Logbook and Logging Hours Questions
Join Date: Oct 2005
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No B, i think you will find it IS a case of the pilot being found out, because you WILL always find somebody .......... who doesn't care, and falsifying records/logs/medicals/licenses is just a way to carry on doing what they want to do.
Maybe they regulatory bodies should check all hours flown, and all licenses/ratings issued, this way you wouldn't get people being able to get away with these sort of things.
And i certainly didn't imply that i think its justified by the temptation to get a job in a challanging area!
Maybe they regulatory bodies should check all hours flown, and all licenses/ratings issued, this way you wouldn't get people being able to get away with these sort of things.
And i certainly didn't imply that i think its justified by the temptation to get a job in a challanging area!
Join Date: Mar 2001
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I agree with the majority of comments made here today. I even took the step of calling my friend who is actually from Denmark, but undergoing the CAA ATPL course. I asked him to go online and take a look at the thread I started. His response to me was, he knew of several FAA pilots at the airfield that had done similar. To be honest I don't even know how many hours he's logged that are inaccurate.
When I said he was a good pilot for sure, the only thing I can base that statement on was the evening I went flying with him which was great. At the early stages of ATPL goundschool myself I realise the large costs that pave the road to the left hand seat, but all the same I would hate to see somebodys futue career go down the drain just to save a few pound. HOPEFULLY HE WILL RECONSIDER!!!
I think it is a testoment to the professional pilots and wannabees out there that this thead has evocked such a positave response to aviation safety matters.
When I said he was a good pilot for sure, the only thing I can base that statement on was the evening I went flying with him which was great. At the early stages of ATPL goundschool myself I realise the large costs that pave the road to the left hand seat, but all the same I would hate to see somebodys futue career go down the drain just to save a few pound. HOPEFULLY HE WILL RECONSIDER!!!
I think it is a testoment to the professional pilots and wannabees out there that this thead has evocked such a positave response to aviation safety matters.
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Well, "Genius", thanks to the "testoments" you've been making on this thread, by now the CAA should be able to figure out who your friend is when he sends in his licence:
1) A danish name in all likelihood
2) Doing a course at an FTO approved by the CAA in the USA
3) Renting planes from another - possibly American - FTO in California for the post-PPL hourbuilding phase.
As BillieBob pointed out, this is probably exactly what you want.
Once again, there's no reason whatsoever - cost included - to go down the route of making up flights that never took place, but there is every reason not to do it.
If your idiot friend has any sense at all, he'll scrap his loogbook and start a new one, which contains only flights that actually took place.
KK.
1) A danish name in all likelihood
2) Doing a course at an FTO approved by the CAA in the USA
3) Renting planes from another - possibly American - FTO in California for the post-PPL hourbuilding phase.
As BillieBob pointed out, this is probably exactly what you want.
Once again, there's no reason whatsoever - cost included - to go down the route of making up flights that never took place, but there is every reason not to do it.
If your idiot friend has any sense at all, he'll scrap his loogbook and start a new one, which contains only flights that actually took place.
KK.
Join Date: Jan 2003
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Logbook falsification is far more common than you might think. I read an NTSB report a little while back about a King Air crash in 2002 that killed a US senator. The captains has supposedly lost a logbook. His new logbook opened up with several thousand hours more than the previous logbook finished with. During this period he did not have an aviation job and his hours indicated in medicals were much lower than those in the logbook.
I also know one pilot I worked with in the USA who must have falsified up to 300hrs of flight time to take him up to the 1000hrs needed to get a turboprop job. There are other stories as well. I hope that the Danish fella gets caught and crucified. I suspect though, that he'll get away with it and carry on penciling in whatever it takes to get a job.
I also know one pilot I worked with in the USA who must have falsified up to 300hrs of flight time to take him up to the 1000hrs needed to get a turboprop job. There are other stories as well. I hope that the Danish fella gets caught and crucified. I suspect though, that he'll get away with it and carry on penciling in whatever it takes to get a job.
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Is there a club one can join?
We had a local hero flying the mighty Cessna Citation V when the contractee came up with a requirement for PICs to have X number of hours. It was pretty well known that yer man only had X minus about 200 hours, since the airplane hardly flew.
The strangest thing then occurred; he had a break-in, when the only things stolen were his logbooks. Some drug addict probably took them to sell them, as one does. Not to worry, though, he was able to reconstruct from memory his flight times, including X nuimber of hours on the Citation V.
I reckon people who take shortcuts get theirs, sooner or later. At least they know we know and we know they know we know and ... Who needs to live like that? Not me!
The strangest thing then occurred; he had a break-in, when the only things stolen were his logbooks. Some drug addict probably took them to sell them, as one does. Not to worry, though, he was able to reconstruct from memory his flight times, including X nuimber of hours on the Citation V.
I reckon people who take shortcuts get theirs, sooner or later. At least they know we know and we know they know we know and ... Who needs to live like that? Not me!
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Logging hours not flown
As a corporate piiot, I see evidence of P51 time all the time, and while those pilots are out there, the real bastards are the people that hire them.
Not hard to tell honest flight time from bogus.
Remember:
Someone who logs say 200 hours of flight time is ripping you off one year of your flying experience.
They got the job you didn't.
They are misrepresenting thier experience and could kill someone
They are driving up the insurance rates
They are making pilots look dishonest.
Not hard to tell honest flight time from bogus.
Remember:
Someone who logs say 200 hours of flight time is ripping you off one year of your flying experience.
They got the job you didn't.
They are misrepresenting thier experience and could kill someone
They are driving up the insurance rates
They are making pilots look dishonest.
