the airlines stopped sponsoring. It's just the economic reality of today. Perhaps the airlines will start sponsoring again, and there is a glimmer of it starting, but we just have to live with the reality of the current situation.
The airlines deal with the FTO's, as it's easiest route to get pilots and the FTO's provide a steady stream of them. So what's the big deal.
If Wannabies don't want to shell out the cash, then train another route. It's not compulsory to use a main FTO, they have a choice. The costs are known upfront and not exactly hidden. So why the downer on the FTO's?
It's not just pilot training that needs big cash. Training to be a vet, doctor, architect etc needs loads and 5-6 years. Lots of fees and accommadation to shell out and lower starting salaries than pilots.
Skintman
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I am not trying to be pessimistic but simply trying to comment on certain side issues that people neglect from time to time. I talk about debt because it can hurt lives. Indeed if it is managed well then no problem go right ahead (in fact many businesses do but they manage it effectively not blindly).
I am one of life's optimists and wish my fellow ppruners well in their job hunt, I'm sorry if my opinions came across in a cross wired fashion. Also I don't have an axe to grind other than with some antics exhibited by some FTOs, but on the whole they provide a service that people want and I'm very respectful of that.
I am one of life's optimists and wish my fellow ppruners well in their job hunt, I'm sorry if my opinions came across in a cross wired fashion. Also I don't have an axe to grind other than with some antics exhibited by some FTOs, but on the whole they provide a service that people want and I'm very respectful of that.
Last edited by boogie-nicey; 19th Jul 2006 at 16:31.
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Boogey-nicey
You sound pretty one sided against the FTO's to me.
Being pessimistic can demotivate all those that are spending their cash at the FTO's or those that are considering using a FTO.
It's simple. If someone wants to be a pilot, check out the various options on offer and make your choice. Everyone appreciates that there is a lot of cash involved, but as the airlines are not sponsoring, a wannabie has to do it himself one way or another. It can be done either fast and expensive, or slower and cheaper.
Shout at the ailines for not sponsoring, not the FTO's who just want to train pilots and fill demand.
Skintman+
You sound pretty one sided against the FTO's to me.
Being pessimistic can demotivate all those that are spending their cash at the FTO's or those that are considering using a FTO.
It's simple. If someone wants to be a pilot, check out the various options on offer and make your choice. Everyone appreciates that there is a lot of cash involved, but as the airlines are not sponsoring, a wannabie has to do it himself one way or another. It can be done either fast and expensive, or slower and cheaper.
Shout at the ailines for not sponsoring, not the FTO's who just want to train pilots and fill demand.
Skintman+
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Like I said I'm sorry if my comments were misunderstood initally. I realise that people have to pay alot for flight training, that's fine. In fact once they complete their fATPL some go onto SSTR and Line Training, that's fine too (what I'm about to do by the way) but I was merely highlighting the danger of loosing sight of expenditure.
Last edited by boogie-nicey; 19th Jul 2006 at 20:15.
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I'd just like to add that whether someone is being fully negative about the FTO's or not, it is always useful to be brought back down to earth sometimes. I've occasionally had my head runaway with ideas only to read some bad experiences and "goings ons" and realise that everything needs careful consideration.
It's not all fairytales so don't expect that to be all you hear, at the same time, persistantly putting people/places down for the hell of it doesn't help too much either.
It would be nice to hear the good stories, AND the bad stories, without the hint of bitterness that is often there at the same time!
It's not all fairytales so don't expect that to be all you hear, at the same time, persistantly putting people/places down for the hell of it doesn't help too much either.
It would be nice to hear the good stories, AND the bad stories, without the hint of bitterness that is often there at the same time!
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I agree with you NewFO, I am still trying, any chance you can PM me and let me know how you got your job? Also I'm always amazed how 90% of threads on here go Mod V Int, as far as I can see there's no difference, the only difference being you get a PPL, which, let's face it for me now means fook all!! I just can't beleive I took my wife flying with such low hours!
