Logbook and Logging Hours Questions
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Logging Microlight Time
I have a CPL with SEP and while I'm based back at home job hunting, I'd like to do some flying just to keep my skills ticking over. Unfortunately my local airfield doesn't have a flying club, but a private owner has offered me the use of his microlight.
The question I have is can I log this time as SEP PIC time in my aeroplane logbook?
The aircraft in question is an Aviasud Mistral (Photos: Aviasud Mistral Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net), which to me is more like what I would call an aeroplane, rather than a microlight. Having looked up the definition of a what a microlight actually is on the CAA website, I got this:
A microlight aeroplane is one designed to carry not more than two persons which has a Maximum Total Weight Authorised (MTWA) not exceeding:
The question I have is can I log this time as SEP PIC time in my aeroplane logbook?
The aircraft in question is an Aviasud Mistral (Photos: Aviasud Mistral Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net), which to me is more like what I would call an aeroplane, rather than a microlight. Having looked up the definition of a what a microlight actually is on the CAA website, I got this:
A microlight aeroplane is one designed to carry not more than two persons which has a Maximum Total Weight Authorised (MTWA) not exceeding:
- 300 kg for a single seat landplane.
- 390 kg for a single seat landplane for which a UK Permit to Fly or Certificate of Airworthiness was in force prior to 1 January 2003
- 450 kg for a two seat landplane
- 330 kg for a single seat amphibian or floatplane
- 495 kg for a two seat amphibian or floatplane
I like the Mistral, although you might want to keep an eye on the slightly exciting stalling characteristics and very low Vne.
You need differences training with a microlight instructor to fly it, which is easy enough. After that you fly it on your SEP rating but the hours don't count for currency or upgrading, so you'd be best logging the P1 hours in a spare column.
G
You need differences training with a microlight instructor to fly it, which is easy enough. After that you fly it on your SEP rating but the hours don't count for currency or upgrading, so you'd be best logging the P1 hours in a spare column.
G
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I briefly read about a Mistral crash involving a suspected stall and possible spin a few years ago, but I didn't actually pick up on what the "slightly exciting stalling characteristics" are. I also noticed the very low Vne, only 5 knots faster than Vno according to what it says on Wikipedia and slower than the normal cruise speed of the PA28s I learned to fly in!
With regards to the logbook query, would you be able to direct me to the official documentation on this issue? I trawled through various CAA publications, to no avail.
With regards to the logbook query, would you be able to direct me to the official documentation on this issue? I trawled through various CAA publications, to no avail.
I was heavily involved in the aftermath of that accident, and in my opinion there was nothing "suspected" or "possible" about the stall and spin in that accident.
The aircraft was flying low and slow, with the doors off, which worsened the stall characteristics. The stall warner was also of a poor and disfunctional design which in my opinion should never have been approved on the aircraft.
Subsequently we removed the permission to fly with the doors off, and mandated a completely different stall warner which gave good, and very loud, stall warning.
There is still a risk that the aircraft will try to spin off a stall, particularly if you trickle in very slowly - say half a knot per second. However, if you smartly centralise the controls and reduce power, when we flight tested it, the aircraft returned to level flight after no more than a quarter turn and with no more than around 100ft ofheight loss. So, nothing (now) that should trouble a halfway experienced pilot who has taken the trouble to get to know the aeroplane.
Apart from that, the Mistral is fairly slippery on approach and descent, so speed control needs a little more care than some aeroplanes. That and it's an oldish engine the Rotax 532, which needs treating reasonably gently (and a pilot whose PFLs are current!).
Apart from that, if you look at the recency requirements for a JAR- PPL(A) or CPL(A) in LASORS (Section F page 10 in my 2008 copy) it says that your 12 hours in the second of 2 years must be in "SEP or TMG" - CAA doesn't recognise microlights as SEP for this purpose. This is an absurd interpretation, but it's how it is.
G
The aircraft was flying low and slow, with the doors off, which worsened the stall characteristics. The stall warner was also of a poor and disfunctional design which in my opinion should never have been approved on the aircraft.
Subsequently we removed the permission to fly with the doors off, and mandated a completely different stall warner which gave good, and very loud, stall warning.
There is still a risk that the aircraft will try to spin off a stall, particularly if you trickle in very slowly - say half a knot per second. However, if you smartly centralise the controls and reduce power, when we flight tested it, the aircraft returned to level flight after no more than a quarter turn and with no more than around 100ft ofheight loss. So, nothing (now) that should trouble a halfway experienced pilot who has taken the trouble to get to know the aeroplane.
Apart from that, the Mistral is fairly slippery on approach and descent, so speed control needs a little more care than some aeroplanes. That and it's an oldish engine the Rotax 532, which needs treating reasonably gently (and a pilot whose PFLs are current!).
Apart from that, if you look at the recency requirements for a JAR- PPL(A) or CPL(A) in LASORS (Section F page 10 in my 2008 copy) it says that your 12 hours in the second of 2 years must be in "SEP or TMG" - CAA doesn't recognise microlights as SEP for this purpose. This is an absurd interpretation, but it's how it is.