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Think there was an incident a few years ago of a pilot in the south coast of England a pilot on a trip, didn't check the fuel level in his tanks, ran out of fuel very quickly and put it down in a field.
The CAA threw the book at him for running out of fuel, the subsequent investigation revealed a huge falsification of hours in his logbook. He ended up in court and was found guilty.
I remeber the defence lawyer speaking of his client that he wanted to be a commercial pilot and falsifed his details to reduce the time it took him.
Just shows, you cut corners in logging hours, you cut corners in your walk round, it'll catch up on you eventually.
When I was in the states flying with an instructor, the instructor said to me that I could log the hours as solo, my concience would not let me and I logged them as duel.
747
I realy think you were being very naive in your posting, PPRUNE stands for PROFESSIONAL Pilots rumour network!!! What did you expect in reply from professionals? Did you expect replies to say it was absolutely fine and tell him to go ahead and send his logbook in? Frankly I am quite astonished by this post.
The CAA threw the book at him for running out of fuel, the subsequent investigation revealed a huge falsification of hours in his logbook. He ended up in court and was found guilty.
I remeber the defence lawyer speaking of his client that he wanted to be a commercial pilot and falsifed his details to reduce the time it took him.
Just shows, you cut corners in logging hours, you cut corners in your walk round, it'll catch up on you eventually.
When I was in the states flying with an instructor, the instructor said to me that I could log the hours as solo, my concience would not let me and I logged them as duel.
747
I realy think you were being very naive in your posting, PPRUNE stands for PROFESSIONAL Pilots rumour network!!! What did you expect in reply from professionals? Did you expect replies to say it was absolutely fine and tell him to go ahead and send his logbook in? Frankly I am quite astonished by this post.
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Audit
I presume when you mean he is following a CAA ATPL Course that this person will be applying for Licence issue in the UK?
If this is the case I hope someone from the CAA/Flight Crew Licencing department reads this thread and audits all the infromation supplied by any Danish pilot for Licence or rating issue to catch this pathetic cheat.
If this is the case I hope someone from the CAA/Flight Crew Licencing department reads this thread and audits all the infromation supplied by any Danish pilot for Licence or rating issue to catch this pathetic cheat.
Join Date: Sep 2005
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what will happend in the future when technology has gone even further and all the flights of the past has been stored in databases and all the aircrafts' logs aswell, a click of a button will tell if there are any inconsistensies so maybe you'll get away with it in the short run but in the long run you might run out of luck 
funny, when i was in the states i had an instructor tell me the same thing... and i logged it as dual also.
his logic was, he never touched the controls.
my logic was, it was a type conversion to an aircraft id never flown before, and he talked me through a lot of the flight.
his logic was, he never touched the controls.
my logic was, it was a type conversion to an aircraft id never flown before, and he talked me through a lot of the flight.
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There is nothing wrong with an instructor telling someone to log PIC when they are onboard. As long as the flight isn't going to be recorded for any offical reason.
When the local PPL's who where on the build for hours needed a school check ride I used to let them log PIC and didn't log anything myself. I know i could have demanded to log it but as most of the trip was spent by me looking for dolphins its only fair.
MJ
When the local PPL's who where on the build for hours needed a school check ride I used to let them log PIC and didn't log anything myself. I know i could have demanded to log it but as most of the trip was spent by me looking for dolphins its only fair.
MJ
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tutt tutt tutt.
Your buddy is attempting to obtain a precunary advantage by deception not just licence but insurence.. Criminal under the theft act.
You have grassed him up....lol
one would not have to be the best detective to find your boy.
But I would imagine that he'll get a way with it until it all goes wrong then,
He can pull his pants down and spread his cheeks cause he is gonna get rogered senseless and then,
He will go to prison and get some more
And he will deserve every single inch
Your buddy is attempting to obtain a precunary advantage by deception not just licence but insurence.. Criminal under the theft act.
You have grassed him up....lol
one would not have to be the best detective to find your boy.But I would imagine that he'll get a way with it until it all goes wrong then,
He can pull his pants down and spread his cheeks cause he is gonna get rogered senseless and then,
He will go to prison and get some more
And he will deserve every single inch
Unfortunately the chances of being caught are extremely slim, unless you get involved in an accident there is rarely any reason to doubt your logbook.
It is still an honour system and in that regard somewhat out dated.
It is still an honour system and in that regard somewhat out dated.
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I agree with B2N2 that the chances of being caught are slim. One of the guys I know who did it is in line for captaincy of a 25 ton turboprop. I don't think he will meet the ATPL minimums by the time he upgades.
However if Genius747 happens to be a friend of yours and you decide to tell him; well I guess your chances of being caught increase somewhat!
However if Genius747 happens to be a friend of yours and you decide to tell him; well I guess your chances of being caught increase somewhat!
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Do PICUS hours count?
I have made a search for the answer, but to no avail. Nor can I find the answer in LASORS. I have written to the CAA for the answer, but as always it will take weeks to get a reply. So here goes.
Do PICUS hours gained on flight tests count towards the 100hr PIC requirement for CPL issue? Anyone who knows the answer - help!
Do PICUS hours gained on flight tests count towards the 100hr PIC requirement for CPL issue? Anyone who knows the answer - help!
Re: Do PICUS hours count?
as far as I can recall they only count if the log book entry is countersigned by the examiner and if the hours were gained following the successful outcome of a skills test.
I had hours deducted from my 100 hours because I had logged P1/S for club check outs.
I had hours deducted from my 100 hours because I had logged P1/S for club check outs.