Logbook and Logging Hours Questions
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Hi guys,
i'm hopefully quite close to be hired by an english airline company and I have some big doubt on my italian jaa titles conversion to UK CAA.
My enquiry here is to understand what i'm requested to produce for UK CAA, about my logbook, due to the fact that i'm a military pilot.
CAA UK will accept my civilian logbook with an included official statement, signed by my wing commander, certifying correctness of data?
I logged all my flight hours in an hold icao flight logbook since now, and i would like to know if i have to import all the flight hours in a new flight logbook compliant with jaa or i can do something else?
Thanks
Cheers,
Papero
i'm hopefully quite close to be hired by an english airline company and I have some big doubt on my italian jaa titles conversion to UK CAA.
My enquiry here is to understand what i'm requested to produce for UK CAA, about my logbook, due to the fact that i'm a military pilot.
CAA UK will accept my civilian logbook with an included official statement, signed by my wing commander, certifying correctness of data?
I logged all my flight hours in an hold icao flight logbook since now, and i would like to know if i have to import all the flight hours in a new flight logbook compliant with jaa or i can do something else?
Thanks
Cheers,
Papero
Hovering AND talking
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Probably best to telephone the UK CAA on +44 (0)1293 573700. Most of the people on here are ab initio civilian pilot students with little experience of military conversion.
Cheers
Whirls
Cheers
Whirls
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Ooh, first question in a while...
Am a bit confused as to what I can log this time as.
I have a CPL-ME-IR and MCC. Have been flying on a small jet - a CJ2. This CJ2 is 'authorised' (can't think of the correct word) for single pilot operations in the UK. I've been sitting in and helping with radio, nav, autopilot, checklists, etc... pretty much the duties of a co-pilot. I'm not type-rated on the CJ2. Am I able to log this as P2 or Dual? Or would it be as a Safety Pilot, i.e. SNY? Or perhaps a third option I'm not thinking of?
During one day, flew on a CJ1, internationally. Apparently, this required two crew, and I flew as the 2nd crew member, pretty much doing the same things. Is this loggable as P2, or again as SNY?
Am a bit confused as to what I can log this time as.
I have a CPL-ME-IR and MCC. Have been flying on a small jet - a CJ2. This CJ2 is 'authorised' (can't think of the correct word) for single pilot operations in the UK. I've been sitting in and helping with radio, nav, autopilot, checklists, etc... pretty much the duties of a co-pilot. I'm not type-rated on the CJ2. Am I able to log this as P2 or Dual? Or would it be as a Safety Pilot, i.e. SNY? Or perhaps a third option I'm not thinking of?
During one day, flew on a CJ1, internationally. Apparently, this required two crew, and I flew as the 2nd crew member, pretty much doing the same things. Is this loggable as P2, or again as SNY?
Educated Hillbilly
Safety pilot time cannot be logged (at least not under JAA rules). To log the hours you must hold a type rating and you must also be operating under a multi crew AOC if it is a single crew aircraft. So no you can't log anything towards your total time.
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Confirmation
Looking through many posts, and being confused by the many Articles that appear in LASORs and various other posts on the internet.
Ive been led to belive that you do not log any hours for an instructor.. however, ive seen several posts around that suggest, that you can log them as P1 when the student is logged at PUT...
Would like to work towards my unfrozen ATPL via instructing, however, im not sure its possible for these reasons.
Any help, (preferably without being tied to a stake) would be great!
All the best
Sole
Ive been led to belive that you do not log any hours for an instructor.. however, ive seen several posts around that suggest, that you can log them as P1 when the student is logged at PUT...
Would like to work towards my unfrozen ATPL via instructing, however, im not sure its possible for these reasons.
Any help, (preferably without being tied to a stake) would be great!
All the best
Sole
Educated Hillbilly
Sole,
If you are an instructor, you log the time as P1, the student logs the hours as dual. Also in most JAA appoved log books there is a seperate column labelled instructor to enable you to keep track of your total time as an instructor.
