Pilot magazine and the OAT chap
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I've also been looking briefly at his progress during the odd lunch at Gatwick and I also thought that spending 100k was a bit silly. I think he feels satisfied with his "investment", because he trained with OAT and he stands a good chance of getting a job as a pilot - EVEN MORE SO after being seen for many months in the Pilot mag! (good on him!!!!)
Even if I had the cash, I would be really iffy about spending that amount on training, especially when training can't guarantee a job, but by spending that amount of cash and training with OAT as integrated improves his chances massively (my opinion anyway) - while at the same time it shows that he's willing to live his life in difficulty if that job doesn't come about (which I doubt).
This person is prepared to take risks in a careless way.
Personally, I think I will stay in my paid job in management and start training for my ATPL (Cabair Uni course possibly), trying to "avoid" the problems of debt as much as I can, while being "sensible" about the whole thing. If I don't get a job as a pilot at the end, well hey, hopefully I will still have my management job as a backup.
Even if I had the cash, I would be really iffy about spending that amount on training, especially when training can't guarantee a job, but by spending that amount of cash and training with OAT as integrated improves his chances massively (my opinion anyway) - while at the same time it shows that he's willing to live his life in difficulty if that job doesn't come about (which I doubt).
This person is prepared to take risks in a careless way.
Personally, I think I will stay in my paid job in management and start training for my ATPL (Cabair Uni course possibly), trying to "avoid" the problems of debt as much as I can, while being "sensible" about the whole thing. If I don't get a job as a pilot at the end, well hey, hopefully I will still have my management job as a backup.
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JUst caught a quick glimpse of this month's Pilot magazine with another article in it of some chap who was either heading towards or just completed training at OAT. Like I said it was brief glance as I was pushed for time but I note from the last paragraph that he claimed to have spent "100k" and declared it as an investment.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=233563
Wow! thats lot of money!
+Truth747
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Well the articles on Will's progress have been in Pilot for the last 3/4 months. An integrated course lasts a touch longer so I am guessing that the outcome of the "investment" was known from Issue 1. (wont know for sure until the next issue)
Did OAT pay PILOT for the advertisement feature? Or are PILOT going to run a series on modular training when Will has got his jet job?
Maybe PILOT could do a BLOG of a flying instructor next and we could all sit waiting to find out if a student has managed to do a solo trip...
Cynical? Me?
Did OAT pay PILOT for the advertisement feature? Or are PILOT going to run a series on modular training when Will has got his jet job?
Maybe PILOT could do a BLOG of a flying instructor next and we could all sit waiting to find out if a student has managed to do a solo trip...
Cynical? Me?
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asuweb: To my knowledge, he has finished, and has a job with an airline
It's not really surprising that he has got an airline job soon after training. Fair play to him for writing his piece, and advertising himself in the process.
benhurr,
I too wonder if OAT had to pay for this publicity, and will the magazine feature a similar series of articles about another student/FTO??? Anyone got answers?
It's not really surprising that he has got an airline job soon after training. Fair play to him for writing his piece, and advertising himself in the process.
benhurr,
I too wonder if OAT had to pay for this publicity, and will the magazine feature a similar series of articles about another student/FTO??? Anyone got answers?
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He was always going to land an airline job, there was never any doubt about that, think about it, a story about a young lad & his flying training career with OAT in a glossy monthly magazine, but then !!!BAAM!!!!, it all goes tits up and he ends up with nothing at the end of it, hardly likely to happen is it, I'm not saying for one minute that he only landing the job because of this but it had to help surely, but fair play and all the best to the lad 
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Originally Posted by Deano777
He was always going to land an airline job, there was never any doubt about that, think about it, a story about a young lad & his flying training career with OAT in a glossy monthly magazine, but then !!!BAAM!!!!, it all goes tits up and he ends up with nothing at the end of it, hardly likely to happen is it, I'm not saying for one minute that he only landing the job because of this but it had to help surely, but fair play and all the best to the lad
Most people, even professionals with a good wage, need a mortgage for that, so this lucky chap has either a rich family to support him, or he's the only 19 year old without permanent job in the country who's been granted a 100 k loan from a bank.
There's nothing wrong with having a rich family, good on them and well done to them. Nothing wrong with wanting the best for your kids.
The good news is that on the same magazine you can see you can get the same sort of package from Riverside at 19 k, or if you got PPL and hours, only 11 k, which is in a way reassuring...
all the best
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Happy Endings
Yep, thanks to emigrating (again) 6 months ago I haven't seen the article, but I suspect the outcome was a foregone conclusion and it is hardly surprising....Flyer has carried a lot of less-than-subliminal Oxford-centric editorial content from for some time. In the Sunday supplements they would call it an "advertisement feature". This sounds like a shameless OAT publicity stunt; there simply had to be a happpy ending !
Actually it is this sort of thing, as opposed to the concept of the course itself, that put me off Oxford and their APP course when they launched it. It is simply not to everyone's taste.