G
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Thanks Genghis. I've read through the relevant sections of LASORS, but I still haven't found an official definition of SEP or anything that says that a microlight is not considered an SEP for licensing requirements. Can anybody point me in the right direction please?
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Hi everyone. Quick question on FAA logbooks and requirements. I'm currently doing some flying in Brazil (instruction-flight) in a Brazilian-registered aircraft to validate my FAA-issued PPL so I can fly in Brazil on Brazilian-registered aircraft. (This part I'm all set on the procedures and stuff).
My question is: For the time during instruction and after I am flying solo in Brazil, should I log this time into my FAA logbook as well, considering it's a non-US registered aircraft?
Many thanks!
My question is: For the time during instruction and after I am flying solo in Brazil, should I log this time into my FAA logbook as well, considering it's a non-US registered aircraft?
Many thanks!
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Block vs. engine time
Hi!
I'm having a real hard time deciding how I should log my time during hour building...
In FTO where I completed my JAA PPL(A) course, logging of time was quite simple: engine startup = block off, engine shutdown = block on. Therefor, the entries in my personal logbook match with those written in aircraft's logbook and the times, logged by ATS units fit exactly...
Problem being, I switched to different FTO for hour building, where time logging works quite a bit differently... Since the FTO charges hours by tachometer timer, it isn't unusual to have block time of 2 hours and time in the aircraft logbook being 1:40 or something similar...
The real question being: should I log block time (as stated in JAR-FCL-1.080) and let it be a little awkard, since should anyone ever compare my logbook with aircraft's and find that the engine was "shut down" sooner than I arrived on the blocks or simply log the same time that is put in the aircraft logbook and be "on the safe side"?
Thanks for all the answers in advance!
I'm having a real hard time deciding how I should log my time during hour building...
In FTO where I completed my JAA PPL(A) course, logging of time was quite simple: engine startup = block off, engine shutdown = block on. Therefor, the entries in my personal logbook match with those written in aircraft's logbook and the times, logged by ATS units fit exactly...
Problem being, I switched to different FTO for hour building, where time logging works quite a bit differently... Since the FTO charges hours by tachometer timer, it isn't unusual to have block time of 2 hours and time in the aircraft logbook being 1:40 or something similar...
The real question being: should I log block time (as stated in JAR-FCL-1.080) and let it be a little awkard, since should anyone ever compare my logbook with aircraft's and find that the engine was "shut down" sooner than I arrived on the blocks or simply log the same time that is put in the aircraft logbook and be "on the safe side"?
Thanks for all the answers in advance!
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You really are worrying over nothing.
Flight crew time is counted as Blocks Off to Blocks On, ie. the time the aircraft starts moving to the time it stops moving.
Aircraft technical time, i.e. Airframe, Engine and Propellor time is counted as Airborne time, ie, the time the wheels leave the ground to the time they land back on the ground.
Charging times vary from FTO to FTO, some charge Time Off Blocks, some charge Airborne Time + 0.2 hours, some charge Hobbs Time (Engine running time), there is nothing set in concrete.
In any case, half of the times recorded are estimates rounded up or down to the nearest 5 minutes so you will often have discrepancies between pilots, FTOs and ATC.
And it doesn't matter whether you record times in Hours and Minutes or as decimal Hours, e.g. 1 Hour 30 minutes or 1.5 Hours. It is up to you, it is YOUR PERSONAL Flying Log Book.
One thing I can virtually assure you of is that no-one is going to start checking FTO Tech Logs to verify your claimed hours against the technical hours of the aircraft.
I suggest you just record in your Log Book your Time Off Blocks as recorded at the time of flight from your or your instructor's watch and just agree between the two of you what to record. As an instructor I usualy tell the student what to record - if it's a solo flight he tells me what he's flown. Mutual trust.
Hope this helps.
Flight crew time is counted as Blocks Off to Blocks On, ie. the time the aircraft starts moving to the time it stops moving.
Aircraft technical time, i.e. Airframe, Engine and Propellor time is counted as Airborne time, ie, the time the wheels leave the ground to the time they land back on the ground.
Charging times vary from FTO to FTO, some charge Time Off Blocks, some charge Airborne Time + 0.2 hours, some charge Hobbs Time (Engine running time), there is nothing set in concrete.
In any case, half of the times recorded are estimates rounded up or down to the nearest 5 minutes so you will often have discrepancies between pilots, FTOs and ATC.
And it doesn't matter whether you record times in Hours and Minutes or as decimal Hours, e.g. 1 Hour 30 minutes or 1.5 Hours. It is up to you, it is YOUR PERSONAL Flying Log Book.
One thing I can virtually assure you of is that no-one is going to start checking FTO Tech Logs to verify your claimed hours against the technical hours of the aircraft.
I suggest you just record in your Log Book your Time Off Blocks as recorded at the time of flight from your or your instructor's watch and just agree between the two of you what to record. As an instructor I usualy tell the student what to record - if it's a solo flight he tells me what he's flown. Mutual trust.
Hope this helps.