Yes instructing you can build the hours, however to unfreeze the ATPL you will need 500 hours in multi crew operations. So in effect any instructional hours flown after achieving a 1000 hours total time will not further your cause with respect to gaining a full ATPL.
If you are an instructor, you log the time as P1, the student logs the hours as dual. Also in most JAA appoved log books there is a seperate column labelled instructor to enable you to keep track of your total time as an instructor.
Yes instructing you can build the hours, however to unfreeze the ATPL you will need 500 hours in multi crew operations. So in effect any instructional hours flown after achieving a 1000 hours total time will not further your cause with respect to gaining a full ATPL.
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Another question - I recently took and passed my IR renewal in a sim. The info I could find in LASORS referred to flight tests, so I don't believe it to be relevant. I'm planning to log this as PIC U/S for the operating capacity, and just standard Simulator time in my logbook. Is this correct?
Also, whose name goes down in the PIC column. Looking back through my logbook, I put the examiners name for a successful CPL test. Was this correct?
Cheers
CS
Also, whose name goes down in the PIC column. Looking back through my logbook, I put the examiners name for a successful CPL test. Was this correct?
Cheers
CS
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You only log sim time as sim time. It does not go towards any flying totals. Apart from having recorded you have done the check it is virtually useless in the grand scope of things. It can be counted towards ATPL issue though up to a certain value.
And putting the examiners name as PIC was correct.
And putting the examiners name as PIC was correct.
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PICUS
Pilot In Command Under Supervision (of the pilot in command)
The pilot in command's name is entered as commander. If you are solo, it's you. If it's a successful check then the examiner name is entered. If it's instruction or an unsuccessful check then it goes in the DUAL column again with the instructor/examiner name as commander.
When you join an airline. When you are pilot not flying (PNF) you enter this in the co-pilot column. When you get a chance to drive you enter your time in the P1 column, capacity as PICUS and the commander down as commander.
Out of interest, when you are pilot flying (PF) in a mutli-crew aeroplane the I suggest you enter the actual airborne times (duration) in the Instrument Flying column as well.
All this is in the front of the CAP407 CAA logbook incidentally.
The pilot in command's name is entered as commander. If you are solo, it's you. If it's a successful check then the examiner name is entered. If it's instruction or an unsuccessful check then it goes in the DUAL column again with the instructor/examiner name as commander.
When you join an airline. When you are pilot not flying (PNF) you enter this in the co-pilot column. When you get a chance to drive you enter your time in the P1 column, capacity as PICUS and the commander down as commander.
Out of interest, when you are pilot flying (PF) in a mutli-crew aeroplane the I suggest you enter the actual airborne times (duration) in the Instrument Flying column as well.
All this is in the front of the CAP407 CAA logbook incidentally.
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Check with the Captain before you log it as PICUS unless your not going to bother getting them to sign it.
Some Captains get very very upset if you presume to log PICUS.
Most (myself included) don't give a toss. And some company's policy is not to allow you to log it because thier pay structure give's you a rise when you get your ATPL.
Check it out first, saves having a grumpy captain.
Some Captains get very very upset if you presume to log PICUS.
Most (myself included) don't give a toss. And some company's policy is not to allow you to log it because thier pay structure give's you a rise when you get your ATPL.
Check it out first, saves having a grumpy captain.
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Potentially stupid question...
Recently did my IR revalidation, in the aircraft as it's 2 years since my initial. Didn't bother renewing my multi rating at the same time, so that has now expired.
Do I still have an 'ME/IR', as the revalidation was done on a multi-engine a/c, or does the multi-rating need to be renewed for me to be able to put the 'ME/' bit on my CV? If I can't, would I just list it on my CV as a 'CPL/IR'?
Thanks
Scoobs
Recently did my IR revalidation, in the aircraft as it's 2 years since my initial. Didn't bother renewing my multi rating at the same time, so that has now expired.
Do I still have an 'ME/IR', as the revalidation was done on a multi-engine a/c, or does the multi-rating need to be renewed for me to be able to put the 'ME/' bit on my CV? If I can't, would I just list it on my CV as a 'CPL/IR'?