George.
Actually it is this sort of thing, as opposed to the concept of the course itself, that put me off Oxford and their APP course when they launched it. It is simply not to everyone's taste.
George.
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Hello all.
My search had threadbare results, so can anyone point me in the right direction for threads on accommodation options at OAT during the groundschool phase? Thanks in advance.
My search had threadbare results, so can anyone point me in the right direction for threads on accommodation options at OAT during the groundschool phase? Thanks in advance.
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The OAT website and forum (www.oxfordaviation.net) are going to reveal more answers than here.
Basically, you can stay in Langford Halls (on site) or find yourself alternate accomodation.
Basically, you can stay in Langford Halls (on site) or find yourself alternate accomodation.
I REALLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE
OAT Articles
At the end of the day I don't think it really isn't worth getting one's knickers in a twist over. 
I know that were I to write articles about flight training, the one I would have written at the start of training would be very different from the one I would write now (I am currently job-seeking). Maybe the same applies to the author of the articles, I don't know.
I realise that at the start of training I held many misconceptions and fostered many inept opinions. The same undoubtedly applies now to my conceptions and opinions regarding flying for an airline. For me so far, aviation has been nothing if not a learning experience. Hopefully wannabes looking at the article will at least get a "feel" for training through the integrated route to a JAA license.
More importantly, is there really anyone out there who would solely base their decision to spend £50K-£100K on a series of articles of a 19 year old? I think it should fall under the category of light and (mostly) harmless reading.
sr
I know that were I to write articles about flight training, the one I would have written at the start of training would be very different from the one I would write now (I am currently job-seeking). Maybe the same applies to the author of the articles, I don't know.
I realise that at the start of training I held many misconceptions and fostered many inept opinions. The same undoubtedly applies now to my conceptions and opinions regarding flying for an airline. For me so far, aviation has been nothing if not a learning experience. Hopefully wannabes looking at the article will at least get a "feel" for training through the integrated route to a JAA license.
More importantly, is there really anyone out there who would solely base their decision to spend £50K-£100K on a series of articles of a 19 year old? I think it should fall under the category of light and (mostly) harmless reading.
sr
Last edited by speedrestriction; 11th Jul 2006 at 21:53.
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Originally Posted by PILOTOWL
TWIT-TWOO!!
Uni was more or less free ie. No Uni fees and a subsistance grant!
I graduated from a Oxbridge Uni and my total debt was 1500 quid after 3 years. So yes, Uni WAS free!!
My point was that OAT realise this and are targeting the younger folk ( hence the age of the chap inthe article) . Average debt from Uni is now estimated to be 25,000 quid So if you go to OAT :
Uni degree 25,000 + 65,000 OAT + 20,000 TR = 110,000 !!!!
My numbers are 10, 17 , 23, 34, 42 and 44 .
Why does 44 always come up ?
So folks Uni is not free neither is a career in aviation.
"
Uni was more or less free ie. No Uni fees and a subsistance grant!
I graduated from a Oxbridge Uni and my total debt was 1500 quid after 3 years. So yes, Uni WAS free!!
My point was that OAT realise this and are targeting the younger folk ( hence the age of the chap inthe article) . Average debt from Uni is now estimated to be 25,000 quid So if you go to OAT :
Uni degree 25,000 + 65,000 OAT + 20,000 TR = 110,000 !!!!
My numbers are 10, 17 , 23, 34, 42 and 44 .
Why does 44 always come up ?
So folks Uni is not free neither is a career in aviation.
"
I know they don't get you to you don't fly planes, but it's a well respectable career in aviation.
Where's the catch ? you have to be good to pass the selections. Not just prove them that you can (or have a family that can) commit to a 70k debt !
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Except that student loans are on a fantastic rate, and you don't have to worry about them as the taxman collects them directly, so you can't spend it.
More effective to analyse it by lowering your salary!
More effective to analyse it by lowering your salary!
I Have Control
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OAT...not for me!
But I did pass through there some years back, and got precisely nowhere as a result of my OAT training. 2 years of unemployment followed.
No first-time passes for me though, and a bit on the senior side, over 40 when I started the Upgrade Course. Made it, left the Groundschool due to low teaching standards, and finished ATPL Nav's myself.
OK now, though, mainly due to own efforts. And some good luck on the way. OAT is just another flight training establishment, no quirkier than others, bit arrogant, and rather costly. Forget its reputation, means little or nothing in the real world.
And good luck to all aspiring professionals. Sincerely. RH
No first-time passes for me though, and a bit on the senior side, over 40 when I started the Upgrade Course. Made it, left the Groundschool due to low teaching standards, and finished ATPL Nav's myself.
OK now, though, mainly due to own efforts. And some good luck on the way. OAT is just another flight training establishment, no quirkier than others, bit arrogant, and rather costly. Forget its reputation, means little or nothing in the real world.