Thanks
Scoobs
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I presume that at the time of the revalidation the ME CR was valid. If not, then the IR revalidation wouldn't be valid as you wouldn't have been authorised to fly as PIC at the time (although it would be recorded as PICUS or P1S, whichever you prefer).
However, assuming that you DID hold a current ME CR at the time of the revalidation then why didn't you include the Class Rating revalidation during the same IR revalidation flight, which would see to make economical sense?
As regards CV, it is probably better to list Ratings separately with their effective dates, thereby showing the propspective employer your currency so the short answer is 'Yes, it would be better to revalidate your ME CR first', otherwise you would be listing IR, effective yada yada, ME CR, 'lapsed on yada yada'.
However, assuming that you DID hold a current ME CR at the time of the revalidation then why didn't you include the Class Rating revalidation during the same IR revalidation flight, which would see to make economical sense?
As regards CV, it is probably better to list Ratings separately with their effective dates, thereby showing the propspective employer your currency so the short answer is 'Yes, it would be better to revalidate your ME CR first', otherwise you would be listing IR, effective yada yada, ME CR, 'lapsed on yada yada'.
Bear in mind that logging PICUS in aircraft certified for operation by one pilot is acceptable only in those JAA Member States that, like the UK, have misinterpreted the requirement. JAR-FCL 1.080 indicates that PICUS may be used only "on an aeroplane on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aeroplane or as required by JAROPS".
Educated Hillbilly
Captain Scooby
If your IR was renewed on multi engine aircraft then you have a current ME/IR, so yes you can claim a current SPA ME/IR on the CV even when the MEP has lapsed (it is the same as if you had done a revalidation in the sim, you would have a current SPA ME/IR but not a current MEP).
However without a current MEP you may only exercise the IR privileges on a single (assuming your SEP is current).
However the requirement to start your first multi crew type rating is a current SPA ME/IR, as such you will not require the MEP to be current if you are fortunate enough to get a job on a multi crew type.
If your IR was renewed on multi engine aircraft then you have a current ME/IR, so yes you can claim a current SPA ME/IR on the CV even when the MEP has lapsed (it is the same as if you had done a revalidation in the sim, you would have a current SPA ME/IR but not a current MEP).
However without a current MEP you may only exercise the IR privileges on a single (assuming your SEP is current).
However the requirement to start your first multi crew type rating is a current SPA ME/IR, as such you will not require the MEP to be current if you are fortunate enough to get a job on a multi crew type.
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Question?
Hi everyone!!!
Just a quick question. Can a FI log IR time when instructing PPLīs or CPLīs the basic instrument flying? The student logs the time as IFR because heīs flying simulated instruments, but not sure about the instructor.
I mean JAA training and not during the IR course.
I couldnīt find anything on the JAR-FCL.
Thanks
Just a quick question. Can a FI log IR time when instructing PPLīs or CPLīs the basic instrument flying? The student logs the time as IFR because heīs flying simulated instruments, but not sure about the instructor.
I mean JAA training and not during the IR course.
I couldnīt find anything on the JAR-FCL.
Thanks
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Hi guys need help with this one
Have 170 and something hours, a icao CPL in a non FAA and non JAA logbook.
There is no entries for take off and landing time, so this part is going to be imcomplete if i copy the foreign logbook to a new jar logbook
I brought my logbook with me for USA, im doing some flying here with private plane owners once in a while while doing JAA ATPL.
I am logging flight hours in the foreign and in a new FAA logbook, in case i want to apply for a FAA licence by licence conversion, and the extra hours towards the 250 total, in future.
Now i notice i will need a JAR logbook, the good thing is that i kept track of my departure and arrival time while flying in USA
So im thinking to do this:
Keep logging the flights in the foreign "simple" logbook.
Kepp loggin the flights in the FAA logbook, wich later might help me for FAA licence.
Transport the total time from the foreign logbook, to JAR logbook, and log the few hours i have made in USA, because i have the times of dep and arr, and i can have it signed/stamped
Im not able to have the hours from the foreign country where i get my CPL stamped again because im not going to pay a ticket back there just for this, that s why i am thinking just to put the total from the foreign in the first line of the JAR logbook.