And good luck to all aspiring professionals. Sincerely. RH
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I know the guy in question (friend of a friend) and after saying that, hes been offered an easy jet contract....All very well (not quite BA but meh) however hes been told he must pay for his type rating at around 20k..... make of that what you please but maybe he shouldnt have been quite so liberal with his words. But well done to him anyway.
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Demonstrates that once you're out of the school doors the industry treats you just the same way regardless of your OAT background 
Reality always has the last laugh and at £100K already spent his decision isn't looking expensive but more and more stupid by the day. Indeed he wanted to be a pilot like the rest of us but he'll come across someone in the corridors and offices of EasyJet to find they got their fATPL at a fraction!
Reality always has the last laugh and at £100K already spent his decision isn't looking expensive but more and more stupid by the day. Indeed he wanted to be a pilot like the rest of us but he'll come across someone in the corridors and offices of EasyJet to find they got their fATPL at a fraction!
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Originally Posted by boogie-nicey
Reality always has the last laugh and at £100K already spent his decision isn't looking expensive but more and more stupid by the day. Indeed he wanted to be a pilot like the rest of us but he'll come across someone in the corridors and offices of EasyJet to find they got their fATPL at a fraction!
D.
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Well why not do the training for fATPL.... start off with a PPL to get the feel for it from a nice respectable 'middle of the road' FTO like Wycombe Air Centre. Go onto to do the groundschool at Bristol/Cabair/BCFT/AFT, etc (all very respectable) then a nice bit of CPL & IR at Aeros or Bristol Flight Centre. That seems like good quality training to me and for a fraction of the cost. Also allows you to work full time and minimises the loan amount you need to take out too (thus at the end the true cost will be even less). Now with your relatively 'lighter' loan burden and a full time job still bringing in the money you can use some of the money saved to get a type rating and if you really want go buy some line training.
It obviously depends on individual circumstances but in the end there's more than one way to skin a cat (not that I like that kind of thing mind ). Each time something gets mentioned relating to OAT there seems to be an undercurrent of blind faith simply because of the brand name. Flying is never conducted on such aspirations but with thoughtful, factual planning.
His peers may not have been so lucky but you can bet that they did pay a fortune for their training. The difference they may not have a job at present or even anytime soon. We all see adverts of how someone made a fortune of share dealing but that doesn't necessarily mean it applies to all or even the majority.
It obviously depends on individual circumstances but in the end there's more than one way to skin a cat (not that I like that kind of thing mind
). Each time something gets mentioned relating to OAT there seems to be an undercurrent of blind faith simply because of the brand name. Flying is never conducted on such aspirations but with thoughtful, factual planning.His peers may not have been so lucky but you can bet that they did pay a fortune for their training. The difference they may not have a job at present or even anytime soon. We all see adverts of how someone made a fortune of share dealing but that doesn't necessarily mean it applies to all or even the majority.
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Actually Deano, for that kind of money the point does hold water, that said i wish the guy well and think he's found a novel way of reaching his goal, which i admire. I'm sure lots of the snide comments here are born of jealousy.
Would i want to be £100K (£120K after a type rating?) in debt at the age of 19. No chance, no matter how big the carrot being dangled. But thats just my 2 cents...
Would i want to be £100K (£120K after a type rating?) in debt at the age of 19. No chance, no matter how big the carrot being dangled. But thats just my 2 cents...
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Look...
This argument has been done to death. Ive read the article, and to be honest other than the fact that its quite well written, there is nothing else of substance included other than being a good advertisement for OAT. This guy is living proof that you can sell anything to anyone..given the right circumstances and the right marketing
I did my ATPL's a few years back on a distance learning course from OAT, and got a job off my own back (and hard-work..networking and all that) 3 months later.
The place is what you make of it..those that spend their £££'s have a choice, and thats the way it is.
As for how employers view OAT graduates....thats simple, they are cheap..ready packaged, and a known quantity, all this is from the years OAT have spent building and developing relationships with airline customers, and listening to what they want. Its a simple rule of business...find out what the market wants, and provide it at a competitive price (competitve/cheap/cost effective/cost neutral because OAT students pay through the nose)
Its all about the bottom line
This argument has been done to death. Ive read the article, and to be honest other than the fact that its quite well written, there is nothing else of substance included other than being a good advertisement for OAT. This guy is living proof that you can sell anything to anyone..given the right circumstances and the right marketing
I did my ATPL's a few years back on a distance learning course from OAT, and got a job off my own back (and hard-work..networking and all that) 3 months later.
The place is what you make of it..those that spend their £££'s have a choice, and thats the way it is.
As for how employers view OAT graduates....thats simple, they are cheap..ready packaged, and a known quantity, all this is from the years OAT have spent building and developing relationships with airline customers, and listening to what they want. Its a simple rule of business...find out what the market wants, and provide it at a competitive price (competitve/cheap/cost effective/cost neutral because OAT students pay through the nose)
Its all about the bottom line
Last edited by haughtney1; 13th Jul 2006 at 15:11.