And when doing the JAR conversion, and applying for a Job, i show them my foreign logbook also.
What do you think
Have 170 and something hours, a icao CPL in a non FAA and non JAA logbook.
There is no entries for take off and landing time, so this part is going to be imcomplete if i copy the foreign logbook to a new jar logbook
I brought my logbook with me for USA, im doing some flying here with private plane owners once in a while while doing JAA ATPL.
I am logging flight hours in the foreign and in a new FAA logbook, in case i want to apply for a FAA licence by licence conversion, and the extra hours towards the 250 total, in future.
Now i notice i will need a JAR logbook, the good thing is that i kept track of my departure and arrival time while flying in USA
So im thinking to do this:
Keep logging the flights in the foreign "simple" logbook.
Kepp loggin the flights in the FAA logbook, wich later might help me for FAA licence.
Transport the total time from the foreign logbook, to JAR logbook, and log the few hours i have made in USA, because i have the times of dep and arr, and i can have it signed/stamped
Im not able to have the hours from the foreign country where i get my CPL stamped again because im not going to pay a ticket back there just for this, that s why i am thinking just to put the total from the foreign in the first line of the JAR logbook.
And when doing the JAR conversion, and applying for a Job, i show them my foreign logbook also.
What do you think
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Hi
I work for a UK Airline and during my interview a few years ago all they wanted to see were the total times and the licence. I dont think it matters how many log books you have. Just transfer the total times from the old book into the new one and then continue with that. Keep the old book just in case they want to see the stamps.
Hope this help?
I work for a UK Airline and during my interview a few years ago all they wanted to see were the total times and the licence. I dont think it matters how many log books you have. Just transfer the total times from the old book into the new one and then continue with that. Keep the old book just in case they want to see the stamps.
Hope this help?
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Yeah, this is what i came to the conclusion. One for FAA one for JAA, and have the total hours from the foreign in the first page total of each of them.
Keep using the FAA logbook, and JAA logbook.
Log the hours in FAA logbook until i get the FAA licence, after dont need to log any more hours in it, and just keep using the JAA log that have been using since the total of foreign hours.
Also, its good to separate things:
My friend told me that in FAA they log the time with intructor training for IR rating has PIC.
I cant have this in a JAR logbook, they will laugh of me.
And there is also all that safety pilot issue.
Thank you
Keep using the FAA logbook, and JAA logbook.
Log the hours in FAA logbook until i get the FAA licence, after dont need to log any more hours in it, and just keep using the JAA log that have been using since the total of foreign hours.
Also, its good to separate things:
My friend told me that in FAA they log the time with intructor training for IR rating has PIC.
I cant have this in a JAR logbook, they will laugh of me.
And there is also all that safety pilot issue.
Thank you
Yeah, this is what i came to the conclusion. One for FAA one for JAA, and have the total hours from the foreign in the first page total of each of them.
Keep using the FAA logbook, and JAA logbook.
Log the hours in FAA logbook until i get the FAA licence, after dont need to log any more hours in it, and just keep using the JAA log that have been using since the total of foreign hours.
Also, its good to separate things:
My friend told me that in FAA they log the time with intructor training for IR rating has PIC.
I cant have this in a JAR logbook, they will laugh of me.
And there is also all that safety pilot issue.
Thank you
Keep using the FAA logbook, and JAA logbook.
Log the hours in FAA logbook until i get the FAA licence, after dont need to log any more hours in it, and just keep using the JAA log that have been using since the total of foreign hours.
Also, its good to separate things:
My friend told me that in FAA they log the time with intructor training for IR rating has PIC.
I cant have this in a JAR logbook, they will laugh of me.
And there is also all that safety pilot issue.
Thank you
I've been using the same pre-JAA commercial logbook for CAA / JAA / FAA for 20ish years, and nobody's ever laughed at me for anything. Columns can be adapted a bit for any special requirements, which I do and many other people do - so if there's something that only FAA want, for example, simply use a spare column and label it appropriately.
G